"Mid-World" *Possible spoilers for the series*

[Wuducynn]

Something I've thought about on and off was in this book Roland mentions that "Mid-World" as one of the Greater Kingdoms of the Ancient World something along those lines. And yet throughout the series Mid-World is often talked of as another name for the world itself. What do you folk think? Is this just one King's inconsistencies or what?

[LadyHitchhiker]

Maybe it depends ... I mean with how the world has moved on, maybe it was orginally just the name of an ancient kingdom, but since the world has spread out, and time has changed, and it takes longer to get from point a.) to point b.) it has evolved into the name just of the world.

[jayson]

I think it's an inconsistency, though maybe not King's. Perhaps it's intentional on King's part to show that the characters themselves still have difficulties taking in everything that's happening being active in different worlds. The characters in the tet refer to everything that is not part of "America side" as "Mid World" even though Roland says Mid-World is just a part of All-World and not even his part of it. I can't remember if the phrase is ever used inconsistently by King in a descriptive passage or if it's just the characters that can't quite use it correctly.

[Wuducynn]

Maybe it depends ... I mean with how the world has moved on, maybe it was orginally just the name of an ancient kingdom, but since the world has spread out, and time has changed, and it takes longer to get from point a.) to point b.) it has evolved into the name just of the world.

I've thought that as a good "in-universe" explanation for it too. But I wonder if it originally just King not keeping up with his own saga.


I think it's an inconsistency, though maybe not King's. Perhaps it's intentional on King's part to show that the characters themselves still have difficulties taking in everything that's happening being active in different worlds. The characters in the tet refer to everything that is not part of "America side" as "Mid World" even though Roland says Mid-World is just a part of All-World and not even his part of it. I can't remember if the phrase is ever used inconsistently by King in a descriptive passage or if it's just the characters that can't quite use it correctly.

See I thought Gilead was considered the center or capital for lack of a better word, of Mid-World. I think I'll have to look at The Complete Concordance and see what it says about that particular part of it. If you can find the quote you're speaking of that would be cool.

[jayson]

See I thought Gilead was considered the center or capital for lack of a better word, of Mid-World. I think I'll have to look at The Complete Concordance and see what it says about that particular part of it. If you can find the quote you're speaking of that would be cool.

I doubt I could find it without a complete re-read, but I was of the opinion that Gilead was part of In-World. Mid-World was the part of the world between In-World and End-World (where the CK's castle and the Tower and Thunderclap are). Now, we could consider Gilead the capital of All-World since Arthur Eld was the King of All World, but I don't think Gilead was in Mid-World proper. Dunno. :orely:

[Wuducynn]

I doubt I could find it without a complete re-read, but I was of the opinion that Gilead was part of In-World. Mid-World was the part of the world between In-World and End-World (where the CK's castle and the Tower and Thunderclap are). Now, we could consider Gilead the capital of All-World since Arthur Eld was the King of All World, but I don't think Gilead was in Mid-World proper. Dunno. :orely:

Hmmmmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaah....now that you put it that way I'm rethunking it.

[Wuducynn]

Just read the entry on it in the Concordance and Furth says it is both a geographic designation of a specific Kingdom midway between In-World and End-World like Jayson mentioned and a general term for the whole world. She doesn't allude to an opinion whether there was an intention behind it on King's part or just how he worked it out eventually.

[LadyHitchhiker]

So you'll just have to form your own opinion? I know you're full of opinions ;)

[Wuducynn]

No, I just follow whatever you say.

[LadyHitchhiker]

You completely caught me off guard with that one. You love doing that, don't you?

[Brainslinger]

Just read the entry on it in the Concordance and Furth says it is both a geographic designation of a specific Kingdom midway between In-World and End-World like Jayson mentioned and a general term for the whole world. She doesn't allude to an opinion whether there was an intention behind it on King's part or just how he worked it out eventually.

She also add somewhere that it was originally a kingdom in Mid-World, but Roland often refers to the entire world that way. Mainly because Mid-World and it's capital Ludd, were seen as a beacon of civilisation of the Great Old Ones, and the people of Gilead were attempting to do the same.

That explanation wasn't actually given in the books themselves though, so I wonder if this is just Furth's own explanation or an explanation she gained from Stephen King. I did notice that it seems to be mainly in Wizard and Glass that the term is used in the 'total world' sense. That and the comics. From Wolves of the Calla onwards I think the term is back to the 'kingdom' meaning. Partly because they were near End-world maybe, but I wonder if on the recap King realised his mistake (if it was one) or just wanted to make things clearer.

[Wuducynn]

Just read the entry on it in the Concordance and Furth says it is both a geographic designation of a specific Kingdom midway between In-World and End-World like Jayson mentioned and a general term for the whole world. She doesn't allude to an opinion whether there was an intention behind it on King's part or just how he worked it out eventually.

She also add somewhere that it was originally a kingdom in Mid-World, but Roland often refers to the entire world that way.

That's what I said in the quote above.



That explanation wasn't actually given in the books themselves though, so I wonder if this is just Furth's own explanation or an explanation she gained from Stephen King.

I wonder the same thing.



I did notice that it seems to be mainly in Wizard and Glass that the term is used in the 'total world' sense. That and the comics. From Wolves of the Calla onwards I think the term is back to the 'kingdom' meaning. Partly because they were near End-world maybe, but I wonder if on the recap King realised his mistake (if it was one) or just wanted to make things clearer.

Hmmmm I didn't notice this. When I do my re-read soon I'll have to pay close attention.

[Whitey Appleseed]

I just finished another re-read of this story and I don't recall anything related to the first post here...seems like there may be something along those lines in another book. I kinda got the sense, like what R of G said, (is that Jayson? don't want to peek behind the curtain) a geographic location, Mid World, between two other geographic locations. If you came away with the idea that Mid World stood for the world itself, maybe if you read it in the context of where the character was when the idea happened. On W&G now, so I'll have to pay attention to what Brainslinger said.

[jayson]

Yes, Whitey, I am Jayson. Feel free to call me by that name. :)

[Whitey Appleseed]

What say, Jayson? Will do. I like the photos you include below your posts. A different world.

[jayson]

Thanks Whitey. Tom Waits is definitely a different world, that's for sure.

As to the topic at hand, I can see where it might confuse some. King wasn't exactly consistent in the use of the term Mid-World. I know, I know, King being inconsistent? It's downright shocking. :lol:

[Whitey Appleseed]

FWIW, re-reading W&G, and in chapter 3, the fair-day goose, beginning of the 2nd section,p46. pb copy with the skull in the glass globe...they're closing in on Topeka..."across the waste lands to the place where Mid-World ended..."

[Brainslinger]

FWIW, re-reading W&G, and in chapter 3, the fair-day goose, beginning of the 2nd section,p46. pb copy with the skull in the glass globe...they're closing in on Topeka..."across the waste lands to the place where Mid-World ended..."

Heh. So even in that book he uses the term in different ways.

At face value it's the ancient kingdom that is referred to in that quote. However I think it can be taken in another way too.

Minor spoilers for future books ahead:

I.e.Roland states that End world and the borderlands nearby are not his world. Some readers take that literally, but I see it simply to me, it's outside the world of his experience. He hasn't traveled all of Mid-World either (hence knowing little of the city of Ludd) but End-World is really unknown territory. Mid-World could then be taken as the world of which he is at least acquainted, a world of civilization (albeit a civilization that is falling down), and End-World the great dark (red) unknown.

[jayson]

At face value it's the ancient kingdom that is referred to in that quote. However I think it can be taken in another way too.

Minor spoilers for future books ahead:

I.e.Roland states that End world and the borderlands nearby are not his world. Some readers take that literally, but I see it simply to me, it's outside the world of his experience. He hasn't traveled all of Mid-World either (hence knowing little of the city of Ludd) but End-World is really unknown territory.

Mid-World could then be taken as the world of which he is at least acquainted, a world of civilization (albeit a civilization that is falling down), and End-World the great dark (red) unknown.

I agree completely. I don't believe...

... Roland literally meant Mid-World and End-World were enitrely other worlds than In-World. I believe they were geographically connected the further you get from Gilead, the further you get from Roland's "world".

[Darkthoughts]

See I thought Gilead was considered the center or capital for lack of a better word, of Mid-World.

I doubt I could find it without a complete re-read, but I was of the opinion that Gilead was part of In-World.

Yep, from rereading the comics and parts of the Concordance - Gilead is the In-World capital, itself within the barony of New Canaan.
Incidentally, the comics (Gunslinger Born #1) add that Arthur Eld chose the particular site to create the capital of Gilead, because the beam of the Eagle-Lion ran directly through it.