Alain *serious spoilers*

[Letti]

Big spoilers all around



We can talk about him freely here but what I am really interested in is his death.
We know that he was killed by Roland and Cuthbert accidently.
How could that happen?
I keep thinkinh about it. Roland and Cuthbert were excellent gunslingers (however still young) how could they make such a mistake?
I have no answer, that's why I would like to see yours.

[Woofer]

I had always thought it an illusion or glam of the Red that caused them to mistake him for someone/something else at that critical moment.

[Storyslinger]

I'm going with Woofer's post, plus that it happen in the dark of night from what I remember.

[Jean]

so, you can beat gunslingers with glam and darkness? Didn't I always say they were no good...

[Storyslinger]

so, you can beat gunslingers with glam and darkness?

That, and a large box of ammo. :lol:

I totally agree, it does seem to be a very rare and strange death and mistake. Maybe it was intentional? :orely:

[Brice]

Even gunslingers are human.

[jayson]

Even gunslingers are human.

and that's how i see it. i don't remember it being anything other than a pair of tired and worn out gunslingers [Roland and 'Bert] making a tragic mistake that resulted in Alain's demise. if there was glam involved i don't remember it [which doesn't mean it wasn't]:shoot:

[Brice]

It may have been, but I don't believe the books mention it. I could be wrong. I think it was simple stupid human error.

[Woofer]

{sneak in}


I'm going with Woofer's post, plus that it happen in the dark of night from what I remember.

Yes, as I recall it was night.


so, you can beat gunslingers with glam and darkness? Didn't I always say they were no good...

No, I'd say all the conditions have to be right, including battle fatigue and who knows what else. We know precious little of Jericho Hill. That's the problem. We're all speculating.


Even gunslingers are human.

Exactly, and they can fail. Otherwise, we'd all be reading one short novel about a slew of gunslingers riding victorious to the Tower. In record time and uphill. In the snow. In the dead of winter. At night. And completely unscathed. Okay, okay, I'll stop.:panic:



Even gunslingers are human.

and that's how i see it. i don't remember it being anything other than a pair of tired and worn out gunslingers [Roland and 'Bert] making a tragic mistake that resulted in Alain's demise. if there was glam involved i don't remember it [which doesn't mean it wasn't]:shoot:

Okay, both Bert and Roland making that tragic an error at the exact same moment just doesn't fly for me - tired or not. Weren't they waiting for word from Alain? No, even tired I don't think they both would have the same mistake at the same moment; thus, I believe a little something else was involved.


It may have been, but I don't believe the books mention it. I could be wrong. I think it was simple stupid human error.

No, they don't mention anything like that. It's just a gut feeling I have based on my interpretation of the world and characters.

{sneak out}

[Letti]

I see that they are humans, of course they are. That's why they are so big in my eyes because it doesn't matter how great they are they are still humans.
BUT
yeah did know that Alain was away
they were a ka-tet they should have felt that he had been coming
and as Woofer has just mentioned how could both of them make such a big mistake at the same time?

[Storyslinger]

I see that they are humans, of course they are. That's why they are so big in my eyes because it doesn't matter how great they are they are still humans.
BUT
yeah did know that Alain was away
they were a ka-tet they should have felt that he had been coming
and as Woofer has just mentioned how could both of them make such a big mistake at the same time?

And you'd think that Alain would sense something was amiss with the 'touch'.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I think his death was meant to illustrate that although the young gunslingers were talented, they were not seasoned or experienced and still susceptible to frayed nerves which can lead to mistakes.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Maybe it wasn't a glammer. Maybe it was ka's will...

[Matt]

I think his death was meant to illustrate that although the young gunslingers were talented, they were not seasoned or experienced and still susceptible to frayed nerves which can lead to mistakes.

I agree. You get untrained, untested, young solders in a brutal war, you are going to end up with serious mistakes.

Funny how it mirrors the times doesn't it?

Edit--and should this be titled "Alain's Fate"?

[MonteGss]

Yes, Matt, I think you are correct, it should be. :)

[ZoNeSeeK]

Plus Wizard & Glass was the retelling of a tragedy. Usually tonnes of nice guys die in these things.

[ManOfWesternesse]

Hard as it may be to swallow, and I do find it hard, I have to agree with the 'inexperienced' argument. Young, tired, night-time, frayed nerves, but the more you think on it it gets even harder to accept. Did Sai King mayhap give too little thought to that one short sentence?

Same, to some extent, has to apply to Roland's killing of his mother? Yes there was glammer there for sure - yet he realised his error within a split second but could not call back the bullet. This one I can accept easier though - probably because someone deliberately caused it, which I don't believe to be the case with Alain.

[Letti]

Hard as it may be to swallow, and I do find it hard, I have to agree with the 'inexperienced' argument. Young, tired, night-time, frayed nerves, but the more you think on it it gets even harder to accept.

This is the only answer but for me it's almost unacceptable because it's okay (it's not okay but beliavable) that one gusnlinger can make such a mistake but both of them? At the same time?
Maybe Cuthber trusted Roland so much... that he didn't pay enough attention he just followed him. I don't know.

[ManOfWesternesse]

...Maybe Cuthbert trusted Roland so much... that he didn't pay enough attention he just followed him....
Yes, I hadn't thought about it in that way, but you might make it a little more plausible with that thought.
Certainly it would not be surprising that, if Roland drwas and fires in the night 'Bert would feel not just safe to do so, but obliged to!

[MonteGss]

I remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed. :(

[Jean]

I remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed. :(
same

[Letti]

Why did you have such an impression?

[obscurejude]

I remember when this was first hinted at in the books, I was always under the impression that Roland killed one of his friends because of some act of betrayal. Then, when it was explained further, it being an accident by Roland and Cuthbert, I was a little disappointed. :(

Exactly the same for me, especially after reading Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came. I was expecting something much better.

[MonteGss]

Why did you have such an impression?

Letti, there is a passage that I am referring to...it may be in The Gunslinger or Drawing..but it's just mentioned in passing that "he shot/killed his own friend." The Roland that we knew from the first two books, I feel, was very capable of shooting his own friend if that friend was a traitor. I just thought it was headed in that direction. :)

[Letti]

Oh, I see. Thank you for the information.
Anyway, yeah I can imagine Roland doing it.

[obscurejude]

Along with what Monte said, Roland (in the poem) rejects the macabre landscape leading to the tower bc of its grotesqueness. This rejection of the outer, leads Roland to introspection and he remembers a betrayal by one of his fellow knights. It doesn't go into detail, but the experience is so jarring that it forces Roland to open his eyes and continue his quest- he can't bare the thought of his memories concerning the event. I definitely think this was in King's mind, but when it is finally recalled it was extremely anticlimactic for me.

[MonteGss]

Wow, thanks for that info jude. I've only really read Browning's poem once or twice and I must admit, it is a bit difficult for me to follow. I don't remember anything like that in the poem. I will have to look again! Thanks! :thumbsup:

[obscurejude]

No problem Monte. :)

[Letti]

I've only really read Browning's poem once or twice and I must admit, it is a bit difficult for me to follow.

Once soneone or we should analyse that poem because I think it's important but it's hard for me to follow it.

[Darkthoughts]

Renamed the thread to open it up for general discussion of Alain :thumbsup:

[flaggwalkstheline]

In the comics roland might still be possessed by the grapefruit during jericho hill, although I'm not sure if thats the case since it hasnt come to that point in the story yet...