Insomnia - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[ZGDK]

It seems like everyone seems to dislike Insomnia for some reason. I see it top many people's lists of thier least favorite SK novels. I don't get it. It starts off slow, but the beginning is very well written and helps introduce you to the characters. Once Ralph starts seeing the auras and the doctors then it becomes very interesting. The part when he sees the Bald Doctors actually scared me and it takes a lot for a book to scare me. I think the Dark Tower connection was done very well. It was also a very thought provoking book. Although I heard somewhere Stephen King himself said he was a tad dissapointed with Insomnia.

[jayson]

The main criticism that I've seen is that people think it is slow-paced. I love Insomnia and had no issues with the pacing.

[John_and_Yoko]

It seems like everyone seems to dislike Insomnia for some reason. I see it top many people's lists of thier least favorite SK novels. I don't get it. It starts off slow, but the beginning is very well written and helps introduce you to the characters. Once Ralph starts seeing the auras and the doctors then it becomes very interesting. The part when he sees the Bald Doctors actually scared me and it takes a lot for a book to scare me. I think the Dark Tower connection was done very well. It was also a very thought provoking book. Although I heard somewhere Stephen King himself said he was a tad dissapointed with Insomnia.

Thank you for finally starting this thread! I was wondering when someone would, because Insomnia is my favorite non-Dark Tower book by Stephen King--and I was expecting to dislike it, especially since Stephen King wasn't as pleased with it as he might have been....

I never noticed any slowness like everyone's been talking about (though I was prepared for just such). And I think part of the reason I enjoyed it so much was that I kept seeing myself in it.... THAT's creepy....

[Darkthoughts]

I cry everytime anyone ranks on this story :cry:

:lol: No, really - Insomnia deserves nothing but love. It's beautifully paced, I feel it was purposely written that way for the reader to identify with Ralph and the other senior citizens in the story. You'll note it changes pace as they begin to feel younger.

[TY1ON]

FIRST OFF,HELLO. AND NO I'M NOT SCREAMING, I ALWAYS WRITE IN CAPITAL LETTERS. I'VE JUST SIGNED IN AND DECIDED TO DROP A LINE ABOUT INSOMNIA. IT'S THE ONLY OTHER SK BOOK THAT I RE-READ BESIDES THE 7. I ENJOYED THE WHOLE IDEA ABOUT THE "OLDER FOLKS" BEING THE GERO OF THE STORY. I'M NOT AN VEROCIOUS READER, BUT THE FIRST TIME I READ "INSOMMNIA" I PLOWED THRU IT IN ABOUT 5 DAYS(AND THAT'S FAST FOR ME). WELL I JUST WANTED TO PUT IN MY 2CENTS ABOUT THIS READ. THANKEE SAIS FOR READING-TY1ON

[Tiffany]

It's one of my favorites but I can admit that it was a really slow start.

It might have something to do with the fact that the main dude is an old guy so his life just isn't terribly exciting at the beginning of the story.

Edit: Why do you always write in caps? Just curious.

[LemurJones]

I really like Insomnia, too. I wouldn't have read DT if I hadn't read Insomnia when I did.

[obscurejude]

You'll note it changes pace as they begin to feel younger.

Very astute Lisa. :thumbsup: I very much agree with you. Damn, what a great book.

[Unfound One]

I read Insomnia right after I finished my re-read of DTVII a couple weeks ago.
Despite many warnings that it starts off slow and only ties in a couple times to DT, I very much enjoyed it! I had no issues at all with the pacing either - read it in 3 sittings.
It's so different to have an older couple as the heroes, and Ralph is a really cool character. Even though I'm young and he's definitely not I felt he was relatable.
My favorite parts are when I hit anything DT related - goosebumps.
Especially when Roland is mentioned by name. :)

Something I wonder about though - when Patrick is first introduced and he draws the picture of the Red King and Roland, he knows who they are, he says he dreams of them.
Did Patrick recognise Roland when he met him in DTVII? Or did he forget like Jack Sawyer forgot (until he was reminded?)
Gosh I'm curious to know how the hell Patrick made his way to End-World...

[John_and_Yoko]

I think Patrick's mind was somewhat drained by Dandelo....

I wish I knew how he ended up there too, but we'll probably never know.

[obscurejude]

Gosh I'm curious to know how the hell Patrick made his way to End-World...

You haven't read IT yet right? I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Derry, the setting of both novels. There's nothing explicit, of course, but its obvious that Dandelo and Pennywise are of the same species. Stuttering Bill is also a shout out to Bill Denbrough, the main protagonist in IT.

What do you guys think?

[John_and_Yoko]

You haven't read IT yet right? I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Derry, the setting of both novels. There's nothing explicit, of course, but its obvious that Dandelo and Pennywise are of the same species. Stuttering Bill is also a shout out to Bill Denbrough, the main protagonist in IT.

What do you guys think?

Makes sense to me--I'm just over 1/3 of the way through IT myself, but I definitely noticed the parallels....

[Unfound One]

I'm just getting into IT, but I'm only at 70 pages or so.
Can give me a time reference though? What came first, Insomnia or IT?

[obscurejude]

You haven't read IT yet right? I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Derry, the setting of both novels. There's nothing explicit, of course, but its obvious that Dandelo and Pennywise are of the same species. Stuttering Bill is also a shout out to Bill Denbrough, the main protagonist in IT.

What do you guys think?

Makes sense to me--I'm just over 1/3 of the way through IT myself, but I definitely noticed the parallels....

Let me know if you find anything more specific J and Y, since you're reading them so close together. Lisa has some great parallels mentioned in the DT Connections section- great article on IT.

[John_and_Yoko]

Well, I've already contributed some things in The Dark Tower VII that were related to IT but weren't in the Connections article. If I find anything more specific, I'll make mention of it.

I'm finding stuff already, but I highly doubt that I'm the first to notice....

[obscurejude]

I'm just getting into IT, but I'm only at 70 pages or so.
Can give me a time reference though? What came first, Insomnia or IT?

Well IT was published almost 10 years before Insomnia or do you want a narrative timeline. IT bounces back and forth (as you'll soon find out) between the 50's and the 80's. Insomnia takes place 5 or 6 years after the ending of IT, Ralph makes a reference to a memorial that you probably didn't notice since you hadn't read IT yet.

I hope you love IT. I think you will.

[Unfound One]

Aha, narrative timeline, yes please and thankee for the info. :)

[obscurejude]

Aha, narrative timeline, yes please and thankee for the info. :)

I would say more about Dandelo's possible origins, but I don't want to spoil the ending of IT for you. I also realize that you would be tempted with a spoiler tag, so I won't even do that to you. :couple:

[Darkthoughts]

Well, I've already contributed some things in The Dark Tower VII that were related to IT but weren't in the Connections article.

This is something I wasn't sure about when I started the Connections pages. Should I cross reference every book - or not?

So what, after some discussion, we decided to do was write up each individual book and the references specifically found therein. Naturally some cross referencing does occur.

So basically, anything you note in DT7, connections to any other works of Kings', would be written up as connections under the DT7 article :thumbsup:

[razz]

that bok was so good i couldn't put it down and go to sleep.

[ZGDK]

I was just thinking: who exactly is The Greenman from Insomnia? When Ralph asks the Crimson King he says he is familiar with all the neighborhood folks but he looks unsure this time. At first I thought the Greenman was Gan or Old Dorrance. I wonder just who he really is? Also what makes Dorrance so special? Who is he? In my opinion I don't think Insomnia is all false. Remember during Roland's conversation with Nancy she says something along the lines of not all the information was false just some of it. Plus on some level of the tower there has to be a Ralph Roberts.

[Darkthoughts]

That very same question has bugged me for ages!!! I even posted it as my question for the "Ask King a question" competition...still no clue :(

[lophophoras]

It seems like everyone seems to dislike Insomnia for some reason. I see it top many people's lists of thier least favorite SK novels. I don't get it. It starts off slow, but the beginning is very well written and helps introduce you to the characters. Once Ralph starts seeing the auras and the doctors then it becomes very interesting. The part when he sees the Bald Doctors actually scared me and it takes a lot for a book to scare me. I think the Dark Tower connection was done very well. It was also a very thought provoking book. Although I heard somewhere Stephen King himself said he was a tad dissapointed with Insomnia.

Insomnia is one of my favorites. The characters were so likeable. I remember it being slow paced at first but I felt it was needed because it helped to aquaint me with the characters. I think it may be time for me to pick it up again.

[riknofx]

Just wanted to pitch in some love for Insomnia. The character development took awhile and the story grew roots over time with me. I love the whole premise and the way it ties in with DT and Talisman/Black-House. Kick Ass pay-off once it opens up. I recently re-read Black-House and had to go back and re-up this too. Great stuff.
:shoot: :rose:

[sarah]

I liked Insomnia. Being slow paced was good for me at the time when I read it. I think it could have been about 200 pages shorter but really I liked the story that was told. It was a good book to read for me between Wolves of the Calla and Song of Susannah.

[Graham19]

I really liked Insomnia. Being an 'audio-reader', I listened to it on cd. Eli Wallach (Ugly from 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly) did an awsome job reading it, aswell as bringing the characters to life (many a chill down my spine). The pace was fine, I thought. It suited the main characters. The best bit for me though, was when Roland is mentioned asleep in the desert. I couldn't help thinking of him lying there next to the campfire, taking in the fumes from the burning devil grass - bringing dreams, nightmares, death! But not for Roland.

Yeah. I liked it alot. :thumbsup:

[Wuducynn]

I cry everytime anyone ranks on this story :cry:

:lol: No, really - Insomnia deserves nothing but love. It's beautifully paced, I feel it was purposely written that way for the reader to identify with Ralph and the other senior citizens in the story. You'll note it changes pace as they begin to feel younger.

While I don't cry, I agree with every bit of this statement.

[Darkthoughts]

You do so cry...your security blanket told me :P

[Wuducynn]

:( Fucking betrayer...if you can't trust your own security blanket, who can you trust in this world!?!?

[mia/susannah]

I borrowed Insomnia from my mother in law yesterday. I have started reading it and so far I like it.

[Sam]

Insomnia ranks high on my list of favorites. It did start out slow and was confusing to the point that I had to reread sections of it several times there toward the end, but buy the time I reached the end I cared about the characters more than I cared about many others. And I have read a LOT of books. In fact, I really can't think of any characters I cared about more besides those of The Stand. Not even the kids in IT. I invested a lot of myself into Ralph and Lois and was spent when the journey ended.

[Bumbler]

I never had any problem with it myself. It as in Insomnia, not it as in It... although It is drawn out, but still worth the recomendation. I must say that it is one of my favs. Outside of the DT, the only King novels I have re read more often than Insomnia are The Long Walk and The Stand. Oh yeah... maybe the Talisman and The Green Mile. But I will try not to get carried away here. All this to say that I love every bit of Insomnia. I think that if you cannot deal with heavy character development, then King is not for you. Just my opinion, but I see very few other authors capable of bringing me into a characters life the way King does. And yet that does seem to be the biggest complaint from non King fans. Myself and all my King buddies just love to rave about his horrable endings. Even those, however, I have grown to love.

[BevMarsh83]

I liked Insomnia, but I do agree about the slow start. I think I plowed on though because of the links to IT (my fave SK book, apart from DT of course) and the Dark Tower series. I think I might read it again as it havent read it since i finished DT a few years ago. Loved the ending....

What I think was cool about it is the fact that the heroes are elderly people, I cant really think of many, if any, books that ive read where that has been the case.....Go Ralph!! : )

[KaLikeAWheel]

Insomnia is one of my favorite books of all time! I don't usually cry at the end of books, but I cry everytime I read the end of this one. Sort of ironic, really, because for Steve, Insomnia had a positively chipper ending. As for the pacing, I think the first time I read Insomnia it took me less than a day. I couldn't put it down. Steve has written a couple of books I didn't care for, but Insomnia definitely wasn't one of them.

I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I heard Al Paccino wasn't going to be in the film adaptation of THAT Insomnia. :lol:

Donna

[Brice]

I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I heard Al Paccino wasn't going to be in the film adaptation of THAT Insomnia. :lol:

Donna



Now, THAT would be an interesting adaption. :lol:

[huey520]

Has been many years since i read Insomnia but really liked it and the characters. At the time hadn't read the Dark Tower series also currently reading IT for the first time (half way through),so wouldn't have got any connections with either book/books. Will be reading Insomnia again as soon as finish IT and hopefully this time spotting the ties to other stories.

[JQ The Gunslinger]

There not huge story changing connections. (IT that is)

[KaLikeAWheel]

Now, THAT would be an interesting adaption. :lol:


That would be to die for! Robin Williams was in that other Insomnia too. Maybe he could play McGovern, or even be the voice of one of the little bald doctors. I'd pay to see that.:D

Donna

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Jusy finished Insomnia. I love this book. The begginin is slow, ill agree with that. But the middle/end is great.

"Him's a King too."

Great book!

[Poisonbat]

This is my all time favorite King book. I have reread it many times and feel like I have a personal connection with Ralph and Lois. The ending has brought tears to my eyes every time. Ralph is my hero and will always be. :clap:

[JQ The Gunslinger]

When I actually started to get bored is when the book started to pick up. Great book and in my top 3 favorites

[alinda]

*goes to the book shelf and brings Insomnia down*
"you've just convinced me its time to reread this book,
I like this one alot ". I think it is a great story!

[alinda]

could be reading more very soon.......

[kirin]

some complain about the slow pace but this was there for a reason to put you not only in the head of the main character but to give you his mood, if you will make the reader feel what its like to live in the slow paced uneventful life of a retired elderly man.

i found that insomnia freaked me out in two senses one was that it became clear king has suffered from insomnia as have i also i read this book shortly after the events of 9/11 and found the parallels disturbing particularly when you consider insomnia was writen before 9/11 had even happened like well before about 4 years i think

[jhanic]

Insomnia was published in 1994. Seven years before 9/11.

I agree, the slow pace of the beginning let the reader know the characters very well.

John

[lucky13]

I just finished Insomnia and liked it a lot, although I am a bit confused about the Greenman... Other than that, I don't know why the book felt so "tricksy" to Roland. I saw many literal referances to the DT, but introducing more players (the doctors) behind the scenes of the Tower was a little hard to swallow. I loved the before-unmentioned idea of Purpose and Random, though.

[Jean]

Other than that, I don't know why the book felt so "tricksy" to Roland.
Roland isn't, you know, such a big reader... I think he would find The Three Bears confusing, and Winnie-the-Pooh a real mind-killer.

About Insomnia being "slow going": that's something I never felt... maybe because I love most of all that "slow going" literature of the past, like Jane Austen (Brice: http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif) or especially Dickens, when the main thing is all those nuances of feeling and thought, and the least movement of soul matters, - provided it is well written, of course, or such literature would be a living oxymoron. Of everything King wrote, for example, my favorite is the beginning of Black House (slippage and all), which so many find boring.

(as I already mentioned, though, I find the last quarter - or rather one sixth - of Insomnia boring, when all the fuss starts)

[Brice]

maybe because I love most of all that "slow going" literature of the past, like Jane Austen (Brice: http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wink-1.gif) or especially Dickens, when the main thing is all those nuances of feeling and thought, and the least movement of soul matters, - provided it is well written, of course,


Slow can be good (if well done) such as Dickens (who I also love) or parts of Insomnia and Black House or conversely it can be REALLY bad...such as every word Austen ever wrote. :D

[Bluenose]

Interesting observation about the connections between IT and Insomnia - perhaps obviously, there's the character progression as well, in age I mean. I love the fact that SK can write about children and elderly characters and make them both seem real and believable.

Insomnia, while not my favourite King novel, defintely not his worst either, in my opinion.

[BeDaN]

I also loved Insomnia, it was the first non-DT King book I read. I loved Ralph too, not sure exactly why. I think it was because he was just a normal guy faced with a great task, and he was very kind. And it also added so much to the DT.

[flaggwalkstheline]

hi fellow tower-junkies, im new and this is my first post and ive tried 2 avoid blatant spoilers
anyway i want to know what u think of the prophecy about patrick danville and how he would save 2 men on the way 2 the tower, then the next time he shows up hes got those crazy drawing powers, had his tongue cut out and is being tortured by dandelo! what happened in between the ed deepneau incident when patrick was a kid and his being caught by dandelo? he saved susana i guess, but his actions (which in hindsight were predetermined) only speed roland on 2 his fate, do u think SK will ever resolve these questions? perhaps with peter straubs' help in the 3rd talisman book?

[alinda]

We can hope to have many questions answered. Yours is an interesting one too.
I have no speculations to share with you, say sorry.Welcome to the site , I am
sure your gonna have many other questions you have answered. Your sure to meet
some really fine folk, and endless hours of discussion, and fun!

http://www.witchyswikkedgraphix.com/categories/Welcome/welcome%20(28).jpg

[Jean]

You don't have to try to "avoid spoilers" - only use spoiler tags (the radioactive sign).

This thread is soon going to be merged.

[guitargal81]

maybe sk will write a retroactive story about Patricks adventures but in the 7th book he clearly states that he doesnt know his future store...ya ken it? I think it would make a great short story

[lasersguru]

Your post rocks!

[jhanic]

Maybe it'll be covered in a graphic novel.

John

[guitargal81]

Maybe it'll be covered in a graphic novel.

John

yeah!! thats a great idea!

[Empath of the White]

It'd be good material for a short story in a future collection a la The Little Sisters of Eluria.

I think that the Insomnia prophecy...I think it might be something that will come into play in Roland's last loop.

[theBeamisHome]

oooooooooooo....... what if Patrick and Jake are really twinners... and Patrick actually ended up with Dandelo because of Roland.. :orely:

lol i'm silly.

[Darkthoughts]

I was just thinking: who exactly is The Greenman from Insomnia?

I think I've cracked it!!! For thise who don't remember, a guy with a green aura so bright that Ralph can't see the face, gives Ralph Lois's earrings before he goes to battle the CK/Ed. Well!...

...in another thread Path had posted
Not to make any accusation, but what if, in Stephen's deepest heart, "In This Haze of Green and Gold" and when I read it I had a revelation...I reckon the green man is King! I mean, Ralph uses the earrings to defeat Ed, so it's a total Deus Ex Machina him being handed the earrings at that point, and it called to mind King's other appearance in one of his own tales (DT of course) where he also hands out Deus Ex Machina get out clauses to his characters.

[theyspunaweb]

really? King the greenman? maybe so.

I just finished this book but I don't like to think that so many possible charecters or elements in King's books could be King himself (people thought about him being in the tower, etc). I liked this book a lot, but another thing that I really is drawing attention away from the story for me is King's facination with the LOTR. I have been obsessed with those stories for a couple of my childish years, so I am a fan also. But I don't like how it's hobbit this, One ring to rule them all that, and then of course we know about his whole preface to the Dark Tower series. Also, I just picked up Duma Key, and within the first 30 or so pages there's a dog named Gandalf. Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, or have just been picking up the books he keeps writing about LOTR in. ahh I just wish it would be over now, but I bet it won't!

Other than that, the greenman did confuse me. I did like this story a lot, I liked the elements of the 3 bald doctors, and how King managed to describe the different "levels" that were traveled and the confusion of the auras. It made sense and I bet it was hard to describe those levels, but he introduced them to us in a way that was relateable. I liked most of the charecters and of course it was in Derry so it was interesting. The Crimson King seemed an even bigger deal in this book than in the Dark Tower books, simply because was just drawn away by patrick while he waited at the top of the tower, I thought, wow...you really aren't that bad after all. So I guess that was interesting to see.

[Odetta]

New book of the month!

Let's talk about Insomnia.

It has been many years since I have read it, but I remember I enjoyed it... how about everyone else?

[mia/susannah]

I borrowed this book from my BF parents, I really enjoyed it after I finally got into it. Which was hard at first, at least for me

[JQ The Gunslinger]

I loved this book. My favorite behind IT.

[Jean]

I loved the book except the last quarter or so (maybe one fifth) that I found boring - it's when all the fuss starts. Bears hate fuss in books.

[KaLikeAWheel]

This is one of my favorite King books. I just love Ralph. He's so kick-ass for an old fella! I know a lot of people think this book drags and is a bit bloated, but I loved every single word.

Donna

[candy]

how bizarre, i picked this book up at the weekend to re read after looking at one of the vote off links. its been years since i read it - so its in those strange realms where you kinda know what going to happen but it still surprises you. i do remember that i enjoyed it though:pirate:

[theyspunaweb]

I just read this book before the current one I am reading. I really enjoyed this book. It was so different than anything else I've read (so far and so far from King), I really enjoyed the bald doctors, and the auras. I loved the charecter developement...

I personally have an issue with the way Stephen King descirbed epilepsy and seizures in this book and in the one I am currently reading though (Duma Key), not all of them are the same, that is true but I never find his decriptions of either to ring true to what I have experienced as a person with epilepsy and it dissapoints me.

[ManOfWesternesse]

Insomnia is a great read. It's one of those I've re-read a great many times and never get tired of it. Good storyline. Great characters - Ralph is one of king's best. Lois. Love the 2 Doctors, Atropos was also brilliant, Old Dorrance! Poor old Rosie!


....I personally have an issue with the way Stephen King descirbed epilepsy and seizures in this book and in the one I am currently reading though (Duma Key), not all of them are the same, that is true but I never find his decriptions of either to ring true to what I have experienced as a person with epilepsy and it dissapoints me.
Yes spun, but King is notoriously poor on research detail at times, so I wouldn't put too much emphasis on it. This is a man who 'fans' the trigger of a revolver! (Any kid who ever read or watched a western would/should know better).

[jayson]

I know a lot of people think this book drags and is a bit bloated, but I loved every single word.

I agree completely. I think the pace of this book is perfect. I love pretty much everything about Insomnia. The character development is thorough and well executed. Atropos is one of the best (if not the best) antagonists in the King universe. Also, as a lifelong sufferer of sleeping problems, I found Ralph's issues in the first portion of the book well done by King. I have experienced a lot of it myself. With very few exceptions, it's King's longer works that always become my favorites. This one is right up there.

[pixiedark76]

I enjoy reading Insomia. Dorrance is one of my all time favorite charaters in SK books! He is so strange! I love it when he keeps saying "I don't mess in long time business!"

[theyspunaweb]

Dorrance was cool, he was all about poems...or kinda. King had a lot of "poems" or quotes in there. (Gosh I keep confusing this with some parts in duma, I know he referenced a song about digging for treasure, which I thought was a poem at first). He loves poems as the openings to things. Dorrance kept showing up at random and seemed to ramble but actually be as we well knew, insightful.

[jayson]

There is an elderly man in our complex who is always out taking walks. My wife and I have taken to referring to him as Dorrance.

[KaLikeAWheel]

I agree completely. I think the pace of this book is perfect. I love pretty much everything about Insomnia. The character development is thorough and well executed. Atropos is one of the best (if not the best) antagonists in the King universe. Also, as a lifelong sufferer of sleeping problems, I found Ralph's issues in the first portion of the book well done by King. I have experienced a lot of it myself. With very few exceptions, it's King's longer works that always become my favorites. This one is right up there.

I have had insomnia most of my adult life, and suspect that Sai King has experienced at least a bout or two of it. He just described the feeling of being bone tired and yet not at all sleepy (a concept my husband can just not understand) way too well. I escpecially loved the way he described that brittle, unreal fuzziness you get when chronically sleep deprived. And, yes, Atropos was a fabulous little villain, though King usually makes his bad guys more sympathetic. I don't remember feeling at all sympathetic towards Atropos.

Donna

[jayson]

He just described the feeling of being bone tired and yet not at all sleepy (a concept my husband can just not understand) way too well.

Absolutely. I feel like that's my default state and that King got it exactly right with Ralph.


And, yes, Atropos was a fabulous little villain, though King usually makes his bad guys more sympathetic. I don't remember feeling at all sympathetic towards Atropos.

I agree that I didn't feel sympathetic per se for Atropos, but I did empathize a bit. He represents the Random as much as Clotho and Lachesis represent the Purpose. Sure, Atropos is particularly nasty in that he takes souvenirs and he seems to like his "job" but if the Random is necessary, his job is necessary and therefore I couldn't just write him off as a homicidal maniac. If you have a job to do, you might as well do it well. :evil:

[ManOfWesternesse]

...I don't remember feeling at all sympathetic towards Atropos.

Agreed. Even when Ralph was kneeling on him & cutting the shit outa him with his own scalpel I was perfectly cool with it!

[KaLikeAWheel]

He represents the Random as much as Clotho and Lachesis represent the Purpose. Sure, Atropos is particularly nasty in that he takes souvenirs and he seems to like his "job" but if the Random is necessary, his job is necessary and therefore I couldn't just write him off as a homicidal maniac. If you have a job to do, you might as well do it well. :evil:

King being able to make you sympathize with the nastiest bad guy is one of the reasons he's my favorite author. Harold Lauder, John Rainbird, Annie Wilkes...Hell, he even made me a bit sympathetic toward Flagg at the end of DT:VII. But you're right. Atropos didn't need sympathy, he had a place in the universe that he had to fill and he filled it to the best of his abilities. Bless his evil little heart.

Donna

[Jaztastic]

I love Insomnia! It showed the Crimson King in his true light. It also better explained the whole "moving up levels of the Tower" thing. I wish it would have said exactly what Dorrance was.

Does anyone notice how SK's characters seem to forget afterwards when supernatural events occur? For the longest time Ralph & Lois forgot the whole experience with the bald doctors, just like in The Dark Tower when Susannah steps through that door, she starts forgetting all of it. Is this a device to protect their sanity?

[theyspunaweb]

or like how is back in the desert after reaching the tower? and we assume this isn't the first time he's taken the journey, though he didn't seem to know that on the way...

I think maybe because their deeds were fulfilled involving the tower, they were allowed to go back to their lives. Their purpose to the tower was completed? And in Roland's case...it is necessary for the Tower?

either way it is interesting.

[Brice]

It's a device to excuse the fact that King really wants things unresolved and unexplained...at least to some degree I think.

[candy]

just finished insomnia again really enjoyed it. now i just need to think what to read next:orely:

[Ka-Shume]

Finished Insomnia for the first time maybe 15 minutes ago, first Stephen King book I've read outside of the Dark Tower. I was utterly blown away, it was a fantastic read and I revelled in it every time I got to take a break from my day to see what mischief was going to find Ralph Roberts.

[jayson]

Glad to hear you liked it Ka-Shume. It seems to be one people either love or hate. I am definitely the former. :)

[Ka-Shume]

Glad to hear you liked it Ka-Shume. It seems to be one people either love or hate. I am definitely the former. :)

I don't know how someone could possibly hate such a marvelous book, I suppose you COULD say its a bit slow in the beginning and/ or at certain parts but anyone on this forum who got through the Dark Tower I don't understand could have much of an issue getting through a single 800 page book.

Though quite irrelevant I just wanted to say in my previous post I had firstly typed 'what mischief would Ralph Roberts find' but realized almost before my fingers had tapped the keys that it was quite literally the other way around. xD

[divemaster]

Ok, I'm the newbie and I guess I'm going to be the first person in this thread to post *not* liking Insomnia. Not much at all. I've read every single one of King's novels (up to Duma Key) so I do have a good basis of comparison. It was a while ago and I only read it once, but I do recall thinking things like "this is utterly ridiculous" and comparing the story to something Clive Barker may have written.

My problem with Barker (and with Insomnia, the best I can remember) is that there are so many places in the story where the author just seems to pull something out of his ass. Otherwise known as "making it up as you go." I know King lets his stories write themselves, and there is something to be said for that approach (it can be fresh). But this book, more than any other just seemed so, well, random. The eye-rolling factor was high.

Having said all that, I do plan on reading it again. Now that I've read the entire Dark Tower series I suppose I might have a chance for a better appreciation.

[Jean]

Much as I love Insomnia, I liked the Barker comparison above. My problem with Barker is that he can never stop after he has finished - the intrigue is exhausted, all development stops, but the fuss goes on until the story loses all marginal interest it ever used to have. Both Talisman and Insomnia are very much like that for me - the last quarter (or fifth) is gratuituously long and fussy to the point of losing the point.

[Melike]

I love Insomnia and it's weird style. Seeing auras, travels between the levels of tower, the little bold doctors ( and of course Atropos :wub: ).
The scene in the Atropos' cavern...

[Fishonabike]

Such a great book. This is one I have to be careful with... I can open it to any page and get sucked right in. Find myself standing at the bookshelf two hours later aching from standing in one spot for so long.

[candy]

i really liked this book. and i can see the clive barker comparison too> i'm also a fan of his which is why i likd this book. the auras, the different planes etc. but mostly the fact that two old farts save the day!

there hope for old farts everywhere:borg:

[mia/susannah]

This is one of my favorite King books. I just love Ralph. He's so kick-ass for an old fella! I know a lot of people think this book drags and is a bit bloated, but I loved every single word.

Donna

I agree with you. Ralph was quite the fiesty old man!! I loved him!

[ManOfWesternesse]

.....there hope for old farts everywhere:borg:

YAY!!! Go us! :lol:

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/BEAR-HUG.jpg

[alinda]

:wtf:I too am happy that someone other than the big strong hero type is depicted on these pages. As an old fart, I am able to say that we can and do save the day very often.:wtf:

[John_and_Yoko]

I loved the book, though to a lesser degree than The Dark Tower and IT in that I didn't feel a sense of depression/withdrawal after reading it, as I did after reading the latter two stories.

I see Stephen King's talent in these stories as being the ability to take an ages-old story (and not even hiding this fact from anyone) and yet keeping it fresh and new and relevant so that even though you "know" what's going to happen, you become one with the story as you read about HOW it happens. Insomnia, for example, self-identifies as the "Herod" motif (although it doesn't point out that this was originally a "father vs. son" motif, not a "good vs. evil" motif), but as I say, even though I knew this from the word "go", I still loved it. I think that's a large measure of what King meant when he said "endings are heartless"--I've never understood the idea of not reading a book (or seeing a play or film or whatever) because you know how it turns out.

For me, I HAVE to know what's going on to better appreciate it. If this isn't the case, and knowing beforehand would ruin it for me, then it won't hold up as well upon multiple readings/viewings, in which case (in my opinion) it's not good quality. I knew the ending to The Dark Tower before I even started reading any of it, but that didn't change how I felt when I finally came to it after reading everything before it.

[AcidBumbler]

I absolutely adore Insomnia. It's one of my all-time favourite books full-stop, not only within Stephen King's. Saying that... I think my top ten favourite books would consist of only 2 authors anyway haha (King and Terry Pratchett)
I love the connections with DT now that I've started to read the series, and I've always liked Ralph and Lois.

I don't think it was too slow-paced at all! The pace is fine for me.
I really like King's description of Ed when he's doing that chickeney thing with his head, too. It's somehow eerie instead of funny.

[AcidBumbler]

P.s. how the hell do you make the spoiler tag work without it deciding to embolden the spoiler whilst also tagging a duplicate of it? :beat:

[Unfound One]

Highlight what you want in the spoiler box and the click the radioactive button.

Like this!


The next button over, the one that actually says Spoiler, gives you the option of labeling your spoiler, and you use it the same way.

Again, like this!

[AcidBumbler]

Thankyou, Unfound one! I was clicking on the one which labels them haha.
Cheers :dance:

[Unfound One]

No problemo - call me SJ. :)

[AcidBumbler]

Oki dokes ^+^
Thanks, SJ xD

[GirlGoneNineteen]

I just finished this a few weeks ago and thought it was great. Not his best work since it is very slow to get the story going, but I really enjoyed it by the end.
I literally gasped out loud at the blood bank when I discovered that the little boy Ralph and Lois were meant to save was Patrick. The whole story, basically, was to make sure Patrick was there at the end to help Roland get into the tower. Mind was blown, true story.

[Jean]

yes, it was amazing!

I have edited your post to specify what the spoiler refers to, because people might think it's an Insomnia spoiler (hardly anybody consistently remembers that we do not mark them in "spoiler" threads), and click on it thinking thery are safe! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[GirlGoneNineteen]

My bad! ><

[ola]

I just finished this last night - it seems like some things in the book would be totally random without reading DT first.

Also the image that popped into my head with the mention of the Green Man is the Greenman

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4668754/WiccanGreenMan_Full.jpg

I have a feeling that isn't what King meant though. :) It must be someone with a bright green aura - I like the Steven King theory. He could have been hinting at his eventual appearance in the books.

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Just finished Insomnia about a week ago & wanted to jump in re: Atropos. I am actually taking a Death & Dying class & wrote a short essay about how the book deals with death, because I found it really interesting that although it is made very clear that Atropos has his role in the universe and is necessary, he's still painted as "the bad guy" and is a really nasty guy.

I though it spoke volumes about how King (and a lot of people) view the difference between an acceptable death and a tragic death...

[Jean]

that's right, but there's no denying, either, that he is a nasty guy, regardless of whether or not he is necessary in the order of things.

[Ves'Ka Gan]

No, I wouldn't argue that for a moment, I think though, that writing him as a really nasty guy, rather than someone who had a job to do & did it is as revealing about death attitudes as anything...ETA: What I mean to say, is that even being an agent of the random, it would be possible to go about the job in the caring, kind way that Clotho & Lachesis do, however Atropos does not, instead he acts more like a murderer than an agent of the universe...

Another interesting side note: today was the last day before finals in my death & dying class and we discussed/watched a film about near death experiences, I was surprised to see that many people see a cord that they describe much like king describes the "balloon strings" that connects them to their bodies as they "travel the tunnel" and one woman said she felt as though this cord is what pulled her back into her body at the time of her near death experience. Strange stuff, huh?

[Brice]

A Death and Dying class? :scared: I think this is one class I'd want to fail. I fear what passing means. :unsure:

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Its not a very creepy or cryptic kind of class at all. Really, it focuses on dealing with loss & grieving and how cultures around the world deal with it. It's more about finding your own understanding of what death, dying & grief mean to you than anything else. I would actually say someone with a fear of death & what it means would benefit greatly from the class, as it forces you to come to terms with what you believe.

[Brice]

Oh, I knew what it was meant to be. I was just kidding: passing a death and dying class means dying. :lol:

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Oh duh!!! I thought you meant you feared what "passing away" meant....ignore the mush-brained pregnant lady.

[Brice]

:couple:

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Thanks for understanding... and to bring it full circle--the pregnancy is causing me INSOMNIA, which is why I started the book (some irony in using a novel about insomnia to try and get to sleep), but it's really making the little obvious things fly right over my head!

[GirlGoneNineteen]

I took a Death & Dying class in college, it was actually fascinating.
Back OT, I thought Atropos was a neat representation of what can happen when those with power end up doing the "dirty job" - it became about watching the dying suffer rather than a necessary evil.

[Brice]

Well, you might as well enjoy your job, right? :lol:

[Ves'Ka Gan]

Haha--I guess so. But I think that Clothos & Lachesis "enjoyed" their job while being generally "good", it's just as possibly to take someone by the random and be respectful of them.

[jonahwriter]

Re-reading this at moment and throughly enjoying it. Still think it's one of King's most underrated achievements, slow pace and elderly characters and bizarre supernatural fantasy elements all create a wonderfully unusual novel.

[jonahwriter]

If this was made into a film, how about John Mahoney as Ralph and Marsha Mason as Lois? They already made a great couple several years ago in "Frasier"! :rock:

[soapmaker19]

Ves'Ka Gan, very interesting point about the personality differences of Clotho and Lachesis as compared to Atropos, and how it reflects attitudes towards different kinds of death. Though I think we could all agree that not every "tragic" or untimely/violent/gruesome death automatically serves the random. Which is comforting in a way. Kind of reminds me of the part in Wolves when they briefly contemplate what it might mean to use Black 13 and the door to go to Dallas November 22, 1963 and save JFK. Sounds great, but who knows what might've been different in a bad way down the line?

I love Insomnia and have read it several times, but I never really thought about the little bald docs in quite that way. Stuff like this is why these boards are so much fun.

Totally dig the Operation Ivy avatar/quotes as well, btw. :thumbsup:

[lowdown]

I'm only 1/4 done with Insomnia and ...im actually struggling with that very problem ....but for me i cant get to sleep....once i get there im alright.....anyway...the book kinda slipped through the cracks on me ...i knew i should have read it before the last DT....at least... i thought i fucked up but i was so depressed by finishing the series that I'm grasping at any connections
....need to read black house again too.........i only read it when it came out....its been awhile for me

[DoctorDodge]

Finished this a couple of months ago, and I've gotta say that i LOVED the ending. I think what makes it work is that, if you stop before the epilogue, then you could have your ideal happy ending: evil's punished, our two heroes survive and they all live happily ever after. The epilogue, however, changes that completely, but thankfully avoids the horror cliche of having the main good guys killed off after all and goes for a much more tragic ending.

I can't help but think, at the end of the day, that that's the way to look at life: there's no such thing as a happy ending, only in stories, and that's because stories know when to stop. Brilliantly bittersweet way for King to end Insomnia, I think.

[lowdown]

Finished this a couple of months ago, and I've gotta say that i LOVED the ending. I think what makes it work is that, if you stop before the epilogue, then you could have your ideal happy ending: evil's punished, our two heroes survive and they all live happily ever after. The epilogue, however, changes that completely, but thankfully avoids the horror cliche of having the main good guys killed off after all and goes for a much more tragic ending.

I can't help but think, at the end of the day, that that's the way to look at life: there's no such thing as a happy ending, only in stories, and that's because stories know when to stop. Brilliantly bittersweet way for King to end Insomnia, I think.

Sai King always ends his shit in that way 9 out of 10 times....from experience there is no happy ending for sure ...

[lowdown]

half way through......i know im slow.....but damn im loving this book im so stupid ffor waiting this long to read it

[lowdown]

just finished last night .....wow ...i should have read this along time ago.....man i would say top five at least:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Jean]

just finished last night .....wow ...i should have read this along time ago.....man i would say top five at least:thumbsup::thumbsup:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[lowdown]

it was perfect king book ...........good but kinda slow at first ...wich didn't bother me ......i like good character development anyway ....but with the overt DT connection....i would have dropped my jaw if i would have read this book before SOS
but ....i got a question ....was ed deepaneu little girl the same one from the 1999 new york dark tower.....i cant remember the ladies name....but i know she was niece to the good deepaneu?????????????.....also confused about that connection too....KIng is the master of trickery and smoke and mirrors ....but thats part of my love for his work....

if ka/destiny is a wheel (they mention that allot in this book)then how can't we see Roland again ...this reaffirms my belief KING will have to bring back somehow

:thumbsup::rose::thumbsup:

[John_and_Yoko]

Okay, question time:

With what point in The Dark Tower series timeline does Insomnia correspond?

I ask because although the latter was published in 1994 and presumably takes place at a similar point in time (certainly it'd be after 1985, with the events of IT in the past), the one time it mentions Roland it says "...in a desert that was the apotheosis of all deserts, a man named Roland turned over in his bedroll and slept easily once again beneath the alien constellations."

The "apotheosis of all deserts" is of course the Mohaine Desert, which Roland starts out in at the beginning of The Gunslinger. What's more, the wording seems to suggest it's referring to Chapter 1, "The Gunslinger," before Roland has even met Jake yet (and presumably in the "present" time, after Roland has left Tull and Brown behind, in pursuit of the man in black).

Does that mean that Insomnia can be thought of as a "sort-of" prequel to The Dark Tower series? Of course it wouldn't do to read it for the first time BEFORE the series, any more than it would do to read The Magician's Nephew before The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

But does that make sense? It would certainly seem to justify Patrick Danville's entry into the series at the end of the last volume--the boy's there at the beginning and the end of Roland's journey. Might that even suggest why the time loop starts specifically where it does, and not further back? Might it have something to do with Patrick Danville? (Or is it just a coincidence?)

Thoughts?

[Seneschal]

.

Does that mean that Insomnia can be thought of as a "sort-of" prequel to The Dark Tower series?


i would say this is a fair assumption, with the exception that you take "timelines" with a grain of salt within the DT universe. but generally, these events seem to take place on a level of the Tower that coincides with a time in Roland's world somewhere after Little Sisters of Eluria but right before The Gunslinger.

It could also be argued that the "when" of Insomnia is sort of independent to that actual cameo of Roland in the desert. Essentially that when Danville was saved through the events in the book, he was such an important character that the effect acted like a shockwave transcending all times and all worlds. so it would sort of suggest that this is where Insomnia first "intersects" with Roland and his quest. so the word "prequel" is a little misleading.


Might that even suggest why the time loop starts specifically where it does, and not further back? Might it have something to do with Patrick Danville? (Or is it just a coincidence?)


this is a much more interesting possibility, and I had never even thought of that connection. the time loop would have to start after danville being saved, because it is completely out of Roland's ability/knowledge/control to save him at that point. very cool idea, i like that a lot. as for coincidence...hard to say. i suspect not actually. and if it wasn't, that is some really nice tale-spinning and i do not doubt for a second King's ability in that regard.

in general i liked the book though it was as many point out slow to start. I have no complaints because I am a DT fan and can see all the connections. i wonder though, what the hell do all the non DT stephen king fans think about a book like this?

think about it like this. say you never read the DT, not a single book. it is possible that you have very little knowledge of the true nature of the Crimson King, who Patrick Danville will become, and who this guy Roland is. so essentially, you read this book and it would appear that although SOMETHING was resolved you have absolutely no idea what it was. a boy was saved and some red-fish thing called the crimson king was ultimately defeated, but why would you care? you really wouldn't, and i could totally see people being disappointed in this book if they were not DT fans. the ending to someone like that would appear to be either extremely vague or just entirely too related to some other story that they know nothing about.

[mae]

in general i liked the book though it was as many point out slow to start. I have no complaints because I am a DT fan and can see all the connections. i wonder though, what the hell do all the non DT stephen king fans think about a book like this?

think about it like this. say you never read the DT, not a single book. it is possible that you have very little knowledge of the true nature of the Crimson King, who Patrick Danville will become, and who this guy Roland is. so essentially, you read this book and it would appear that although SOMETHING was resolved you have absolutely no idea what it was. a boy was saved and some red-fish thing called the crimson king was ultimately defeated, but why would you care? you really wouldn't, and i could totally see people being disappointed in this book if they were not DT fans. the ending to someone like that would appear to be either extremely vague or just entirely too related to some other story that they know nothing about.

It might've been vague, but I loved the book, and I never read a single DT book prior to that, didn't even know about it. Insomnia was one of my first King books in fact. I loved the story, the pacing, the characters. I should re-read it soon now that I've read DT.

[Darkthoughts]

I loved the story, the pacing, the characters.

Same here :couple:

[Kidd Ikarus]

I finally manned up and read Insomnia and I gott say I loved every minute of it. I'm not a big reader . . . In fact, reading the dark tower series in 2 months was probably the greatest 'reading' achievement I've ever had. But I finished this book in 3 days, so that's good for me. I understood most of it, excluding the ties to 'It', which I am planning to read next. The only single thin I didn't understand was 'the green man'. But after I finished, I came to a similiar conclusion that DarkThoughts came up with a couple of years and a couple of pages ago. The only thing I could think of that it was a ' deus ex machina' and to tell the truth, after reading ths thread, I was happy to see someone else thought so too. But over all . . . Fantastic book. I loved it. And I was also happy to see other members got goosebumps when the more significant connections to roland and the dark tower were made that I did.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I lied. There's were 2 things I didn't understand. The Greenman and Old Dorrance. I read on wikipedia, where it was stated that the voice that told ralph, clotho and lachesis during their bargain 'It may be so' could have been either Maturin or Gan. This didn't confuse me at all. Almost immediately I assumed that it was Gan's voice. However, now having a day to think about it, and excluding the 'Greenman' conspiracy . . . Maybe Dorrance was Maturin . . . Or . . . Maybe Dorrance was King? Hahaha. I don't know its late, and my mind tends to venture off at this particular time . . . Anyway . . . Maybe food for thought to those here that are not only more intelligent than I am, but more well versed in the works of Sai King.

[Seneschal]

I lied. There's were 2 things I didn't understand. The Greenman and Old Dorrance. I read on wikipedia, where it was stated that the voice that told ralph, clotho and lachesis during their bargain 'It may be so' could have been either Maturin or Gan. This didn't confuse me at all. Almost immediately I assumed that it was Gan's voice. However, now having a day to think about it, and excluding the 'Greenman' conspiracy . . . Maybe Dorrance was Maturin . . . Or . . . Maybe Dorrance was King? Hahaha. I don't know its late, and my mind tends to venture off at this particular time . . . Anyway . . . Maybe food for thought to those here that are not only more intelligent than I am, but more well versed in the works of Sai King.

my take on this subject is that King laces something he calls "the touch" among many of his characters, particularly in The Dark Tower. It is usually a term used to describe psychic and/or mental powers that others may not necessarily have. So I believe that Dorrance has a variant of the Touch, though maybe in that world they don't call it that ("the touch" seems to be a Roland term). Ralph and Lois must elevate themselves in order to see these levels, but Old Dorr generally can just see them because of his ability. It is why he appears strange to most people. It is also why he knows he is not part of the story and basically can do nothing to help the main characters.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I don't agree with that. I know what the touch is and if I think anyone had it, it was Ralph and Lois. Especially when they began to read peoples thoughts and more through their auras. Dorrance was something completely different. His aura was a spectrum of light and at one point describe like shining a light through a diamond or diamonds I think . . . But he was the only character in the book who had this quality.

[Kidd Ikarus]

After finishing Insomnia, I started reading It. Almost done . . . At about page 800. But in "It" I read that the town of Derry is named for the County Derry in Ireland. This is especially cool to me, because my ancestors are from County Derry in Ireland. My last name is Kane. My aunt who is our family historian, found out that we were "O'Kane" before we immigrated to America. Somewhere in between, we dropped the "O" and became just Kane. But when I read this I got really excited. Its so cool!

EDIT: and I just thought of another cool coincidence, after my stupid one-track mind settled down. My grandmother's maiden name is "King". Although her family originated in southern Ireland.

[Dan]

Just finished Insomnia. Wow, I loved it! In my favorite list for sure. I think I will read IT next.

[John_Kenton]

I used to think that Insomnia was a very important point in the whole Dark Tower development. I think I read somewhere (was it in that WC Stroby interview?) that King got stuck with the first draft. My theory is that he "saved" the book, made it work by linking it to the DT universe, possibly some time around 1992 or 1993... I'm not sure whether he planned to link other works to DT before that. What's your opinion on that?

[mystima]

I liked many aspects of this book, but the most memorable in my opinion is when he is trying to get Lois to see what he is seeing and he "makes" her see by making glasses out of his hands and then she finally does see what he is seeing....never in my life have I ever seen this done in any other form of story telling whether in movies or books. It was a 'wow' moment for me.

[harrison ryan]

I used to think that Insomnia was a very important point in the whole Dark Tower development. I think I read somewhere (was it in that WC Stroby interview?) that King got stuck with the first draft. My theory is that he "saved" the book, made it work by linking it to the DT universe, possibly some time around 1992 or 1993... I'm not sure whether he planned to link other works to DT before that. What's your opinion on that?

I think you could be on to something.

[John_Kenton]

Ha, I found the source, it was in fact WC Stroby's interview conducted in September 1991:

QUOTE
I spent about four months last year writing a novel called "Insomnia." It's a long piece of work, it's about 550 pages long. It's no good. It's not publishable. And I've been writing and publishing books for a long time. Taken piece by piece and chapter by chapter, it is (good). But I didn't get this one out of the ground. It broke. And I sometimes go back to it and I say: "Well, I could do this to it," and then something comes up and says: "No, you really can't, because of this." One image is that archeological one of trying to get a story out of the ground and saying it broke, but what's a clearer one in this case is to say it's like having a pipe sculpture - except none of the pipes thread together the way they're supposed to. Some do, but a lot of them don't, so it's sort of a mess. My reaction to that was to put the manuscript away, and that's what I've done. (...) The thing that hurts is that the last 80 or 90 pages are wonderful (laughs). But things just don't connect, it doesn't have that novelistic roundness that it should have. And maybe some day you'll read it, but it won't be for a long time."
UNQUOTE

If you want to read the whole piece, it's well worth it, go to http://www.wallacestroby.com/writersonwriting_king.html

Given that this was around the time when King wrote Dolores Claiborne and Gerald's Game, it is intriguing to speculate whether he originally planned to write yet another mainstream novel?! I sure would like to read that first draft and see what elements of the published book were there in the first place ;-)

[mtdman]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

[Jean]

oh

[mae]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

:cry:

[jhanic]

Sorry, mtdman, but I completely disagree with you. Yes, the build-up is a bit slow, but the concepts are great, as are Ralph and Lois.

John

[richie01]

just finished reading Insomnia for the first time and really enjoyed it.

one thing i wanted to ask, has anyone ever made the connection between IT and Insomnia in regards to the balloon strings?

The creature IT was always talking about 'they float' etc and in Insomnia we are introduced to the notion of everyone having a balloon string aura attached to them...

[WeDealInLead]

I finally decided to read it and finished it in a few days. I think it's a good one. Not Top 10 material but I'll put it on the Duma Key/BOB/HIA level.

[Dan]

Glad you liked it. It was one of my favorites.

[stkmw02]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

If King had left this in the trash, I may never have read any of his books. Insomnia was the gateway drug to my King addiction.

[Brice]

....and now you are a full fledged junkie. :D

[BountyHunter]

Just finished this, in two days. :smile: Absolutely loved it. In a way, it reminds me of my novel I wrote a year or so back (which actually has a small Dark Tower nod in it, as well). I should dig it out and get busy on my final draft of it.

Now, which King book should I read next? Hmmm...

[craigobau]

Insomnia is also one of my favourite SK books.

Great characters and part of the DT universe.....what's not to like!

[mae]

The Losers Club podcast on the novel:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/consequence-of-sound/the-losers-club-a-stephen-king-podcast/e/77280019#/

[RichardX]

Ralph Roberts is one of King's more likeable characters. I always envisioned him being played by Jack Lemmon. The book itself is middling. It's unfortunate that it contains so much in the way of politics. Likely why it has never been made into a movie. The plot also seems a bit derivative of Thinner (weight vs sleep loss).

[CyberGhostface]

I don't know why it's a problem for stories to reflect politics but I doubt it's the reason why it never had an adaptation. It's a very long and often slow novel that centers around old people being unable to sleep and then we have just weird stuff like said old people having psychic battles with little bald men and the Crimson King appearing as an old lady/catfish in a rocking chair. That's on top of the heavy Dark Tower connections that, if Hearts in Atlantis was any indication, would have to be scrapped entirely.

[mae]

It's one of my favorite King novels. I do hope we eventually see a faithful big-budget adaptation. A streaming limited series would be amazing. I want it to be freaky and weird and surreal. When I read it back in the 1990s, I didn't know anything about the Dark Power, so it just added to the weirdness. And of course the dreamlike atmosphere of the auras and the little bald doctors. So good!

[St. Troy]

It's unfortunate that it contains so much in the way of politics.

I kind of like how the abortion issue is handled in Insomnia: King gets irritating when politics overlays the story and characters like ugly paint on wood (lime green paint doesn't help the bookcase stand up - do I need to know that a given character has her panties in a predictable bunch over a former President that never actually ended the world? No, I don't), but in Insomnia, abortion is a specific and discrete element of the story, essentially being what it already is - something that will get people riled up and at each other's throats. (Yes, all the pro-abortion characters are sympathetic and all the anti-abortion characters are literally insane, so I can see someone having a less charitable view than mine).


The plot also seems a bit derivative of Thinner (weight vs sleep loss).

I think they are separated by much more than they have in common - much more.

[St. Troy]

...It's a very long and often slow novel that centers around old people being unable to sleep and then we have just weird stuff like said old people having psychic battles with little bald men and the Crimson King appearing as an old lady/catfish in a rocking chair. That's on top of the heavy Dark Tower connections that, if Hearts in Atlantis was any indication, would have to be scrapped entirely.

Pretty much all of this.

Insomnia is one of those ones where, if they did adapt it, I 100% expect they'll feel the need to make it something totally different: replace its gradual, pensive side (which is crucial - even in the midst of action, there is much reflection on and examination of the bigger picture) in favor of pedestrian storytelling ("here's what people want!") and basically tighten it up in all the ways that will make it unrecognizable - and what would be the point? Insomnia deserves better.

[St. Troy]

I do hope we eventually see a faithful big-budget adaptation.

I'd take faithful on any budget.


A streaming limited series would be amazing.

Novel adaptations pretty much demand the series route (now that we've seen what they can do) to allow true storytelling (the dirty little secret of movie adaptations of novels is that they can't do the job because they can't do true length or depth (hey now!)).


I want it to be freaky and weird and surreal. When I read it back in the 1990s, I didn't know anything about the Dark Power, so it just added to the weirdness. And of course the dreamlike atmosphere of the auras and the little bald doctors. So good!

The potential for something good and distinctive is certainly there.

[Ben Mears]

I do hope we eventually see a faithful big-budget adaptation.
Novel adaptations pretty much demand the series route (now that we've seen what they can do) to allow true storytelling (the dirty little secret of movie adaptations of novels is that they can't do the job because they can't do true length or depth (hey now!)).


+1. I wish the upcoming'Salem's Lot remake would have gone the series route; 90-120 minutes isn't enough time for the slow build up that makes the story so good.

[RichardX]

It's unfortunate that it contains so much in the way of politics.

I kind of like how the abortion issue is handled in Insomnia: King gets irritating when politics overlays the story and characters like ugly paint on wood (lime green paint doesn't help the bookcase stand up - do I need to know that a given character has her panties in a predictable bunch over a former President that never actually ended the world? No, I don't), but in Insomnia, abortion is a specific and discrete element of the story, essentially being what it already is - something that will get people riled up and at each other's throats. (Yes, all the pro-abortion characters are sympathetic and all the anti-abortion characters are literally insane, so I can see someone having a less charitable view than mine).


The plot also seems a bit derivative of Thinner (weight vs sleep loss).

I think they are separated by much more than they have in common - much more.

A mainstream movie in which the abortion debate is a backdrop to the plot would be box office cancer. Hollywood will never touch that. I do agree that King's approach to politics was a bit more nuanced at the time this book was written (which isn't saying much since he has gone off the deep end like his elderly characters in the book). I never bought the premise - even trying to suspend disbelief - that a Maine town would break down into violence over the visit of an abortion advocate. That was over the top. Oddly, if you set the novel in modern times and change the discussion to more recent divisive topics (e.g. pandemic), it would sadly be more believable.

[CyberGhostface]

He hasn’t gone off the deep end at all. You just disagree with his politics.

[RichardX]

He hasn’t gone off the deep end at all. You just disagree with his politics.

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. King is entitled to his opinions just like anyone. It is the endless nature of it. Completely obsessed on the topic. Tiresome.

[CyberGhostface]

You once called King a coward and a rat fink for signing a petition to support trans people. You said he went off the deep end when he told Trump to concede after losing the election. It is 100% because you don’t like what he thinks.

[St. Troy]

King's "politics" used to consist of policy positions; now he finds it hard to avoid repeated mentions of a guy that hurt his feelings - that's a change, and not a good one.

[CyberGhostface]

He hasn’t even mentioned Trump in a month, and that was an indirect reference. Unless you’re bothered that King doesn’t like Putin?

[St. Troy]

He hasn’t even mentioned Trump in a month, and that was an indirect reference.

A whole month - I stand corrected?


...Unless you’re bothered that King doesn’t like Putin?

TDS continues to be like magic mushrooms for the imagination.

[CyberGhostface]

Actually now it looks like two months at least. Maybe four tweets in all since the year started per the search.

So what’s the problem here besides him not sharing your political views?

[St. Troy]

...So what’s the problem here besides him not sharing your political views?

Whether he or anyone else shares (or fails to share) my political views was never a problem; what is happening is that some of us have made an observation, one which anyone willing to be honest with themselves - liberal or conservative - could have made: of King's increasing, and increasingly specific, political content in his writing, featuring obsession with one individual.

Your question suggests that I would enjoy reading an author who repeatedly peppered his writing with bits about whatever I might think liberals have wrong - but the truth is, I would tire of it and hope he/she would snap out of it.

[St. Troy]

RichardX put it more clearly and succinctly:


It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. King is entitled to his opinions just like anyone. It is the endless nature of it. Completely obsessed on the topic. Tiresome.

Perhaps you missed this post; perhaps something is preventing you from understanding it.

[CyberGhostface]

Oh I understood it. It was just disingenuous. If you were completely neutral about this you wouldn’t have championed JK Rowling when she went off about trans people as she is far more obsessed about the topic than King was about Trump. But because you agree with her, there was nothing wrong with it.

The notion that King is “obsessed” with Trump is just there to discredit his views. I.e. King threw in a few barbs at Trump in Billy Summers so therefore he has “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. King makes four tweets about Trump since the start of the year. He’s “obsessed”.