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View Full Version : Best Minor Antagonist--Nominations Closed



Jean
11-20-2008, 02:50 AM
This thread is for members to nominate characters for the Award for Best Minor Antagonist. In order for a character to be eligible for nomination they must satisfy the definition of an antagonist listed below, and they must be a character from one of Stephen King's published works, including any of his novels, novellas, and short stories. Characters from titles published under the pseudonym Richard Bachman are also eligible.

To nominate a character for this category, simply post your choice in this thread. In order for a character to be placed onto the voting ballot for the Award the nominated character must be seconded and thirded, also in this thread. This is to ensure that we do not have an overly long list of contenders for the Award, and that--by virtue of the nomination process--each character listed on the ballot is guaranteed to have at least something of a following come voting time. Please note that you MUST clearly state in your post that you are seconding or thirding a nomination for it to count. Feel free to deliberate and discuss your choices in this thread.

While you may second or third a nomination more than once, we ask that there be only one new nomination per member.

Minor Antagonist - an adversary or villain that doesn't qualify as The Antagonist (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=5851).

The distinction is not always obvious, so do not be afraid to nominate in the "wrong" category; there are always mods around who would be happy to move your nominations to where they belong.

Woofer
11-20-2008, 03:56 AM
My nomination for Harold Lauder should be moved here. Unfound seconded him.

Jean
11-20-2008, 04:09 AM
absolutely! I'll be going through these threads and moving stuff tomorrow morning (going to work now). Don't be afraid, nothing will be lost!

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

Woofer
11-20-2008, 04:12 AM
Thanks, Jean. You're the best!

<3

Tiffany
11-20-2008, 07:06 AM
I nominate Sunlight Gardner.

Jean
11-20-2008, 07:10 AM
seconded

jayson
11-20-2008, 07:34 AM
I will third Sunlight Gardener.

I nominate Nadine Cross from The Stand. I know she's been nominated in the general antagonist thread, but I feel this is more her place as I feel that RF is the main antagonist of The Stand.

Darkthoughts
11-20-2008, 07:40 AM
I'll second Nadine, fourth Sunlight Gardener and nominate Andy the robot from WOTC.

mae
11-20-2008, 07:44 AM
Andy the messenger robot (many other functions) seconded!

ManOfWesternesse
11-20-2008, 07:45 AM
I'll third Nadine, second Andy and nominate Henry Bowers.

Randall Flagg
11-20-2008, 07:45 AM
Andy (Robot) thirded.

Darkthoughts
11-20-2008, 07:46 AM
Ewwww, good one! I'll second Henry!

jayson
11-20-2008, 07:49 AM
Henry Bowers thirded. Excellent choice Brian.

Fourth, fifth or whatever Andy. I hate that bucket of bolts.

mae
11-20-2008, 08:02 AM
I'd like to nominate Craig Toomey from The Langoliers.

lophophoras
11-20-2008, 08:10 AM
Harold Lauder

Sam
11-20-2008, 08:58 AM
I think that would make Harold Lauder thirded.

I'm going to nominate Dandelo from The Dark Tower.

Heather19
11-20-2008, 03:31 PM
I'll third Nadine, second Andy and nominate Henry Bowers.

Great choice! I just came in here to nominate him as well. So I'll forth him or whatever number we're up to.

Jean
11-21-2008, 02:19 AM
So far have been nominated (the sign of plus means they have been seconded/thirded etc; color blue means the nominations have been transferred from another thread):

Nadine +
Harold Lauder +
Patrick Hockstetter
Gasher
Lloyd Henreid
Sunlight Gardner +
Andy the messenger robot +
Henry Bowers +
Craig Toomey
Dandelo

Randall Flagg
11-21-2008, 07:26 AM
Second Gasher and Lloyd Henreid

LadyHitchhiker
11-21-2008, 07:35 AM
Can I nominate Danny the Trashcan man and ask how many seconds I'm allowed to second?

Sam
11-21-2008, 02:48 PM
I third Lloyd Henreid

Jean
11-22-2008, 03:46 AM
Attention: "1" means the character hasn't been seconded yet!

Gasher 2
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 1
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 4
Craig Toomey 1
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 1

Brice
11-22-2008, 03:57 AM
I'll second Trashy.

Jean
11-22-2008, 04:03 AM
I will add it when I edit it tomorrow morning, but I am not sure he qualifies as an antagonist at all... if we had something like, "Characters we feel most sorry about", he would be one of the first nominees, I think...

ladysai
11-22-2008, 05:24 AM
I'll third Trashy and Gasher.

Jean
11-24-2008, 12:07 AM
Attention: "1" means the character hasn't been seconded yet!

Gasher 3
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 1
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 5
Craig Toomey 1
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 2
Carla Goldsmith (Frannie's mom) 1

ManOfWesternesse
11-24-2008, 01:11 AM
I 'third' the Trashcan Man.

stone, rose, unfound door
11-24-2008, 12:56 PM
Did I support Gasher already ? In case I didn't, I now do :)

Heather19
11-25-2008, 05:31 AM
I didn't even pay attention that Patrick Hocksetter had already been nominated. I just came in here to do the same thing. I'll gladly second him. He's got to be the most disturbing character King has ever written. I really had a hard time reading the chapter in It that was centered around him.

fernandito
11-25-2008, 06:22 AM
I fourth Gasher.

samantha
11-25-2008, 12:47 PM
I'll nominate the daughter of Pennywise. I still can't believe Beverly drank some of that tea!

Jean
11-25-2008, 12:51 PM
I thought it was Pennywise, in one of his shapes, no?

samantha
11-25-2008, 01:09 PM
i guess you're right Jean. I need to read the book again. I thought she was born out of his ass or something.

Empath of the White
11-25-2008, 01:39 PM
I second Patrick Hockstetter.

Jean
11-27-2008, 02:56 AM
Attention: "1" means the character hasn't been seconded yet!

Gasher 4
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 3
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 5
Craig Toomey 1
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 3
Carla Goldsmith (Frannie's mom) 1

ksmithcats
11-29-2008, 06:41 PM
Is it possible to nominate Detta Walker in this category as she was a pretty amazing antagonist throughout The Drawing of the Three?

obscurejude
11-29-2008, 06:43 PM
I'd like to nominate Greta Shaw

Jean
11-30-2008, 12:32 AM
Is it possible to nominate Detta Walker in this category as she was a pretty amazing antagonist throughout The Drawing of the Three?
I think it is.

Aaron
11-30-2008, 08:17 AM
One more week for nominations in this category.

jayson
11-30-2008, 12:25 PM
I'd like to nominate Greta Shaw

Seconded. Bitch. :)

razz
11-30-2008, 12:42 PM
I fourth Trashcan Man, he's one of my favorite Stand characters. Such and odd feller.

and you're STILL going on with the "I hate Greta Shaw" campaign? :wtf:

jayson
11-30-2008, 12:59 PM
and you're STILL going on with the "I hate Greta Shaw" campaign? :wtf:

She doesn't suck any less than she used to. If anything, she sucks more. :evil:

obscurejude
11-30-2008, 01:00 PM
Good point Jayson.

razz
11-30-2008, 01:07 PM
touche'

Brice
12-01-2008, 06:32 AM
I'd like to nominate Greta Shaw

Seconded. Bitch. :)


Thirded!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Jean
12-01-2008, 11:25 AM
Attention: "1" means the character hasn't been seconded yet!

Gasher 4
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 3
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 5
Craig Toomey 1
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 4
Carla Goldsmith (Frannie's mom) 1
Detta Walker 1

mae
12-01-2008, 11:30 AM
No love for Craig? :(

jayson
12-01-2008, 04:18 PM
Why didn't Greta Shaw make the list? She's been seconded and thirded. I know some might think it's a joke nomination, but I think the argument was made quite well awhile back that Greta had a negative effect on Jake's development. Not everyone might agree, but if enough of us do, it deserves a vote. No?

obscurejude
12-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Very much agreed Jayson. Its not just a gimmick, all the reasons are listed page after page in the Greta Shaw thread. It might be interesting to see how she scores as a minor antagonist versus a minor protagonist.

The "minor" thread was deliberate. If it was just a joke, I'd have nominated her in the major antagonist thread.

jayson
12-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Its not just a gimmick, all the reasons are listed page after page in the Greta Shaw thread.

And I think you, and some others, made very convincing arguments in that thread. If you remember, I didn't agree with you at first, but after reading your arguments I began to see Greta in a different light. I would advise others to check out that thread. It may change some minds about Greta.




It might be interesting to see how she scores as a minor antagonist versus a minor protagonist.


That to me is the most intriguing aspect.

B Rag
12-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Tick Tock Man!!!!
I think I'll fifth Gasher, too!

Brice
12-01-2008, 11:37 PM
I agree Greta should be included in the vote. She's met all requirements for it. If people disagree she won't win. She may not even win my vote over the others in the end.

The Lady of Shadows
12-01-2008, 11:50 PM
as much as i disagree with the arguments made in her thread (ryan! :P ), i do agree that greta meets the criteria set forth herein for nomination. she needs to be listed. it was a serious nomination from the person who dislikes her most, and her nomination was seconded and thirded.

so, will she be listed?

Jean
12-02-2008, 12:27 AM
ok, I will include Greta Shaw.

No, I didn't think it was a serious nomination, neither do I think so now. I think nominating her as an antagonist along with Gasher and Andy is making fun of Sai King as a writer. I will add her when I make updates tomorrow morning, though, since so many people think it should be done.

obscurejude
12-02-2008, 02:11 PM
I'll be sure to point out when I think your ideas are ridiculous in the future Jean or when I think they are making fun of Stephen King.

Aaron
12-02-2008, 03:40 PM
Now there is no need to act that way. You can make good points about your theories on Greta Shaw all day long, but it doesnt change the fact that to most people they are going to sound, in a word, ridiculous. It can be listed for voting for sure; that's not an issue. But there is certainly no reason that anyone has to be nasty about it. Opinions, assholes...all that jazz?

I mean if you have the right to say that you think she was so bad, everyone else has the right to tell you they think you're full of shit. You just have to make a better argument, which I understand you've been doing.

We need a "peace" smilie. :cowboy:

obscurejude
12-02-2008, 03:57 PM
Jean could have included her without the comments he made. The issue isn't particularly about Greta Shaw or my "ridiculous" ideas about her.

Your contention that they are ridiculous because I have a minority opinion is unfounded because the nomination was seconded and thirded. The Greta Shaw thread also attests that I'm not the only one who feels she is a minor antagonist. I was more than willing to debate her, which I was looking forwarded to. Now, not so much. You reminded me why I don't like to discuss things on here of any depth. I'll stick to video games.

I'd like to remove my nomination of her. You guys want to debate it? Have at it.

Her being nominated was an issue, Aaron. Jean refused, and then when confronted, relented, but not without saying that my opinion on the matter makes fun of King and should not be taken seriously. Again, he (as well as you) have the right to do so. I also have the right to remove myself from such discussion. Calling Jean out was not nasty, and your addressing of the situation was a little one sided, because my post was reciprocal and not initiatory.

Hannah
12-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Jean could have included her without the comments he made. The issue isn't particularly about Greta Shaw or my "ridiculous" ideas about her.

Your contention that they are ridiculous because I have a minority opinion is unfounded because the nomination was seconded and thirded. The Greta Shaw thread also attests that I'm not the only one who feels she is a minor antagonist. I was more than willing to debate her, which I was looking forwarded to. Now, not so much. You reminded me why I don't like to discuss things on here of any depth. I'll stick to video games.

I'd like to remove my nomination of her. You guys want to debate it? Have at it.

Her being nominated was an issue, Aaron. Jean refused, and then when confronted, relented, but not without saying that my opinion on the matter makes fun of King and should not be taken seriously. Again, he (as well as you) have the right to do so. I also have the right to remove myself from such discussion. Calling Jean out was not nasty, and your addressing of the situation was a little one sided, because my post was reciprocal and not initiatory.

:| Oh my. This seems like so much drama for such a little thing. Your nomination has been entered, and that's what mattered. That was the issue. We're not going to take out the nomination, especially since it was seconded and thirded. But I would appreciate if we'd remove the drama from the thread. No need to respond to my post. Thanks!

BROWNINGS CHILDE
12-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Wow, this thread took a nasty turn. Anyhow, I would like to say that I had thought of alot of great characters from the Stand for nomination here. (Harold, Trashy, Nadine, Lloyd, etc) Then I wondered if any of these characters qualify as minor antagonist, as they are all manipulated by Flagg, which kind of makes them victems. Its similar to how the characters are used in Needfull things. That being said, I wanted to say Trashcan Man anyway, just because he is such a colorful character.

Anyhow, I would like to formally nominate Eldred Jonas

Jean
12-03-2008, 02:29 AM
To begin with, I have never called Ryan's, or anyone else's, opinion "ridiculous" either here or anywhere else. I would beg not to put anything in my, or, for that matter, anybody else's mouth. That said, I have no objection to the intention expressed below:

I'll be sure to point out when I think your ideas are ridiculous in the future Jean or when I think they are making fun of Stephen King.
I believe any exposure of my (or anybody's, actually) argument as poor in logic would only benefit a discussion, providing further challenge and food for thought.

Back to the question, though: I didn't add Greta to the nominations because I sincerely believed it was a joke. I am very sorry it wasn't, because she does not qualify as an antagonist. I have read the arguments made in Greta Shaw thread, and I have to say that it is largely based on two things: overinterpretation and a joke taken a step too far. Making either of them a ground for including a character into a site-large vote would mean stretching the very concept of category definition beyond common sense. There are lots of characters we are unhappy with; by the same logic, Patrick Danville could have been called an antagonist, which he is not.

If, however, we ever nominate "characters we're unhappy with", Greta Shaw would fit there perfectly, along with, for example, Frannie (whom some people hate), Danny Torrance's mother (whom I personally consider a prime bitch) or even Susan Delgado (whether or not her role in Roland's life was beneficial is highly questionable). I don't think anybody feels like adding them to the "antagonist" list - "bitch" is, actually, not synonymous to "antagonist"; adding Greta wouldn't differ in any way, except her having a long history of inside joke here, which I do not consider an adequate reason.

Now, if we include her here (which I am going to do as I said I would), it means she would supplant some bona fide antagonists, such as, for example, Craig Toomey, Eldred Jonas, Tick Tock Man, or Dandelo (the first two of whom I am seconding, by the way), because the poll will contain only 10 items. I beg those who have seconded her to think whether or not it would be fair.

Jean
12-03-2008, 02:35 AM
Gasher 5
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 3
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 5
Craig Toomey 2
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 5
Carla Goldsmith (Frannie's mom) 1
Detta Walker 1
Greta Shaw 3
Tick Tock Man 1
Eldred Jonas 2

The Lady of Shadows
12-03-2008, 12:48 PM
third eldred jonas

second carla goldsmith (frannie's mom)

SigTauGimp
12-05-2008, 01:00 AM
I'll throw in with Eldred and Tick-Tock.

fernandito
12-05-2008, 03:22 AM
I'm 5'ng Eldred Jonas.

Jean
12-06-2008, 01:23 AM
Gasher 5
Lloyd Henreid 3
Nadine Cross 4
Harold Lauder 3
Patrick Hockstetter 3
Sunlight Gardner 4
Andy the robot 4
Henry Bowers 5
Craig Toomey 2
Dandelo 1
Trashcan man 5
Carla Goldsmith (Frannie's mom) 2
Detta Walker 1
Greta Shaw 3
Tick Tock Man 2
Eldred Jonas 5

Aaron
12-08-2008, 07:42 AM
Nominations for this category are closed.