Scorsese.

[Seymour_Glass]

So, last night I watched Taxi Driver, and I'm re-watching GoodFellas right now, and I kinda have to say that Marty is some sorta Wizard. I can't really think of an American filmmaker who has the same kind of track record, except for maybe Spielberg. So, I'm asking you: what is your favorite Scorsese film and why?

[Seymour_Glass]

Thread fail?

[obscurejude]

Sorry Seymour, I just don't have much to say. Maybe its because there are so many clones out there, particular in regards to mafia movies, but I'm just not a huge fan. A lot of it seems remarkably unremarkable, but I don't mean that disrespectfully. Its probably homage to his influence if anything.

I'm very thankful that he did his documentary on the blues. I think its a very important project and the genre needs all the awareness it can get.

[Seymour_Glass]

It's true that most mob movies out there are watered-down Scorsese. But most of them lack his comments on the American Dream and Catholic guilt.

Also, none of his imitators has made a film as affecting as Taxi Driver, imho.

[fernandito]

Goodfellas is my favorite Scorsese movie, and his best film IMO. It's so raw and powerful, and virtually every actor in that movie gives more than solid performances. Memorable dialogue, great cinematography, the works.

[jayson]

I'm very thankful that he did his documentary on the blues. I think its a very important project and the genre needs all the awareness it can get.

The blues documentary somewhat made up for The Last Waltz. I know, I know, the movie is a classic but 99% of that comes down to how spectacular The Band was as a live band. Truth of the matter is, Scorcese did a shit job with the filming and the editing.

The editing put Robertson over as the leader (and a singer) and the cameras almost ignore Richard Manuel completely (even when he was singing) and other than his solo for "The Genetic Method" pretty much ignore Garth as well (which is a travesty). Scorcese and his camera guys missed the most touching scene of the whole night, when Muddy Waters kissed Levon Helm on the forehead after his set with The Band. How's that for Scorcese's appreciation of the blues? Thankfully Levon told the story in his book.

Of course, Scorcese was among the camp that was lobbying Robbie to break up The Band and be a big star on his own despite nobody else in the band wanting to break up so it's not surprising he didn't really get the vibe onstage either. He just focused that camera on Robbie fake singing into his unplugged microphone and that was that.

Worst of all to me though is that Scorcese used a matte to edit out the giant wad of coke stuck in Neil Young's nostril. It's supposed to be a documentary. Documentaries document. Scorcese lost a lot of credibility on that one. Maybe even more than he did allowing Robbie to overdub all of his solos.

I do love Goodfellas and Mean Streets though. :rolleyes:

[obscurejude]

In my case, beggars aren't choosers. I'm not an expert on blues and I don't play one on t.v. It is a dying genre, and its one I appreciate and don't want to see fade into oblivion. I have no issues with stadium girls screaming for all the wrong reasons when John Mayer does an SRV cover.

[Seymour_Glass]

[quote=obscurejude;399886]
I do love Goodfellas and Mean Streets though. :rolleyes:

Vhat, no Raging Bull or Taxi Driver? Oy!!

[jayson]

I do love Goodfellas and Mean Streets though. :rolleyes:

Vhat, no Raging Bull or Taxi Driver? Oy!!

Oh I didn't mean to suggest I didn't like those as well because I do. :)

[Seymour_Glass]

Okay. That was my Jewish grandmother voice, by the way. Hard to tell, but...

[Sam]

I really don't think much of Scorsese's films myself. I'm not saying his films are bad, most of them that I've seen have been fairly good. They just haven't been good enough to garner a second viewing. Akira Kurosawa on the other hand...

GREATEST DIRECTOR EVER.

[jayson]

Okay. That was my Jewish grandmother voice, by the way. Hard to tell, but...

Not too hard for me to tell. I had two of them. :D

[Seymour_Glass]

Niiiice.:)

[Seymour_Glass]

I really don't think much of Scorsese's films myself. I'm not saying his films are bad, most of them that I've seen have been fairly good. They just haven't been good enough to garner a second viewing. Akira Kurosawa on the other hand...

GREATEST DIRECTOR EVER.

Which ones have you seen? Cause I tend to forget about his output that doesn't feature awesomeness, even though I know it exists.

[Still Servant]

I love Scorsese films. I think he's one of the greatest directors of our time.

Taxi Driver, Raging Bull and Goodfellas are classics. I also really love Casino. I don't think it gets enough attention for being a great film. Mean Streets is is another solid film that gets lost in the shuffle.

I also liked his remake of Cape Fear. His more recent work is also good with Gangs of New York and The Departed. I think if The Departed was made 20 years ago we would be talking about it like we talk about films like Goodfellas.

One of his only films I don't like is The Aviator.

Marty Scorsese and Sidney Lumet are among my favorite directors of all time.

[Sam]

Which Scorsese films have I seen? Well, here we go (along with my feelings toward the film in brief).

Casino - too long and too much of a redo of Goodfellas. Interesting to see Pesci and DeNiro together, too bad it wasn't a better movie.
Gangs of New York - too long and very slow in the middle. Could have used some editing for time.
Goodfellas - very interesting film and probably his best
Taxi Driver - boring. I couldn't have possibly cared less about the characters (and I really like DeNiro as an actor).
Cape Fear - my favorite Scorsese film. A far cry from the original, but still a fun film.
Ragin Bull - an interesting character portrayal and great acting by DeNiro. Slow and kinda boring storywise though.
The Color of Money - a shadow of the original story The Hustler.

That pretty much covers the Scorsese films I've seen. I have yet to see The Departed, which I want to see, but that is pretty much where my interest ends. Sorry.

[Seymour_Glass]

Well, if you think some of his stuff is slow paced, which I guess it kinda is, you probably would enjoy the Departed. From what I remember it's pretty fast, and feels much shorter than it is.

[Seymour_Glass]

Shutter Island Trailer

[Mattrick]

I wouldn't say I'm a big Scorcese fan but I don't hate the guy. I haven't seen Taxi Driver or Raging Bull yet (thought I own the latter) and I still have to get around to seeing Cape Fear, but I'd say my favourite flicks from him are:

The Aviator
The Departed
Casino

His worst movie is easily Bringing Out The Dead.

[Heather19]

Shutter Island Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjjCBM0CltY)

Now that looks good!!!

[Seymour_Glass]

I wouldn't say I'm a big Scorcese fan but I don't hate the guy. I haven't seen Taxi Driver or Raging Bull yet (thought I own the latter) and I still have to get around to seeing Cape Fear, but I'd say my favourite flicks from him are:

The Aviator
The Departed
Casino

His worst movie is easily Bringing Out The Dead.

Taxi Driver is, imo, his crowning achievement.

And Nic Cage was in Bringing Out the Dead. The only movies he's been good in are Adaptation, Matchstick Men and Raising Arizona.

[fernandito]

Goodfellas is his best, IMO. It was robbed of an Oscar.

[Seymour_Glass]

It was definitely robbed. Dances with Wolves was good, but.....:unsure:

[jayson]

Goodfellas is his best, IMO. It was robbed of an Oscar.
:clap:

no question about that

[Seymour_Glass]

So was Taxi Driver. And Raging Bull.

[fernandito]

Shutter Island - another fine addition to Scorseses already expansive repertoire.

[Seymour_Glass]

I need to see it. Also, I was very excited to see this thread back to the top.

So, anyway, tell me more about what you thought of Shutter Island.

[SynysterSaint]

I saw Shutter Island last night. Aside from a few skips in shot continuity (maybe that added to the uneasiness?), the movie was very well done. The acting was phenomenal, in my opinion. That was DiCaprio's best work.

[Bev Vincent]

I saw Shutter Island yesterday. There were some very unusual and disorienting switches in camera position during the ferry ride. First it showed the two actors from the left and then from the right, and back and forth a couple of times more. Having read the book, I wondered if this was supposed to be some sort of clue, but I couldn’t work anything out. I didn’t care for the fast panning shots early on, either. The scene where the guard says “and on the right…” and the camera swivels like a head “and on the left…” ditto. There were a couple of other instances like that that just pulled me out of the movie and made me overly aware of the camera.

It seemed to settle down after that, or at least I stopped noticing it. The film sagged heavily in the middle, but there were some very nice performances by Patricia Clarkson and Ted Levine. Ben Kingsley steals the film, I think. DiCaprio, not so much, and Ruffalo, it’s like he’s not really there, he leaves so little impression. Michelle Williams is quite good, too, and Max von Sydow has a fun role. It wasn’t a terrible movie, and better than the book, I’d say. I’d give it a B-minus. I loved the scene between Ted Levine (Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs, also from Monk) and DiCaprio in the jeep. While discussing the inherent violence of man, Levine’s character says something to the effect: “If I were to lean over and bite your eye out, do you think you could stop me?”

[cody44]

I watched Shutter Island last night as well, and there are some shots that cut items and skip on purpose. I think the movie had a lot of subtle hints leading up to the ending. In my opinion, it was close to a masterpiece. I have yet to see his early works, but I've seen most of Scorsese's works from 2000 onwards.

I really want to see it for a second time. What a great character study.

[Seymour_Glass]

Dude, you have to see early Scorsese. Mean Streets, Taxi Driver and Raging bull are three of the best American films ever.

Also, i'm friggin' excited to see this movie.:excited:

[Sam]

Not that I'm trying to injure the Scorsese love, but I have truly never enjoyed watching a Scorsese film. I have tried quite a few of them but have yet to enjoy one. The closest I can get is I enjoyed some of the scenes in several of the films, but that's about it.

[Still Servant]

Not that I'm trying to injure the Scorsese love, but I have truly never enjoyed watching a Scorsese film. I have tried quite a few of them but have yet to enjoy one. The closest I can get is I enjoyed some of the scenes in several of the films, but that's about it.
:scared:

[Still Servant]

What don't you find enjoyable about them?

[cody44]

I'll get around to them eventually. I'm working on watching every film on the IMDb top 250 list and they are all on there.

[fernandito]

Taxi Driver and Goodfellas are a must. Start with those :fairy:

[turtlex]

Goodfellas and Raging Bull. Probably my favorites.

Oh and I'm a little bothered by a mention of continuity errors in Shutter Island. That's surprising and usually a sign of lazy filmmaking. Were they blantant?

< -- Not a fan of DiCaprio at all, though, so will probably wait for cable to see SI.

[fernandito]

I am offended that Pam used the terms 'lazy film-making' in a thread dedicated to Scorsese. :nope:

[turtlex]

I am offended that Pam used the terms 'lazy film-making' in a thread dedicated to Scorsese. :nope:


:lol:

Exactly my point, Feev. ><

Did you see continuity errors in SI ?!?

Scorsese is amazing, and I'm shocked by seeing it mentioned above. There's really no excuse for continuity mistakes.

Thelma Schoonmaker is about the best editor working today, and I can't imagine her and Scorsese letting a continuity issue get by them.

[Sam]

What don't you find enjoyable about them?

The story mostly, but the pacing as well. He's great at making good scenes as well as memorable ones, and I think Scorsese's really a good film maker just not a teller of good stories.

I've never had any desire to watch a Scorsese film a second time. I don't actively hate his films like I do Kubrick's (in which case, I don't like the film making style while the stories may be good). I just haven't enjoyed seeing any of them.

[fernandito]

I, me , my, myself, yo, moi, personally , did not see any mistakes in continuity whatsoever. Yes it is a spider web of a tale , and yes you will often feel the warm thrill of confusion, but every doubt you had, and any pending loose end is explained in the climax of the film, where virtually all but the ambiguous ending are left open to interpretation.

[turtlex]

I saw Shutter Island last night. Aside from a few skips in shot continuity (maybe that added to the uneasiness?), the movie was very well done. The acting was phenomenal, in my opinion. That was DiCaprio's best work.

Thanks, Feev! :couple:

SS - Can you elaborate on this part regarding the shot continuity?

[IWasSentWest]

Scorsese's films are great, IMO. all of his work (excluding a few) deserve to be watched by any fan of a good movie. Goodfellas, taxi driver, raging bull, the departed, the last temptation of christ, casino...he has a fairly fucking awesome list of great movies :thumbsup:

can't wait to see shutter island

[SynysterSaint]

SS - Can you elaborate on this part regarding the shot continuity?

I most certainly can, my friend.

The action between shots is not consistent for a few of the more memorable scenes. For instance: Teddy asks for a glass of water to wash down some pain pills with. As he raises the cup to his lips, his partner, Chuck, begins movement. In the next shot, Chuck is continuing his movement from the previous shot as one would expect, but Teddy's glass is already in his lap (with the amount of movement made from shot to shot, the glass should still be at his lips).

The shot continuity isn't drastically off, but there are moments where the character movements are not fluidly continued from shot to shot, as shown above. I believe someone mentioned this already, but if I remember right one of the dream sequences was a bit off, as well. Teddy is speaking and the person he's speaking to begins to turn around. The next time the camera looks over, they are still facing the way they were before they turned around.

There are at least a dozen examples of this, but I saw the movie a few days ago and I can't remember all of them as detailed as my first example; I apologize. I think this continuity error has to do with the plot, though. I wish I could elaborate more, but if you haven't seen it then I don't want to [potentially] spoil anything.

[SynysterSaint]

On a side note, for those who have finished the movie:

Do you believe that Andrew regressed (reset himself) or that he wanted the doctors to believe that so he would be lobotomized? Wikipedia claims that at the end of the novel (same as the movie ending) he was faking his regression, but the ending is really up to interpretation on this one. Myself, I believe that he was faking. I think that the last line was added in order for the audience to assume he was bluffing over the option that he actually reset (the book ends exactly one line prior when Andrew states, "We're too smart for them." [not verbatim, but close enough]). I would prefer an ending where he actually reset, though. I need to think about this one a bit :lol:

[turtlex]

SS !! Thank you so much for the great recall. :grouphug:

Um, stuff like that will undoubtedly drive me crazy when seeing SI.

Continuity errors always catch my eye and completely pull me out of the "movie bubble".

A quick shout-out to folks looking for a good Scorsese to pick up ... I absolutely love King of Comedy and a lot of people overlook it.

[Seymour_Glass]

I also really liked the king of Comedy, and have to rec After Hours if you've not seen it. It's a late night comedy that builds suspense like a thriller. And has Cheech and Chong.

[Heather19]

I, me , my, myself, yo, moi, personally , did not see any mistakes in continuity whatsoever. Yes it is a spider web of a tale , and yes you will often feel the warm thrill of confusion, but every doubt you had, and any pending loose end is explained in the climax of the film, where virtually all but the ambiguous ending are left open to interpretation.

:wub: My thoughts exactly



On a side note, for those who have finished the movie:

Do you believe that Andrew regressed (reset himself) or that he wanted the doctors to believe that so he would be lobotomized? Wikipedia claims that at the end of the novel (same as the movie ending) he was faking his regression, but the ending is really up to interpretation on this one. Myself, I believe that he was faking. I think that the last line was added in order for the audience to assume he was bluffing over the option that he actually reset (the book ends exactly one line prior when Andrew states, "We're too smart for them." [not verbatim, but close enough]). I would prefer an ending where he actually reset, though. I need to think about this one a bit :lol:

My take
I think that he did realize what he had done, but I don't think that he wanted to live with that knowledge. So he choose to pretend to not be all right so that they would give him a lobotomy. And I'm basing that on his last line, which I unfortunately can't recall at the moment, and then him willingly walking off with the doctors. I think he knew full well what was going to happen.


And I'm kinda embarrassed to admit, but I haven't seen many of Scorsese's other films. I think Cape Fear and Bringing Out the Dead are the only 2 others I've seen ><

[Seymour_Glass]

And I'm kinda embarrassed to admit, but I haven't seen many of Scorsese's other films. I think Cape Fear and Bringing Out the Dead are the only 2 others I've seen ><

That's my cue to pop out and tell you to see more. Also to say that i really liked Bringing Out the Dead, and to talk about how Nic Cage is a great actor sometimes.

[Heather19]

And I'm kinda embarrassed to admit, but I haven't seen many of Scorsese's other films. I think Cape Fear and Bringing Out the Dead are the only 2 others I've seen ><

That's my cue to pop out and tell you to see more. Also to say that i really liked Bringing Out the Dead, and to talk about how Nic Cage is a great actor sometimes.

Don't worry I will :)
The Departed and Taxi Driver are on the top of my list.

[SynysterSaint]

SS !! Thank you so much for the great recall. :grouphug:

Um, stuff like that will undoubtedly drive me crazy when seeing SI.

Continuity errors always catch my eye and completely pull me out of the "movie bubble".

You're very welcome, turtlex :D

When it comes to directorial continuity in a movie, I look at two different things: 1) was it intentional? and 2) does the movie benefit from the discontinuity/would it would benefit if it were taken out? I have an example ready: I love Quentin Tarantino movies. However, he is legendary for adding small inconsistencies throughout the film. For instance, if you line up certain scenes of Pulp Fiction (meaning if you put the shots in chronological order) certain characters are wearing slightly different clothes. In Kill Bill, there are at least a dozen small discontinuities throughout each of the two films. These things were intentional by Tarantino, and even if they weren't, the films do not suffer from them being there; in fact, part of the fun of re-watching those films is to find all of the small things. I understand this isn't exactly the same as what we're talking about with Shutter Island, but I think you understand my point. Those movies are fine and there are small errors throughout all of them.

I cannot tell you for sure whether Scorsese meant for some of the shots to come out as they did, but it makes sense with the ending of the movie. I wish I could tell you more, but the jump cuts really do accentuate the point, so-to-speak, if you know how the movie ends. The best I can tell you, turtlex, is to watch the movie in its entirety before you judge it for its discontinuous shots. I think, once you see it through, you'll realize why they don't (or maybe they do) matter.



My take
I think that he did realize what he had done, but I don't think that he wanted to live with that knowledge. So he choose to pretend to not be all right so that they would give him a lobotomy. And I'm basing that on his last line, which I unfortunately can't recall at the moment, and then him willingly walking off with the doctors. I think he knew full well what was going to happen.

I really like that. If I were to assume he was still aware that his name was Andrew and that he did actually murder his wife, then I would assume the exact same thing you have already said. It's my favorite "he knew they were going to lobotomize him" idea. I just can't shake the feeling that he actually regressed. Like I said, I'm in limbo about whether he actually reset or not.

The quote was something along the lines of: "Which is worse: having to die as a good man or live as a monster?"

[fernandito]

Oh oh oh ! You guys are talking about continuity errors as in, movie goofs/mistakes/inconsistencies etc. ?! I thought we were discussing inconsistencies as far as the story telling mechanics are concerned.

Honestly, I think analyzing errors like that is pointless because every movie has them. If you were so inclined to do so, you could analyze any movie right out of existence. Take for example, two of my most favorite movies : The Dark Knight and Terminator 2 - I love both movies to death, but they are plagued with glaring inconsistencies. Having said that, those errors in continuity are in no way detrimental to my enjoyment of said movies. But, to each their own I suppose.

As my interpretation to the ending -

I believe that Teddy was 'cured' and that he chose to lead Dr. Shien to believe that he had reverted back to his original state, rewinding the tape so to speak. The quote he gives - Is it better to live as a monster, or die as a good man? - is , to me, a strong indication that he has chosen to die instead of living with the pain of the knowledge of what he did to his wife.

[SynysterSaint]

Oh oh oh ! You guys are talking about continuity errors as in, movie goofs/mistakes/inconsistencies etc. ?! I thought we were discussing inconsistencies as far as the story telling mechanics are concerned.

Honestly, I think analyzing errors like that is pointless because every movie has them. If you were so inclined to do so, you could analyze any movie right out of existence. Take for example, two of my most favorite movies : The Dark Knight and Terminator 2 - I love both movies to death, but they are plagued with glaring inconsistencies. Having said that, those errors in continuity are in no way detrimental to my enjoyment of said movies. But, to each their own I suppose.

Sorry for the miscommunication, feverish >< Glad to see you're on-board now! :onfire:

Yeah, you can over-analyze a movie out of existence by finding its little inconsistencies. Although, for Shutter Island, I feel they might be applicable to the story. I can't very well explain why here (for obvious reasons) but I think it is alluding to Teddy's ability to reset himself. Maybe things like this are alluding to the fact that he can just forget events happened or seemingly change them in the middle of happening. If that isn't the case, these glaring errors at least add to the general feel of obscurity and illusions the film.


As my interpretation to the ending -

I believe that Teddy was 'cured' and that he chose to lead Dr. Shien to believe that he had reverted back to his original state, rewinding the tape so to speak. The quote he gives - Is it better to live as a monster, or die as a good man? - is , to me, a strong indication that he has chosen to die instead of living with the pain of the knowledge of what he did to his wife.

I am beginning to think along the same lines as this, but I'm still getting hung up about the last line; it wasn't in the book! The book stopped exactly one line before when he says "we're too smart for them." I know books and the movies based on them are supposed to be viewed as seperate entities in this case, but I just can't bring myself to do it :panic:

[turtlex]

Hey Feev ... Yup, that's exactly what SS and I were talking about.

And, yeah, those kind of things drive me crazy. I know a lot of movies have them, and they're not always as obvious as, oh say, Julia Roberts eating a pancake in Pretty Woman, but when I notice them ... it's like a HUGE BANG in my head!

[Heather19]

Well I must have been enjoying the movie too much, as I didn't notice any of them :lol:



As my interpretation to the ending -

I believe that Teddy was 'cured' and that he chose to lead Dr. Shien to believe that he had reverted back to his original state, rewinding the tape so to speak. The quote he gives - Is it better to live as a monster, or die as a good man? - is , to me, a strong indication that he has chosen to die instead of living with the pain of the knowledge of what he did to his wife.

Yes, that's the quote. That line followed by him getting up and openly walking over to the doctors gave me the same impression as well.

I do want to read the book though, so SS I'll let you know what I think once I do. I might have a different impression with the story.

[IWasSentWest]

my interpretation of the ending -

(Pro-He's not really crazy, they were really doing crazy shit there) Let's start with the boat ride. Teddy can't find his cigs (magically), so chuck/dr. shian gives him one of his, starting him on the drugs. After that first cig, all his hallucinations and dreams start becoming disturbed. The ending statement by leo "is it better to die..." could be interpreted to mean he would rather die Teddy, than live as a monster like Andrew. Even Dr. Shian (ruffalo) stood up and called out "teddy" instead of "Boss" (like he did the whole entire movie) or Andrew before Teddy walked away to get brained (if he was a truly good Dr. helping a patient, he would've stopped the lobotomy and tried to convince Leo that it was better the other way since he was cured). Another thing was the claim that Kingsley made in the lighthouse stating that he would get lobotomized if he didn't realize he was Andrew, but earlier he had stated that his institution did not do such things. The "real" rachel salandro" told him something like this, i can't remember what. Also the "RUN" message could be interpreted as the patient knew that Chuck was Dr. Shian and once he left for the water, she wanted to help Teddy before the Dr. led him to insanity.

(Anti-He's normal, they were trying to do crazy shit at the institution) Firstly, and sadly if he was insane, the first ten min. of the movie gave away the ending. Also, how the hell do those two guys sneak into a locked down Ward C without so much as someone slowing them down? I guess the Noyce part could counter this, but still..kinda iffy. Also when he returned from the cave (where he saw Chucks body, then it was gone...also kinda says "yeh, ur nuts leo" but coulda been the drugs also) he sees some patients leaving the room with the orderlies like they were being coached to act in front of him (could be coached to help with both cases though, pro-insane or anti-insane). And when Leo said the last lines "is it better to..." this could mean what most thought, he would rather die and repent for his sin (sins, bc he thought it was his fault his kids died) than live and be a monster who had killed his wife. Another thing is the Rachel who was in the cell, her feet were not scarred one bit...if she was the REAL rachel who had escaped, her feet woulda been fucked. Lastly, why did Leo picture his wife as a blonde throughout the whole movie, but then only in that one scene his wife was the Rachel woman.

p.s -

Rachel Salandro killed her three kids in the lake in her back yard by drowning them (if you believed what the institute told Leo)...isn't it coincidental that Leo's wife (dolores) did the exact same thing? (supposedly)

[Heather19]

I don't think there ever was a Rachel Solandro that killed her kids. I think Teddy created that in his mind to mask what his wife had done.

[SynysterSaint]

(Pro-He's not really crazy, they were really doing crazy shit there) Let's start with the boat ride. Teddy can't find his cigs (magically), so chuck/dr. shian gives him one of his, starting him on the drugs. After that first cig, all his hallucinations and dreams start becoming disturbed. The ending statement by leo "is it better to die..." could be interpreted to mean he would rather die Teddy, than live as a monster like Andrew. Even Dr. Shian (ruffalo) stood up and called out "teddy" instead of "Boss" (like he did the whole entire movie) or Andrew before Teddy walked away to get brained (if he was a truly good Dr. helping a patient, he would've stopped the lobotomy and tried to convince Leo that it was better the other way since he was cured). Another thing was the claim that Kingsley made in the lighthouse stating that he would get lobotomized if he didn't realize he was Andrew, but earlier he had stated that his institution did not do such things. The "real" rachel salandro" told him something like this, i can't remember what. Also the "RUN" message could be interpreted as the patient knew that Chuck was Dr. Shian and once he left for the water, she wanted to help Teddy before the Dr. led him to insanity.

Of course Kingsley claimed they didn't do lobotomies; why would he admit that to Andrew? It would have just perpetuated "Teddy's" ideas about the "ghost soldiers" being created. There isn't a Rachel Solando unless you assume the movie is Teddy being tricked into taking medication. Therefor, anything she says is really useless, which is proven by the lighthouse being nothing more than a lighthouse. That's a hint in favor of Andrew being insane.


(Anti-He's normal, they were trying to do crazy shit at the institution) Firstly, and sadly if he was insane, the first ten min. of the movie gave away the ending. Also, how the hell do those two guys sneak into a locked down Ward C without so much as someone slowing them down? I guess the Noyce part could counter this, but still..kinda iffy. Also when he returned from the cave (where he saw Chucks body, then it was gone...also kinda says "yeh, ur nuts leo" but coulda been the drugs also) he sees some patients leaving the room with the orderlies like they were being coached to act in front of him (could be coached to help with both cases though, pro-insane or anti-insane). And when Leo said the last lines "is it better to..." this could mean what most thought, he would rather die and repent for his sin (sins, bc he thought it was his fault his kids died) than live and be a monster who had killed his wife. Another thing is the Rachel who was in the cell, her feet were not scarred one bit...if she was the REAL rachel who had escaped, her feet woulda been fucked. Lastly, why did Leo picture his wife as a blonde throughout the whole movie, but then only in that one scene his wife was the Rachel woman.

If you assume Andrew's insane, then the movie actually makes complete sense. His wife was the blonde woman the entire movie. He imagined Rachel Solando as a way to come to terms with his wife's actions. And he imagined Teddy and his wife's murderer as a way to come to terms with his actions. That's why he says the last line of the movie: to illustrate the fact that he has not reset since the previous night and that he would rather die than never reset again.


p.s -

Rachel Salandro killed her three kids in the lake in her back yard by drowning them (if you believed what the institute told Leo)...isn't it coincidental that Leo's wife (dolores) did the exact same thing? (supposedly)

Rachel Solando is supposed to be his interpretation of his wife. If you remember the scene in the lighthouse, the doctors explain to Andrew that his name and I believe his wife's name come out to be Rachel Solando and Teddy.

[IWasSentWest]

but -

The very, very last shot of the movie was the lighthouse. It shows the lighthouse, and the piano music that played every time there was a plot twist or something sinister about to happen. Were they going to the lighthouse with Teddy/Andrew with the lobotomy tools? It never talked about any other part of the island being a medical center where they did these things, so it could be concluded that they were going to the lighthouse to do it. He damn sure never check to see if anything was under the lighthouse

In reality -

I think the movie was intended to have two different assumptions about the ending. There are just too many loose ends for each side you can take. Maybe Scorsese or somebody will come out and tell us what was really going on

[IWasSentWest]

(Anti-He's normal, they were trying to do crazy shit at the institution) Firstly, and sadly if he was insane, the first ten min. of the movie gave away the ending. Also, how the hell do those two guys sneak into a locked down Ward C without so much as someone slowing them down? I guess the Noyce part could counter this, but still..kinda iffy. Also when he returned from the cave (where he saw Chucks body, then it was gone...also kinda says "yeh, ur nuts leo" but coulda been the drugs also) he sees some patients leaving the room with the orderlies like they were being coached to act in front of him (could be coached to help with both cases though, pro-insane or anti-insane). And when Leo said the last lines "is it better to..." this could mean what most thought, he would rather die and repent for his sin (sins, bc he thought it was his fault his kids died) than live and be a monster who had killed his wife. Another thing is the Rachel who was in the cell, her feet were not scarred one bit...if she was the REAL rachel who had escaped, her feet woulda been fucked. Lastly, why did Leo picture his wife as a blonde throughout the whole movie, but then only in that one scene his wife was the Rachel woman.

If you assume Andrew's insane, then the movie actually makes complete sense. His wife was the blonde woman the entire movie. He imagined Rachel Solando as a way to come to terms with his wife's actions. And he imagined Teddy and his wife's murderer as a way to come to terms with his actions. That's why he says the last line of the movie: to illustrate the fact that he has not reset since the previous night and that he would rather die than never reset again.



Also,
when the woman writes the "RUN" note, you will notice that as soon as she takes the pad, all the orderlies and everybody in the room seem to turn their heads at the perfect time, then turn back when she hands the pad back. As if this was planned for the role-play.

[IWasSentWest]

shit, sorry forgot this part

When they "find" rachel and she is back in her room, she is either an extremely talented actress/insane patient or she was indeed Rachel Salandro because when she started talking to Leo about him being "Jim" her husband. This part confuses the hell out of me

[flaggwalkstheline]

I just saw shutter island in the theater, damn what a film!

[cody44]

I just rented GoodFellas, but as of yet haven't watched it. I wanted to rent Taxi Driver, however they didn't have a copy in. :panic:

[cody44]

So I just watched GoodFellas and I have to say it wasn't exactly as amazing as I'd hoped it would be. I really enjoyed the beginning parts of the movie, where he is just a young nobody, however as it went along it just felt lackluster. I'll have to watch more of his films, but what I've noticed is that they are all miniature epics. They are almost all over 2 hours in length, and tell a grand story.

Oh, and GoodFellas has quite a few of the cuts where somebody will be doing something and then after the cut are no longer doing it. For example Paulie is smoking a cigar and talking with it in his mouth, and in the next scene it's completely out of his mouth.

As of so far, I've seen:

No Direction Home: Bob Dylan
The Departed
Gangs of New York
Shutter Island
Goodfellas

I'd have to claim Shutter Island as the best of them.

[Seymour_Glass]

GoodFellas is a grower. i didn't like it nearly as much as i do now the first time i saw it.

And Taxi Driver and Mean Streets are both much smaller films in scope, and I might consider those to be his two masterpieces.

Also, why haven't i seen Shutter Island?

[SynysterSaint]

That's a good question, Seymour. You should fix that ;)

[Seymour_Glass]

I know.:cry:

[turtlex]

Gosh, Goodfellas is one of my all time favorite films. I love it.

If you can find it - The King of Comedy is excellent. Not sure if it's out on DVD yet or not.

Casino was good, but I did enjoy Goodfellas more.

Personally, since I don't particularily like DiCaprio, I'm not thrilled with those Scorsese films he's in. I didn't like The Aviator and honestly through DiCarprio was horrible in that.

I loved The Color of Money and of course, Raging Bull. I still feel Raging Bull is one of his crowning achievements. The Last Waltz is my favorite "concert documentary", but that's probably because I love The Band so much.

[Seymour_Glass]

Really? i love DiCaprio and The Aviator. And have you seen After Hours?

[cody44]

Yes, I too love DiCaprio. As for GoodFellas I loved the scene where Henry Hill (Ray Liotta) has the nice new suit on and his mother says he looks like a gangster.

[IWasSentWest]

dicaprio wasn't in goodfellas...

[Still Servant]

So I just watched GoodFellas and I have to say it wasn't exactly as amazing as I'd hoped it would be. I really enjoyed the beginning parts of the movie, where he is just a young nobody, however as it went along it just felt lackluster. I'll have to watch more of his films, but what I've noticed is that they are all miniature epics. They are almost all over 2 hours in length, and tell a grand story.

Oh, and GoodFellas has quite a few of the cuts where somebody will be doing something and then after the cut are no longer doing it. For example Paulie is smoking a cigar and talking with it in his mouth, and in the next scene it's completely out of his mouth.

As of so far, I've seen:

No Direction Home: Bob Dylan
The Departed
Gangs of New York
Shutter Island
Goodfellas

I'd have to claim Shutter Island as the best of them.

Cody, take it from me, just sit back and watch movies. Don't try to catch every little mistake. I know sometimes it just come naturally, but it can really ruin a movie experience.

After having so many film/video production classes in college, I became great at finding every freakin shirt that was buttoned in one scene and then not buttoned in the next.

I can say that it easily started to ruin my movie watching experience. It was very hard to break that habit, but I've finally done it.

[cody44]

Oh, I wasn't watching for it. It was just a huge continuity error. As for the DiCaprio quote, I know he wasn't in GoodFellas, I was just claiming that I liked him as an actor. The quote about Goodfellas was a different train of thought. I guess it was kind of confusing the way I wrote it.

[IWasSentWest]

ahhh gotcha boss!

[Heather19]

So I saw The Departed last night. I really enjoyed it. I thought all the actors did a wonderful job. I honestly really really hated Matt Damon throughout that film, which I guess is a sign that he pulled off his role perfectly.

And Leo getting gunned down in that way :cry: I did not see that coming at all.

[Still Servant]

So I saw The Departed last night. I really enjoyed it. I thought all the actors did a wonderful job. I honestly really really hated Matt Damon throughout that film, which I guess is a sign that he pulled off his role perfectly.

And Leo getting gunned down in that way :cry: I did not see that coming at all.

I'm glad you enjoyed The Departed. Some people are too hard on it. I haven't seen the original, but I'm sure The Departed is still a solid film in comparison.

It's one of the better endings I've seen in a long time. The sheer sudden impact of the final act was played perfectly. It's not often I'm caught off guard.

[cody44]

Haha! I just rented Taxi Driver and I can't wait to watch it.

[Heather19]

Haha! I just rented Taxi Driver and I can't wait to watch it.

Taxi Driver is next on my list as well. Let me know how you enjoy it.



So I saw The Departed last night. I really enjoyed it. I thought all the actors did a wonderful job. I honestly really really hated Matt Damon throughout that film, which I guess is a sign that he pulled off his role perfectly.

And Leo getting gunned down in that way :cry: I did not see that coming at all.

I'm glad you enjoyed The Departed. Some people are too hard on it. I haven't seen the original, but I'm sure The Departed is still a solid film in comparison.

It's one of the better endings I've seen in a long time. The sheer sudden impact of the final act was played perfectly. It's not often I'm caught off guard.

Definitely was. It surely caught me off guard, and that doesn't happen all too often for me with films either. Also how... pretty much all the main characters are killed off in the end. It wasn't a happy ending (well aside from Matt finally getting what he deserved), and you really don't see that too much in American films. So that was kinda refreshing.

[Still Servant]

I just remembered a part of Shutter Island that kind of bothered me:

It happens early in the film when the two detectives get off the boat and are asked to give up their guns. Leo hands his over and then Mark Ruffalo fumbles with getting his off his belt. It was such blatant foreshadowing and I think they played their hand way too soon.

As soon as we see him fumble with his gun, we know he can't be a detective. A detective would know how to take his gun off his belt. He does it everyday. By showing this, it's impossible to trust his character for the rest of the film and you know something is up.

It's not a big deal, I just think they played it too soon.

[IWasSentWest]

what i thought of when i saw that was

chuck said that he worked in an office his whole Marshal career. I figured it was just a sign that Leo was going to have a guy that was a little wet behind the ears, and he would probably mess something up.

[ArtherEld]

Alright so my girlfriend and I just got back from "Shutter Island".

Now here's the thing. We talked about going to see this movie, and tended to be a little hesitant. And I kid you not, my exact words were (and I spoiler block this, because as it turns out I guess the spoiler): "I don't know. I just hope the 'surprise ending' doesn't turn out to be that he was an inmate mental patient the entire time" She agreed with me.

But we decided to give it a chance. It's Scorcese. And we've been hearing good things. And we were both thinking, "Hey, he knows this ending might be easily guessable. So he'll throw something else at us."

Instead it was that exact ending. Look, it wasn't a bad movie. For what it's worth, it was actually very good. Great dialogue. Superb acting. The visuals were fantastic. Unfortunately, for what type of movie this is, it fails. It's trying to build up to a surprise ending. A twist you'll never guess.

But... you guess it. I mean, I kept thinking throughout that entire so called surprise ending they were throwing at us, that Scorcese was going to throw something else at us. What M. Night is usually good at: Oh you thought that was the surprise ending? Uh uh, this is. Instead it's... yeah it's that ending.

I was hoping they'd throw back the curtain at the end, and there'd be swastikas everywhere and the doctors would look at each other and say, "Mission accomplished" or some crap.

My girlfriend actually had one better: keep the ending that was in the movie, but twist it even more. As in Dolores is the one who's the inmate dreaming the entire thing.

I know it was based on a book. But when has that stopped any filmmaker from changing it up a bit?

Alas, if you've never seen "Identity" or any number of movies where the surpise ending is "it was all in your head" you might be surprised by this movie's ending. If not, you might be disappointed. I'd recommend still seeing it just for the fact that it is still a good movie. Just not the OMG ending it built up for itself.

[cody44]

Yeah, but the thing I didn't see coming about the ending was not the fact that he was a patient there, but the fact that they were doing this radical experiment on him. I don't think anybody here knew they were doing the whole thing as an experiment to try and unblock his consciousness.


I just watched Taxi Driver for the first time, which I actually really loved. I think it had some very good scenes, and I especially liked that Scorcesee acted in it himself. Pretty awesome. I agree with what Tarantino has to say about the movie:

YouTube- Tarantino On Taxi Driver

[fernandito]

Cody, please be sure to mark your spoilers.

[Melike]

I have just seen Shutter Island.

Well, ending is predictable.
Still, I like the movie because of the ending. The last thing I look for in a movie to call it good, is surprising endings. That is just me.

My interpretation of the ending is exactly same with Ferny's.
''Teddy: Yeah, we are, aren't we. You know, this place makes me wonder.
Chuck: Yeah, what's that, boss?
Teddy: Which would be worse, to live as a monster or to die as a good man?''

That last sentence...

[fernandito]

You've never called me Ferny before :wub:

[Heather19]

See that's where I wish they wouldn't advertise films as having a surprise ending. Then all you do during the film is try to figure out what the twist will be.

[cody44]

Sorry Feverish, It completely slipped my mind. I do think that it was a very well done movie even if you could see the twist coming from a mile away.

[Melike]

Heather, The Village was the point where I stopped shaping my expectations according to trailers.

[Still Servant]

See that's where I wish they wouldn't advertise films as having a surprise ending. Then all you do during the film is try to figure out what the twist will be.

I agree. By touting the surprise ending, everybody starts thinking about what it's going to be. People either guess what it is, or are just disappointed because it's not something else.

For me, the thing that hurt the film the most was the release date being pushed back. This meant that the trailers would remain in theaters until the movie opened. I must have seen that trailer 2 dozen times. After awhile, you just pick up on little things.

I still enjoyed the movie though.

[ArtherEld]

The last line in the movie really did make you think and I liked the movie better for it.

Really though, I say all this stuff about the surprise endings, but someone else would have thought it predictable if they had gone another route as well. They've done quite a few of the "oh sh*t it's real" endings as well.

[cody44]

I just watched Raging Bull and I really enjoyed it. Loved watching Scorsese work his brilliance in black & white.

[Seymour_Glass]

Hey, have any of you guys seen the trailer for Hugo?

It's kind of meh, but I don't think Marty had anything to do with it, and some great movies have godawful trailers.

But, thoughts?

[Merlin1958]

Everyone knows and loves his films like "Taxi Driver, "Goodfellas" and "Raging Bull", and for very good reason, but to me his best job was "Shine a Light" about the Stones. Awesome filmography!!!

[DoctorDodge]

I still need to watch that! Me and my dad wanted to see it at the cinema, but hardly anywhere showed it, and my dad had the dvd for ages, but i've just never got round to watching it. I should sort that out, really: Scorsese and Stones go well together as much as bread and butter!

[Jean]

and No Direction Home. Let's not forget it. It's about bears' most favoritestest artists of all times

[Seymour_Glass]

Both of those are awesome.

[Garrell]

Everyone knows and loves his films like "Taxi Driver, "Goodfellas" and "Raging Bull", and for very good reason, but to me his best job was "Shine a Light" about the Stones. Awesome filmography!!!

Agree 100%, see it!!!

[fernandito]

Hey, have any of you guys seen the trailer for Hugo?

It's kind of meh, but I don't think Marty had anything to do with it, and some great movies have godawful trailers.

But, thoughts?

Saw it yesterday. Pretty underwhelming, but it is Scorsese so I'm willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.

[Seymour_Glass]

That's almost exactly what i thought. i think i aded a sigh in there.

[beam*seeker]

I loved Shine a Light but the Departed was my favorite. Yeah, I loved Taxi Driver and Goodfellas was about the most awesomest gangster flick EVAH, so it is hard to pick, but I am choosing The Departed because of all the great actors in it.

[DoctorDodge]

I thought The Departed was a great film, certainly one of the best remakes I've watched, actually. It's kinda difficult for me to decide which is better, honestly: Infernal Affairs or The Departed. That's very rare to happen, as usually the original surpasses the remake easily, but the use of great dialogue, a nice pace and well portrayed characters (even Wahlberg was good in this one) made it a great film in its own right. I need to watch that again soon, actually.

[Seymour_Glass]

The Departed has a lot of hidden depths. I've seen it maybe five or six times, and it becomes a much richer experience.

[mae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqrgxZLd_gE

[tomhank1511]

I've seen it maybe five or six times, and it becomes a much richer experience.

[Still Servant]

It's about time we got a trailer for that film. Holy shit.

[fernandito]

Andrew Garfield.

<_<

[Still Servant]

Andrew Garfield.

<_<

But... it's Scorsese!