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CyberGhostface
07-18-2008, 07:19 PM
This is a bit image-heavy, and one might argue a bit off-topic. But I've mentioned this a number of times, so I thought you might want to see what I mean.

As you may or may not know, Peter David's had a long career before working on Dark Tower. He's done several runs for several titles. He is in many ways the definitive Hulk writer, but he's also a great Spider-Man writer.

All of these are from his Spider-Man work, so if you have no interest in it, you might as well skip it.

In case you are wondering if this is legal, these are only excerpts and not the whole thing.

First up is "Leah".

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img035.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img036.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img037.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img038.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img039.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/img040.jpg


Those who've seen the Spider-Man films probably know who J. Jonah Jameson is. This was David's take on it.
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-17.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-18.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-19.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-20.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-21.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc243/CyberGhostfaceScans/Comics/WebOfSpiderman013-22.jpg

Now again, I still have to say that I've enjoyed "Long Road Home" much better than "Gunslinger Born". Still, these two Spider-Man stories are probably a blip on Peter David's career (although the first one was dedicated to one of David's friends who passed away, so maybe its more than that) whereas his Dark Tower work is probably his biggest project in a long time. But I'm glad that David's writing DT, just as I am that Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa is doing The Stand, as both are underrated writers who don't nearly get the credit they deserve.

Still, in David's defense, he was largely adapting another writer's work and when he finally got to do his own stuff (albeit being guided) I think he had more free reign as a writer.

But in the end, I posted these two stories as a representative of the work that probably helped David get the job he got and how good he can really be.

inertia1215
07-19-2008, 10:02 AM
Thanks a lot!! Those were great!!

Peter David is very very talented, and yes very underrated. Didn't know a lot about his background so thanks for the info!!

jayson
07-19-2008, 11:48 AM
Thanks Cyber. I appreciate the background info on David. I know nothing about comics outside of DT so this was interesting for me.

Brainslinger
07-19-2008, 12:21 PM
Great extracts Cyber.

The first story reminded me of another tale (I'm not sure of the author), where Spider-man visits a kid, only to find out at the end the kid was in hospital suffering from terminal cancer.

mia/susannah
07-19-2008, 01:40 PM
Cyber, those storeis are very good. I don't have any comics as of yet. I would like to get the dark tower comics and the stand but no way I can do that any time soon

turtlex
07-11-2009, 02:20 AM
Citizens of the Comic Tower - Feel free to use this thread for discussions on Robin Furth and Peter David ( writers for the Dark Tower Series of comics ).

Peter David (http://www.peterdavid.net/) is somewhat of a legend in comic writing.

Robin Furth speaks about her relationship to Sai King here (http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.975.Robin_Furth_Q&A).

Comments / Questions / Concerns ?!?

pathoftheturtle
07-11-2009, 06:53 AM
I used to like Peter David a lot. He's just not the same guy anymore. Are we going to discuss his novels here, or should we also have one or more threads in "Dutch Hill"?
David did some great (and popular) Star Trek stuff, and he's done a lot of work adapting other franchise properties/fantasy films to print. I think that that was why he got tapped to script the DT books, but I'm not so sure that he was really the best choice.

As for Robin Furth, well, what can I say? She's not really much outside of the box.

turtlex
07-11-2009, 08:41 AM
This should be used to discuss comic works, but if you want to make mention and reference to Peter David's other writing - of course, you should.

It bares mentioning that Peter David does write novels, as not all comic writers do or can.

Peter David is a legend over at Marvel. He's written a lot of the top titles.

CyberGhostface
07-11-2009, 11:20 AM
I don't care for either of them at the moment, as people or as writers.

With Furth, she's just not a good writer and I don't know why she was picked for being the main writer. Her Concordances show that she would be good for an a consultant in terms of keeping track of details and characters, but as a good storyteller? No. And she just comes off as pretty full of herself for someone whose career is completely dependent on another writer. Someone like Bev Vincent, who's both a DT expert and has written a lot of his own fiction (over fifty stories!) would be better.

As for Peter David...I used to like him, but his DT work has been fairly meh. Its like he's trying too hard. He's better than Furth by far, but it doesn't read like Dark Tower--more like some generic fantasy featuring the DT characters. And his hick narrator pisses me off.

And I (indirectly) had a bad experience with him recently that really soured my opinion of him. (Here's where I go a bit off-topic...) I was part of a livejournal community called scans_daily where people would post selected scans (never the whole issue--just excerpts) from comics and discuss them. We also had a policy where we'd remove stuff if the creator didn't want us to post it. The point of the community was to get people interested in reading new stuff. For example, I know that I got a few people who wouldn't have looked at them otherwise hooked on The Walking Dead and Locke & Key. Professional comic writers, like Warren Ellis and Gail Simone, would frequently pop in to discuss stuff with us.

So Peter David saw this and threw a bitch-fit and got the community deleted. What's funny in retrospect was that he thought we were responsible for comicbook piracy and that he was putting a stop to it! When there are hundreds of torrent sites posting the full issues of comics for free, he's going after a small community of people posting on average a third at most of the issue in an attempt to get people to buy it when they wouldn't have otherwise!

And in case anyone wants to know, "Why are you still getting the comics if you don't like them?" I'm not. As of yesterday, I've dropped the Dark Tower comics from my pull list at my shop. I wanted to stick through until the end as its almost over, but the quality of the comics and general money issues have made me stop. As of now, the only comics I'm getting are Ultimate Spider-Man, The Walking Dead and Locke & Key. I might flip through them at the shop and get the trades from my library just to keep up on the discussions here but overall I've washed my hands of them.

Brainslinger
07-11-2009, 02:42 PM
in case anyone wants to know, "Why are you still getting the comics if you don't like them?" I'm not. As of yesterday, I've dropped the Dark Tower comics from my pull list at my shop. I wanted to stick through until the end as its almost over, but the quality of the comics and general money issues have made me stop.

That's a shame... but fair enough if you don't like it.

The issues have been a bit up and down for me but overall I've liked them. I really like the latest arc.

As for the writers, my only experience of there work is the comics - as far as I know, it's quite possible I've read Peter David's work elsewhere and just didn't realise - and of course Furth's concordances.

To be honest I'd have preferred it to all have been written by King, but it would be unfair to expect that considering it's a) new stuff and b) they're writers who should be allowed to be creative in their own right. Unfortunately, this leaves them in a awkward position since us readers of the novels already have mental images of how certain things would be... then when these writers come up with something else it feels like a contradiction. Actually, most of the time it's just a matter of interpretation*, and we shouldn't really blame them from that since we all have our own ideas anyway. When they contradict stuff that King has definitely established already then I think it's fair enough to take issue. They have done that once or twice I think.

I think David's narrator does go a bit overboard sometimes too. Overall it's not much of an issue for me though.

*Unfortunately it could be argued that Jonas's back story fits in this category. It feels wrong to me to suggest a piece of magic glass was responsible for the twisting of his character. On the other hand there is little in the novels that really contradicts this either. It's a poor device in my opinion - let him be completely responsible for his own actions - but not neccessarily a contradictory one.

The only proof that I could put forward for it not happening (and maybe this should be in another thread, but I've started now, ha ha) is the character of Jonas himself compared to the effect the mirror usually has on people. Namely, it makes people see bad things as good and vice-versa. I don't think Jonas see's everything that way. His evil is much more subtle than that. He doesn't see all good things as bad and bad things as good. He just doesn't care and is out for number one. Of course a counter-argument could be that the splinter, just being a little thing, has just a small effect. So again it comes down to opinion.... My own opinion is that it's just a story that grew in the telling.

CyberGhostface
07-11-2009, 05:11 PM
It wasn't an easy decision for me to make as I was planning on sticking through with it until the end even if I didn't like them. At the same time, my shop is stocked with back issues, so if the situation improves I can just grab them. We'll see, I guess.

sleeplessdwarf
07-11-2009, 05:45 PM
It is funny how some celebs(if they are) can act at times. I come from a city that has given us Roy Jones jr.(great guy to anyone he meets) and Emmit Smith(actually charges children for his autograph)

Only Dt comic I have atm is Gunslinger Born, so I can't make a comment on the two writers here.

Ruthful
07-11-2009, 06:57 PM
The comics have been a real mixed bag, IMO. The most enjoyable part-from my perspective, at least-has been the extra touch added to flesh out stories that weren't included in the novels, e.g. Cort's classes, the stuff about Maerlyn, etc... The actual body of the comics aren't as impressive, although there have been a few highlights.

One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.

turtlex
07-12-2009, 08:18 AM
One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.

Yes, but is that Furth, or Peter David doing that?!? :orely:

Honestly, some of the writing is flat but I'm always engaged enough that I'm enjoying it.

And... I've read some horrible comic writers where I wondered if they even knew how to tell a story. There's a reason there are people like Peter David working on so many titles - he does it well ( IMHO ).

pathoftheturtle
07-12-2009, 09:17 AM
One major problem I have with Furth is her tendency to (1.)turn some of the colloquialisms of high speech into a bad parody of a Western set in mid-nineteenth century America. She also (2.)embroiders upon some peripheral references in King's works, which would have been better left on the cutting room floor.

Yes, but is that Furth, or Peter David doing that?!? :orely:
1. Peter David
2. Robin Furth
This should be used to discuss comic works, but if you want to make mention and reference to Peter David's other writing - of course, you should. :unsure: It's just that, having read his work for many years now, I think that comparing his early books to later ones gives a lot of insight on Peter David.
It bares mentioning that Peter David does write novels, as not all comic writers do or can.It also bears mentioning that not everyone who does write novels really can or should.
Peter David is a legend over at Marvel. He's written a lot of the top titles.He's not exactly an unknown over at D.C. either.
...Jonas's back story fits in this category. It feels wrong to me to suggest a piece of magic glass was responsible for the twisting of his character. ...maybe this should be in another thread...I would suggest What's going on with Maerlyn? (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=8277)
Your argument is interesting, but I'd rather not turn another thread into that same debate.
Only Dt comic I have atm is Gunslinger Born, so I can't make a comment on the two writers here.Same writers, all along. What did you think of the way they wrote tGB?

cyberghostface: Pulling in a comment of yours from another thread, to go with your current train--
...it'll probably be something both condescending and self-serving. Like when Peter David pretty much said he didn't give two shits what the fans thought because King approved what he wrote. ...You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.

CyberGhostface
07-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Same writers, all along. What did you think of the way they wrote tGB?

Personally (I know your question was directed to someone else), I thought the initial arc was by the weakest in terms of both writing and adapting King's novel. For example, the only time I ever really liked Susan was when she stood up to Cordelia. And here Cordelia's little more than an afterthought. Or Rhea--she's King's most despicable villain in the novel, and in the comics she amounts to little more than a cameo here and there. And the list goes on. Obviously I'm not expecting an exact translation, but if they had done better job with pacing, removed some of the pointless added scenes with Walter and maybe cut down the number of excessive flash pages, they could have fit in some stuff that was actually important to the story.


You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.

I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.

Brainslinger
07-12-2009, 12:41 PM
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.

I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.

I think it was in one of the back sections of one of the individual comics too.

pixiedark76
07-13-2009, 10:29 AM
I think that Peter David and Robin Furth are doing an excellent job so far. Especially Robin Furth. I think that she is a great writer because she is one of the most knowledgeable people on the Dark Tower. I like the different twists and spins she puts on the comics. I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person. Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend.

I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:

Brainslinger
07-13-2009, 01:56 PM
I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person.

It was supposedly a splinter from Maerlyn's magic mirror not the grapefruit. Whole different magic item.

As for the changes Furth made to the grapefruit in the Sorceror, I actually didn't mind that too much although having Rhea more involved would have been nice. Of course we don't know that she wasn't involved... the grapefruit doesn't directly lie according to the books. It's just stuff we didn't know.

As for the The Gunslinger Born, I actually rather liked the new stuff they brought to it. It was mostly true to the original while showing us stuff going on elsewhere in the enemy's camp.

CyberGhostface
07-13-2009, 02:48 PM
I think that she is a great writer because she is one of the most knowledgeable people on the Dark Tower.

Being knowledgeable about the Dark Tower (which Furth definitely is) does not necessarily translate to being a good writer. Maybe that's what Marvel thought when they chose her, but its two different things.


I think that it is brilliant that Robin Furth used part of the Wizards Rainbow to turn Jonas into an evil person. Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend.

First off, Furth's "magic mirror" backstory was nothing original. See The Snow Queen (http://hca.gilead.org.il/snow_que.html) by Hans Christan Andersen:


"You must attend to the commencement of this story, for when we get to the end we shall know more than we do now about a very wicked hobgoblin; he was one of the very worst, for he was a real demon. One day, when he was in a merry mood, he made a looking-glass which had the power of making everything good or beautiful that was reflected in it almost shrink to nothing, while everything that was worthless and bad looked increased in size and worse than ever. The most lovely landscapes appeared like boiled spinach, and the people became hideous, and looked as if they stood on their heads and had no bodies. Their countenances were so distorted that no one could recognize them, and even one freckle on the face appeared to spread over the whole of the nose and mouth. The demon said this was very amusing. When a good or pious thought passed through the mind of any one it was misrepresented in the glass; and then how the demon laughed at his cunning invention. All who went to the demon’s school—for he kept a school—talked everywhere of the wonders they had seen, and declared that people could now, for the first time, see what the world and mankind were really like. They carried the glass about everywhere, till at last there was not a land nor a people who had not been looked at through this distorted mirror. They wanted even to fly with it up to heaven to see the angels, but the higher they flew the more slippery the glass became, and they could scarcely hold it, till at last it slipped from their hands, fell to the earth, and was broken into millions of pieces. But now the looking-glass caused more unhappiness than ever, for some of the fragments were not so large as a grain of sand, and they flew about the world into every country. When one of these tiny atoms flew into a person’s eye, it stuck there unknown to him, and from that moment he saw everything through a distorted medium, or could see only the worst side of what he looked at, for even the smallest fragment retained the same power which had belonged to the whole mirror. Some few persons even got a fragment of the looking-glass in their hearts, and this was very terrible, for their hearts became cold like a lump of ice. A few of the pieces were so large that they could be used as window-panes; it would have been a sad thing to look at our friends through them. Other pieces were made into spectacles; this was dreadful for those who wore them, for they could see nothing either rightly or justly. At all this the wicked demon laughed till his sides shook—it tickled him so to see the mischief he had done. There were still a number of these little fragments of glass floating about in the air, and now you shall hear what happened with one of them."

Sounds familar, doesn't it? Just take out the demon and add Maerlyn, take out God and add in Gan, and viola! Instant Dark Tower backstory!

Second...Jonas's backstory was horrible. He is a human villain, not a supernatural one. Adding supernatural causes to his human evil makes him that much less interesting. The initial idea, that he hates Gunslingers because he failed on his test and was thus sent west a failure, worked just fine. It was interesting, a dark parallel to Roland if you will. Making him evil because he stuck his foot on an EEEVILLL mirror takes that all away.

And if anything, King did a MUCH better making the Rainbow frightening in Wizard and Glass with how it twisted Rhea, how it was addictive and only showed horribile things. Ten times more effective than anything Furth did.


I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:

People's problems with the comics aren't what you think they are. I don't think ANYONE had a problem with it adapting W&G or expanding on new material--it was how it was executed.

MonteGss
07-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Jonas's backstory was horrible. He is a human villain, not a supernatural one. Adding supernatural causes to his human evil makes him that much less interesting. The initial idea, that he hates Gunslingers because he failed on his test and was thus sent west a failure, worked just fine. It was interesting, a dark parallel to Roland if you will. Making him evil because he stuck his foot on an EEEVILLL mirror takes that all away.

And if anything, King did a MUCH better making the Rainbow frightening in Wizard and Glass with how it twisted Rhea, how it was addictive and only showed horribile things. Ten times more effective than anything Furth did.


I agree 100% The mirror bullshit really ticked me off.


On a side note...
IMO, the first two arcs were very nice and I could even accept the minor changes from established canon that may have happened. This last arc...in addition to the horrible drawings (Jae, come back), the story was pretty crappy.

CyberGhostface
07-13-2009, 07:51 PM
I really liked the second arc when I read it. Its the only arc thus far that I thought worked. I'm not crazy about the Crimson King on further retrospection, but overall, it was the closest to what I thought the Dark Tower comics should be.

pathoftheturtle
07-14-2009, 07:48 AM
You're referring to his afterward to The Long Road Home, right? I also felt that, at that moment at least, he sounded like a major prick.

I actually haven't read the trade for that yet...could you pull up the quote? He may have said it twice. I remember reading it in an interview.

I think it was in one of the back sections of one of the individual comics too.Yes, the final issue of the arc. I hadn't actually looked at it for a while, and now that I do, I guess that calling him a prick was maybe overstating things. Still, I do not like his attitude. He makes it sound as though Stephen King can do no wrong, and flatly states that if SK approves his work, "I absolutely do not care what anybody else thinks." What really bothers me is when he says that people criticize his dialog, but give examples that were drawn right from King's novels, and that this proves that fans are too hard to please. He's obviously ignoring the fact that putting a line into a different context will naturally alter the effect... which is no surprise, since the comics clearly show his insensitivity to that fact.
...Using the Wizards Rainbow on Jonas just makes the other parts of the Wizards Rainbow seem more important and they have more of an impact on the story. The Wizards Rainbow also seems more frightening; instead of just being some vague object that was just mentioned as a legend. ...:arg: Didn't you see my link? How come there's never a topic cop around when you need one? :P

*sigh* What you are saying is exactly what my problem is with it. Making the Rainbow and the wizard more important and more frightening (read: more powerful) means that they have more of an impact on the story, which imbalances the whole Dark Tower plot structure. This is not a good thing. <_<



I just don't get it when people complain about the way the comics are written. In the first Arc (Gunslinger Born) people were complaining that it was too much like Wizard and Glass and they felt cheated when they bought it. Then when the other Arcs of the comics came out people complained that it was nothing like the Dark Tower books. :pullhair: It seems that you just can't please anybody! :arg:

People's problems with the comics aren't what you think they are. I don't think ANYONE had a problem with it adapting W&G or expanding on new material--it was how it was executed.There's some truth to that, cyber, but it also is a fact that you cannot please everyone... if you ever start to think that NO ONE has a problem with any particular fact of any kind, think again; it's a big world, man.
The point though, pixie, is that your argument is fallacious. Editors and writers constantly have to set priorities, regardless of the fact that there will always be some group in dissent. Knowing this fact, it is still possible to rate their overall strategy.:orely:

turtlex
07-14-2009, 08:00 AM
Gotta just say here... If Stephen King approved of my writing, which was based on Stephen King's characters and works... I'd pretty much not care what anyone else thought either. I mean, hello?

CyberGhostface
07-14-2009, 11:25 AM
Gotta just say here... If Stephen King approved of my writing, which was based on Stephen King's characters and works... I'd pretty much not care what anyone else thought either. I mean, hello?

*coughs*Mick Garris*coughs*

turtlex
07-14-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm just sayin... from Peter David's point of view... I'd be thinking "Yeah, I'm doing okay..."

Sai Farson
07-14-2009, 02:52 PM
What happened to the guidebooks/almanacs that they were releasing at the end of every series? Is there not one for Fall of Gilead? I thought they were pretty entertaining at least . . . :thumbsup:

RUBE
07-14-2009, 03:11 PM
The Fall of Gilead is not over yet so maybe there will be another Almanac/Guidebook.

pathoftheturtle
07-15-2009, 07:19 AM
Probably so. :D If Marvel had simply done a whole series of those, kind of like expanding and fully illustrating the Concordance, (without trying to re-define it as intelligence files somehow gathered by Gilead:doh:) that might have been a better product.
Gotta just say here... If Stephen King approved of my writing, which was based on Stephen King's characters and works... I'd pretty much not care what anyone else thought either. I mean, hello?As I've said before, you can't take Stephen King too seriously. I think that he realizes this himself, sometimes. I know that he has often said that the audience is the most important thing.

You know what Peter David is good at? Comedy. At one time, it was clear that he realized how fortunate he is, and he made it easy to appreciate what, he said, "I laughingly refer to as my career." It's sad that he's gotten more uptight about this "literature" over time. He's now more of the type that DT7 calls "a Mork;" "a selfish introvert masquerading as a rugged individualist." You think that my complaints about this writer are groundless? Look closely at how much existential angst he wraps into fantasy pseudo-science... that is what is really apropos of nothing.

CyberGhostface
07-15-2009, 09:40 AM
What happened to the guidebooks/almanacs that they were releasing at the end of every series? Is there not one for Fall of Gilead? I thought they were pretty entertaining at least . . . :thumbsup:

They usually come out the same month as the final issue.

CyberGhostface
08-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Earlier on the appendixes at the back of the issues had backstories on Mid-World and its inhabitants. Now they seem to be gone and in their absence we get self-praising essays from Furth on where she pats her back and tells where she gets her 'ideas'.

Mind you, I wasn't too crazy about the stories, but at the very least they were something and I felt I was getting my money's worth. This is just fluff and not worth the extra cash.

Has Furth run out of ideas? If she's running low, she should just look at some obscure fairy tales for *ahem* inspiration like she's done in the past.

Matt
08-01-2009, 01:46 PM
From my recent experience, Robin is a really cool and creative person. I know your disappointed in the work but I am sure she is doing the absolute best she can.

I'm actually interested in a lot of that stuff and it all builds Dark Tower lore in one way or another. :clap:

turtlex
08-01-2009, 01:51 PM
I can't really agree with this assessment, CG.

I think those essays are exactly what we've been asking for... Don't you want to know where she is getting those ideas, how they come to be?

We've been quick to point out what we feel doesn't come from Sai King's original stories and ask where she's getting these plot points... now she's telling us. ( again, with King's approval )

I think the essays are her way of trying to impart some of where her creative thoughts are taking the stories.

I particularily found the latest essay ( on Aileen and the Female Gunslingers ) falling along these lines.

CyberGhostface
08-01-2009, 02:03 PM
I just think stuff like this would be better off for a trade. And I really haven't seen anything that she has said that she hasn't in numerous interviews. She's already talked a lot, for example, about Aileen's character and girls' roles in fiction in general elsewhere.

turtlex
08-01-2009, 03:49 PM
I understand your point, but not everyone reads the interviews... certainly not everyone who reads the comics.

I think by putting them in the individual issues, they serve as a history for years to come - whereas things on the web, well, they can get archived, etc.

I'm always interested in a writers thought process - especially about these characters, some of whom we know, and some we'd like to.

Honestly, I wish they'd reproduce the entire comic in the hardcovers. And I mean, maps, essays, character profiles, etc.

SigTauGimp
08-01-2009, 08:44 PM
Honestly, I wish they'd reproduce the entire comic in the hardcovers. And I mean, maps, essays, character profiles, etc.

I've wished the same thing, and wondered why they haven't done that myself.

Cloysterpete
08-02-2009, 09:01 AM
Honestly, I wish they'd reproduce the entire comic in the hardcovers. And I mean, maps, essays, character profiles, etc.

I've wished the same thing, and wondered why they haven't done that myself.

Because it's all going to get re-released in a big Dark Tower Omnibus volume further down the line thats why lol.

turtlex
08-02-2009, 10:35 AM
Honestly, I wish they'd reproduce the entire comic in the hardcovers. And I mean, maps, essays, character profiles, etc.

I've wished the same thing, and wondered why they haven't done that myself.





Honestly, I wish they'd reproduce the entire comic in the hardcovers. And I mean, maps, essays, character profiles, etc.

I've wished the same thing, and wondered why they haven't done that myself.

Because it's all going to get re-released in a big Dark Tower Omnibus volume further down the line thats why lol.

I'm never sure why Marvel does anything. :D

Honestly, I just figured it was an incentive to get people to buy the individual issues... as well as the hardcovers!

I would love to see an Omnibus, but :shrugs: who knows.

Brainslinger
08-02-2009, 12:10 PM
I thought I read somewhere that some of the backstory stuff would be collected when all the arcs are finished... but that might have been a dream.

I actually don't mind some of these essays. The stuff in this issue felt a bit of a repeat of stuff that has appeared before though. Except last time it was more a 'historical' desription of the lives of women in Mid-world. Now it's straight from the Writer's perspective.... but it still feels repetitive.

I do miss the folklore/history stuff though. I hope it's brought back for the next arc at least. It's ok if they continue to include the odd essay though. It's not as if they haven't done 2 separate articles in the back of comics.

I think it's unfair to say Robin Furth is just patting herself on the back in a self congratulatory way. If anything I think she's rather humble. She just seems to be describing her thoughts and insights into Mid-world. I don't always agree with her take on things, but different individuals tend to get different interpretations from the same work. It's still interesting to read.

I think the Englishman thinking her to be a man was more to do with her first name than any assumption of concerning males and females in comics though! ;) Especially over here where names are pretty clear cut male and female.

Over in the states and Canada there seems to be more ambiguity. I.e. I knew a Canadian guy called Kelly. Then there's the famous actor Marion Mitchell Morrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne) who has the same first name as my mum.... (No wonder he felt the need to overcompensate. ;)

CyberGhostface
08-03-2009, 01:51 PM
I think it would be best if A.) they got rid of the extra features entirely and instead made the stories double-sized (this would have definitely improved the first arc as they would have been able to fit in a lot more stuff from the book) or B.) just sell it as a regular-sized issue and save a dollar. It would probably get more readers that way.

Hannah
08-04-2009, 09:16 PM
CyberGhostface + Robin Furth = secret love?


:P

Frankly I haven't been able to keep up with all of the essays and side stories and all of that in each issue. I'm with Pam on this. I think they should include all of the extras in the omnibus, just to make it easier for me, so I don't have to dig through my fella's comics trying to find the bit that I wanted to read about whatever it is I wanted to read about.

Doesn't Marvel realize that I am all-important and they should bend to my will? :dance:

turtlex
08-05-2009, 12:37 AM
Hannah :wub: :lol:

Sincerely, I think the essays are a nice addition to the content. A perfect example is the current issue and the related essay on female gunslingers.

I love that Furth actually named the Sai King books she took inspiration from and related Roland teaching Susannah to the current storyline.

Granted, not all the essays are as good - but I think they definitely have a place in each issue.

Don't get me wrong - without a doubt I'd like more maps, and character sketches, storyboards, etc. I do enjoy the pages which include the "making of" stuff.

And, really, with the current essay, the illustrations done by Dennis Calero were great. I like his take on Aileen ( I assume it's her in the art ) better than Isanove's.

CyberGhostface
08-05-2009, 07:55 AM
CyberGhostface + Robin Furth = secret love?

If she does something good, I'll gladly admit it. I've said numerous times how much I loved her Concordances, and I thought the Long Road Home was a fun read. But everything else IMO has been 'meh' at best and downright horrible at worst.

pathoftheturtle
08-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Those articles do always seem to presume in their tone that we really liked the comic. I guess that it does kind of make sense, since after all, they are aimed at those who are buying them. I still think that a little criticism is fair, however. Not to get carried away or to get personal about her, just to say where we happen to differ on the treatment of the series which we also love.
For example, Ms. Furth said in her afterward to "The Sorceror" that "Quoting Crowley was a big risk, but one that I think was worth taking." I respectfully disagree. I found those quotes jarring, and a somewhat poor means of characterizing TMIB.

CyberGhostface
08-06-2009, 03:36 PM
Regarding Crowley, didn't she say she went to him because she wanted to find a voice for Walter/Marten?

Erm...the guy's already appeared in two major novels from King as well as assorted appearances throughout the entire Dark Tower series. I'd say his voice is pretty well-defined by now. I don't think Flagg ever spoke like how Furth wrote him, even in the Dark Tower. He never spoke with words like "thee", "thou" or "alas", for example.

Brainslinger
08-08-2009, 08:10 AM
>I don't think Flagg ever spoke like how Furth wrote him

I was about to say that was the Peter David influence.

But then I suddenly remembered that The Sorceror was all Furth's writing... so... um...

Actually I think he would use that terminology in the right context. Talking to his sister/lover for example or even Gabrielle. Seems a bit of a lovers thing...

As for Crowley, I didn't have much problem with that taking into account the context in which he was referenced. I.e. the rationale and morality (or lack thereof) of the sorceror. "Do what thou wilt". Fits him well and the thou's there fit being an old text and all from Walt's point of view. Likely in the multiverse Crowley got it from him. Heh.

turtlex
08-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Great Citizens... I'll likely merge this with the Furth / David thread sometime soon.

turtlex
10-19-2009, 06:04 AM
Hey - Looks like Robin Furth is very involved with the new DISCORDIA online project just anounced over at Sai King's site.

Discordia ... directed by Robin Furth

Link to Discordia teaser video (http://stephenking.com/multimedia/dt_video/) - Furth is mentioned at the very end with a "Directed by" credit.

CyberGhostface
10-20-2009, 09:05 AM
Carrying over from the Jericho Hill #2 thread...


Furth may be "playing in King's sandbox" but she's got his approval to be hanging out there. And, frankly, I'm thinking she checks stuff out with him. She's not going to be creating backstories all willy-nilly and left field. Do you think Sai King would allow that?!?

She does get approval from King, but that doesn't mean much to me. King after all was extraordinarily enthusiastic over Mick Garris's adaptations of Desperation and Riding the Bullet. But that wasn't necessarily my point--my point was that I would rather see these pivotal events in Dark Tower lore written by sai King and not someone else. Even if King is overseeing it, it's still not his work.


Um, I really cannot consider her an "amateur" writer. You may not agree with her take on things, but she's a professional/published author.

Maybe "amateur" wasn't the best definition, but she's still riding on the coattails of a much better author and has yet to do anything major without his name on the cover. (I think she did a Satana one-shot for Marvel, but that's it.) They chose her because she wrote the Concordances which, while very helpful and informative, could probably be done by a number of DT junkies here.

Daghain
10-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Yeah, I'm not overly thrilled with her either. I'll give her an A+ on her research skills, though, because of the Concordance. Her other writing is okay, but not anything I'd call spectacular.

Color me unimpressed.

CyberGhostface
10-20-2009, 09:17 AM
It's too bad she had to spoil the ending for the series in the first Concordance, though...

Daghain
10-20-2009, 09:23 AM
Ha, didn't know that! I didn't get the Concordance until I started working on the Towerpedia.

CyberGhostface
10-20-2009, 09:29 AM
Yep. In the first Concordance (which was written when only the first four books and the Revised Gunslinger were out) she writes that that Roland may be caught in a loop. I think partially because of what she wrote that theory became one of the most prevalent ones on the TDT.net forums prior to its release, so a lot of us weren't surprised when the last book came out.

turtlex
10-20-2009, 09:34 AM
Carrying over from the Jericho Hill #2 thread...

CG - Thanks for bringing this stuff over from the other thread. I appreciate it. :couple:


She does get approval from King, but that doesn't mean much to me. King after all was extraordinarily enthusiastic over Mick Garris's adaptations of Desperation and Riding the Bullet. But that wasn't necessarily my point--my point was that I would rather see these pivotal events in Dark Tower lore written by sai King and not someone else. Even if King is overseeing it, it's still not his work.

Well, I can't disagree with you there. I mean, I'd love for Sai King to do nothing all day long, every day, but write Dark Tower stories and lore, but that's never going to happen.

As far as I can read it, to me, he's listened to the fans who want more DT stuff and has entrusted her to deliver if for him.

I guess I sort of look at it as if ... if he feels she'll do his stories and characters justice, I have to trust his opinion of her.


Maybe "amateur" wasn't the best definition, but she's still riding on the coattails of a much better author and has yet to do anything major without his name on the cover. (I think she did a Satana one-shot for Marvel, but that's it.) They chose her because she wrote the Concordances which, while very helpful and informative, could probably be done by a number of DT junkies here.

I still call her a professional author, however.

I do see your point though, without Sai King who knows if we'd ever have heard from her.

She does have other comic titles to her name, but nothing huge.


Yeah, I'm not overly thrilled with her either. I'll give her an A+ on her research skills, though, because of the Concordance. Her other writing is okay, but not anything I'd call spectacular.

Color me unimpressed.

Now, I love Peter David... he's an icon and has written some amazing stories and arcs... but I do wonder how much of what is dis-liked ... how much is Furth's stories and how much is David's writing of those?

I honestly do like it. I'm a comic geek and a DT geek, and the combination of both - it would be hard for me not to like it.

The only stuff I've not liked, specifically, is the Yentl-like actions of Aileen... and I have to assume that came originally from Sai King... down to Robin Furth and then from Peter David.

:orely: Hmmm... yeah, that is a lot of filtering from the source.

Daghain
10-20-2009, 09:44 AM
Sorry, should have been more clear there. What I dislike is Furth's tales at the end of the comics. The rest is okay most of the time. That narrator, though - damn he's annoying! :lol:

turtlex
10-20-2009, 09:48 AM
Sorry, should have been more clear there. What I dislike is Furth's tales at the end of the comics. The rest is okay most of the time. That narrator, though - damn he's annoying! :lol:

Oh, well, that's different. Nevermind. :D

I can see where some of the essays go on for a bit, but still - I kind of like them, too, because she uses them to explain where she gets the details from. At least some of them do.

CyberGhostface
10-20-2009, 09:52 AM
The only stuff I've not liked, specifically, is the Yentl-like actions of Aileen... and I have to assume that came originally from Sai King... down to Robin Furth and then from Peter David.

I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. Her appendices indicate that a lot of the creative decisions are hers. For example, it was her idea to come up with Cort being poisoned by Marten's book. And it was entirely her idea to have the great plot point of the Grapefruit as the incestful succubus to Walter. Her interviews also indicate that Aileen's story is pretty much all hers because she wanted to have the "strong yet spunky independent female" character in the series.

jayson
10-20-2009, 11:11 AM
I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. Her appendices indicate that a lot of the creative decisions are hers. For example, it was her idea to come up with Cort being poisoned by Marten's book. And it was entirely her idea to have the great plot point of the Grapefruit as the incestful succubus to Walter. Her interviews also indicate that Aileen's story is pretty much all hers because she wanted to have the "strong yet spunky independent female" character in the series.

and if it were king, he'd have tried to heavy-handedly force it into the revised version like he did with the 19 thing.

CyberGhostface
10-20-2009, 11:40 AM
Shhh, don't give him any ideas.

turtlex
10-20-2009, 11:43 AM
The only stuff I've not liked, specifically, is the Yentl-like actions of Aileen... and I have to assume that came originally from Sai King... down to Robin Furth and then from Peter David.

I'm not sure if that's the case anymore. Her appendices indicate that a lot of the creative decisions are hers. For example, it was her idea to come up with Cort being poisoned by Marten's book. And it was entirely her idea to have the great plot point of the Grapefruit as the incestful succubus to Walter. Her interviews also indicate that Aileen's story is pretty much all hers because she wanted to have the "strong yet spunky independent female" character in the series.

But Sai King approves the stories, yes?

I do see your point, though. And, well, Yent...Aileen is just a sort of dumb storyline... regardless of who wrote it. I mean, like no one would notice that Aileen "disappeared" and suddenly this "boy" shows up in town and starts hanging out with Roland and the gang?!? :lol: He looks sorta familiar, though.... And no one connects the dots!

Patrick
10-20-2009, 08:19 PM
... I mean, like no one would notice that Aileen "disappeared" and suddenly this "boy" shows up in town and starts hanging out with Roland and the gang?!? :lol: He looks sorta familiar, though.... And no one connects the dots!
Sounds like a plotline Shakespeare would come up with - and we all know what a hack he was.

turtlex
10-21-2009, 02:50 AM
... I mean, like no one would notice that Aileen "disappeared" and suddenly this "boy" shows up in town and starts hanging out with Roland and the gang?!? :lol: He looks sorta familiar, though.... And no one connects the dots!
Sounds like a plotline Shakespeare would come up with - and we all know what a hack he was.

:lol:

Yeah, he'll never catch on. Flash in the pan!

CyberGhostface
10-21-2009, 07:07 AM
But Sai King approves the stories, yes?

Yes, but simply checking off what she writes is not the same thing as doing it himself.

And it's not a matter of King taking away time for his novels if he were to write scripts for the comics. In addition to writing a novel every other year or so, he's also written numerous short stories, screenplays, reviews, columns, etc. I don't think writing a handful of comic scripts in addition would be too much of a load on his back.


Sounds like a plotline Shakespeare would come up with - and we all know what a hack he was.

Which play was that? Was it a comedy?

Although I would say that the whole concept isn't bad in and out of itself--for example, as I pointed out in an earlier thread, Disney's Mulan was a decent film and applied the similar trope of a girl pretending to be a male to fight a war in her father's place.

turtlex
10-21-2009, 07:11 AM
CG - I think you're making light of the amount of time it takes to write a good comic script.

CyberGhostface
10-21-2009, 07:24 AM
I doubt it would take King any longer than it does for him to write a novella/short story. Probably less.

turtlex
10-21-2009, 07:25 AM
I doubt it would take King any longer than it does for him to write a novella/short story. Probably less.

Yeah, but that would be one comic issue a month !

So what if it takes him a month to write a short story/novella... that's a heck of a lot of time.

And the next arc is 30 issues.

That's 30 months commitment.

CyberGhostface
10-21-2009, 07:27 AM
Comic writers usually write their scripts in advance. It's not a case of writing one each month. At the very least he could outline the stories and general plot and have Peter David translate it to script.

But I wouldn't expect him to write The Gunslinger series anymore than I would to see him write The Stand, as the story is already done and just needs to be adapted.

turtlex
10-21-2009, 07:29 AM
Yeah, but still... what I'm saying is - it's a huge time commitment for anyone.

Doesn't matter if the scripts are getting written ahead of time or not. They still take time and that's a lot of writing.

...plus there's got to be a huge amount of colaboration with the comic artist involved, because a writer can't work without input from the artist, and vise versa.

Daghain
10-21-2009, 08:25 AM
Which play was that? Was it a comedy?



Oh, there's more than one:

Twelfth Night
Cymbeline
As You Like It
Merchant of Venice

I think I got them all, but I might be mistaken.

Brainslinger
10-21-2009, 10:27 AM
...plus there's got to be a huge amount of colaboration with the comic artist involved, because a writer can't work without input from the artist, and vise versa.

I think it depends on the type of comic one writes. For example, some 2000 AD stories get written with little if any communication between the writer and artist. (I think there is more communication for the bigger stories though, I'm mainly thinking of the short 5 pagers like Future Shocks which get a writer his/her foot in the door.) I think the process is a bit different over here in Britain though with each creator having more control over their individual contribution.

I'm sure you're right for the Dark Tower comics though. I remember being a tad surprised by all the back and forth stuff that goes on when reading the behind the scenes supplements. I.e. Panels drawn according to outline and the script created later? Dear me. Over here the script is usually written first in entirety and then the artist adapts it... but they usually have complete control of how they want it to look.

In short it's an easier process here. Creators are left to do their thing without each step being approved, but they're paid a good deal less. Which is one reason why a lot of our creators end up across the pond working for Marvel and DC. Heh.

turtlex
10-21-2009, 11:33 AM
Actually, that's a good question to ask Richard Isanove over in the other thread - about how close/much collaboration goes into each issue!

Question Asked Of Richard Here (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=9427)

Patrick
10-21-2009, 08:19 PM
... I mean, like no one would notice that Aileen "disappeared" and suddenly this "boy" shows up in town and starts hanging out with Roland and the gang?!? :lol: He looks sorta familiar, though.... And no one connects the dots!
Sounds like a plotline Shakespeare would come up with - and we all know what a hack he was.

:lol:

Yeah, he'll never catch on. Flash in the pan!
:rofl:





Which play was that? Was it a comedy?


Oh, there's more than one:

Twelfth Night
Cymbeline
As You Like It
Merchant of Venice

I think I got them all, but I might be mistaken.
I only thought of three of your four, so that list looks complete to me. :lol:

CyberGhostface
10-22-2009, 08:40 AM
According to Isanove, what Furth does is write a 12-20 page prose story and everyone takes it from there. King could do that in his sleep. If he were to take less than half an hour each day he could probably get four issues done in a month and always be on time. (I'm being generous though--he could probably write the whole thing before breakfast)

pathoftheturtle
10-22-2009, 01:03 PM
Far from thinking that only Stephen King should be allowed to touch this mythos, I'd like to see more writers than just Furth contribute.

And I realize that the argument about Aileen is just an aside here, but to toss in my own two cents, I tend to agree that such a trope can be hit-or-miss. Specifically in this case, it doesn't bother me unless I think about it. I guess I have mixed feelings.

CyberGhostface
10-22-2009, 04:20 PM
I guess it would depend on who's writing it. I don't think anyone would say no if the writers from Lost or Daniel Knauf would go on board.

turtlex
10-23-2009, 03:26 AM
Far from thinking that only Stephen King should be allowed to touch this mythos, I'd like to see more writers than just Furth contribute.

And I realize that the argument about Aileen is just an aside here, but to toss in my own two cents, I tend to agree that such a trope can be hit-or-miss. Specifically in this case, it doesn't bother me unless I think about it. I guess I have mixed feelings.

It doesn't bother you unless you think about it?!?!

Dude? How can you not think about it ... she's in every issue looking like a cross between Bobby Brady and Pancho Villa.

pathoftheturtle
10-24-2009, 10:52 AM
It's clearly an open secret. Everyone calls her by name, even in public. Doesn't seem like the writers are thinking about it all of the time, either. Seems Furth just wanted an excuse to include her. Writing consistently of an alien culture is more difficult. I expect some measure of slackness when I pick up a comic book. It's just a part of how I read, I suppose.

turtlex
11-06-2009, 03:07 AM
Peter David talks X-Factor (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23573)

CyberGhostface
11-07-2009, 07:52 PM
In response to the argument that King wouldn't be able to balance writing both comics and novels, doesn't his involvement in the "American Vampire" series disprove that a little? (I say "a little" as he's not in it for the long haul like Furth and David apparently are, but he's still doing it)

turtlex
11-08-2009, 04:31 AM
In response to the argument that King wouldn't be able to balance writing both comics and novels, doesn't his involvement in the "American Vampire" series disprove that a little? (I say "a little" as he's not in it for the long haul like Furth and David apparently are, but he's still doing it)

Yes, on some points, for sure. Then again, he's just contributing, it's not all on him to write the whole thing, every month.

turtlex
01-15-2010, 10:02 AM
Hey NYC local folks - Peter David is doing a signing on January 27th.

Though it's a signing for IronMan... how could he turn down some DT related books?!??!

Details :
Legendary writer Peter David (Fallen Angel, Dark Tower, X-Factor, a ton more) and artist Sean Chen (Mighty Avengers, Dark Reign: Fantastic Four) will be signing copies of their new book I Am Iron Man #1 EXCLUSIVELY at our Manhattan location on Wednesday, January 27 starting at 5:00pm!

This is your chance to meet industry legend Peter David and the great artist Sean Chen at our first signing of 2010, exclusively at Jim Hanley’s Universe, Where Fans and Creators Meet!

Jim Hanley’s Universe, 4 West 33rd Street, New York, NY 10001

(off 5th Ave. – opposite the Empire State Building)

http://www.conventionscene.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/chen-580x896.jpg

turtlex
08-19-2010, 03:55 PM
Hi,
I've talked to Robin Furth about The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger, if you're interested: http://stephenking.pl/sk_wywiady_skpl_091.html
(there is also one question about Discordia and about Wind Throught The Keyhole).

Many thanks to nocny for this link! Thought I'd bring it over here so hopefully more folks will see it.