Crimson King and IT Related? Similar? *spoilers

[ledwelo]

IS THE CRIMSO KING "IT"?!?
ive got a headache trying to figure it out.it would make sense since his true forms a spider and his son is half spider but....idk,i nvr saw the king as some demonic clown from dead lights or w.e


anways...SOME ONE PLZ POST AND LEAR THIS UP FOR ME MUCH APPRECIATED LONG LIVE THE TOWER!!!!

[sarah]

In my opinion (and lots of folks around here) I believe that he is not IT.
There are a couple of threads discussing this already and I'll post the link as soon and I can lead you in the right direction.

Welcome to the site and happy posting!!

[ledwelo]

In my opinion (and lots of folks around here) I believe that he is not IT.
There are a couple of threads discussing this already and I'll post the link as soon and I can lead you in the right direction.

Welcome to the site and happy posting!!

k well i didnt thin he was it either..thanks dude:cool:

[Letti]

Welcome to the site. :D I am with mearlyn, I don't think they are the same.

[obscurejude]

What if IT's spaceship has something to do with Black 13? See: chapter when they are in the smoke hole. I dunno, IT has some really large cosmological significances in the book.

[jayson]

I got the impression IT has been around a LOT longer than the CK.

[mia/susannah]

In my opinion, It is not the crimson king

[obscurejude]

I got the impression IT has been around a LOT longer than the CK.

Yeah, me too...

[LadyHitchhiker]

I have the opinion they are cousins... or if not cousins somehow very closely related but they are from different multiverses.

[The Lady of Shadows]

definitely different. i would even go so far as to say when it comes down to cases, IT is far more powerful than the CK. IT has lived for centuries, if not millenia (sp?). it took a specialized ritual (chud) to get rid of him. CK ended up stuck on a balcony outside the tower, not even in the tower mind you, outside the tower. and it took an eraser to get rid of him.

now i did find the CK scary in the beginning (i.e. insomnia), don't get me wrong. but by DTVII, i just found him pathetic and annoying.

[obscurejude]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[The Lady of Shadows]

exactly

[Daghain]

Apples and oranges, IMHO. Not the same. :)

[MonteGss]

I urge everyone to read the smoke house chapter in IT again and also all of the sub-chapters in Part 5 that are labeled It. I am finishing up my audio of the book and IT and the CK are not the same but there is absolutely no denying they are "related" imo.

[Brice]

I think I'd kinda' agree with you Monte. There are at least some strong similarities as I recall.

[MonteGss]

Perhaps IT and the Crimson Queen have more similarities than with the CK. After all, the CK is a half-n-half. IT is not part human.

[Brice]

True, although I'd have to reread it (which is high up on the list) before I could discuss it much.

[MonteGss]

;)

[Brice]

:D

[jayson]

Perhaps IT and the Crimson Queen have more similarities than with the CK. After all, the CK is a half-n-half. IT is not part human.

Bingo. I think IT is akin to The Great Old Ones, nasty spiders that they were. The Crimson King is related to them, but not the same as them. IT strikes me as being the epitome of those things.

[The Lady of Shadows]

I urge everyone to read the smoke house chapter in IT again and also all of the sub-chapters in Part 5 that are labeled It. I am finishing up my audio of the book and IT and the CK are not the same but there is absolutely no denying they are "related" imo.


wait. you have IT on audio? :excited: really? from where? can we trade? i'll dub rose madder for you and you dub IT for me?

[B Rag]

Once, on thedarktower.net, someone suggested that the Crimson King might be one of It's eggs. I don't remember who said that, though...

[jayson]

Once, on thedarktower.net, someone suggested that the Crimson King might be one of It's eggs. I don't remember who said that, though...

perhaps The Great Old Ones as a race all started from IT...

[mia/susannah]

i am reading IT for the first time right now. I don't see any connection to IT and CK yet, but maybe when I finish reading it I might

[MonteGss]

Once, on thedarktower.net, someone suggested that the Crimson King might be one of It's eggs. I don't remember who said that, though...

Well we know from backstory now, that this isn't the case.

[B Rag]

Once, on thedarktower.net, someone suggested that the Crimson King might be one of It's eggs. I don't remember who said that, though...

Well we know from backstory now, that this isn't the case.

Oh yeah, that was before the comics came out. But there could be some connection, maybe? Like one of the CK's ancestors was an egg or something... I haven't read the comics, so I'm only vaguely familiar with the backstory.

[Archangel(tjk)]

OK I think I was one of the original people that started this debate on the IT spoilers page, and i have talked with quite a few people here about the subject. I would have to say that they are related, from the same species, but the CK is only half of whatever he is as his mother was human. Take a look at Dreamcatcher as well, as there are some relations between the Grays there and IT. The connection to the comics is in the 4th one of the long road home where the CK introduces himself as "the eater of worlds" but take a look at some of the other threads and it is suggested that this is just the CK's ego talking, as he considers himself all powerful, but remember he has been driven insane

[jayson]

... but the CK is only half of whatever he is as his mother was human.

Actually, the CK's human side is his father's. The CK's mother is The Crimson Queen, one of the Great Old Ones. His father is Arthur Eld, a human.

[The Lady of Shadows]

wait. WHAT? the crimson king's father is fucking king arthur?
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:






what in the holy fuck are you people talking about????????????????????

[jayson]

wait. WHAT? the crimson king's father is fucking king arthur?
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:






what in the holy fuck are you people talking about????????????????????

It's stuff we learned in the comics, though it is hinted at in the DT books themselves (it is mentioned that the CK is of the line of Eld). In the comics we learn his exact origins.

[theBeamisHome]

I pretty much agree with Monte.... they're definitely of the same half-species.... I think IT is more powerful... and i agree with Archangel too.. IT seemed more closely related to the Grays in Dreamcatcher... I'd say the Grays and the Crimson Queen were all descendents of IT on different levels of the Tower i guess... or planes of existence/multiverses w/e

[MonteGss]

The comics are canon, friends.
We know the origin of the Crimson King and as R_of_G pointed out, his father was Arthur Eld and his mother was a giant spider, one of the Great Ones, the Crimson Queen.

:)

[Wuducynn]

The comics are canon, friends.
We know the origin of the Crimson King and as R_of_G pointed out, his father was Arthur Eld and his mother was a giant spider, one of the Great Old Ones, the Crimson Queen.
:)

..

[Wuducynn]

Yeah, that was in response to previous posts. :lol:
If people have read the comics, than they probably have different ideas about the relationship/connection between IT and the CK.

Sorry, my sidetrack is over now. :)

No, I just struck your "Old" out of your post. They are called The Great Ones. The Great Old Ones being humans living a long time ago in Mid-World.

[MonteGss]

Oh, cool! Thanks, I (clearly) didn't notice that.

[theBeamisHome]

I'm glad you corrected that Matthew cuz i was like.... weren't the Great Old Ones the people that fucked everything up????

glad i was right :D

[obscurejude]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon. That's a strong word and I'm not sure why Mathew and Monte use it in one thread and then complain about some of the writers not reading the books in another. :doh:

Anyways, if the comics were cannon, then King would have already shown up in them as a character since he is clearly god. :lol:

[Jean]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon.
glad to hear that

::tired of being all alone::

[obscurejude]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon.
glad to hear that

::tired of being all alone::

:couple:

[theBeamisHome]

i haven't actually read the comics... i perused one before i even read the books.. and i'm just too lazy to get them now.

[Wuducynn]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon. That's a strong word and I'm not sure why Mathew and Monte use it in one thread and then complain about some of the writers not reading the books in another. :doh:

Anyways, if the comics were cannon, then King would have already shown up in them as a character since he is clearly god. :lol:

Not sure why? Its been explained several times. Let me explain again. King green lights all of it, and gives his feedback too. The writer of the series goes to King to be sure it is in line with the Dark Tower series, even after Furth.
My complaint about him not reading the series doesn't negate that fact. The language is not King's and that's my main complaint. He hasn't read the Dark Tower books so at various times he makes Roland out to sound like Eddie or Cuthbert.
I also have other complaints but none that take away from the fact that this is work inspired by, green-lit by and gone through by King. It's a part of King's Dark Tower universe.
Do you understand what I am saying now?

[Wuducynn]

glad to hear that

::tired of being all alone::

*Locks Jean in a pitch black cellar filled with starving, rabid mastiffs*

Now you have some company bitch.

[jayson]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon. That's a strong word and I'm not sure why Mathew and Monte use it in one thread and then complain about some of the writers not reading the books in another. :doh:

Anyways, if the comics were cannon, then King would have already shown up in them as a character since he is clearly god. :lol:

Not sure why? Its been explained several times. Let me explain again. King green lights all of it, and gives his feedback too. The writer of the series goes to King to be sure it is in line with the Dark Tower series, even after Furth.
My complaint about him not reading the series doesn't negate that fact. The language is not King's and that's my main complaint. He hasn't read the Dark Tower books so at various times he makes Roland out to sound like Eddie or Cuthbert.
I also have other complaints but none that take away from the fact that this is work inspired by, green-lit by and gone through by King. It's a part of King's Dark Tower universe.
Do you understand what I am saying now?

I agree with you Matthew. If there's anything King doesn't want being part of the DT mythos he could always tell them to take it out.

[obscurejude]

I'm having some second thoughts about the comics being canon. That's a strong word and I'm not sure why Mathew and Monte use it in one thread and then complain about some of the writers not reading the books in another. :doh:

Anyways, if the comics were cannon, then King would have already shown up in them as a character since he is clearly god. :lol:

Not sure why? Its been explained several times. Let me explain again. King green lights all of it, and gives his feedback too. The writer of the series goes to King to be sure it is in line with the Dark Tower series, even after Furth.
My complaint about him not reading the series doesn't negate that fact. The language is not King's and that's my main complaint. He hasn't read the Dark Tower books so at various times he makes Roland out to sound like Eddie or Cuthbert.
I also have other complaints but none that take away from the fact that this is work inspired by, green-lit by and gone through by King. It's a part of King's Dark Tower universe.
Do you understand what I am saying now?

Canon means, "a rod for measuring." I think its more accurate to say the series is Canon and maybe DT related King books. Like I said, canon is a strong word and I think you're using it inaccurately. You can't complain about the Crimson King being portrayed too much like the "Christian Devil" and then call the series canonical. With such statements, you're measuring the validity of the comics with the canon that has already been established. "Green Light" and "Canonical" should be miles apart.

[Wuducynn]

I explained why they are canon and all you are coming back with "is that it's a strong word and you're using it innacurately." I can very well complain about how some character is portrayed and will continue to do so. I ALSO explained why complaining about something does not negate it being canon.
There are things about the books that folk complain about all the time. Are you going to tell me that makes them not canon?

[obscurejude]

That's not all I said. If you can't understand my above post, I don't really see the point of continuing to discuss it. Call it whatever you want.

[Jean]

I explained why they are canon <...> I ALSO explained why complaining about something does not negate it being canon. <...>

even if your explanation seemed exhaustive to you, it doesn't automatically mean it would be an ultimate eye-opener to the rest of us. Anything said by anyone remains a matter of further discussion.


If you can't understand my above post, I don't really see the point of continuing to discuss it.

Please let us not presume that our opponents are unable to understand what we're saying, it doesn't really promote a discussion. (By the way, in most such cases they are just unwilling, not unable.) Also, refusing to discuss something might result in other people's interests suffering - namely, those who were following the discussion in question.

[obscurejude]

I wouldn't call it presumption when my post was eisegetically interpreted.