Randall Flagg Discussion - *possible Spoilers*

[razz]

i realized Carmody and Flagg have some things in common.
maybe she's him on another level of the tower.

sacrifice of the innocent
the usage of "my life for you"
saying the righteous and sane are "the ones who did this"

[John_and_Yoko]

i realized Carmody and Flagg have some things in common.
maybe she's him on another level of the tower.

sacrifice of the innocent
the usage of "my life for you"
saying the righteous and sane are "the ones who did this"

What about Sylvia Pittston? Besides, it wasn't Randall Flagg who said "My life for you," it was said TO him.

[Daghain]

Who the hell is Carmody?

*Old and slow* :lol:

[obscurejude]

Who the hell is Carmody?

*Old and slow* :lol:

I don't know either. Typical Razz thread.

[Daghain]

:lol:

The only Carmody I know is on "What Not to Wear" :lol:

[obscurejude]

Who the fuck is Carmody? Just by having a name like that, I can't stand the bastard.

Maybe that's the one Daghain. :lol: Was it a him/her or it?

[Daghain]

SHE is the makeup artist for "What Not to Wear".

Seriously. Her name is Carmody. :lol:

[obscurejude]

Well, I suppose that Carmody is not Flagg based on your description Daghain.

I feel so informed by this thread. :sarcasm: :lol:

[Daghain]

:lol:

[Unfound One]

:lol: I love you both.

[obscurejude]

So, Carmody sacrificed an innocent hair-do? Maybe made someone more metro than they were anticipating. Is Carmody the bitch that made everybody doubt Ryan Seacrest' sexuality.

"My life for you" Why would a hair stylist say that, still trying to figure it out.

I realize that being a hair stylist isn't the most glorious thing in the world, but why take it out on the "sane and righteous"?

A bigger question, what the fuck does this have to do with Flagg? Why would anyone suggest that Flagg would be a hair stylist for a T.V. show on another level of the tower?

[Daghain]

No, no, no. She was MAKEUP.

Some English guy did hair. :lol:

[obscurejude]

No, no, no. She was MAKEUP.

Some English guy did hair. :lol:

My bad, so Flagg is supposed to be a makeup artist who blames his lot on the sane and righteous.

Flagg= Makeup Artist

Still not seeing it Razz. Carmody, what kind of name is that? It reminds me of a Canadian band called Cromeo- right you just throw together Chrome and Romeo and its supposed to make sense. Karma and ____? Carmody...

[Daghain]

Hey, makeup to the evil may be some lucrative position we're not yet aware of. :lol:

[Unfound One]

I really want to know who the hell Carmody actually is now.
I'l like to see if we can fit in all the nonsense above into Razz's theory...

[John_and_Yoko]

Um...The Mist, anyone?

Seriously, NO ONE knew...???

[Jean]

razz: please provide some background on Carmody, or this thread will be sent to the clearing.

[obscurejude]

Um...The Mist, anyone?

Seriously, NO ONE knew...???

Mist?

[John_and_Yoko]

The Mist, from Skeleton Crew? It was made into a movie last year....

Mrs. Carmody was the villain....



*is starting to wonder whether someone went back in time and erased its existence*

[Darkthoughts]

:lol: Yeah guys, The Mist...Carmody...religious nut job...step away from the What Not To Wear boxset right now!

Although Razz, I don't see any more connection between her and Flagg than you could attribute to any "baddie".

[Daghain]

Oh yeah...THAT Carmody. :lol:

Had he said MRS. Carmody, I would likely have gotten it. But seriously, the chick from What Not to Wear was the first thing that popped into my head. :lol:

[obscurejude]

But seriously, the chick from What Not to Wear was the first thing that popped into my head. :lol:

And I'm so glad it did. :lol:

[Hannah]

Not Flagg, just a crazy bitch.

[Brice]

Ummm...this entire thread= :rofl:

It was Trashcan Man from The Stand who said "My life for you", razz.


And No, I don't really think it likely that Mrs. Carmody was an incarnation of Flagg. She was just another religious nutjob like every community has. She just had oppurtunity too.

[Daghain]

Didn't Tick Tock also say "My life for you" to Walter?

And yeah, she's a religious fundie nutjob, but she's no Flagg.

[Brice]

Didn't Tick Tock also say "My life for you" to Walter?



Yes, he did I believe.

[razz]

carmody is the paranoid psycho old person fro the mist. she began drawing members to her through what she said, and wanted to sacrifice someone. Flagg kinda did that. she was fond of (at least in the film, where she used it three or four times) the phrase "my life for you". She, Like Flagg, would take something that was nobody's fault, and blame them.

[Aaron]

Yeah, I am almost positive that she never said it in the actual story. Darabont just added it as a nod to the DT folk, just like he did with the DT movie poster in the opening sequence.

[Brice]

Yeah, I am almost positive that she never said it in the actual story. Darabont just added it as a nod to the DT folk, just like he did with the DT movie poster in the opening sequence.


Yes, and she only said it once in the movie when the giant buglike creature landed on her.

[razz]

don't you hate it when Hollywood picks on us DT fans. the nazis

[Daghain]

And the thread has officially been Godwined! Discussion over! :lol:

[Jean]

Didn't Tick Tock also say "My life for you" to Walter?



Yes, he did I believe.
and Lloyd before him, if my memory serves me well

[Brice]

Yes, I might be wrong, but I think I recall him saying that when Flagg released him from prison when he was dining on the rat. Is that where you mean?

[Darkthoughts]

You are not wrong :)

[Daghain]

Oh, yeah! It's been a long time since I read The Stand. It's on the reread list!

[Ves'Ka Gan]

I don't remember the book clearly--but in the movie she was a Christian nutter, and in the book wasn't she some sort of pagan something or other??

I actually didn't mind them changing her to a Christian fundie, only because I felt like it made the story a little more frightening, because I think it would be easier for someone claiming some stake in a mainstream religion to get that many on her side that quickly....

[BeDaN]

**Possible Spoilers**












After reading DT and The Stand I'm kinda torn about Flagg's abilities. In The Stand it seems to me he is a legit sorcerer of some kind. . .the visions. . .the illusions. . .the ball of fire and so forth. But in the VII book of DT it's revealed by Mordred that he's was pretty much a cheap imitation of a sorcerer and that all his abilities were pretty much scams, at least that's the way I perceived it. Did I just read this wrong or is it he has different abilities on different lvl's of the tower? Also where do his appearances fit in in a chronological sense?

[Brainslinger]

Chronologically, we don't really know when the Stand events took place in relation to the DT books, but I thought it might have happened during the time of The Waste Lands and Wizard and Glass. I'm only really basing this on the fact that he has the RF form and persona in these books, (that is the present day sections of Wizard.) I can't prove it, just a theory.

That being said I'm not convinced DTs Flagg is exactly the same as the Stand version mainly due to the disparity in time in which these event occur, (70s for original Stand novel, 90s for unabridged verson, 80s for WAG superflu world) and also the history of Flagg himself. (That's not to say DTs Flagg didn't end up in a superflu world and take part in similar, possibly identical events, I just think it might be a world next door to Stand world, where events occurred in a different decade. If that makes sense.)

As for his abilities on different levels of the Tower, I think it's quite possible he is more powerful in other worlds that do not have a keystone status, simply because it's not as real, and maybe with fantasy comes more power, much like if you are aware you're dreaming you can control the world around you (although not to that degree of power). That being said it could be argued, he'd be more powerful in his home world too... so it could work the other way.

Either way, during his confrontation with Mordred, it's important to note, Mordred a) took him by surprise and b) took control of his body. Even if he could blast fireballs, shift into other worlds, kill Mordred with his mind, he was incapable of doing so at that point.

I really disliked that it happened that way, or at least that it happened that way so soon. But there it is. Primarily, I don't think it was his lack of power compared to Mordred that allowed him to be taken. It was his arrogance and underestimation of what Mordred was capable of, in this case penetrating Walter's thinking cap. (And if it had the same effect as it did on another character from French Landing, it might have dulled his thinking too.)

[BeDaN]

Very well put!

[Brainslinger]

Thank-ya.

[Matt]

I've read The Stand a bunch of times and each time I do, Flaggs power seems to be less and less. Illusionists can really make you convinced of something that did not happen. A whole bunch of glam. Something like a "fireball" can be done with the right kind of powder, things like that.

IMO, there is no way to relate time in the series to any of the other books so I'm not sure that factors in much. In the end, I believe Flagg is just what he said he was at the end of DTVII

[Empath of the White]

I do think Flagg is a sorcerer, despite his meeting with Mordred, and that he had the power to save himself. The problem, in my opinion, is that he got too full of himself, what with the Crimson King trapped in the Tower and the ka-tet heading toward what he thought would be their doom. As for his existence on other worlds, I think the Flaggs (if they are different Flaggs) are one in the same with the Flagg from Wizard and Glass. I seem to recall that at one point Walter referred to himself as Legion (or maybe it was under his Flagg guise?). Many. So I think that the Flagg who used the alias of Walter O'Dim is the "true" Flagg, while the others are different aspects of his being that are scattered throughout the different levels of the Tower. To support this idea, consider the vision Walter gave Roland at the end of The Gunslinger. Under the assumption Walter could have shown him this any time, it would point to him being pretty powerful just based on the sheer scope of the vision.

Based on what I have read involving Flagg, it seems much of his power comes from his quick thinking and that sharp tongue.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I always thought that his power could be derived by how many people believed in him. In The Stand, tons of people believed in him because of the dreams, but as they saw how he ran things, he began to lose his powers and so therefore his control over the people.

I don't know if anyone sees it this way, but I always did.

[Jean]

I always thought that his power could be derived by how many people believed in him. In The Stand, tons of people believed in him because of the dreams, but as they saw how he ran things, he began to lose his powers and so therefore his control over the people.

I don't know if anyone sees it this way, but I always did.
I am inclined to think the same. Moreover, he has control only over those souls that are ready to succumb to him even before they met. Whenever he meets anyone who can - to any extent - stand and be true, his glammer doesn't work.

[Darkthoughts]

Moreover, he has control only over those souls that are ready to succumb to him even before they met. Whenever he meets anyone who can - to any extent - stand and be true, his glammer doesn't work.

Yes, a very good point! Infact, when choosing those who will be in his direct service, he specifically asks for their allegiance, almost as if it's part of some magical pact to ensure his power over others through their core belief.

[Matt]

I could go with that, its a great theory.

[Tony_A]

Moreover, he has control only over those souls that are ready to succumb to him even before they met. Whenever he meets anyone who can - to any extent - stand and be true, his glammer doesn't work.

Yes, a very good point! Infact, when choosing those who will be in his direct service, he specifically asks for their allegiance, almost as if it's part of some magical pact to ensure his power over others through their core belief.

Which is why he had no control over people like Dayna and Glen.

I'm currently re-reading The Stand and am about a hundred pages near the end. It's still a great read, but knowing what becomes of Flagg at the end of DT makes him look smaller than when I first read it.

[razz]

I've noticed that in quite a few novels our old friend (or fiend) Randall flagg seems to cause more damage with the troubled, but not necessarily Bad type of people, than with some person who is evil to the core. In eyes of the dragon, he misleads Prince Thomas; in the Stand he misleads Harold. He tries to use Mordred while he was young (and assumed that meant innocent, despite the fact that he knows otherwise), which gets him killed. Since I am a long way from reading all King novels, or even the ones with Flagg in the (how many more are there, exactly? There is more than just DT, Stand, and EotD, isn't there?) I was wondering if anyone else saw such similarities, or had any comments on this.

[Jean]

Dear friends,

since quite a lot of novels are going to be quoted/discussed here, I have to remove the Spoiler Warning from the title, and warn you about being careful with your spoilers in the text. When you use spoiler tags, please warn which novel you are going to spoil (i.e.: "The Stand spoiler below")

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/thaku.gif

[Jackie]

Hmm I notice that too I recently finshed The Eyes of the Dragon, which was a really great book and so far my second favorite of his [excluding The Dark Tower series] I recomend it to anyone who has yet to read it. :)

[Sam]

Razz,
I think you will find that it is often easier to prey upon the weak than it is to take from one with the same intentions as you. As to your observation about Flagg, I think you're correct. He does tend to prey upon thise who are weak rather than those who are evil. The weak are easier to guide and less likely to throw off the yoke.
DT7 Spoiler:
They are also less likely to eat you alive. I also noticed this trait was present in Leland Gaunt of Needful Things. He preyed upon people's desires and their obsessions, which made them similarly weak. Check out Linoge in Storm of the Century who worked through the fears of a parent for their child. Your observation does seem to be a running theme within King's worlds, much as it is here in this one.