It - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[Chassit]

I have been wondering this for a bit...is there not a version of the "Turtle Poem" that is recited somewhere in the novel "It"? If so does anyone remember it?


XIX

[Frunobulax]

I cannot remember it verbatim, but I do believe there is mention of Maturin as a 'turtle of enormous girth.' I might be wrong, though.

[Steve]

No poem in "It."

[Frunobulax]

Thanks, Steve. It's been a while since I read IT.

[Steve]

Unless you count "The Turtle couldn't help us."

[Frunobulax]

Well, that's as close as it would get--and that ain't close.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Hang on - there's a section in It like a narrative mythology which talks about the turtle at the dawn of time. Its referenced here in Wikipedia (Ill mark it as a spoiler as this information is not revealed in It until towards the end, also some DT7 stuff in it too):



It apparently originated in a void containing and surrounding the Universe, a place referred to in the novel as the Macroverse. Its real name (if indeed It has one) is unknown — although at several points in the novel, It claims its true name to be Robert Gray — and is christened It by the group of children who later confront it. Likewise, its true form is never seen. Its final form in the physical realm is that of an enormous spider, but even this is an illusion. Its true form exists in a realm beyond the physical, where It refers to Itself as "the deadlights." Bill comes dangerously close to seeing the deadlights, but successfully defeats It before this happens. As such, the deadlights are never seen, and Its true form is never revealed. Coming face to face with the deadlights drives any living being instantly insane (a common H.P. Lovecraft device).

Its natural enemy is "The Turtle," another ancient Macroverse dweller who, eons ago, vomited up our Universe and possibly others while having a bout of indigestion. The Turtle shows up again in King's own series The Dark Tower. The book suggests that It, along with the Turtle, are themselves creations of a separate, omnipotent creator referred to as "the Other". As it is stated that the Turtle and It (the Spider) are eternal enemies (creation versus consumption), it is entirely possible that Pennywise is/was one of the 'Demons' that existed along the Beams, such as the creature who impregnated Susanna Dean in the Tower series; further consideration is lent to it by the name and form of the beast (as well as the constant capital 'S' in Spider, much as there is a capital 'T' in Turtle.)

It itself may also appear directly in The Dark Tower series, as 'Joe Collins' of Odd's Lane. His modus operandi, that of inciting strong emotions and feeding off of them, is similar to that of It, and when Joe Collins is exposed by Susannah, King describes his transformation as into "a psychotic clown' before Collins changes into a form that looks something like a spider. Also, Collins refers to the malfunctioning robot who maintains the area around his house as "Stuttering Bill," and we find out later that Collins ordered Bill the robot not to repair the stutter, possibly for the purpose of making his name an inside joke.

[Ruki]

this has nothing to do with the turtle but this is the only It thread here so far :)

i had a thought about pennywise when reading the second dt comic, it's a little out of nowhere and i'm probably way off but i still like the idea.

i'm curious about whether pennywise and dandelo were the half siblings of the crimson king. i remember reading somewhere that sk says they aren't the same creature, but they're so similar that i feel like they must be related somehow. the spider aspect of both of them makes me think of the crimson queen, the crimson king, and mordred. feeding off of their victim's emotions could be a trait passed down from their father.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Im not sure if theres any information that indicates they are familial, but the spider shape definitely links them closely. It could just be a species thing?

[Ruki]

i'm positive there's no info that says they're related, it's just a thought i had. if the crimson queen was the oldest of the great ones and for a while all they did was fuck and multiply i'm curious if that whole species started with her.

the only problem i have with this idea is that i really don't see dandelo as being a deadlights kinda dude.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Like me!

*HEADLIGHTS*

oh, you said deadlights :(

[Ruki]

did you just show me your tits?

[Darkthoughts]

I feel like I just walked in on something...or was it a free for all? :D
*honks at Zone*

[Frunobulax]

There's the theory that the King, Dandelo, and IT are all of the same species and that Dandelo is one of the eggs that escaped death at the feet of the Loser's Club.

[Chassit]

Thanks for the input guys...when I get a chance I'll put some of my own thoughts up on this heheh


XIX

[ZoNeSeeK]

did you just show me your tits?

Nope, but it does have something to do with enormous girth.

[Ruki]

Nope, but it does have something to do with enormous girth.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u135/smiliewhore/happy/upside.gif



There's the theory that the King, Dandelo, and IT are all of the same species and that Dandelo is one of the eggs that escaped death at the feet of the Loser's Club.
that makes more sense than my ramblings :)

so is It one of the great ones? that's the theory i'm leaning toward today, and i think that would make It the ck's uncle since the great ones are all siblings.

[Matt]

I like where this is going. The idea that they could all be "kin" somehow is very appealing to me.

[Frunobulax]

IT is one of the Great Ones--immortal, primal, and Prim-bound. The Crimson King is like this strange Prim-being that melded with the Line of Eld, which makes sense figuring how much ol' Arthur got around. And Dandelo takes the form of a clown during his death, w favourite of IT. He's also an empathic vampire, which would make it more than apparent that he's a son (if they have sexes) of IT.

[Ruki]

IT is one of the Great Ones--immortal, primal, and Prim-bound. The Crimson King is like this strange Prim-being that melded with the Line of Eld, which makes sense figuring how much ol' Arthur got around. And Dandelo takes the form of a clown during his death, w favourite of IT. He's also an empathic vampire, which would make it more than apparent that he's a son (if they have sexes) of IT.

yeah i was figuring It would have to be a great one once i started remembering more of the story. i've only gotten all the way through the book twice and the second time doesn't count because i was so distracted while listening to it.

the crimson king is the son of the crimson queen (the oldest of the great ones) and arthur eld.

and yeah, i think you're probably right about dandelo. it's the only explanation that makes sense of his nature and his knowledge of It.

[ZoNeSeeK]

How does Flagg fit in with this family do you reckon?

[Frunobulax]

Flagg is a semi-Eternal being, so he fits in as sharing some qualities of IT. He also probably knows well of Derry and its territories.

[Ruki]

apparently flagg started out as some regular farmboy in delain. i have no clue how he ended up being this big badass. he says people mistook him for maerlyn, i've wondered if maybe mearlyn was his mentor or something but i have no reason to think that. i've also wondered how the hell being raped led to him being all evil. i know it can turn ya mean but damn. could he maybe have been raped by maerlyn and somehow gotten his power through that? that's a totally stupid thought isn't it? :)

[Frunobulax]

Well, I think his rape led to his thirst for revenge.

[Ruki]

makes sense, i just wish i knew more of the story. he's such a damn mystery to me. every time i start to think i have something figured out i realize that theory doesn't work. like, at one point i was convinced he hopped from body to body, at the end of the stand he woke up in another him (a twinner in another world) but that doesn't explain him as marten being his own buddy walter in gilead or being able to be a big black bird. dammit i wanna understand it all!!!

[ZoNeSeeK]

I think he can disguise himself, with a glammer.

The being raped when he was younger is probably there to illustrate the misery he came from and how his mindset was warped.

[Frunobulax]

Well, Glammer was his calling card.

[Darkthoughts]

apparently flagg started out as some regular farmboy in delain. i have no clue how he ended up being this big badass. he says people mistook him for maerlyn, i've wondered if maybe mearlyn was his mentor or something but i have no reason to think that. i've also wondered how the hell being raped led to him being all evil.
I am seriously not paying enough attention - where do you find that out?

[Matt]

I believe it was mentioned in book 7--there was a bit of back story before the end. But I may be mistaken on that.

[Randall Flagg]

The rape is mentioned in DT#7.

He who had run away at thirteen, had been raped in the ass by another wanderer a year later and yet had somehow withstood the temptation to go crawling back home. Instead he had moved on towards his destiny.

This is written just before Mordred consumed Flagg

[Ruki]

yeah, flagg uses glammers. i just mentioned that old theory of mine because it's one example of me trying so hard to explain him to myself, something i probably shouldn't do because i think he's meant to be a bit of a mystery. i just can't help feeling like if i was paying more attention i'd have him all figured out.

okay, almost sorta back to the subject of It...
anyone else a little curious about why all the aliens in king's books attack the same area? It came in a spaceship, haven is pretty close to derry, and wasn't hole in the wall near there as well? they're all seperate events, different types of aliens. it's probably just that king writes a lot about maine, but sometimes i wonder if they're being sent there for some purpose, or drawn there by some force.

[Frunobulax]

You can say that:
-IT came in a spaceship that probably seemed like a meteor, based on the description of all IT has seen in the book.
-Haven is a defined hot spot in the SK Universe.
With those in mind, I believe somewhere it was mentioned that Derry was a level of the Tower itself. It may have been in Insomnia.

[Chassit]

Yeah, I have wondered about that Ruki..I don't have a good answer though heheh

XIX

[Darkthoughts]

Thanks for answering my question :) I've re-read all the DT books except 7 and I'd totally forgotten that part.

Fruno - I'm pretty sure it was Insomnia too!

[Ruki]

i remembered seeing that somewhere, didn't know where though. i've only been through insomnia one time, looks like i need to read it again.

[Frunobulax]

So if this Derry as a Level thing rings true, it would make sense that its more open to Prim beings. I may be wrong again, but I thought it was said that Derry was almost surrounded by the Deadlights--which would make it easy for things stuck in the Prim to cross through, especially the Red King.

[Ruki]

hey hold on :)

okay so in the fourth comic we heard about maerlyn's laughing mirror. the shards of it got into every level of the tower, infecting every world. if derry is one level of the tower that would mean every shard of the mirror that got into that level are all in that one town. that would totally explain major levels of spookiness going on right around there, in other worlds the shards wouldn't all be concentrated in one spot like that.

[Frunobulax]

And we may have our answer. Ruki, I forgot about the mirror!

[Ruki]

now i'm wondering if that might have something to do with flagg as well. it says the shards got into some people and distorted the way they see and feel things. that could explain how the need for revenge you mentioned before would turn him into a monster that wants to destroy everything good.

[Frunobulax]

Well, that makes good sense. We should write a pamphlet on this.

[Baradin]

"See the TURTLE of enormous girth!
On his shell he holds the earth.
His thought is slow but always kind;
He holds us all within his mind.
On his back all vows are made;
He sees the truth but mayn't aid.
He loves the land and loves the sea,
And even loves a child like me."

[Frunobulax]

Thass the poem.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Im going to start another thread about the Guardians of the Portals because they always interested me

[Tvmorbid]

Dandelo has always put me in mind of the Library Policeman, they seem to share similar traits as well. (Chech out 4 Past Midnight if you dont know what I'm talking about) Maybe IT and the aforementioned got it on at some point :lol:

[ZoNeSeeK]

Maybe the library policeman was the wanderer who raped flagg as a kid?

[Jean]

Maybe the library policeman was the wanderer who raped flagg as a kid?

I hope not. Or we'd have to blame everything on extraterrestrial insectile forms of life, which just doesn't seem right.

[ZoNeSeeK]

*contacts James Cameron for the movie option*

[Odetta]

OK, I'm a few days late with the Book of the Month, but let's discuss IT!
(I know we have an IT thread already, I'll merge them at the end of the month!)


Big book, BIG read... I may get crucified, but I really disliked the ending. I think it should have ended right after Pennywise is defeated and not dragged on afterwards.

comments?

[Darkthoughts]

Lots of comments!! One of my favourite King books ever! I will post more tomorrow though, I've got to go and cook tea before I slink off to the pub :D

[Odetta]

I look forward to your drunken replies, dark! ;)

[Darkthoughts]

:lol: You are in a minority!

[sarah]

I loved IT. One of my all time favorite books. I agree with you Odetta, it should have ended after Pennywise. The gang bang was just too much for me. They were 11 and I just couldn't wrap by brain around why that was so important for them to have sex with her.

Anyways, I've told this story before but here it is again.

The first time I read it was about 4 years ago. I was reading mostly at night because I had a two year old who took up my days. Anyways, about halfway through the book I happened to take Dean to the Mall to play around. They were handing out free balloons and of course I got Dean one. Later that night I was deep in read when I felt like I needed to go check on him. I went into his room and about fell on the floor. In his room floating was the red balloon from the mall.

*shiver*

[Odetta]

*shudders*

[jayson]

excellent choice for Book of the Month! I loved IT. Have only read it twice, but the last re-read was fairly recent. Count me in on the controversy bc I never really understood why all those kids had to have sex. It seemed bizarre to me. i do love the book up until that point though.

also, i've never heard sarah's story before. that's f'd up!:scared:

[educatedlady]

IT was the second King book I ever read (my first being Cycle of the Werewolf). I think I was like...8 or 9. I remember getting in trouble because I read part of it to a kid on my block and they had nightmares or something. ha.

But like everyone else has said, I have never understood the point of having the kids have sex. When I first read it I didn't really know what I was reading but when I got older I was like, WTF? It is unnecessary.

But, since it was one of my first King novels it holds a special place in my heart.

[Heather19]

It is hands down my favorite book. King did an excellent job of creating such an uneasy and creepy atmosphere throughout the book. It's the only book to really scare me.
And I agree with everyone else about the kids having sex at the end. I never understood why that was in there, it seemed kinda out place with the rest of the story to me.

[MonteGss]

IT is my favorite book, by King or anyone else. I've read it at least 8 times. It is one of three books that have ever scared me. I liked the ending and the only reason I think the kids had to have sex was because King likes writing about sex. :D
The very ending was very sad to me though. The idea that that great group of friends will forget everything all over again. That was hard for me to swallow when I was a kid reading that. Fantastic book!

[ManOfWesternesse]

Absolutely magnificent Book, and one I've read many,many times. It never loses its flavour.
The aforementioned controversial scene never bothered me too much somehow, which is kinda weird I guess. Just the fact they were all kids & all of an age, and it was Bev's idea to ....... center them all, and it saved their lives (in so far as they would have run scared & died down there otherwise - or so King would have it).
Great,great,great Book!

[obscurejude]

I think the sex was there to show the loss of innocence, a very big deal to King. That innocence is what allowed them to experience pennywise, play on his terms, and ultimately defeat him. I'm not saying that I agree with it or even appreciate it very much, but as much as we dislike the scene, it sticks in our minds, no? It was a very vivid way to portray that there lives would never be childlike again- they had defeated the embodiment of gratuitous evil.

[Jack Lee]

I loved the Lovecraftian influences. Of course they are sprinkled throughout most of King's supernatural stories.

[mia/susannah]

I have not read this book I want to but I will have to purchase It. I have saw the movie and was not very impressed. But books are always better than the movies

[obscurejude]

I have not read this book I want to but I will have to purchase It. I have saw the movie and was not very impressed. But books are always better than the movies

Milissa, that movie was pretty lame. The book was phenomenal, not just in terms of King's corpus of works, but in all of modern fiction. I think IT contains some of the most powerful characters that I've ever encountered in any work. I really think you'd enjoy it. Please don't be turned off about the scene we have been discussing. Should we mark spoilers in here?

[mia/susannah]

I have not read this book I want to but I will have to purchase It. I have saw the movie and was not very impressed. But books are always better than the movies

Milissa, that movie was pretty lame. The book was phenomenal, not just in terms of King's corpus of works, but in all of modern fiction. I think IT contains some of the most powerful characters that I've ever encountered in any work. I really think you'd enjoy it. Please don't be turned off about the scene we have been discussing. Should we mark spoilers in here?

No need for spoilers. I am very much looking forward to reading the book. I have not been dissatisfied with any of Stephen Kings books, just some of the movies, It being one of them. I have enjoyed reading what everyone has posted about the book. Makes me look forward to reading it more. Please don't use spoilers unless you really want to. :huglove:

[obscurejude]

:huglove:

[Jean]

OK, I'm a few days late with the Book of the Month, but let's discuss IT!
(I know we have an IT thread already, I'll merge them at the end of the month!)


Big book, BIG read... I may get crucified, but I really disliked the ending. I think it should have ended right after Pennywise is defeated and not dragged on afterwards.

comments?

we're not a few days late, we're right in the middle of a month - don't our months go from 19th to 19th? http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif

and I loved the ending a lot more than the anticlimatic spider denouement. I loved it how Bill beats the devil a second time, and all the rest of it... and the part which ends, "...and a block a two after that, he begins to whistle", and all the rest of it. Also, absurd as it may sound, I felt so happy for - who do you think? - the bartender, who pours Ben his drinks at the very beginning (the cartwhells, remember?). The guy was so worried and so sure he would never see Ben again - well, he will! What giant talent of storytelling must an author have to inspire in a reader such a sympathy for an episodic character and make that reader anticipate a meeting that won't even happen within a book as if it was something great waiting for him in his own real life?

[Darkthoughts]

I reread IT last year and it didn't lose any of its magic.

I didn't dislike the sex scene, although I did initially wonder what the import of it was. I think Jayson, that you hit the nail on the head by saying it represented their loss of innocence, it was the conclusion that I also came to after rereading.

King focuses in alot of his works on that coming of age transition from child to adolescent. I'm sure alot of us experienced, as children, the quandry of wanting to be "grown up" whilst at the same time wanting to remain a child forever. Theres a kind of sadness in it, we're leaving behind a world in which we are allowed to be naive and innocent, for one where we are suddenly expected to be aware and responsible. I thought the scene reflected that very strongly, the image of loss (virginity) and gain (maturity).

I wasn't entirely surprised by the scene though, as I thought it was foreshadowed by Bev's father constantly chiding her for being in danger of becoming "one of those girls" - which made Bev's actions also some kind of rebellion against her father and in itself foreshadowed that Bev would have the strength to leave her abusive relationship with her husband years later.

[JQ The Gunslinger]

IT is the very first SK book I read. I didnt have a problem with the sex scene when it came up. I didnt really think it was neccesary, but in order to escape they had to become close as possible so I can understand that.

[obscurejude]

I reread IT last year and it didn't lose any of its magic.

I didn't dislike the sex scene, although I did initially wonder what the import of it was. I think Jayson, that you hit the nail on the head by saying it represented their loss of innocence, it was the conclusion that I also came to after rereading.

King focuses in alot of his works on that coming of age transition from child to adolescent. I'm sure alot of us experienced, as children, the quandry of wanting to be "grown up" whilst at the same time wanting to remain a child forever. Theres a kind of sadness in it, we're leaving behind a world in which we are allowed to be naive and innocent, for one where we are suddenly expected to be aware and responsible. I thought the scene reflected that very strongly, the image of loss (virginity) and gain (maturity).

I wasn't entirely surprised by the scene though, as I thought it was foreshadowed by Bev's father constantly chiding her for being in danger of becoming "one of those girls" - which made Bev's actions also some kind of rebellion against her father and in itself foreshadowed that Bev would have the strength to leave her abusive relationship with her husband years later.

While Jayson and I share Khef, that was me. :)

[Darkthoughts]

Cry your pardon my dear :D

Its because we three share khef that I became confused ;) :couple:

[Brice]

The real reason for the orgy scene is they were horny.

[Darkthoughts]

You need to be chastized, you're being very mischievious today :lol:

[obscurejude]

Cry your pardon my dear :D

Its because we three share khef that I became confused ;) :couple:

No need, you're right. :couple:

[Brice]

You need to be chastized, you're being very mischievious today :lol:


Ooooh....are you gonna chastise me? :dance:

[Darkthoughts]

Where's a whip smilie when you need one?

[Brice]

Right here! ;)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/fatuhiva/zwhip.gif

[Darkthoughts]

:lol: Masochist!

[obscurejude]

:lol:

[Brice]

:lol: Masochist!

Just for you. :couple:

[obscurejude]

What is this thread about? I don't even care anymore. :lol:

[Brice]

What is this thread about? I don't even care anymore. :lol:


Last topic I remember in the thread involved Lisa and a whip. :D


Okay, seriously this is definitely among my favorite King books. And I agree with what Jayson, Lisa, and yourself said on the significance of the orgy/ending.

[Jean]

I am a little surprized

thank you very much for going back to the topic

[Odetta]

Should we mark spoilers in here?

for the record, don't worry about the spoilers... it's marked in the title so anyone who enters is entering at their own risk!

[obscurejude]

I noticed that after I responded to Sus/Mia. Thanks Odetta.

[Darkthoughts]

Another point to discuss - by the end of IT, it would appear that Maturin is dead, how does this affect the Turtle's presence in DT?

[Jean]

it it a fact that he is dead? I can only remember It saying he is, and It, of course, is a born liar, just like Walter. I may have missed something, of course.

[Darkthoughts]

I'll go and dig it out to give you a quote in a minute, but Bill (I think) flies past the turtle and its just an empty shell.

[Jean]

very probable. I gather it happened in that part of the book where all the action took place... and you know action it's the thing that bores me most in books (second only to description of nature) http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif

[Darkthoughts]

Here you go, this is what I put in the Tower Connection for IT:

It tells Bill, in the final battle in 1985, that the Turtle is dead - and as Richie goes to rescue Bill from reaching the deadlights, he senses that "there was something up ahead, some titanic corpse. The Turtle he heard Bill lamenting in his fading voice? Must be. It was only a shell, a dead husk."

[Jean]

thank you! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Darkthoughts]

No problem :couple:

I wonder though, if the spirit of the turtle lives on? The sway the skolpadda had for instance.

[Randall Flagg]

IT was the number one seller for fiction books in 1986. Released in September with a first print run of 860,000 copies, it also had the novelty of being the first SK book (The Running Man-Richard Bachman was the true first), to have a UPC bar code.
Contemporary reception:

Even before its official September publication date, critics heralded the 1138 page book as the next King bestseller. Eric Johnson at Library Journal in August 1986 said "King is a born storyteller, and It will undoubtedly be in high demand among his fans" (171). Most of the contemporary reviewers said It followed King’s formula of horror and childish fun. In a cover story on Stephen King, Time magazine reviewer Stefan Kanfer said the novel "proves once again that [King] is the indisputable King of horror, a demon fabulist who raises gooseflesh for fun and profit" (74). In addition to the requisite thrills of the novel, the most favorable praise from reviewers stemmed from the descriptions of the Losers Club, their childhood trials, and their ability to outsmart the monster. "This is the pleasure of the book—the vindication of the adolescent heroes and the destruction of their enemies" (Rose, 103). Despite this, Rose also claims King’s writing style may not be able to stand up to the task of a partially serious novel that tackles the everyday horrors of life such as bullies, abusive parents, and racism. He says "He doesn’t really have the literary strengths necessary for straight novel-writing" (103). David Gates, Newsweek book reviewer, agreed that King may not have the literary talent necessary to carry off the epic story of seven small-town losers saying "Stephen King’s apparent desire to be a literary heavy hitter weighs down his already elephantine new novel" (82). However, he too said the saving grace of King’s novel is the "simple scenes in which King evokes childhood in the 1950s" (82).

The long length of the book also gave some reviewers pause when praising the novel. Although Johnson liked the book and realized its soon-to-be realized popularity, he expressed some criticism about the book’s size. "…There is enough material in this epic for several novels and stories, and the excessive length and numerous interrelated flashbacks eventually become wearying and annoying" (171). Walter Wager of the New York Times Book Review had even harsher words to describe the novel, saying "Casting aside discipline…he has piled just about everything he could think of into this book and too much of each thing as well" (9). Although most reviewers criticized some aspect of the novel, each reviewer understood that the book would be loved by fans.
Full article (http://www3.isrl.uiuc.edu/~unsworth/courses/bestsellers/search.cgi?title=It)

The King Collectibles Catalog article (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?t=1054)

http://www.thedarktower.org/gallery/data/510/medium/It_face.jpg

[Darkthoughts]

Who needs critics!?

Thanks though Jerome, you always find really interesting articles :thumbsup:

[MonteGss]

If I ever decide to read a book based on what those critic assholes say, somebody please kill me. Good or bad review, I ignore them all. I can decide for myself whether I should read a book or not. :)

[Randall Flagg]

Readers of The Modern Library voted It #84 on the top 100 novels of all time list. The Stand at #24 was the only other King book on the list.

[MonteGss]

Interesting, thanks Jerome! I would have thought they might be further down the list though. Hmm.

[sarah]

It was the scariest book I've ever read. I was a wreck reading that every night. *shiver*

The only other King book to freak me out was that one part in The Shining

when the Topiaries started moving

[Darkthoughts]

It scared the life out of me the first time I read it, but on the reread I was prepared and noticed alot more about the story.

[MonteGss]

I had a very minor but pretty freaky experience when reading IT for the first time. I was only 12 or 13 at the time and I was already scared by the whole story.

There is a part in the story when Henry Bowers (the older) escapes from Juniper Hill and he is on the run. I don't remember exactly where he is but he is on the street and hears police sirens and he quickly hides from them. I kid you not, at the EXACT moment I read that line, a police cruiser zipped past our house, light/sirens blazing. It scared the living shit of me. I had to put the book down and stop reading for the night. :lol:


I've had one another similar experience like that during a King book but I won't share it here because that would be off-topic. :)

[Odetta]

:lol:

[obscurejude]

I was about the same age as Monte when I read IT. I remember having a dream that was so scary one night that I literally fell out of my bed.

[NeedfulKings]

Aside from the DT books, IT is my absolute fave. For me, it was the way King wrapped my childhood into all those kids. I could relate to each and every one of them. Always the outcast, yet still part of a small tet.

It just speaks to me. :)

King makes heroes out of the most unlikely people. IT is his best example!

Oh, and it scared the shit out of me and I was 35!!! :lol:

The sex scene was odd, I agree.

[MonteGss]

I was about the same age as Monte when I read IT. I remember having a dream that was so scary one night that I literally fell out of my bed.

I am friggin thankful that I never had any IT dreams...I probably would have pee'd the bed. :lol:

I did have a DT dream once recently. It was awesome! I was part of the tet. :)

[ladysai]

For me, it was the way King wrapped my childhood into all those kids. I could relate to each and every one of them. Always the outcast, yet still part of a small tet.

It just speaks to me. :)

King makes heroes out of the most unlikely people. IT is his best example!

I agree wholeheartedly!
King captured the oddities and charm of childhood beautifully in this story; and who could be more unlikely heroes than some snot nosed kids?

"The Body" is another great childhood story from King.

[Darkthoughts]

Ladysai and Needful I agree completely! The Body is one of my favourite short stories ever, not just from King's work, but any author.

[Storyslinger]

What Darkthoughts said. :thumbsup:

[tl1233]

i have to agree with everythin thats been said i thought this thread would trash it for bein too long
im rereading it right now only read grey matter the other day where a bangor hydroelectric employee sees a spider with kids in its web in the sewers sound familiar :p
i love this book as has been said one of the few books that actually draws a shiver out of me mostly in the derry interludes where in the middle of a story mike will ask aboot the clown and they always say somethin that gets ma blood runnin cold
i liked the lovecraft influences eg nobody can see it or believe them,henrys hair goin white and the fact hes been drove insane
always wonder if it would be an old one a alien from an another dimension that falls to earth b4 man

[glm]

henrys hair goin white
That only happened in the movie.

[ladysai]

henrys hair goin white
That only happened in the movie.

Really?
Hm. I am misremembering.
It's been ages since I read this one.
Time to reread. :D

[Archangel(tjk)]

So here is a new twist, what does everybody think about the CK declaring himself the eater of worlds in Long Road home series. What are we to assume out of that? Is PennyWise the CK on the Derry level of the tower?

[theBeamisHome]

It was the scariest book I've ever read. I was a wreck reading that every night. *shiver*

The only other King book to freak me out was that one part in The Shining

when the Topiaries started moving

That scared me too!!! I was terrified..

I JUST finished reading It like 5 mins ago and it didn't scare me as much as it made me want to throw up sometimes. I wasn't bothered by the kids having sex either... Bev knew that they had to do it to bring them all back together. I liked the story very much and I was even surprised that they killed It. I thought for sure that Ben would have missed one of the eggs or something :panic: It also makes me happy to think that Ben and Bev will finally be together like they should since he loved her best and the longest.

I was shocked at all the things in this story that related to other King stories.. Pennywise sent Christine to come pick Henry up and take him to the Derry Home...

I also thought it ended where it should of. It wouldn't be nice to think that Audra stayed catatonic forever... even though she shouldn't have came I liked her cuz she loved Bill so much... I can't express my relief at Tom dying without even a whole lot of drama.. we just come upon him in the lair lying in a hump... and honestly I think it was a relief to Eddie to have died. I think he was the only one of the ka-tet (if you'll allow) that could not have gone on and been happy. The life that he was living at home was a kind of hell that he hadn't been able to pull himself out of. May sound a lil insensitive but I think he died satisfied. And Jake says that's all we need right?

So overall I was more than satisfied with the book. Worlds better than the movie... Anyone think that Other was supposed to be Sai King Himself?

[Archangel(tjk)]

I was even surprised that they killed It.
Don't be to sure of that. In DreamCatcher, the main character(while possessed by Mr. Gray, maybe the same kind of Gray of Robert Gray fame from IT) pass the remains of the Derry Standpipe, where they see a monument erected by the Losers Club to the all the children that died. But it has been vandalized with the words "PennyWise Lives!!"
So.....is PennyWise really dead???

[theBeamisHome]

errmmmmm... i'd forgotten about that, but also.... the Losers didn't erect a monument in It.. they just went off and forgot about each other, but idk.. and I wondered about Ister Gay too in Dreamcatcher, but he seemed like he was really an alien... maybe it's on another level of the Tower?

[ZGDK]

IT was awesome. I have no problems with the sex scene but I don't get it. Was it to show that they are all unified? The climax dragged on to much for me. I just wanted to get to the final battle. Otherwise awesome story.

[Archangel(tjk)]

You know I always found it interesting that the monument isn't talked about in IT. Could it be that PennyWise himself put it there? or Mike did and just didnt remember it?
If you remember right IT is an alien as well. IT comes from outerspace or rather the Prim, but there is nothing in Dreamcatcher that would say the aliens in there are not from the Prim also

[ZGDK]

I really think Dreamcatcher should be considered connected to the Tower.

[theBeamisHome]

I guess I just didn't consider It an alien in the same sense as the ones in Dreamcatcher.. it said that It came from outerspace, but It was something that was there in the beginning.. before the universe began right? Because there was It and the Turtle and the Turtle sicked up the universe. and when Richie and Mike had the vision they saw that It didn't really come in a spaceship... I got the idea that It sort of came through a thinny, but I'm not sure that's right either. But I agree that It is from the Prim.. but in that I thought that It was the only of Its kind...

[ZGDK]

I guess I just didn't consider It an alien in the same sense as the ones in Dreamcatcher.. it said that It came from outerspace, but It was something that was there in the beginning.. before the universe began right? Because there was It and the Turtle and the Turtle sicked up the universe. and when Richie and Mike had the vision they saw that It didn't really come in a spaceship... I got the idea that It sort of came through a thinny, but I'm not sure that's right either. But I agree that It is from the Prim.. but in that I thought that It was the only of Its kind...

BUT remember the part when it says IT is of a dying race? What's this dying race?

[theBeamisHome]

ooooo forgot that part... that would explain why it even had eggs.. that bothered me... but at the same time It suggested that It believed Itself to be alone... that's why it was so afraid of some Other. something else suggested that It may not have died.. when Mike wrote how the Chief Rademacher died.. but then again Derry started to die... which lead me to believe that It was the reason that Derry thrived the way it did...

Epiphany! What if It is more than one you know? Like the Grays in Dreamcatcher and Robert Gray (which is not feminine at all) all share one mind, but can use different bodies and stuff.. like the aliens in Star Trek.. (my bf will be so impressed that i remembered sort of)... It is one but also many... make sense?

[Archangel(tjk)]

I hate to say this for risk of a spoiler from the Long Road Home Comics so I will spoiler alert it.The Crimson King introduces himself as the Eater of Worlds This would definitely add an element to the story as IT is not alone his dying race is the same as the CK.

[theBeamisHome]

mmhmmm.... could It maybe be the CK on a balcony of the Tower?? (haha i find that funny since CK was marooned on a balcony) i've just heard that the balconies are supposed to be other alternates...

[ZGDK]

Big question: What race is The Crimson King and It? My belif is that the Great Old Ones or the were-spiders evolved from human beings but what about CK? He's a shapeshifter. So what is he?

[jayson]

Big question: What race is The Crimson King and It? My belif is that the Great Old Ones or the were-spiders evolved from human beings but what about CK? He's a shapeshifter. So what is he?

he's the descendant of a were-spider [The Crimson Queen] and a human [Arthur Eld]

[Darkthoughts]

Also, Pennywise, Rose Madder and Perse appear to all be of the same race as the CK and CQ.

[theBeamisHome]

I might be opening myself up for this one but who is Perse?

[jayson]

Perse is from Duma Key

[theBeamisHome]

ohhhh... haven't gotten to that one yet. i had it scheduled after the Stand..

[Darkthoughts]

Its cool - you'll enjoy it :thumbsup:

[MonteGss]

It is really great to be enjoying this story again via my audiobook. I almost wish I was reading it at the same time. I love this book and the Loser's Club are an awesome little tet. :)

[Darkthoughts]

Who narrates the audio?

[MonteGss]

A guy named Chuck Benson.
I'm not exactly proud to say it isn't really a "legal" audiobook. It was recorded in Japan. I do not believe IT has an audio version, officially.

[Darkthoughts]

How very bizarre! We won't judge you...well, not about that anyway :P

[MonteGss]

S'cool. The quality isn't the greatest but the story is as cool as it always was. He does a pretty good job with the narration. :)

[obscurejude]

The version that Monte is listening to is actually read by me. :D I asked him to use an alias, but he fucking picked, "Chuck Benson." Where the hell did that come from?

[MonteGss]

I just picture you as a "Chuck" is all.

[obscurejude]

:lol:

[Matticus-Finch]

The best book EVER!

The ending was very sad...had some tearage in the eye. Powerful stuff.
Yeah, I think the only reason the sex part was in there was because he likes to write about it!

Brilliant storymaking...it really was a landmark in literature. My favorite part was the June of 1958 section.

[Matticus-Finch]

By the way, I LOVE Elliott Smith man. Have you been to the memorial? My wife and I gave our son the middle name Elliott in his honor. Beautiful musician.

[BevMarsh83]

IT is one of my fave SK books, it was the first one that i read so it holds a special place in my heart :) I must have been around 12 when I read it for the first time, and it's had quite a few reads since!

I think what I love most is the characters, how SK describes them is just amazing, you actually feel like you've always known them. I guess I was around the same age as the losers when i read it aswell...and could identify with them

I think i actually fell in love with Stuttering Bill....:blush: suppose it was a bit obvious with my username!!

Plus it still scares the shit outta me

[Matticus-Finch]

Me too...picturing Pennywise on the frozen ice when Ben was walking home by himself and he sees him........*goosebumps*

And Stuttering Bill is the man - The Ritual of Chud...wow.

[BevMarsh83]

Me too...picturing Pennywise on the frozen ice when Ben was walking home by himself and he sees him........*goosebumps*

And Stuttering Bill is the man - The Ritual of Chud...wow.

OMG yeah! That has gotta be one of the scariest moments :scared:

[MonteGss]

I just finished the smoke-out scene where Richie and Mike witness the coming of IT. This is the first time I've read IT since finishing the DT series...now there isn't a whole lot of description for that scene but I couldn't help but thinking about a tear in existence or portal/doorway that IT came through. A very Tower-esque sort of arrival...

[JQ The Gunslinger]

This book was the very first Sk I read. Its such an amazing piece of writing. I just wish the movie didnt suck

[stone, rose, unfound door]

The amazing thing about IT is that it has the character that gave me the creeps the most and that is... Patrick Hockstetter. He's just the kind of guy that I imagine perfectly and makes me both want to puke and makes me itch at the same time. Even thinking about him makes me want to go and take a shower because he's just too disgusting to bear. I've never felt this way for any other character in any book, so that was really well done by King!
I guess the book could have ended after Pennywise was defeated, but that would have left some questions unanswered, like: what of Bill's wife? Will she ever become sane again? Even if I didn't care about her in the book, I still hoped she'd go back to normal, because she should never have taken part in the story in the first place since the heroes were chosen to defeat Pennywise. So I guess I felt sorry for her and I thought it was unfair, although I never liked Bill and she was his.

[The Lady of Shadows]

The amazing thing about IT is that it has the character that gave me the creeps the most and that is... Patrick Hockstetter. He's just the kind of guy that I imagine perfectly and makes me both want to puke and makes me itch at the same time. Even thinking about him makes me want to go and take a shower because he's just too disgusting to bear. I've never felt this way for any other character in any book, so that was really well done by King!
I guess the book could have ended after Pennywise was defeated, but that would have left some questions unanswered, like: what of Bill's wife? Will she ever become sane again? Even if I didn't care about her in the book, I still hoped she'd go back to normal, because she should never have taken part in the story in the first place since the heroes were chosen to defeat Pennywise. So I guess I felt sorry for her and I thought it was unfair, although I never liked Bill and she was his.


now this is very interesting. what exactly didn't you like about bill? can you articulate it or is it just a kind of visceral feeling.

like the way i feel about patrick hockstetter. (and i understand your reaction to him PERFECTLY.) he was the perfect sociopath. and the way he reacted when IT killed him - thinking that he couldn't die because he was the only person who was real and if he died the world would end. his whole part in the book made me feel - tainted.

anyway. back to the bill thing. can you be more specific?

[Empath of the White]

I found Patrick to be one of the scarier elements of the story. Henry Bowers was right up there, what with killing his old man. I actually felt a bit sorry for him early on, due to the beliefs his father instilled in him. You know, that lead to him killing Mike's dog.

[razz]

with monsters like Bowers, who needs a demonic bug-clown-alien-fifth dimension-thing?

[Unfound One]

I just finished IT about ten minutes ago.

It was incredible. Absofuckinglutely incredible. :clap:

I was amazed that in one book I could become so attached to the characters - as it was drawing to a close I had a similar feeling to the one I had when finishing DT for the first time. Lots of tears, and it can't be over! I never want it to end. They can't forget - there's so much to remember!

The sex scene wasn't even controversial in my mind at all... Bev knew that was the one way to bring them all together and keep them calm. And yes, I definitely saw it as a loss of innocence. Patrick was perfect, I agree with that as well. Perfectly creepy, and his demise and the thoughts going through his head was so haunting. Yikes. It really is heartbreaking though. The re-forgetting. Did Eddie have asthma or chronic headaches? What were their last names? Ahh it's so sad.
But at the same time, it's what has to happen, isn't it? To keep them sane.
I just wish their sanity wasn't at the expense of such good friendships.

Also, I was surprised that it ended on a "good" note - I thought for sure there would be an egg-sac left over... I did appreciate the reference at the end though, that life is a wheel.

I do have one question though - both IT and Insomnia take place in Derry. Is the whole city re-built between 1985 and 1994 when Insomnia was written/takes place? Or could they be Derrys on different levels of the Tower?

[theBeamisHome]

i thought it was gonna end with another egg sac being left too SJ.
the forgetting made me really sad.
and Patrick was truly frightening.... :scared:

[Heather19]

I do have one question though - both IT and Insomnia take place in Derry. Is the whole city re-built between 1985 and 1994 when Insomnia was written/takes place? Or could they be Derrys on different levels of the Tower?

Glad you enjoyed it SJ. It's one of the few books where I too became so attached to the characters and didn't want it to end.

As for your question, don't quote me on this because it's been ages since I read Insomnia, and I read it years before It, but I believe there's references in there about the disaster that took place in It, and that there are still signs throughout the town showing that there was previously an explosion.

[Darkthoughts]

I personally think most King stories take place on the same level of the Tower. The Castle Rock stories, the Derry ones, etc.

I don't think its overly stretching the imagination to have a rebuild within 9 years - plus, its mainly the downtown area that collapses, not the entire town :thumbsup:

[Unfound One]

Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks friends! :)

[Darkthoughts]

De nada :couple:

[The Lady of Shadows]

they would have to take place on the same level of the tower wouldn't they? there's almost always some mention of another book in the one you're reading. in order for that to happen, the would either have to be travelling between the levels or existing on the same level.

i think they are all on the same level. just my opinion though.

[Darkthoughts]

Yeah, I think any books that cross over levels make it reasonably obvious, like The Talisman for example.
To me, the main reason I think most of King's stories exist on the same level, is that the level they are on is King's level - his imagination. I imagine any fiction writer who has a series or continues a theme, creates their own level by doing so also.

[Archangel(tjk)]

- I thought for sure there would be an egg-sac left over... I did appreciate the reference at the end though, that life is a wheel.


I wouldn't be so sure that there was not an egg sac left over. Remember back to DreamCatcher, where the statue next to the standpipe, that is dedicated to all the murdered children, from the losers club, has graffiti on it that states "Penny Wise lives"
and Mr. Gray (possibly of Bob Gray fame) asks "who is Penny Wise"

[jhanic]

You'll read a number of references regarding the flood, etc. in Insomnia.

John

[Unfound One]

Ah, and I'm sure I did. I read it a couple of months ago - sure shows my attention to detail. :rolleyes:
I'll definitely keep a closer eye out for that on further re-reads.

[bluelph24]

http://www.uclick.com/feature/08/08/10/lio080810.gif


this is from yesturdays's sunday paper, i wanted to post it yesturday but the site was down. I'm not sure if this belongs here, mod if you think it doesn't feel free to move it.


PS - that's definitly a depiction of me in the comic. Sharing my fav book with all the other kiddies. lol

[sarah]

lol. that is so great. Thanks for posting

[jhanic]

I love it!

John

[Odetta]

:lol:

[razz]

that's kinda me. I liked Lio. they only had it in our newspaper for abotu a month earlier this year. i guess someone didin't liek it or something :(

[Matt]

Thanks for posting that, really funny. :lol:

[kirin]

:D

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Haha thats good comedy

[The Lady of Shadows]

:rofl:

[Brice]

That's just awesome! :D

[Bluenose]

There's a girl in my work absolutely shit scared of clowns - wont go and see The Dark Knight cos of The Joker's appearance, hates the the sight, the thought, everything about them.

You want to take a guess what book she borrowed off me to take on holidays?

Yeep...IT.

I am not responsible for her nightmares!

[theBeamisHome]

:lol:

[The Lady of Shadows]

There's a girl in my work absolutely shit scared of clowns - wont go and see The Dark Knight cos of The Joker's appearance, hates the the sight, the thought, everything about them.

You want to take a guess what book she borrowed off me to take on holidays?

Yeep...IT.

I am not responsible for her nightmares!

::snickersnort::

is she stupid or just insane? doesn't she know about pennywise?

[Bluenose]

there are somethings about your colleagues that you are better off not knowing....

[theBeamisHome]

maybe she's a masochist...

[Bluenose]

She's back on Tuesday, I'll let you know.

I'm still prepared to bet she didnt read it

[Bluenose]

For those of you still wondering about my work colleagues mental state....

she didnt read It.

Maybe its for the best....

[jhanic]

Did she say WHY she didn't read it?

John

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Because she seen the cover and did this twice :panic: while danceing in a pen of pandas without her proper panda claw medallion

[jhanic]

:rofl:

John

[Míchéal]

I just finished IT for the first time... AMAZING!!!

except the damn forgetting... :(

[JQ The Gunslinger]

I liked that part actually. It was really touching.

[Jean]

yes, if it was used by Mr.King only in It, it would have been... but it is greatly overused

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Such as?

[MonteGss]

The final forgetting when they are adults was very sad to me, I was not a fan...even though I thought it was appropriate and right.

[Jean]

Such as?
Don't want to spoil anything, but Mr.King likes this device, and while it seems absolutely genuine in It and rather plausible, although expected and recognizable, so nothing like a discovery, elsewhere (TDT, Black House, Insomnia...), I am afraid there's one recent book of his where it reaches the scale of a wicked self-parody.

[Hornet of Death]

I can only saw one thing about it: My favourite King book ever!

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Oh yea Insomnia. I suppose u can count that. But it didnt end completely like that such as IT. As we kno the ending was where Ralph keeps his deal.

[Elle216]

Ahh, “It” my all time favorite book, I’ve read my copy so many times that now parts of it have fallen apart. I read it for the first time when I was 14 and ten years later it is still as good, I get very nostalgic every time I get to the end, and especially when I read the last lines, there is such a sense of loss that sometimes it’s overwhelming and still I can’t help but read it.

[sarah]

ah yes, IT. One of the best books ever written. So good and I've never looked at balloons the same since.

[Elle216]

It is so good that I still don't trust anyone named Henry and I don't go anywhere near storm drains,ever.

[John_and_Yoko]

What I love about IT is that, while a horror novel, what interests me is not so much the monster (although I DO find Pennywise rather intriguing....) as the group dynamic between the Losers (as well as their individual personalities), and the mythological aspect to the story (the one element I really wish the TV miniseries could have had--the latter was surprisingly good, though I'd still like to see the remake).

In other words, it felt more like a mythological epic that happened to center around a monster than it did a Gothic-type horror novel. Much as I enjoyed the TV miniseries, that element wasn't in it....

[The Lady of Shadows]

::sobbing incoherently::

my first/first of IT is ruined. i think i read it to death (either that or it just didn't like moving eight years ago and has been plotting IT's own suicide ever since). this last re-read the binding fell apart. IT's all broken and dead now.

:scared: do you think when that happens to books the things inside the books can get out? :scared:

i'm now on the hunt for a "new" first/first of IT. f'n ebay has nothing worthwhile.

::leaves sobbing incoherently::

[bangoskank1]

actually ..Penny wise was the first clown tattoo I got on my left arm...it has since been sleeved with clowns...

[bangoskank1]

didja know that IT was the book that was blown up on Sai Kings lawn??...talk about your complements.

[Heather19]

didja know that IT was the book that was blown up on Sai Kings lawn??...talk about your complements.

I hadn't heard that, what happened?

[Poisonbat]

didja know that IT was the book that was blown up on Sai Kings lawn??...talk about your complements.

Please do tell, I have never heard of this. My copy of IT has been read to tatters too. The only part of IT that I did not like, was[/SPOILER][that they left Eddie in the sewer to rot/SPOILER] Other than that, it is in my top two favorites with Insomnia coming in first.:)

[jhanic]

My paperback reading copy of It has also been read to tatters. I just yesterday won a relatively inexpensive hardcover copy on eBay to replace it.

John

[The Lady of Shadows]

poor IT. i'll have to give it a proper burial. but no one has answered my question. when books do that do you think what's inside of them can get out? should i be on the lookout for pennywise? :unsure: :lol:

i'm seriously considering buying cheap paperbacks of all the books. of course, i mean all the books except a certain one. that way, i can read the paperbacks and mark them up (okay, still not sure i can do that - maybe if i think of them like textbooks) and not hurt my firsts.

oh, and poisonbat. this is a spoilers thread so you don't have to try and mark your spoilers. :)

[Jackie]

Well IT is definitly my all time favorite book by Stephen King. I absolutly LOVE it and could live with reading it over and over again if it was the only existing book on Earth. I always seem to be thinking about it, and always seem to want to read it. [Although I have yet to actually reread it, as it is very lengthy, and i have many other books on my reading list] Yes it is a very long read, but a very GOOD read. Personally i think it's worth every page. The ending was dragged on a bit, but i did like it. If he had just ended it at the defeat of pennywise there would have been many questions left unanswered and probably quite a few displeased readers.

[jhanic]

I'm currently in my umpteenth rereading of it--I'm about 3/5 of the way through it so far. I DO really enjoy this work. The way the characters, both as children and adults, are drawn are masterpieces. And the bad guys (Henry and crew) are REALLY bad!

John

[John_and_Yoko]

Um...is the other "IT" thread gone...?

:scared:

[Gasher80]

this is probably my favorite King book. so scary. also, i really liked the balance/structure of the book. he handled both their childhood and adulthood battles with IT in an almost seamless way.

it's been a while since i've read it but two scary parts that stick out for me was when ben was walking on the bridge and he couldn't stop looking at the balloon and pennywise was getting closer...and closer

and the other one was during Mike Hanlon's telling of the story his father told him on his deathbed - about the all-black bar and what happened there and about how Pennywise was this fucking bird that - well here's an excerpt:
I leaned over to kiss him goodbye . . . and instead heard myself whisper, 'What did you see?'
His eyes, which were now slipping shut, barely turned toward the sound of my voice. He might have known it was me, or he might have believed he was hearing the voice of his own thoughts. 'Hunk?'
'The thing you saw,' I whispered. I didn't want to hear, but I had to hear. I was both hot and cold, my eyes burning, my hands freezing. But I had to hear. As I suppose Lot's wife had to turn back and look at the destruction of Sodom.
'Twas a bird,' he said. 'Right over the last of those runnin men. A hawk, maybe. What they call a kestrel. But it was big. Never told no one. Would have been locked up. That bird was maybe sixty feet from wingtip to wingtip. It was the size of a Japanese Zero. But I seen . . . seen its eyes . . . and I think . . . it seen me . . . '
His head slipped over to the side, toward the window, where the dark was coming.
'It swooped down and grabbed that last man up. Got him right by the sheet, it did xxxand I heard that bird's wings . . . The sound was like fire . . . and it hovered . . . and I thought, Birds can't hover . . . but this one could, because . because . . . '
He fell silent.
'Why, Daddy?' I whispered. 'Why could it hover?'
'It didn't hover,' he said.
I sat there in silence, thinking he had gone to sleep for sure this time. I had never been so afraid in my life . . . because four years before, I had seen that bird. Somehow, in some unimaginable way, I had nearly forgotten that nightmare. It was my father who brought it back.
'It didn't hover,' he said. 'It floated. It floated. There were big bunches of balloons tied to each wing, and it floated.'
My father went to sleep.

[JayFarson]

With the exception of my first reading of it, I always found it hard to get through the last 1/4 of the book. It just seems to be lacking something. But the first 3/4 are some of my favorite writings ever.

[Jean]

With the exception of my first reading of it, I always found it hard to get through the last 1/4 of the book. It just seems to be lacking something. But the first 3/4 are some of my favorite writings ever.
I have always felt the same way about a number of King books (Insomnia and Talisman, among others) - when the fuss starts, something gets desperately lost.

[Heather19]

it's been a while since i've read it but two scary parts that stick out for me was when ben was walking on the bridge and he couldn't stop looking at the balloon and pennywise was getting closer...and closer


One of my favorite parts, that scene was just chilling.


And I agree about the end as well, however the rest of the book was so good, that it didn't take away too much for me.

[BeDaN]

I loved the book, it was one of the harder ones for me to read, but I'm gonna chalk that up to A) I had seen the movie so I somewhat had an idea of what was gonna happen. B) I read it in paperback which is nearly 1100 Pages with the print being extremely small, it felt drowning. I also thought that there was so much in it that SK could have left out and slimmed it down by a hundred pages or more. Though after I was done I was able to look back and fully appreciate it. Not sure if I'll ever re-read it but I did enjoy it when it was all said and done. A fine cast of characters and an eerie setting made it great.

[theBeamisHome]

it took me forever to finally work up the nerve to read It... probably because i had a fear of clowns and because the paperback is 1100 pages long. i loved it once i finally got to it tho.

[JQ The Gunslinger]

IT was my first SK book i read. it was deff a bit over whelming to see all that print on a single page. But god this book is amazing

[Odetta]

With the exception of my first reading of it, I always found it hard to get through the last 1/4 of the book. It just seems to be lacking something. But the first 3/4 are some of my favorite writings ever.
I have always felt the same way about a number of King books (Insomnia and Talisman, among others) - when the fuss starts, something gets desperately lost.

Maybe because he builds up so much to the climactic points, anything after is going to be a let down?

[Jean]

With the exception of my first reading of it, I always found it hard to get through the last 1/4 of the book. It just seems to be lacking something. But the first 3/4 are some of my favorite writings ever.
I have always felt the same way about a number of King books (Insomnia and Talisman, among others) - when the fuss starts, something gets desperately lost.

Maybe because he builds up so much to the climactic points, anything after is going to be a let down?

No, I don't really think so; it's when he decides that the denouement should be action-packed that it is a let down (for me, I mean). For example, Misery or Duma Key do not suffer from that at all; but whatever books sacrifice inner developments for action, do. Maybe that's what JayFarson meant when he mentioned "lacking something".

[Odetta]

that could be

[bondosan]

I'm still in the middle of It but there were some passages that struck me as more connections to the Tower. It's when Pennywise is the Paul Bunyan statue and he points his finger at Richie, the text reads "Its as big as a beam" them Richie thinks "Big as a bea-," then something happens to stop his train of that. I found that interesting but the big thing was just a bit later. Richie starts talking in what I can only call an Odetta Walker voice and it made Pennywise flinch. I know her voice made various agents of the Crimson King back off.

It also occurs to me the It shows up every 27 years. If my math is right, the next time Pennywise is to show up is 2012. I wonder if we'll see any type of It part 2 from King or other sources.

[Darkthoughts]

Check out the IT article in the Tower Connections section of the board when you finish reading the book :thumbsup:

As for Richie's voice, I know what you mean by it being an "Odetta voice", but I think the power it had over It was that, doing impressions and goofing off was what made Richie happy, therefore giving him power over Pennywise who tormented through fear and lack of happiness.

[Bluenose]

for those of you still wondering about the mental health of my co worker (the one who's scared of Clowns and borrowed IT from me to read on holidays) I regret to inform you....

that she still hasnt finished the bloody thing!

[Heather19]

has she at least started it yet?

[Bluenose]

she's started it. I think its one of these ones thats scaring the bejesus out of her, but she's determined to read it, even if it means fighting through it page by page.

Hey, I'm the supportive co worker in this. I'm helping her face her fears :D

[Heather19]

:lol:
There's nothing better than a good scary book. And at least she likes it enough to try to finish it.

[ksmithcats]

One of my favorite books. Scared..no still scares..me so bad that I have to keep a cutsie little quilted book-cover over it so I can't see it.

I can accept the group-sex for the various reasons mentioned, but it still feels indulgent to me.

I thought it was just the biggest ripoff ever to build up IT as the end-all-be-all of all terror and fear, then discover it's just a big ole spider...maybe it's just because I don't find anything scary about that.

I'm there with Gasher and Heather in really falling into the story of the Black Spot.

And as for the death of the Turtle and the level of the tower.....well, there are other worlds than these, right?

[Whitey Appleseed]

My problem is the stories don't drag on long enough. What! The End? But I suppose the people who sew books together would need to hire engineers with fresh ideas about book binding. Someone said their book fell apart.

I wonder what it is that Bev's father told her? After she unzips her jeans in the dark, she says, I know something. I know because my father told me. I know how to bring us back together. And if we're not together we'll never get out...Something that will bring us together forever.

Can't get any closer than that, I don't imagine. And maybe you can't be more human that that, or is it hooooo-man? Ben is "bewildered" by what she says. Before that, Eddie is leading them and he is "more bewildered than frightened". Love potion number nine, I dunno, maybe what Bev does is break the spell they'd been under after battling It, maybe that's a way of explaining doin' it.

[flaggwalkstheline]

the other reference to IT still being alive is in tommyknockers when one of the people driving past derrry gets a whiff of the noxious alien gas and sees "a clown with silver eyes looking up at him from one of the drainpipes" Paraphrasing since I dont have the book near me right now

[Odetta]

I don't remember that!!!!
Of course, it's been soo long since I read Tommyknockers... anyone have the actual quote?

[Beamer]

great book...one of my favorites. When I first red the sex scene, I was a young boy myself about the age of 11, so I thought it was wonderful, in fact I started crawling around in old sewer lines trying to find a monster to kill so I too could have sex with a girl. Well, needless to say, crawling around in sewers didnt bring the ladies, and i never found a friggin monster, i did step on several spiders that i pretended were much larger than what they actually were, but alas...still no willing girl would give me my reward...So I gave up sewer dwelling and monster hunting for good...

[Brainslinger]

I wonder what it is that Bev's father told her?

I think she was referring to the "facts of life." I.e. her father had 'that talk' with her.

On saying that, he didn't come across as that kind of bloke. Wasn't he abusive to her? (In a violent way I mean... not.. oh you know...


the other reference to IT still being alive is in tommyknockers when one of the people driving past derrry gets a whiff of the noxious alien gas and sees "a clown with silver eyes looking up at him from one of the drainpipes" Paraphrasing since I dont have the book near me right now

I remember that! I figured that the events of Tommyknockers happened before IT's death though, i.e. maybe both stories were happening simultaneously. I do wonder if such creatures can die forever though, considering a statue scene in another book...

[flaggwalkstheline]

nope it was in 85, tommyknockers took place in 89
also There is a distinct influence of lovecraft on IT and remember what he said "that which is dead may eternal lye though through strange eons even death may die"

[Whitey Appleseed]

I don't remember that!!!!
Of course, it's been soo long since I read Tommyknockers... anyone have the actual quote?

Not it, exactly, Odetta, but in Chapter 8 Ev Hillman, section 5..."sometimes he would lie in the dark and think he heard chuckling noises coming from the drains and he would think: You're going nuts, old-timer."

And in the chapter called Beach Jernigan and Dick Allison, #7, section 9, "the green coming from the culvert winked out."

In chapter nine, fwiw, The Funeral, we have that "Michigan seems like a dream to me now." thingy...Simon and Garfunkel? And Eddie, at some point along the beam.

[Whitey Appleseed]

Okay, here it is, from Tommyknockers, p 510 my pbc, from chapter 10, A book of Days--the town concluded, section 14, the one that begins, "Tuesday, August 9th". Tommy hallucinating. Is that a spoiler? Who's Tommy? Where'd Billy go? anyway, the open sewer manhole, a clown, clenched white glove filled with balloons.

[flaggwalkstheline]

there is also the matter of ev hillman hearing giggling coming from the sink in his motel in derry as well, just those little drops freaked me out as much as any of the main story in tommyknockers (which I loved btw)

[Odetta]

great! thx for the info!

[mate211]

Now i read Needful things after i completed that im gonna read Everythings's Eventual.
I havet to buy It after them:) Its quite cheap for me:)I still have to buy Salem's Lot, Cujo, Dark Half.My friends say this isnt normal for 1 guy:D
I hope i ll have enough time for the books.I hate school now:(boring,and too hard:(

[bluelph24]

When i read Insomnia, i could've sworn there was a reference to Pennywise (aside from the most known one). i mena an actual sighting. here's the quote

He saw no little bald doctors, but shortly after fife-thirty he observed a startling shaft of purple light erupt from a manhole cover in the middle of Harris Avenue; It rose into the sky like the special effect in a Cecil B. DeMille Bible Epic for perhaps three minutes, then simply winked out. He also saw a huge bird that looked like a prehistoric hawk go floating between the chimneys of the old dairy building around the corner of howard street...

i mean, who else could that light be, and i think the bird reference is too close to be considered coincidence as well

[Odetta]

I kind of feel like anytime a sewer or manhole, etc... is mentioned in a King book it refers to Pennywise, anyhow.

[KaleKatt]

I read It for the second time last year. The first time I had read it, I, too, didn't know what to make of the sex scene. I thought it was unnecessary. But as JQ The Gunslinger and obscurejude said, the sex scene has both to do with a loss of innocence, or rather a move into adulthood (which, for many of us, sex is the deciding factor) as well as a closeness that only sex can bring. They could not escape the neither the sewer if they were still ‘innocent’. The entire novel is a parallel between the Losers as children, innocent and believing, and adults, experienced. What makes this remarkable is that the Losers are still able to recall Pennywise as adults. Like the novel suggests, adults stop believing. Mike is their only link to Derry, to their childhood. Something is said, then, about he haunted town of Derry. By having in the sewer, Mike should have been able to escape and forget Pennywise like the rest of them. The fact that he stays, and remembers, says something about Derry as a town.

[flaggwalkstheline]

I hope that within the next few years SK writes a story about patrick danville saving the lives of 2 men on the way to the tower in 2012 (presumable before he gets taken by dandelo) it could possibly also resolve the question of "Pennywise Lives!" as dreamcatcher puts it

[obscurejude]

I read It for the second time last year. The first time I had read it, I, too, didn't know what to make of the sex scene. I thought it was unnecessary. But as JQ The Gunslinger and obscurejude said, the sex scene has both to do with a loss of innocence, or rather a move into adulthood (which, for many of us, sex is the deciding factor) as well as a closeness that only sex can bring. They could not escape the neither the sewer if they were still ‘innocent’. The entire novel is a parallel between the Losers as children, innocent and believing, and adults, experienced. What makes this remarkable is that the Losers are still able to recall Pennywise as adults. Like the novel suggests, adults stop believing. Mike is their only link to Derry, to their childhood. Something is said, then, about he haunted town of Derry. By having in the sewer, Mike should have been able to escape and forget Pennywise like the rest of them. The fact that he stays, and remembers, says something about Derry as a town.

I just wanted to say props for reading the rest of the thread. :thumbsup: Welcome to the site, and I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. :)

[Ka-Shume]

Just finished it for the first time yesterday, my second SK book outside of the Dark Tower (first one being Insomnia). It was FANTASTIC I thought. Not to beat a dead horse but I had the same mixed feelings of the sex scene that are mentioned here, I at first thought it was unnecessary-- just a reason for Sai King to talk about pee pee's and vajay jays, but it was useful in that their bond was spent and needed reforged. Sex was the only option at the time.

At every mention of the Turtle I got all giddy inside, and when Bill was having a conversation with it I about jizzed my pants. We got to see one Guardian get blasted and now we get to have a convo with another! I loved it. Gonna read Desperation next, wish me luck.

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Messages/good-luck.jpg

I hope you'll love Desperation (it being one of my favorite books, I still have to concede that It is better... but desperation is great in its own dark way)

[theyspunaweb]

Oh my gosh it is taking me forever to get through this book. I'm on...843 (the 4th interlude or something) and I cannot wait to finsih. Originally it was taking me so long to read and maybe it is cause it's an older Stephen King, I'm not sure, but now that I'm nearing the end I am reading faster and more excited for the finale.

I haven't reached the rape scene or sex whatever, but I kind of get the just of what will happen. Kinda weirded out I guess that I know something's coming (With Bev?)...

I need to finish this book so I can move on and understand why so many of you hold it so dear in the King collection. It's been good so far, way better than the movie. I didn't even finsih that all the way (fell asleep).

[Brice]

No, it's not rape nor is it plain old sex...think more of a kiddie gang bang. :scared: ><

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Im currently on a 2nd re read of IT. I now fold down pages everytime there is a quote I like or I think is pretty clever/epic. Im on page 800 and i have at least 15 folded down pages. There is so many amazing lines King comes up with. The man is god

[theyspunaweb]

No, it's not rape nor is it plain old sex...think more of a kiddie gang bang. :scared: ><

I thought that might have been what I had heard too...but believed I was probably just thinking of the scene from Bag of Bones when it came into my head. I sort of get what is gonna happen/going on with previous analysis of it from this thread but...If all of the kids in the Losers club bang Beverly, I don't know if I will feel comfortable believing in any of them and their morals any longer (the boys). Or even be able to like their charecters at all.

I guess I will have to wait and see!

[theyspunaweb]

I finally finished! I can't remember how long it took me to read but I did it. I have to say that I did enjoy it, but not as much as I think I had hoped too. It was a good book, but I don't think it will in the end be one of my favorites by king. I think the gang bang thing was just...gross. I don't understand how Beverly would have the idea suddenly come over her, in order to make them all connected again/get out of the pipes. It's gross to think about 11 year olds doing that anyway...maybe it was the way that king described it as flying with birds chirping yet it hurt.

The ending was alright. I guess the best thing I got out of this was the charecters themselves because in the beginning I couldn't tell all of the names apart, but after a while there was no mistaking each charecter. Maybe that's why I felt so wrong morally when they all got it on in the sewer. And Bill a little bit too for cheating on Audra (even if it is about Passion and coming home and revisiting your childhood), I know his charecter felt bad, but I still didn't like it.

[glm]

Does anyone know any influences on the book It?

[pathoftheturtle]

Well, Floating Dragon by Peter Straub, for one.

Could you expand a bit on what kind of info you're looking for?

[flaggwalkstheline]

There really arent many horror stories quite like it
Lovecraft is an obvious influence and I'm gonna guess Charles Dickens....

[Tvmorbid]

I read that King said that the old 'Troll Under The Bridge' idea really sparked the story off. Apparently he was walking over a stone bridge and it came to his mind. Amazing what can influence you eh?

[smcicr]

Ok,

So this is going to be a bit of a ramble as it's not really properly complete in my head yet (so bear with me please!) I originally posted this in the IT part of the Tower Connections but it was kindly suggested that it might get some more attention here - so here goes :D

I'm re-reading IT at the moment, my first SK book and the one that got me started. I haven't read it since reading (and re-reading) the DT series and something just popped out at me.

The concept of twins is pretty standard as far as I'm concerned in the DT (Eddie / Cuthbert is the one that comes to mind first but I'm sure there are others referenced).

On that basis I started wondering if any of the Loser's Club twinned across somehow (I actually wondered if they all did but think that might be a bit of a reach) and the ones that seem the most obvious are Richie and Bill. They seem to me very much like Cuthbert and Roland. Bill being the unspoken leader and Richie with his wild mouth that just can't help itself...

I was toying with this idea when I reached a section where Richie likens Bill to JFK (don't have the book to hand but can find the page details later), now JFK is mentioned in the DT - Odetta considers him the last gunslinger (or does she hear / mishear that as part of a radio announcement when she's not properly concentrating - I think in the car with Andrew being driven back to her apartment after the protest in the South where they lock them in the cells). There is further discussion - even including Roland iirc - about JFK through the books (DT).

So, for me, while Bill is not technically a gunslinger I wonder if he could be considered a 'potential' to pinch a term from Buffy (much as Eddie and Odetta / Detta and Jake were when Roland drew them). I don't think there is any doubt that Bill, and indeed the other Losers are agents of the White.

Either way, it just made me feel that there was definitely something to be considered in the whole twin thing (Bill + Richie / Roland + Cuthbert).

I'd be fascinated to hear what others thought (even if it's to tell me I'm talking rubbish !

Thanks for reading

[Jean]

I personally wouldn't go that far; in both cases King describes ka-tets, and every ka-tet has a dinh. I am afraid that's the only similarity between Bill and Roland that I can see; they are both obsessed, to an extent (though the extent differs greatly), but here a question arises whether it is a feature they share, or just something intrinsic to any ka-tet dinh.

As far as Richie/Cuthbert are concerned, they definitely belong to the same human type (so does Larry Underwood), but I am not sure it is ground enough for suspecting them of being twins.

Maybe I am only opposed to your theory because I would much prefer the world to consist of many different people and ka-tets rather than be reducible to one, however great. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif

[smcicr]

I take your point - and similarly I would rather have the world be made up of different people.

I think the Dinh thing is probably right and I will continue to think carefully as I go through IT. Given his singular (pardon the pun) importance I don't think Roland could ever have a true twin (or twinner - I'm not even going to go there - i just dipped into that thread!) but I would say that being a twin doesn't mean you have to be the same person. SK's character in the DT books says that Eddie and Cuthbert are twins and I consider them to be unique individuals but with some striking similarities.

It's kind of on that 'overlapping' basis that I see Richie / Eddie / Cuthbert.

The other thing (and this could also perhaps be covered off under Dinh'ish qualities) is that I've already noted at least one of the Losers say they'd lay down their lives for Bill (Eddie K) - maybe he's the only one to do so (not finished the re-read yet) but that is the sort of unconditional love / loyalty that Roland often muses to himself about (as in what he has done to engender this in others).

So for the moment I'm going to consider at least some of the Loser's as 'potentials' and Richie as some form of overlap with the spirit (etc) of Cuthbert / Eddie D :D

Thanks for the reply!

[Solar]

I don't have much to add to this thread, but I just wanted to pop in and say that reading through it has been very informative and has inspired me to finally reread IT after about 10 years (as soon as I finish Duma Key).

[glm]

Well, Floating Dragon by Peter Straub, for one.

Could you expand a bit on what kind of info you're looking for?

Stories that influenced Stephen King to write the book It.

[lowdown]

i read IT when i was 16 i think and i re read it in my 20's but im gonna go back to it after i finsh the last DT book ....probaly a week from now .....i was reading ebooks for 5 and 6 but for the last one i had to go to the library and get it.......it only seems right

[TheCrisisKing]

Who feels Pennywise will return in another novel. It has been often referenced that Pennywise survived or at least an egg did. Who think King can do it?