A poll to determine King's best book

[mae]

I've given this a lot of thought, so please hear me out. Stephen King has of course written so many books, it's hard to say which one is best. Most people would say such-and-such is "one of his best," but let's see if we can determine the best once and for all.

Like I said, I've given this a lot of thought, so a poll like this would have to be done in stages. I decided upon five-year publication cycles, as that makes the most sense to me. Then we'll take the winners of those polls and have a sort of "playoff" to see which book wins in each decade, and then those finalists battle it out for the title of Stephen King's Best Book Award. It's that simple.

This will also have an ulterior motive of allowing us afterwards to rank all the books, from best to worst. This should be fun.

There should be one poll up at a time, and it should stay open for several days (3-5), after which it's closed and the winner declared and recorded. The runner-ups all also have their tallies recorded for the later ranking. Note that no non-fiction books are included, and the early Bachman books are added separately to add number to the 1970s decade to have a more even poll. Also, the Uncut Stand is not included, nor the Revised Gunslinger.

Here's how each poll would be separated. With the '70s a pretty light decade, we'll only go two rounds of four book each, and then pit the two winners together. For all the other decades, they've been further broken down into halves, so each half will face-off against each other first.

Take a look:

Round 1 - Early 1970s:

Carrie (1974)
'Salem's Lot (1975)
Rage (1977)
The Shining (1977)

Round 2 - Late 1970s:

Night Shift (1978)
The Stand (1978)
The Dead Zone (1979)
The Long Walk (1979)

Round 3a - Early 1980s:

Firestarter (1980)
Cujo (1981)
Roadwork (1981)
Different Seasons (1982)
The Gunslinger (1982)

Round 3b - Early 1980s:

The Running Man (1982)
Christine (1983)
Cycle of the Werewolf (1983)
Pet Sematary (1983)

Round 4a - Late 1980s:

The Talisman (1984)
Thinner (1984)
Skeleton Crew (1985)
It (1986)

Round 4b - Late 1980s:

Misery (1987)
The Drawing of the Three (1987)
The Eyes of the Dragon (1987)
The Tommyknockers (1987)
The Dark Half (1989)

Round 5a - Early 1990s:

Four Past Midnight (1990)
Needful Things (1991)
The Waste Lands (1991)
Dolores Claiborne (1992)

Round 5b - Early 1990s:

Gerald's Game (1992)
Nightmares & Dreamscapes (1993)
Insomnia (1994)
Rose Madder (1995)

Round 6a - Late 1990s:

Desperation (1996)
The Green Mile (1996)
The Regulators (1996)
Wizard and Glass (1997)

Round 6b - Late 1990s:

Bag of Bones (1998)
Hearts in Atlantis (1999)
Storm of the Century (1999)
The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon (1999)

Round 7a - Early 2000s:

Black House (2001)
Dreamcatcher (2001)
Everything's Eventual (2002)
From a Buick 8 (2002)

Round 7b - Early 2000s:

Wolves of the Calla (2003)
Song of Susannah (2004)
The Dark Tower (2004)

Round 8a - Late 2000s:

The Colorado Kid (2005)
Cell (2006)
Lisey's Story (2006)

Round 8b - Late 2000s:

Blaze (2007)
Duma Key (2008)
Just After Sunset (2008)


I'm not sure if it's necessary to split Round 8 up, but I didn't want to have more than five books per poll.

So. Whaddayall think? :unsure:

[razz]

sounds great. I'm game. tho it may be difficult. I probably won't be able to sleep, I'll be an emotional wreck (mood swings, laugh maniacally then burst into tears), I'll regret whatever descisions i make, my bowels will not work, etc. ut i'll go along with it. :D

[John_and_Yoko]

I personally love the idea, don't know how anyone else will feel....

However, I wouldn't feel right participating in every poll--I've only read so many works by Stephen King so far, and would only feel right voting in a poll if I'd read every nominee already, so that I wouldn't show bias due to what I'd read vs. what I hadn't. I would hope others would feel the same way, even though that might sharply reduce the number of pollsters.... Then again, the fact that you've broken everything down should increase their number....

I might participate in polls I could, though. :)



EDIT: Scratch that, I can only participate in ONE if I limit myself to that.... Round 7b. I've read all volumes of The Dark Tower.

[mae]

Yes, of course one should only participate in a poll if one's read each of the books. Hopefully we can get as many people on board as possible, because for one, it should be fun, and also, like I said at the beginning, this will allow us to actually name King's best book. And not only that, but when we take all the data at the end and sort it accordingly, we'll end up with a ranking from best to worst, which should also be fun (perhaps we'll even need tie-breaker polls, hehe).

[Girlystevedave]

I think it's a good idea, but I wonder if it should be best SK book excluding the DT. Otherwise, we will probably end up with the answer I already suspect, considering this is the DT mb. :)
In other words, I know that any section containing the DT,...I will hands down vote for The DT.

[mae]

That's a valid point; I hadn't thought of that. But I wanted to include every fiction book. However, I'm not confident a Dark Tower book will win each time. For example, in Round 6a I'd vote for The Green Mile.

[John_and_Yoko]

I think it's a good idea, but I wonder if it should be best SK book excluding the DT. Otherwise, we will probably end up with the answer I already suspect, considering this is the DT mb. :)
In other words, I know that any section containing the DT,...I will hands down vote for The DT.

I probably would too--at least, considering it as a whole, I like it the best.

But if it weren't included, I wouldn't be able to vote in ANY of the current polls (though that might change later). :(

[Girlystevedave]

I think it's a good idea, but I wonder if it should be best SK book excluding the DT. Otherwise, we will probably end up with the answer I already suspect, considering this is the DT mb. :)
In other words, I know that any section containing the DT,...I will hands down vote for The DT.

I probably would too--at least, considering it as a whole, I like it the best.

But if it weren't included, I wouldn't be able to vote in ANY of the current polls (though that might change later) VERY VERY SOON. :(


Edited that for you :)

[Ruthful]

That's an interesting observation. I liked The Drawing of the Three, but I can understand why someone would feel that Misery is a better stand-alone novel. Personally, I think Misery is one of his most well-written novels, especially when you compare it to some of his other semi-biographical works of fiction, e.g. The Dark Half, Lisey's Story, etc...

[Girlystevedave]

I think I'm too OCD to see them as stand alone. :orely:

[mae]

I think I'm too OCD to see them as stand alone. :orely:

Personally, I don't have that problem. As a novel, The Gunslinger was just so-so (perhaps it's fair to call it a short story collection). But The Drawing of the Three, as a novel, was just perfect. I'll dare say Wizard and Glass and The Wolves of the Calla also were subpar, as stand alone novels, though of course perfectly fine in the overall scheme.

[Sam]

I think this is a great idea. I think it's so great that I have already cast my vote for the first round. I would have liked to include The Stand Uncut and The Gunslinger Revised, but that is just my opinion. They are vastly different stories from their predecessors and present different pictures of the same story.

Here's my vote. If you add those two books though, I will need to make a change or two.

Round 1: The Shining

Round 2: The Stand (I wanted to vote for The Dead Zone, because I liked it better than the short version of The Stand, but since The Stand Uncut is not in the voting I chose The Stand. It is his best work in my opinion, but only uncut.)

Round 3a: Different Seasons (I actually hated The Gunslinger.)

Round 3b: Cycle of the Werewolf

Round 4a: It

Round 4b: The Eyes of the Dragon (A difficult choice as I think both EotD and DT II are well written, but EotD had my heart POUNDING as I read Flagg's ascending of The Needle.)

Round 5a: The Waste Lands (This is where I really fell in love with the DT series. It was this book and the end of it that fueled my lust for the rest of the series.)

Round 5b: Insomnia

Round 6a: The Green Mile (I hate you for this!! I LOVED Wizard and Glass. It is my favorite of all the DT series, but there is no way I can vote for anything besides The Green Mile. It held me hostage for five full months panting for the next installment, and had me crying, laughing, and reading it out to my then girlfriend (now wife). I waited for so long for W&G but as much emotion as it held and the shocks and surprises it gave, it didn't have the power, for me, that the story of John Coffey had. I wish I could live that summer over again.)

Round 6b: Bag of Bones

Round 7a: Everything's Eventual

Round 7b: The Dark Tower

Round 8a: Cell

Round 8b: Duma Key

[razz]

Oi! don't just post your votes! I want a poll! i love polls. :P

[John_and_Yoko]

I think it's a good idea, but I wonder if it should be best SK book excluding the DT. Otherwise, we will probably end up with the answer I already suspect, considering this is the DT mb. :)
In other words, I know that any section containing the DT,...I will hands down vote for The DT.

I probably would too--at least, considering it as a whole, I like it the best.

But if it weren't included, I wouldn't be able to vote in ANY of the current polls (though that might change later) VERY VERY SOON. :(


Edited that for you :)

Thanks, but it wasn't necessary. I was referring to when this round of polling ended and the next one began. I'm a fast reader, but I'm not THAT fast (and I need to be in a certain "groove", I can't force myself).

Anyway, I'm currently reading "The Mist." :)

[mae]

Sam, some of your votes actually echo mine, but I would too like to have actual polls. I did not include the Uncut Stand or the Revised Gunslinger, but you can have them in mind when voting for their first iterations.

[John_and_Yoko]

One question, though--how do you vote for collections? Those have multiple stories within them. Other than Hearts in Atlantis I can't see how you can rank those....

[mae]

One question, though--how do you vote for collections? Those have multiple stories within them. Other than Hearts in Atlantis I can't see how you can rank those....

That's a good question. This is easier with novella collections. But you can judge short story collections on their overall feeling. For me, Skeleton Crew and Four Past Midnight are two of my favorite books of King's, as whole books.

[Sam]

I actually think that, like pablo said, you have to look at the overall feel of the books. Look at the stories and see what the overall quality of the stories is. Skeleton Crew is a good book, but I liked Different Seasons better because I think that is where we really begin to see what King is capable of as a writer and not just as a horror writer.

BTW pablo, I notice that Six Stories was not included, but I assume that is because it was not released in any edition other than a limited.

I prefer the poll idea too. I'll vote in that also. :rock:

[mae]

It will actually take exactly 25 polls to do what I propose.

Take a look at this chart I just devised very quickly:


http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/3148/pollchartgr0.png

[mae]

BTW pablo, I notice that Six Stories was not included, but I assume that is because it was not released in any edition other than a limited.


Actually that's because everything in it is included in Everything's Eventual (with the exception of Blind Willie which was incorporated into Hearts in Atlantis). Same thing with other similar cases, like My Pretty Pony, for example.

[gsvec]

Maybe you do sub-polls for the stories in each collection to get the best story in each before the collections go into their respective poll. Or maybe only do your polls on novels and omit the collections like Stand Uncut and non-fiction. Or a totally separate poll for the collections. Ok, I just typed collections way too many times. :scared:

[mae]

An interesting idea on a story-by-story poll. We could do that after this, but, gsvec, the idea here is to choose King's best book overall, so collections count too.

[John_and_Yoko]

Does Storm of the Century really count? I think that's a teleplay....

[mae]

Well, it was published, so it's a book :)

[gsvec]

But so was Danse Macabre. :lol:

[Darkthoughts]

Pablo, I love this idea!

Pm a mod or manager of this area if you want to discuss setting up polls ;)

[alinda]

OH Brice , could we get a poll here please?

[Heather19]

Great idea! I'm definately on board.

[mae]

I was actually just thinking, if it'd be best if a mod or Matt would create a separate sub-forum for the polls. Then we could do everything in four stages:

Stage 1: all first fourteen polls would be posted at once (each stage will be up for a week)

Stage 2: six polls with the semifinals for 1980s, 1990s, and the 2000s

Stage 3: four polls with the finals of all four decades

Stage 4: the best book final poll

So, the entire thing will take four weeks to run. Also, I was thinking we start this on November 4th, to coincide with the Presidential Elections in the US, just for fun. So we would inaugurate King's Best Book on December 1, 2008 :)

[Darkthoughts]

I doubt you'd get a sub forum, you could stagger it like Feev has done with the "Best movie of all time" polls in the Gem Theatre.

Basically, from the first fourteen you could do seven polls one week, seven the next - then so on to the next rounds. Ask Feev for details. It's been a pretty productive way of doing it :thumbsup:

[mae]

I just don't want to flood any one forum with this poll, that's all.

[mae]

Darkthoughts, I took a look at the polls you mentioned, and I really like the idea of having more than one book advance out of each preliminary round, it seems more fair this way. So my initial polling structure could be amended to allow an additional quarterfinal that would pit the top two out of each of the first fourteen groups ("rounds" was a misnomer).

[KaLikeAWheel]

This is a GREAT idea, but it's gonna kill me to pick in some of those categories!! I had a really hard time just posting my 5 favoirte books on another thread. It'd almost be easier for me to pick which of my kids is my favorite. :D

Donna

[Aaron]

Hmm...I like this, but I think we should maybe take a bit of a different approach. I like the tiered system, because it will make it much more manageable. But if we do it in site polls we will only really have rankings based on what people thought was the best for that bracket. There is no objectivity there for the titles that didnt win the tier.

What I would propose is that instead of doing a poll, we still start a thread for each bracket and have people rank the books in the bracket instead. Give them a numeric ranking based on best to worst, then we can tally the numbers afterward and say that on average people found this book to be the worst and this to be the best, and so on. That way we can actually have accurate numbers to devise an overall ranking of the books, as opined by the members of thedarktower.org.

And I would even be willing to set up a temporary sub-forum for it if we do it this way, since we will be getting a much more accurate result, which we can then post on a site page.

[Randall Flagg]

That sounds great Aaron. So if I understnd you, people would rate a group of books on a scale (probably 0-5, or 0-10) tally up the points, divided by votes and have an average score-with the highest score advancing. I presume the thread would be open for 1 week?

[jhanic]

Would we be rating the books in relation to the other books in that category or against all of King's books? If I read it correctly, we'll be rating against the books just in the category, right?

John

[Sam]

Can I make one request? Start the poll a little later. Like maybe a week to coincide with Just After Sunset. You have JAS on the list but you want to start the poll before the book is even released. That doesn't seem fair to me. (Actually that isn't why I care, I'm going to be on vacation that entire week you want to start it. Going to meet the King baby!!)

Seriously though, you might want to rethink the timing of the poll if you want to include JAS and wait until people have a chance to read it.

[gsvec]

I like the idea of rating them, Aaron - nice refinement to pablo's great idea! And maybe somehow include choices of "Haven't read it yet" and "No desire to read it" so that we get a gauge on what our members still want/need to read? The stats we could get from this would be pretty cool. :cool:

IMO, I think we should rank the individual books based on the overall collective and not just the first round poll they end up in so that the proper ones make it to the final poll. If someone believes that two of his absolute best works are in the same first round poll, it could cause issues, no? Just a thought, but it might make it more difficult to manage this way.

And I agree with Sam on the delay, but only because I'll be away for the first two weeks of November! :lol:

[Matt]

What I would propose is that instead of doing a poll, we still start a thread for each bracket and have people rank the books in the bracket instead.I'm fine with the idea and I'm fine with a sub forum for it.

I think a poll could still be done in each of the threads for the books. Something like...

If the scale is

LOVE IT = 1

Not so much = 5

Just a 1 through 5 poll choice, might make it easier to add up the numbers. :thumbsup:

As far as where to put it, I'm not sure. :lol:

[John_and_Yoko]

What I would propose is that instead of doing a poll, we still start a thread for each bracket and have people rank the books in the bracket instead.I'm fine with the idea and I'm fine with a sub forum for it.

I think a poll could still be done in each of the threads for the books. Something like...

If the scale is

LOVE IT = 1

Not so much = 5

Just a 1 through 5 poll choice, might make it easier to add up the numbers. :thumbsup:

As far as where to put it, I'm not sure. :lol:

Ooh, but then you'd have to make sure people knew what they were voting for. I personally see "1" as low and "5" as high, and you had them be just the opposite there....

[Matt]

That's fine with me, it was just an example. :cowboy:

5= good

1= bad

Works just as well.

We could make sure the poll was clearly labeled for the range.

[Randall Flagg]

Lets wait for Aaron to clarify. It all sounds good, but it also must be elegantly simple.

[Matt]

I'm almost sure that is what he means. My only goal was not to have someone go through and tally the "1's" and "5's" that people put in posts when that could be done for us by the board.

Also give us a total voted.

[Daghain]

I think this is a brilliant idea, and clearly pablo put a TON of thought into it. :clap:

Can't wait to get this started!

[mae]

All great ideas, folks. It's cool that you all embraced this idea. I've been nursing this for a few days now, trying to formulate it, but it looks like there's been lots of valuable input here as well that just made this idea a lot better. I really like Matt's idea of combining a poll with a ranking. I'm not sure how this would work, technically speaking, since I've never done a poll here myself, but it sounds pretty definitive.

[mae]

I've modified my original poll structure. If we will have a poll in addition to a ranking, with the best two moving on, then we need an additional round.

It would look like this:


http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/725/pollchartig5.png

[Aaron]

Well, pablo, the mixing of the poll and ranking would be more organizational. I'm going to start some test threads in the staff area and see what will work best.

[mae]

Aaron, did you try those tests yet? I'm eager to know what it all looks like. Is this just for the staff or can regular members try as well?

[Brice]

The tests (currently) are just for the staff I believe, pablo.

BTW: I am curious, if it is to be the best book what is your reason for not including the nonfiction. It's cool! I'm just wondering.

[mae]

Well, it could be included, I guess. My reasoning was that they (Danse Macabre, Nightmares in the Sky, On Writing, Secret Windows, Faithful) probably would invariably end up at the bottom of any poll. But for completeness sake they could be squeezed into their respective groups, I don't see any problem with that at all.

[Brice]

Oh, I was just wondering. I agree they probably wouldn't win, but they may not be at the bottom.

[Aaron]

Okay, this is what I think we are going to have to do--and I think it will work beautifully. We will set up the "rounds" of the voting in weeks. For that week each book in the bracket will have its own thread/poll. The poll options for the thread will be a ranking of 1-5, with explanations for each number as to what it represents (good/bad, etc). At the close of the week the polls will end and the results will be tallied for each. From the polling results we will be able to devise an average score for each book and can then designate which books move on to the next round. Those that do not move on will be given a ranking based on their cumulative votes. These will not be posted in full until the end of the voting for all books, since we will use their individual scores to designate their overall ranking. This would continue each week until we are through all of the first rounds. Then we would begin the second tier of voting and so on from there.

That's my idea, based on our needs and the capabilities of the site. What does everyone think?

[Brice]

I like it. Where will it be though?

[Aaron]

A sub-forum in Path of the Beam.

[Daghain]

Brilliant!

[gsvec]

Great, Aaron! Dare we attempt a 'no point' type vote if someone's not read the book? Thinking it'd add to the stats, is all. :orely:

[Hannah]

Good idea, A-jizzle.

[gsvec]

A-jizzle? :wtf:

[Aaron]

I would do the "no point", but I think it would screw with the averages. So what I am going to propose is just that we put a line in there asking people to only vote for books that they have actually read. That way we are getting objective rankings. We then find averages for each individual book, based on the number of people who voted in its poll. That will then give us a score to use in determining whether it progresses to the next tier.

[Aaron]

A sub-forum in Path of the Beam.

Change of plans here...it would be a sub-forum in Cara Laughs. :grouphug:

[Daghain]

:clap:

[gsvec]

Wasn't thinking about it screwing up the averages, Aaron, but I agree. Guess I was hoping there was an easy way to exclude them. And Cara Laughs, it is!!

[Randall Flagg]

This is going to be great. As mentioned, people will be requested to only vote on books they have read.

[mae]

I set out the initial rounds in the first post. We can use those, but they omit the non-fiction.

Here's an updated listing we could use if we decided the non-fiction books should be part of this:

Round 1 - Early 1970s:

Carrie (1974)
'Salem's Lot (1975)
Rage (1977)
The Shining (1977)

Round 2 - Late 1970s:

Night Shift (1978)
The Stand (1978)
The Dead Zone (1979)
The Long Walk (1979)

Round 3a - Early 1980s:

Firestarter (1980)
Cujo (1981)
Roadwork (1981)
Danse Macabre (1981)
Different Seasons (1982)
The Gunslinger (1982)

Round 3b - Early 1980s:

The Running Man (1982)
Christine (1983)
Cycle of the Werewolf (1983)
Pet Sematary (1983)

Round 4a - Late 1980s:

The Talisman (1984)
Thinner (1984)
Skeleton Crew (1985)
It (1986)

Round 4b - Late 1980s:

Misery (1987)
The Drawing of the Three (1987)
The Eyes of the Dragon (1987)
The Tommyknockers (1987)
Nightmares in the Sky (1988)
The Dark Half (1989)

Round 5a - Early 1990s:

Four Past Midnight (1990)
Needful Things (1991)
The Waste Lands (1991)
Dolores Claiborne (1992)

Round 5b - Early 1990s:

Gerald's Game (1992)
Nightmares & Dreamscapes (1993)
Insomnia (1994)
Rose Madder (1995)

Round 6a - Late 1990s:

Desperation (1996)
The Green Mile (1996)
The Regulators (1996)
Wizard and Glass (1997)

Round 6b - Late 1990s:

Bag of Bones (1998)
Hearts in Atlantis (1999)
Storm of the Century (1999)
The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon (1999)

Round 7a - Early 2000s:

On Writing (2000)
Secret Windows (2000)
Black House (2001)
Dreamcatcher (2001)
Everything's Eventual (2002)

Round 7b - Early 2000s:

From a Buick 8 (2002)
Wolves of the Calla (2003)
Song of Susannah (2004)
The Dark Tower (2004)
Faithful (2004)

Round 8a - Late 2000s:

The Colorado Kid (2005)
Cell (2006)
Lisey's Story (2006)

Round 8b - Late 2000s:

Blaze (2007)
Duma Key (2008)
Just After Sunset (2008)

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

[mae]

Depending if this enterprise is a success (and I don't see why it wouldn't be), I was thinking we could do this on an annual basis, too. Could even make up a trophy, a cup of some sort, that we would bestow upon the winner, and then have this again in a year (since most likely Under the Dome will be released by then, and, knowing King, maybe even something else). If so, we should perhaps come up with a catchy name, as well.

[Daghain]

Oh, I like the idea of doing it every year! We could post the list up somewhere on the site - TDT.com's favorite SK book!

[Aaron]

You're reading my mind, pablo.

Thanks for coming up with this! I think it is an excellent idea, and we should definitely do it on an annual basis. It will be interesting to see how the tides of interest change over the years. I am trying to come up with a good name to brand it. Of course, any suggestions that members would like to post here are more than welcome. :cowboy:

[Hannah]

Depending if this enterprise is a success (and I don't see why it wouldn't be), I was thinking we could do this on an annual basis, too. Could even make up a trophy, a cup of some sort, that we would bestow upon the winner, and then have this again in a year (since most likely Under the Dome will be released by then, and, knowing King, maybe even something else). If so, we should perhaps come up with a catchy name, as well.

Great idea! :rock:

[alinda]

Love it !!:thumbsup:

[Darkthoughts]

Yep, rock on Pablo - awesome idea!!

[Sam]

GREAT idea to allow the non-fiction as they have also held some of King's better works as far as his writing goes. I'm thinking that we will find that Duma Key may very well be one of the final four. Either that or it will be narrowly beaten by one of the DT books.

[Sam]

Anyone taking odds on this list? My Final Four pick is The Stand, IT, The Green Mile, and Duma Key. Can anyone give me odds here?:clap:

[mae]

Decade-wise, I'd say those picks are close to mine, Sam.

[Randall Flagg]

Anyone taking odds on this list? My Final Four pick is The Stand, IT, The Green Mile, and Duma Key. Can anyone give me odds here?:clap:
The early line:
The Stand 3-2
The Green Mile 3-1
It 4-1
Duma Key 9-1

[Sam]

Those are good odds there Randall. I'll put 50 on Duma Key to make it to the Final Four, 40 on IT and The Stand, and 20 on The Green Mile.

[Randall Flagg]

I actually could post "either or" lines in the Casino, but I think it will be enough work (for others) to handle posting the numerous polls and tabulating the results. No sense creating work for myself.:P

[jhanic]

Those are good odds there Randall. I'll put 50 on Duma Key to make it to the Final Four, 40 on IT and The Stand, and 20 on The Green Mile.

Bag of Bones should rank up there too!

John

[Matt]

I think new level of fun could be gained from actually betting on the outcome. :cool:

[mae]

I'm not sure how Aaron wants to set up each round, I would like to see each decade posted, one at a time. Should save us on time. So if you'll look back at the chart I posted earlier, we'll have four of these rounds, after which we will declare the four winners of each decade, and then have that Final Four poll. Perhaps those four could also receive our virtual awards for being the best of their decade.

[Brice]

But would a poll ranking the best of a decade reflect the same as a series of polls pitting all of them against one another, though?

[stone, rose, unfound door]

I like the idea a lot but I'm not sure I'll be able to vote in the polls if the first round is only on for a week :( So can I give my vote right now ?

[Sam]

But would a poll ranking the best of a decade reflect the same as a series of polls pitting all of them against one another, though?

I think the theory is still sound Brice. Also it pits books that were written during the same time period of King's growth as a writer and, IMO, makes the voting even more fair since the books are pitted against books of similar styles rather than pitting something like Carrie against Duma Key. Granted that many of King's early works are still considered by many as among his best, but I think it is a fair statement that you can see his growth as a writer throughout his work.

As for if the best of a decade type of vote will end with similar results of a simple "which is the best vote", I think so. The best of each decade pitted against each other should have the same result as a "King of the Mountain free for all". Let the game begin. :P

[Matt]

Well, if that is the case. Shouldn't we divide them into some kind of "type" categories instead of decade?

I'm not sure how that could work because to me all of Kings books are basically character stories.

I'm really interested in what Pablo thinks because this was his idea, it should be ran in a way he feels comfortable with.

But to me, the best way to do it is to create a thread for each book that King has written in a sub forum. Allow people to rate it 1-5 and then crunch the numbers. This will not only give us "most loved" but also ratings for each of this books on down the line.

Good idea to discuss it though, something this cool and fun needs to be done right. :clap:

[Jean]

I think chronology is the only unambiguous ground for division

[Aaron]

Chronological order is the way that I would prefer to do it, mainly because it will just be the easiest to organize. I am going to start working on the brackets tomorrow during the day, which should be much easier since pablo has done most of the work already. I don't want to do too many at once, though, so we won't do the entire decade in one week. Instead we will break it into rounds, and can still have accurate data for the picks for the best of each decade, based on the scoring.

If possible, I would like to have this thing ready to begin by Monday the 10th.

[Randall Flagg]

Chronological order is the way that I would prefer to do it, mainly because it will just be the easiest to organize. I am going to start working on the brackets tomorrow during the day, which should be much easier since pablo has done most of the work already. I don't want to do too many at once, though, so we won't do the entire decade in one week. Instead we will break it into rounds, and can still have accurate data for the picks for the best of each decade, based on the scoring.

If possible, I would like to have this thing ready to begin by Monday the 10th.
I think that nails it! Looking forward to voting.

[mae]

Yes, I'm totally behind the way Aaron says it should work. It just so happens we have exactly sixty books to poll (see this post (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=275811&postcount=64) I made earlier). So, we can follow the poll structure I outlined before (here (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showpost.php?p=273771&postcount=46)), or we could just have the top, I dunno, half (thirty) move on, and then just dwindle it down till the top two are left standing. It could be Top 30, Top 15, Top 8, Top 4, and Top 2. It could work that way. But I'm confident however Aaron sets up the brackets will work just fine. I just want the most fair and balanced voting for each book with the mind on making sure the best book indeed wins out.

[Aaron]

The brackets are ready to go. I just have to find some time to convert my spreadsheet into a jpg I can post here. Should be able to get to it on lunch.

[mae]

Awesome, Aaron! We elected our next president, now let's elect King's best book! :panic:

[The Lady of Shadows]

somehow i think there's going to be a lot more fighting about king's best book . A LOT! :wtf:

[Aaron]

Here we go! For the competition we will be voting on two brackets per week for the first round. The high scores that move on to the second round will then go through a second voting process, which will bring us our top six for round three. Round three is the face-off round. Each book in that round will face off in polls against every other book in the round. The winner of each poll will receive a point for their win. This will determine our final results and give us our winners.

Oh, BTW...I am thinking that we will call this "The Constant Reader Awards". We will set up some other, less-involved, categories for you guys to vote on as well. Check this thread for updates. :D

http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/500/brk1lj6bl5.jpg

http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/500/brk1ed1rd0.jpg

[Randall Flagg]

Couldn't we just use the Electoral College system:P?

Edit: It looks like this could take upwards of 18 weeks.

[Aaron]

:lol:

[mae]

That's a very cool name for the award, Aaron. I say we use that.

[Aaron]

Couldn't we just use the Electoral College system:P?

Edit: It looks like this could take upwards of 18 weeks.

That's why I decided that we would do two brackets per week. That will put the first round ending after six weeks. The second and third rounds will be about a week each. So I estimate just under two months.

[Randall Flagg]

Perhaps my math is wrong.
Round 1 is 12 brackets, two per week = 6 weeks.
Round 2 is 12 brackets, two per week = 6 weeks.
Round 3 is direct competition of remaining books, (I assume 2 weeks)

Total = 14 weeks.

[Daghain]

The accountant concurs with RF's math. :lol:

But hey, this *should* take some time, right? I mean, it's King, after all.

[Hannah]

**Aaron posting**

Sorry, how I laid it out there is a bit deceptive. The winners of each bracket wont be going against each other during the second round. I know it looks that way; I should have explained.

The second round will only be one to two weeks and will consist of all of the books that progressed from the first round. Each book will be "graded" based on strength of content--things like plot, characters, the ending, etc. These scores will be combined with the overall scores that the books received in the first round. The six books with the highest scores in this round will then move on to round three.

Round three will last only one week, and will consist of a series of "face-off" polls between all of the books. Below is an example using a model of only four books, randomly chosen for the sake of illustrating the concept.

Poll 1: Carrie vs. Misery

Poll 2: Carrie vs. The Stand

Poll 3: Carrie vs. IT

Poll 4: Misery vs. The Stand

Poll 5: Misery vs. IT

Poll 6: The Stand vs. IT

The winner of each poll will be granted a point, and the breakdown of points will decide the order of the top six.

[Daghain]

Ah, I think I get it now.

Wait..what? :lol:

[Randall Flagg]

I still understand the Electoral College better.:P

[mae]

Just trust Aaron. He knows what he's doing.

[The Lady of Shadows]

hannah? does aaron know what he's doing? :unsure:


:lol:

[Randall Flagg]

Was there discussion about including/excluding The Stand Complete and Uncut (1990)?

[jayson]

Was there discussion about including/excluding The Stand Complete and Uncut (1990)?

Excellent question. I was also curious about how The Stand will be categorized in this poll.

[The Lady of Shadows]

i would think that both versions need to be included. just like both versions of the gunslinger need to be included. some people are purists and will only read the original versions. some people much, much prefer the richer, fuller, expanded editions.

(can you tell which type of person i am? :lol: )

[John_and_Yoko]

i would think that both versions need to be included. just like both versions of the gunslinger need to be included. some people are purists and will only read the original versions. some people much, much prefer the richer, fuller, expanded editions.

(can you tell which type of person i am? :lol: )

My kind. :D

[jhanic]

Funny, I like the original Gunslinger best, but I MUCH prefer the Uncut Stand.

John

[John_and_Yoko]

Funny, I like the original Gunslinger best, but I MUCH prefer the Uncut Stand.

John

I haven't read either, but I'd probably prefer the original version of The Stand....

At any rate, if I participate in this, I'll consider them the same books (the versions I've read).

[Jon]

I prefer the intact "The Stand."

[mae]

At the beginning of this thread I was talking about just this. I wanted people to vote for either version of The Stand, but the listing just be The Stand. Same with The Gunslinger. We don't want two entries for the essentially same book, as that's not fair to the others, since it gives slightly better odds to these two books.

[jayson]

We can do it however you choose, but I personally view The Gunslinger and The Gunslinger Revised as two separate entities and wouldn't rate them equally in a poll such as this. The Stand I can see taking as one because the re-publication didn't involve the addition of new material or revision of old material, it was more of a correction to the original editing process. Either way, I'm looking forward to this poll. :)

[Randall Flagg]

At the beginning of this thread I was talking about just this. I wanted people to vote for either version of The Stand, but the listing just be The Stand. Same with The Gunslinger. We don't want two entries for the essentially same book, as that's not fair to the others, since it gives slightly better odds to these two books.
I think The Revised Gunslinger is much more similar to the original Gunslinger, than The Stand Uncut is to The Stand. I think there's over 50,000 words difference.

[Daghain]

Agreed.

[jhanic]

That's supposed to about a 150,000 word difference!

John

[jayson]

I was thinking more along the lines of the difference in the intent of the revised editions. The Stand to include original material edited out of the original version, and The Gunslinger to include new material to establish consistency within the DT universe. However we do it, I think this will be a fun poll.

[Darkthoughts]

Funny, I like the original Gunslinger best, but I MUCH prefer the Uncut Stand.

John

Same here.

[jayson]

Funny, I like the original Gunslinger best, but I MUCH prefer the Uncut Stand.

John

Same here.

Me too. The uncut Stand is possibly my all time favorite. The original Gunslinger is another.

[Darkthoughts]

Y'know, I had no idea we'd have the same opinion :P :D

[jhanic]

I think that's what they mean by that saying that "Great minds think alike"!!

John

[Daghain]

I'm in that boat as well. :)

[Aaron]

For the sake of organization and, as Pablo said, keeping the odds for each book on a level playing field, there will be only one entry for The Gunslinger and The Stand. What we will ask in the thread is that when you rank the books that you rank based on the version that you most enjoyed.

I would like to get this started up later today; I just need to set up the forum for it. I am actually thinking that for the duration of the competition that I may just make it a full on forum in Keystone Rose, as opposed to a sub-forum. There is just going to be so many threads that I think that will be easier, so that I can set up further sub-forums within it to categorize things. After the event we would simply condense it all into a "read only" sub-forum in The Clearing.

Be looking for the first round of threads around mid-day MST. :shoot:

[mae]

Excellent idea, Aaron! I'm excited, can't wait to start :excited: This'll be good.

P.S.: We still need someone with good Photoshop skills to come up with a logo for our first annual TDT.com Constant Reader Awards, and the award itself. I have Photoshop, but I totally suck at it...

[Matt]

We really appreciate the idea Pablo, I think it is going to work out great.

An image would be terrific.

[Aaron]

I want to have an official logo as well, and have been mulling around some ideas for the graphics. We'll have something together soon, I hope.

[mae]

We really appreciate the idea Pablo, I think it is going to work out great.


Matt, I'm really glad everyone welcomed my idea so warmly. Especially Aaron, who perfected what I had come up with so brilliantly. Thanks be to him! I'm just happy to have contributed to one of my most favorite places on the Internet.

[Aaron]

You are very welcome, pablo. We are always looking for great new ideas to make the site a better place, and I knew this was a golden idea as soon as I saw this thread. So thank you.

The first bracket is up now. The brackets will be staggered by three day intervals, and will last a week each. So, although the current bracket's voting won't end until next Monday, the second bracket will be going up on Thursday. And so on from there.

I am going to move this thread into the main area of the new forum a little bit later--just ran out of lunchtime :(--but I'll redirect so that folks can find it.

Please feel free to comment on your choices in the individual threads, too. :nana:

[Brice]

I went ahead and got it moved, Aaron. I left a three day redirect.

[Matt]

I have also created a Marquee for the site to advertise this.

[atrum_unum]

70's- Salem's lot/The Stand

EARLY 80's- The Gunslinger/Christine

Late 80's- The Talisman/Drawing of the three

Early 90's- Needful things/nightmares and dreamscapes

late 90's- desperation/hearts in atlantis

early 2000's- everything's eventual/Dark tower

Late 2000's- cell/blaze

[mae]

atrum_unum, go into the subforum here and start voting on the first bracket! What you post here won't be counted.

[mae]

By the way, Aaron, I'm just wondering, looking at how the first polls are doing so far: what do we do when a book is tied in voting. Say, for the sake of argument, 50% voted "5" and 50% voted "4" - what then? Do we have a tie-breaker of some kind?

[Unfound One]

Pablo/Aaron - do you want people to vote if they haven't read the book?

For example - in the first bracket, I've only read 1 of the 5 books being scored. Would you prefer me to vote "haven't read" to keep the results constant or just not vote at all?

[mae]

Do vote if you've read the book, of course. You can vote "Never Read" if you like, but I don't think it's required. Unless Aaron can tell you otherwise, he's the boss.

[Matt]

I think the decision was the honor rule to not vote on books you have not read.

I'm not sure if that means the more popular books will skew the results as more people have probably read them. :orely:

[mae]

Well we're going by the percentages, I think, not total votes. So it's okay if some books get less votes. The more people vote, the more correct the results. But everyone, get out and vote!

(I'm Pablo and I approve this message.)

[Aaron]

:lol:

You can either vote for "Never Read" or decline to vote if you havent read the book. I added the option for "Never Read" so that we can get an idea of the least read books by King. I thought it would be a good chance for us to get some statistics on it.

All of the scores will be averaged down to however many decimal points it takes. In the case of ties we will first look at the number of "5"s given to the books. If one of the book received more fives then it will take the ranking above the other, and so on down the line. If every single vote is identical then we will have a face-off poll. The face-off would only decide which of the two books takes the higher ranking, and would not affect the voting as a whole.

[John_and_Yoko]

I think the decision was the honor rule to not vote on books you have not read.

I'm not sure if that means the more popular books will skew the results as more people have probably read them. :orely:

So far I've only voted on one book I haven't read (and I voted "Never Read")--Rage.

[Aaron]

I just ran some preliminary numbers and the scores are all looking nice and varied. I think this scoring system is going to end up working out great.

[mae]

Can't wait for next Monday to see how the first bracket finishes up!

[jhanic]

I'm surprised on how many comments there are for Rage. Almost twice as many as any of the other five books! I honestly thought The Shining would have more!

John

[mae]

Aaron, I know you said the 2nd bracket will go up Thursday. Could you add the schedule for the rest of the first round to the special "Bracket schedule" I created, please? If you've got that planned out, that is. Just so everyone could see when they should come back to the forum to vote for the new books.

[mae]

Just noticed that 34 people have voted for Night Shift but there are polls with 36 or 39 votes, as of right now. I'd urge anyone that has not read the book, then just vote that way, don't skip it. It's still giving us valuable data.

[John_and_Yoko]

Just noticed that 34 people have voted for Night Shift but there are polls with 36 or 39 votes, as of right now. I'd urge anyone that has not read the book, then just vote that way, don't skip it. It's still giving us valuable data.

Man, then I gotta get cracking!

:beat:

[The Lady of Shadows]

this is a brilliant fucking idea and my shell is off to pablo for coming up with it and to aaron (and whoever else) for working on it!

:clap:

[Pasiuk57]

my votes are

Carrie
The Stand
Gunslinger
Christine
It
Needful Things

[ManOfWesternesse]

my votes are

Carrie
The Stand
Gunslinger
Christine
It
Needful Things
You still need to go in the sub-forum and vote them. Votes in this thread will not count, as I understand it.

This was a great idea folks, and I think the voting system is going to prove to be very good.

[Aaron]

Aaron, I know you said the 2nd bracket will go up Thursday. Could you add the schedule for the rest of the first round to the special "Bracket schedule" I created, please? If you've got that planned out, that is. Just so everyone could see when they should come back to the forum to vote for the new books.

Yeah, I can post a dated schedule. I'll get it up sometime today.

Also, I am going to be starting a new subforum in this area today for miscellaneous categories that we are going to include in this as well. Things like--book with the best ending, worst ending, best protagonist (hero), best antagonist (villain), best supporting character, and so on.

The threads that I start today, however, will not be voting threads. Instead they will be threads to nominate contenders for each category. Once the nominees have been decided then the voting for those areas will begin.

[dufa40]

Hello all

Where do I go to vote?? I am not super literate on a PC so any help will be appreciated

Dufa40

[Matt]

If you click on the "go" button on the bottom right it will take you to the forum root.

There you will see a Sub Forum for voting, go in there and you are good to to.

[flaggwalkstheline]

my votes are

1pet sematary

2the stand (uncut version)

3apt pupil

4the regulators

5Salems lot

6the green mile

7the long walk

8the tommyknockers

9Carrie

10the shining

[Matt]

There is a subforum for voting--go ahead and post them right in there FWtL

[mae]

flaggwalkstheline, you must go to the Round 1 subforum here to vote. We're taking it five books at a time.

[Aaron]

Hey flaggwalkstheline.

To vote please visit this forum. (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/forumdisplay.php?f=171) Votes put in here will not be counted. The books are all divided into brackets of five, and you rank each book on its individual merit. The high scoring books will progress to a second round in the competition where they will be graded on specific attributes. These grades will narrow the field further to a group of the top six King books of all time. Those six books will then vie against each other in a series of face-off polls which will determine their positioning overall, including the #1 Stephen King book of all time. :)

That's the Cliff's Notes version.

I think I am going to create an explanatory thread for this today, so that newcomers have a nice clear idea of how this is all going to work. Keep your eyes peeled for it.

[The Lady of Shadows]

hey aaron? kudos on the explanatory post. makes things much clearer and i think it will generate more votes in the right way (*ahem, not naming any names here turtlesong*).

thanks! :D

[mae]

Amazingly lucid description of the process, indeed, Aaron, thanks!

I wonder if we could have, as part of the miscellaneous competition, an award for Best Book Cover. I am so enamored with the cover for Just After Sunset, I'd nominate it this minute :) I could also think of at least five more I could nominate.

[Aaron]

That's a good idea. Let's do it! :shoot:

[Matt]

I checked one of these polls that had a great turnout. 60 Votes so far!!

That's much more than we have gotten for most polls on the board. I hope we get a whole bunch for all of these.

I'm considering giving away an entry to our giveaway (on the honor system) to anyone who voted in all of these polls.

And remember: You get beam bucks for voting. :lol:

[mae]

Hopefully we could break 100 votes per.

GET OUT AND VOTE, PEOPLE!

[Aaron]

Rock the vote, people! :shoot:

[Aaron]

The polls for the first bracket have closed and the results have been tabulated.

The winners of the bracket that will be moving on to Round 2 are:

The Shining: AVG Score - 4.353846153

'Salem's Lot: AVG Score - 4.292307692

I will be closing the threads and posting the official scores later today. Bracket 3 should go up later as well.

[John_and_Yoko]

The polls for the first bracket have closed and the results have been tabulated.

The winners of the bracket that will be moving on to Round 2 are:

The Shining: AVG Score - 4.353846153

'Salem's Lot: AVG Score - 4.292307692

I will be closing the threads and posting the official scores later today. Bracket 3 should go up later as well.

Yay! I've read both! :D

[Matt]

Glad The Shining made it through for sure.

[mae]

No real surprise there, I thought that's exactly how they'd end up, one-two. It'd be interesting to see how the other three fared.

[Aaron]

I'll post the numbers in a bit. Just a little swamped today.

[mae]

Sure, Aaron. Take all the time you need. I was just wondering.

[stone, rose, unfound door]

It'll be funny to see how people vote in rank 2 since these two are real marvels ! :)

[mae]

By the way, just looking slightly ahead here, but I can't believe how gut-wrenching Bracket 5 will be. It has my favorite collection (Skeleton Crew), my favorite Dark Tower novel (DT2), and it has two uber-classics in Misery and It. As an added bonus it also contains Eyes of the Dragon. Tough one, huh? :)

[gsvec]

Wow, pablo - you're right! That one's gonna be a nail biter!!

[KaLikeAWheel]

By the way, just looking slightly ahead here, but I can't believe how gut-wrenching Bracket 5 will be. It has my favorite collection (Skeleton Crew), my favorite Dark Tower novel (DT2), and it has two uber-classics in Misery and It. As an added bonus it also contains Eyes of the Dragon. Tough one, huh? :)

Perhaps a five way tie?? It could happen! :unsure:

Donna

[mae]

Some fun demographic notes, now that Bracket 1 is over. I'm sure Aaron has more elaborate data, so this is just a quick and dirty list:

Carrie: 62 votes
'Salem's Lot: 68 votes
Rage: 62 votes
The Shining: 69 votes
Night Shift: 60 votes

That's 64 votes on average. Pretty good, I think. I would note that it's not really fair that people are still voting on some books and skipping others. Each poll says vote even if you didn't read the book, and each poll says to go vote for the other books, too. So, come on, peeps, don't skip!

[Unfound One]

This poll is making me realize how many King books I haven't read and I feel bad about it... I also wish I had about 10 more hours in each day.

I AM voting "never read" in the polls though, just to keep things even. :)

[Aaron]

I had three Never Reads for the current bracket. I need to get my shit together. :D

[Unfound One]

Ha, I think I've only been able to vote for three books so far. :lol:

[fernandito]

This poll is making me realize how many King books I haven't read and I feel bad about it... I also wish I had about 10 more hours in each day.


Ditto.

[Daghain]

So far, I don't think I have one never read.

However, I started a LOT earlier in than most of you did. As a matter of fact, I'll bet a read a good deal of King before several of you were even born. :lol:

[Jean]

ditto here...

I think I haven't read only some stories that were never included in collections, and Cycle of the Werewolf

[John_and_Yoko]

So far, I don't think I have one never read.

However, I started a LOT earlier in than most of you did. As a matter of fact, I'll bet a read a good deal of King before several of you were even born. :lol:

I started on the King THIS YEAR (unless you count the first time I read The Shining, but I was too high on Kubrick's film to appreciate it on its own terms, and "Night Surf," which is only nine pages long), and all I've read of his this year (other than re-reading The Shining) is EVERYTHING Dark Tower-related except for Desperation and The Regulators--and the latter will be remedied before the year's out.

I HAVE several other books, though, both novels (including some Bachman novels) and collections (though not nearly all of either), and intend to read them all at some point--and I've seen several movies adapted from the King's works. I therefore think I can justify calling myself a "Constant Reader," as I'm already starting to get a feel for his style, and note references to other works in his fiction.

[KaLikeAWheel]

I, too, have been reading King for a long time. I believe the first one I read immediately upon release was Firestarter in 1980. ::feels old::

Donna

[Sam]

I started reading King when I was 11 or 12 with Cycle of the Werewolf. The Dark Half was the first book I read when it was released. There are probably three of his novels I haven't read. Some of the stories I haven't read but that's because I haven't had access to them, much like many of y'all who read the mainstream stuff. The limited release stuff has gone unread by many of us. Still, I love his work.

Thanks for this Paolo and Aaron. The poll/voting is a great idea, and I'm interested in how it will turn out.

[Heather19]

How long are the appended categories going to be open for taking nominations? Also are more categories going to be added over time, or is it just the ones that have been posted already?

[Aaron]

They will be open for two weeks. And there will be more categories added once they have closed.

[Hannah]

**Aaron posting**

Sorry, I havent been online much for the past couple of days. I will have all of the new voting up today.

[mae]

Hope all is well, Aaron! I was wondering what had happened, good to hear from ya.

[Aaron]

Yeah, all is well. Just a lot going on this week. I went ahead and did all of the polls that would have went up Monday as well as those that were scheduled for today. So there are ten new ones to discuss and vote on. Bracket #7 will be up on Monday, so that we can resume the planned voting schedule.

[Aaron]

All right, the winning books are listed below. For the sake of organization, I didn't post in the threads again, so that we can keep them at the bottom of the page. The first post of each thread has been edited to include each book's final average score.


Bracket 3
Winner: Different Seasons
Runner-Up: DT1: The Gunslinger

Bracket 4
Winner: The Talisman
Runner-Up: Pet Sematary

[mae]

I just wanted to say that with the polls for brackets 5 and 6 closing later today we will have reached a sort of a milestone in the awards: the halfway point of Round 1! :rock:

[Aaron]

I have closed all of the polls and will have the full results up later. I can go ahead and say that IT was the Bracket 5 winner, and Drawing of the Three was the runner-up.