Anti-Emo Brutality In Mexico: It May Get Worse

[Ruthful]

http://idolator.com/372899/anti+emo-brutality-in-mexico-it-may-get-worse


With more rioting and violence against "emos" expected at the upcoming City Fair in Tijuana, Mexico, the Mexican government is assisting in an ad campaign designed to curb the attacks, which began earlier this month. While it's being argued that the resentment toward this particular strain of youth culture is due to its corporate promotion and increasing media omnipresence, it's clear that the same homophobia that drove backlashes against disco and new wave is playing a large part. Why else would the abuse be aimed at the kids who enjoy the music, rather than the companies that hawk it? A brief timeline after the cut.

From Daniel Hernandez's blog, Intersections, which has extensively covered the incidents:

The spark came first in Queretaro on March 7. An estimated 800 young people poured into the city's Centro Historico hunting for emos to beat the crap out of. They found some. The next weekend it spread to Mexico City, where emos faced off against punks and rockabillies at the Glorieta de Insurgents, the epicenter of emo social space in the capital. There's also been reports of anti-emo violence in Durango, Colima, and elsewhere...
From another post by Hernandez:

In Queretaro on March 15, a week after the first anti-emo incident nationally, emos and others staged a silent march for peace and tolerance through Queretaro's centro. [On March 19th], emos and their supporters in Mexico City demonstrated in front of the headquarters of the municipal justice department. The action was organized by a Mexico City gay-rights organization, highlighting the contention of some that the anti-emo movement is homophobic, among other undercurrents. After the rally the emos marched to the metro under police protection and returned to their unofficial base, the Glorieta de Insurgentes, chanting "Emos! Emos! Emos!" On Tuesday, emos here met with representatives of the D.F. municipal government.

It's hard to believe that people may actually need to see the slogan "For the freedom of being young, live and let live" in 2008, but it looks like some can't help but blame the kid with the funny haircut for a perceived loss of national identity.

[ZoNeSeeK]

What exactly are people rioting about? Did the emos steal their limes?

[fernandito]

What exactly are people rioting about? Did the emos steal their limes?

No shit that's what they're pissed about! The fuck else are we supposed to put on our beer?*


*and everything else

[Mattrick]

I hate emo kids. At least now they have a reason to whine and complain.

[Unfound One]

My little sister is emo. I'll tell her about this and she'll laugh.
It's really quite sad.

[educatedlady]

I actually wrote about this in my "music blog". I think it is such a strange situation. It seems that people are being targeted more for their fashion than for the music they listen to which, if true, should not be labeled as anti-emo but rather anti-scene. Emo is the (mislabeled) type of music they choose to listen to and scene is the fashion/attitude associated. Many of the articles I've read mention that the "emo" kids are targeted because of the music they listen to but what I've read from the Anti-emo side has been about the fact that they "wear eye liner, dye their hair black and wear it across their eyes, and wear girl pants"...and what they've said that was music related was not really specific enough to say anything about. I think that there is a huge disconnect and that people are fighting about nothing really.

/end rant

[Ruki]

damn. jokes about beating up emo kids are less funny now. bastards :angry:

[Brice]

Ok, so now we have two groups that are traditionally social outcasts (punks and rockabillies) beating and generally fuckin' with another group of social outcasts. WTF? :beat:

[Wuducynn]

I'm confused, is there a movement against the much loved Sesame Street character that I'm not aware of?

[Letti]

Can anybody give me a little description about this Emo thing? I have heard about it but I don't get the point.

[Brice]

There really isn't one.

[Jean]

Can anybody give me a little description about this Emo thing? I have heard about it but I don't get the point.
yes please, I would like to know it too

also, if possible, dear friends - in your own words, not as a link to an article. An article can always be found, googled, whatever, but since it's you we're with here, I personally would love to hear what your view on that is

[Letti]

Can anybody give me a little description about this Emo thing? I have heard about it but I don't get the point.
yes please, I would like to know it too

also, if possible, dear friends - in your own words, not as a link to an article. An article can always be found, googled, whatever, but since it's you we're with here, I personally would love to hear what your view on that is

My dearest non-native speaker brother! *hug*

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_wub.gif
I first put "we" instead of "I" in the second paragraph of the previous post, then got afraid I was taking too much upon myself and changed it...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Brice]

I'm sure there are others who could explain it far better than me, but musically it's sort of a spinoff of the punk and goth movements from what I know of it. Style/dress wise it's also similar to the goths. Think kids who wear nothing but black and mourn everything including the fact that they have nothing to mourn. :lol:

[Wuducynn]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2244/1650776393_8c0274a71c.jpg

[fernandito]

Think kids who wear nothing but black and mourn everything including the fact that they have nothing to mourn. :lol:

You pretty muched summed it up.

[Jean]

I'm sure there are others who could explain it far better than me, but musically it's sort of a spinoff of the punk and goth movements from what I know of it. Style/dress wise it's also similar to the goths. Think kids who wear nothing but black and mourn everything including the fact that they have nothing to mourn. :lol:
now we're getting somewhere

I know a lot of such people, only they don't dress in anything uniform, are no kids any longer and have nothing to do with music...

[Letti]

It might be an incredibly stupid question... but is it true that they cut themselves just to feel they are alive?

[Wuducynn]

It might be an incredibly stupid question... but is it true that they cut themselves just to feel they are alive?

I don't know about all of them, but I do.

[Brice]

It might be an incredibly stupid question... but is it true that they cut themselves just to feel they are alive?


alot of people do that, whether they would be considered emo or not.

[Wuducynn]

I just need the guy-liner and dye my hair black and I'll be all set. *cut* mmmmmmm time to go write some bad poetry involving death.

[Brice]

I'm sure there are others who could explain it far better than me, but musically it's sort of a spinoff of the punk and goth movements from what I know of it. Style/dress wise it's also similar to the goths. Think kids who wear nothing but black and mourn everything including the fact that they have nothing to mourn. :lol:
now we're getting somewhere

I know a lot of such people, only they don't dress in anything uniform, are no kids any longer and have nothing to do with music...




Now imagine if they formed their own subculture, bonded by music and fashion style and you'd understand I think.

[alinda]

Crazy stuff this. I can't understand why
people feel the need to hate anyone,
even if they're morose, and moody.
Especially young people who do not
really know who they are yet. Sad.

[Wuducynn]

Brice, fuck you.

[Jean]

Now imagine if they formed their own subculture, bonded by music and fashion style and you'd understand I think.
perfectly. Thank you http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Odetta]

I don't really understand why some people feel the need to attack these kids. I mean, yes, it is simply a fad and these kids are really just looking for an identity... but they'll figure it out. This is typical teenage behavior... trying to find one's 'self'. You don't see many 30 year old emos.

Are the people that persecute others really that insecure that they just can't leave them to themsleves? Are they so bored that they have nothing better to do?

*jumps off soap-box*

[Wuducynn]

Are the people that persecute others really that insecure that they just can't leave them to themsleves? Are they so bored that they have nothing better to do?


Yes.

[Brice]

Brice, fuck you.

Ain't you gotta' go fix your makeup boy?

[fernandito]

:rofl:

[Wuducynn]

Ain't you gotta' go fix your makeup slave?

Fixed.

And, the answer is, of course!

[Wuducynn]

Feve, go get my guy-liner quick or no meals for the week for you.

[Brice]

:lol: Ok, now we should stop in here. This is sorta' supposed to be serious discussion about people being hurt.

[Wuducynn]

:lol: Ok, now we should stop in here. This is sorta' supposed to be serious discussion about people being hurt.

Hey, I was being serious, see below?




Are the people that persecute others really that insecure that they just can't leave them to themsleves? Are they so bored that they have nothing better to do?


Yes.

[Brice]

Ok, you have a point. I just didn't want US to wander to far offtopic.

[mia/susannah]

I don't really know that much about this emo fad. But I think it is just a faze that most teenagers go through until they figure out just who they are and what they want to do with their life. I will have to ask my girls about it.

[OchrisO]

Emo originally sprung out of a post-hardcore moverment with bands like Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate and Jimmy Eat World . Goth never had anything to do with it. It was mostly post hardcore type stuff that had a more emotional focus in lyrical content. After several waves, things started to focus more on fashion and people who were real emo bands distanced themselves from the label and movement. Anyone who calls themselves emo today doesn't get emo.

[Brice]

Emo originally sprung out of a post-hardcore moverment with bands like Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate and Jimmy Eat World . Goth never had anything to do with it. It was mostly post hardcore type stuff that had a more emotional focus in lyrical content. After several waves, things started to focus more on fashion and people who were real emo bands distanced themselves from the label and movement. Anyone who calls themselves emo today doesn't get emo.


The only reason I brought goths into the discussion is the fashion aspect seems derivative of the goths (to me). I didn't intend any direct correlation.

[Kevin]

I don't really understand why some people feel the need to attack these kids. I mean, yes, it is simply a fad and these kids are really just looking for an identity... but they'll figure it out. This is typical teenage behavior... trying to find one's 'self'. You don't see many 30 year old emos.

Are the people that persecute others really that insecure that they just can't leave them to themsleves? Are they so bored that they have nothing better to do?

*jumps off soap-box*

I would dub it typical teenage behaviour too, albiet a dangerous and annoying one. I'm a teenager, I dont feel the need to rebel in a way that is really not rebelling in any way.

I guess you can consider it a search for identity in the sense that it they grow and realize how childish they've been acting.


Emo originally sprung out of a post-hardcore moverment with bands like Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate and Jimmy Eat World. Goth never had anything to do with it. It was mostly post hardcore type stuff that had a more emotional focus in lyrical content. After several waves, things started to focus more on fashion and people who were real emo bands distanced themselves from the label and movement. Anyone who calls themselves emo today doesn't get emo.

I've heard the other bands mentioned when people talk about the roots of emo, but not JEW. Weird.

[Letti]

Lots of lonely kids... that's what I see.

[Ka-mai]

Emo is like Goth 2.0. My sister thinks emo boys are hot, and I'm like "if their pants are so tight, where is their penis?" and that leads to things that are better left alone. :ninja:

[HanzouNorak]

I hate emo kids. At least now they have a reason to whine and complain.

i hear ya, mopy, depressed and, this is hard to belive, arrogant. theres not many around where i live. (thank god) up in your face, "oh im depressed, Oh im going to make it look like im attempting suicide". call me prejiduce, but atleast i dont got out a beat up near death.

[Ruthful]

Ok, so now we have two groups that are traditionally social outcasts (punks and rockabillies) beating and generally fuckin' with another group of social outcasts. WTF? :beat:

That was the most interesting aspect of this story, to be honest. I realize that Cubans have been cut off from North America for the past half-century-so the fact that they're servicing vintage Edsels isn't much of a shock- but you figure that people right across the border would realize that Jerry Lee Lewis's popularity might have already peaked.

[Letti]

I see more and more emo kids around myself. Emo is just another a new word for lost and lonely kids. For me at least.

[alinda]

Everyone just wants to be loved.
And youth demands that you
show your individuality by
dressing and acting exactly
the same as your friends!

[Letti]

As a kid I never belonged to any kinds of groups because none of them accepted me. (ehhh, I was a super loser) Maybe it wasn't so bad I thought it was.

[alinda]

I am ever so glad that we have found you and eachother!
I wish that these children could only know they were loved
by someone. They seem so troubled to me, but then again
I think it must be the same in all generations.

[Unfound One]

My little sister (she's 16 and in high school) and a lot of her friends are what would be considered emo. They wear a lot of black clothing, dye their hair black and let it fall into their eyes, listen to pretty heavy-metal music, and yes, some of them cut themselves. I hate that it's become a joke, because to my little sister and some of her friends it has become someting really difficult for them to deal with.

For whatever reason, a lot of emo kids are depressed. I dont know if depression causes emo or if emo causes depression, but it's usually a high correllation. It's because of this depression and an "inability to feel things" that a lot of those kids cut themselves. My little sister says just what Letti said, that it enables her to feel something. It also distracts her from whatever is causing her pain. She's been trying to stop for awhile now, but it's really hard for her sometimes.

I don't understand how a person could do this to themselves, but I'm a very happy an extremely un-depressed person. Because of their stereotypical nature, emo kids are made fun of a lot in high school. I think this makes their depression worse, but it's a visious cycle.

It CAN be annoying, and that's why a lot of people make fun of them. Especially when they won't help themselves and just dwell on their depression, but I do think they usually have deeper problems to deal with. People making fun of them doesn't help.

Hell, I've even given my sister and her friends shit about it, so I'm not holier-than-thou-ing - it's still a misunderstood culture.

I do agree with Milissa above though, I think it's a phase, and I think that if these kids can get some help with their other problems they'll "grow out of it."

[/end rant]

[OchrisO]

Here's what emo looked like before it because a fashion trend.

Fugazi

http://www.alexbernard.fr/fichiers/blog/Fugazi-Membres-du-groupe.jpg

Sunny Day real Estate

http://e2ma.net/userdata/2050/images/xlarge/scaled_e1188930189.jpg

Taking Back Sunday

http://www.100xr.com/100_XR/Artists/T/Taking_Back_Sunday/Taking_Back_Sunday_2004.jpg

The Getup Kids

http://www.timmcmahan.com/images/getup1.jpg


Quite a difference, yeah?

Emo started out with a bunch of nerdy punk/hardcore kids who decided to startw riting songs about love and the girls that they never seemed able to get rather than the basic hardcore style and the violence and toughguy attitudes that were starting to become prevalant in the music.

It is the same thing that happens with any underground movement: When it becomes popular, it loses all meaning and becomes all about the look. It makes me sad to see what it has become and most of the bands that are still around from the first couple waves of emo try to distance themselves as much as possible from the term, much like a lot of bands taht are essentially punk bands still do with the term punk because of what it became.

[Unfound One]

Ha! See, where I'm from, that's what we would classify as "Indie" now.

Labels, fuck 'em.

[OchrisO]

Ha! See, where I'm from, that's what we would classify as "Indie" now.

Labels, fuck 'em.

That's because when those bands started wanting to distance themselves from what emo was becoming, they started calling their music Indie. :)







Emo originally sprung out of a post-hardcore moverment with bands like Fugazi, Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate and Jimmy Eat World. Goth never had anything to do with it. It was mostly post hardcore type stuff that had a more emotional focus in lyrical content. After several waves, things started to focus more on fashion and people who were real emo bands distanced themselves from the label and movement. Anyone who calls themselves emo today doesn't get emo.

I've heard the other bands mentioned when people talk about the roots of emo, but not JEW. Weird.

That's probably because most people know Jimmy Eat World for Blled American and everything after that was released in 2001. There was a shift in their sound as they went mainstream with that release, so people don't mention them much. Static Prevails is pretty much second wave emo, though.

[Unfound One]

Ha! See, where I'm from, that's what we would classify as "Indie" now.

Labels, fuck 'em.

That's because when those bands started wanting to distance themselves from what emo was becoming, they started calling their music Indie. :)




Yeah, and now everybody in Omaha is Indie. I mean, we've still got a bunch of emos, but indie is a lot more popular here. We're supposed to be the Indie music capitol of the US, that's what they tell me anyways... whoever "they" are. :lol:

[OchrisO]

Haha, well, you did give the world Conor Oberst and the 800 bands he has been in,

[Unfound One]

That's a fact.
I'm not a fan though...
He's very talented, I just can't stand his voice.

Baaaaa <--- That's my impression of a goat/his voice.

[OchrisO]

hahahaha. I like Desaparecidos, and some Bright Eyes songs aren't bad.

[Wuducynn]

This reminds me of when I was in high school, my friends and I were the metal-heads and then there were the New Wave kids and the jocks. These kids I've seen folk call "emo" remind me of the New Wave kids.

[HanzouNorak]

im not going to let on about my age, but lets just say im around the point where (most) kids would fall into this. i sat back a little and watched one of my friends teter on the edge of emo, listening to music, acting depressed, the usally signs. he was simply missing the makeup. but nonetheless, i sat back and simply observed. i made sure to take notice of anything that remotly had to do with emo, and concluded that it wasn't going to encroach at all on my school. i, once before i realized how emo people acted, started to fall alittle into it. then i fell, wacked my head on a desk and woke up. i listened to the music and though, all i can hear is screaming. i soon saw how emos acted, and cut myself off from it permantly. i mean no offense, and then again i do, calling it a "phase" is a bit like ignoring it. before the kid goes into it, there should be an attempt to convice them otherwise, if they still decide on being emo, fine, their choice, but atleast they were told first. this "phase" does evolve into something harmful, cuting themselves does have the motive of feeling if they're alive, but it in many cases becomes kinda of like a drug, lets not forget the results fucking up and severing a vein.

so my conclusion? they wanna be emo? fine, try to convince them otherwise first, they still wanna be emo? fine, let em be.

[RUBE]

Kids beating up others kids is not really anything new. In the small country town I grew up in you really caught Hell if you were different. I witnessed more than a few brutal beatings at the constant beer parties that went on while I was in high school and college.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I actually hate emo music with a passion. A whole group of them hang out at the central park in the city, and I don't have a desire to hurt them or anything but I do have this almost impossible to resist urge to get a firehose and drench the fuck out of them.

The reason why i dislike the music is that its self-indulgent wank and adored by these kids from upwardly mobile families that are usually financially comfortable and the worst fucking thing they have to bemoan is that they got a C in maths and daddy works til 9pm every night and never played catch with them when when they were 7. Its a gormless fad and heaven forbid having to deal with any actual jarring life events. Can't they just listen to Nirvana and smoke bongs like normal teenagers?

I was really surprised to see the movement in Mexico - but I'd be interested to see the demographics of it.

[Mattrick]

The reason why i dislike the music is that its self-indulgent wank and adored by these kids from upwardly mobile families that are usually financially comfortable and the worst fucking thing they have to bemoan is that they got a C in maths and daddy works til 9pm every night and never played catch with them when when they were 7. Its a gormless fad and heaven forbid having to deal with any actual jarring life events. Can't they just listen to Nirvana and smoke bongs like normal teenagers?

Yeah a reason I can't stand emos. I'm sure some of them may have issues (not sure why ANYONE feels the need to dress stupid and dye their hair black because they are depressed) but we all do and some people have much worse issues. Do they want pity? Do they want me to think "aw, poor little emo kid. Look how he starves himself out of depression and self pity." Of course they hang out at the mall with a group of friends and do what I do (without the gayness of hanging out at the mall and the gay clothes) so why are they sad?

It's the ambiguity of the fashion and their mindsets I don't get nor understand. Whatever causes it I just don't understand. I hate emos because it makes it harder with people with actual issues to come out with them. Nowadays when you're my age or younger and you say you're depressed and you'll just get called emo. For me, being called emo is a horrible insult.

[Odetta]

You have to remember that every teenager feels that their life is tragic. That no one suffers more than they do. It's an inherent (sp) teenager trait.
It is only when we get older that we realize how silly we were.

[Unfound One]

Of course they hang out at the mall with a group of friends and do what I do (without the gayness of hanging out at the mall and the gay clothes) so why are they sad?
....
For me, being called emo is a horrible insult.

So too is the word "gay" when used as an insult. Unless you were actually referring to all emo kids as homosexuals, then I cry your pardon.

[Mattrick]

Me realizing how silly I was when I was a teenager doesn't mean I don't have real problems now. I'm 22, been single my whole life, parents separated since I was 4. Grew up with a mentally and physically abusive step father (think he was a bit of pedo too). Almost all my friends have left my life, I've had to deal with attempted suicides, addictions, watching those i love most erode before my eyes. I was kicked out of school because of my intense depression which was coupled with insomnia which doesn't help matters. Now I've had to redo a grade and a half of school (I've got a 150 IQ for christ sake) which is slow going and unchallenging, I'm 2,000 in debt and have creditors calling me and my mom is moving to another country at any time in which I'll be force to support myself, finish high school (with 90's) to get into university, pay off my debts, save money for school and at least 5,000 worth of equipment all while trying to finish my damn book and the weight of issue after issue has made be pretty damn apathetic towards it all. On top of that any day I could develop a melanoma in my left eyeball (the one that isn't half lazy) which would make me blind in that eye and probably spread to my liver, the chances are slim but with my track record I'm surprised I have depth perception today.

I don't complain to anyone about it. Other people have their problems. These kids thinking they are depressed when they are not, some desperate cry for attention. It's never been a cry for attention for me, I've always been very private with my depression and apathy. Even when I was a teenager.

I know people have suffered more than me and my issue are trivial compared to what people have to deal with. I recognize this. I have the common fucking decency to be able to see how others lives are and know not to complain to them or to walk around dressed like them. Their lifestyle shows a complete lack of self respect, societal respect and respect for those who have suffered.

A saying I enjoy is 'Don't complain to a veteran about skinned knees' and it's entirely fitting for this thread.

When I think of how pitiful some of these kids are and how weak they allow themselves to become and be portrayed...I just want to rip my hair out. :pullhair: Are these my peers in the future? Are these the people I want to create art and entertainment for? People that can't stub a toe without belly aching over it? Maybe I'm just unique and special in my generation. Perhaps I feel others pain sometimes so much I can't even recognize my own. There are so many important issues in the world; global warming, terrorism, war, famine, poverty, rape, murder, genocide, hate, prejudice and they think they have it hard. I don't even have it hard, even though it can feel that way.

I just think these emos (and the hip hop kids too) need a reality check. To see there is a world beyond the music videos and the shopping malls and the televisions and iPods and the clothes, a world that is far more real and can offer much more.


These emo kids problems stem further than fashions and music towards our social conditions. Our society breeds them, creates them and destroys them. There is a massive business behind controlling youth and making them buy buy buy. It's not as if rap videos displaying their clothes, cars, houses and bling isn't advertising consumerism.

Sometimes I wish I could go back in time to a time when society was different but I wonder if it ever has been.

[obscurejude]

The human condition has never been any different, Mattrick, but capitalism is relatively new. The merchant class fucked everything up in my opinion. I'm hoping to live off the grid when I'm a little older, on a self supportive farm, writing books and not watching TV.

[John Blaze]

dude, you're so fucken EMO.

:lol:

but seriously, I've been considering buying a windmill generator to power my property.

[Odetta]

MY point was, that teenagers feel hard-done by... as they grow up, they realize that other people have shit to deal with as well. Teenagers rarely see this as it takes a maturity that comes once you've grown up a bit more.
Being Emo is really no different than any other teenage fad, which is why I said that you don't see many 30 year old emos.
Rather than 'hating' the whole emo phase, why don't people just let them do whatever the hell they want? I mean, does it really affect anyone else's life? When they get older, they will realize that it's not all about them.

[Wuducynn]

Rather than 'hating' the whole emo phase, why don't people just let them do whatever the hell they want?.


Perfectly put. That says it all to me. :harrier:

[ZoNeSeeK]

O: I don't hate them, I just want to spray them with jets of water :)

[Mattrick]

So too is the word "gay" when used as an insult. Unless you were actually referring to all emo kids as homosexuals, then I cry your pardon.

homosexuality is pretty in line with emos. There are a lot of gay emos. But I think people that hang out at malls are gay...I just plain don't see the reason why.


dude, you're so fucken EMO.

I'm not denying that I do suffer from depression and the only reason I bitched the way I did was to prove a point about emos. I hardly ever burden anyone with my problems. And dressing like you're depressed is just as bad as complaining about it, in my opinion.


The human condition has never been any different, Mattrick, but capitalism is relatively new. The merchant class fucked everything up in my opinion.

I think the human condition has reached an all new low. Were a people bitter, angry, depressed, hostile and fearful over the most irrational things. No one invents stupider reasons to be against something else than mankind.


MY point was, that teenagers feel hard-done by... as they grow up, they realize that other people have shit to deal with as well. Teenagers rarely see this as it takes a maturity that comes once you've grown up a bit more.

That's because they lead such comfortable lives with their ipods and their xboxes and satelitte tvs and their txt messaging. I've grown up always realizing how easy all the other kids had it. So when they complain about how bad they have it, yes, I take it personally. All I did all summer every summer was house work during my youth. I actually dreaded summer for that reason. I got no money for spending whole weekends working then my friend gets five bucks for taking out the trash. When I was eight I had to do dishes, vacuum, cook family meals and do my own laundry. I did more work in my childhood than these emo kids do throughout their teens.


Rather than 'hating' the whole emo phase, why don't people just let them do whatever the hell they want? I mean, does it really affect anyone else's life? When they get older, they will realize that it's not all about them.

Yeah, lets just let all these depressed people do whatever they want. It's not as if Columbine, Virginia Tech etc haven't been commited by people suffereing some serious emotional issues. Let's just let teenagers with little care for what happens around embrace these negative emotions and let them be then wonder why they kill themselves or get hooked on drugs or go out and commit crimes. It's not just emo but those who follow rap music. My area is full of thug and gangstah wannabes selling crack and pills and blow and I'm sure they come from neglectful families.

Most parents don't even know what emo is nor the negative and horrible effects it can have.

Isn't teenage hood/high school supposed to be the greatest time of our lifes? Idyllic? They will look back upon these years thinking 'yeah, I cut myself for fun then huffed gas and cried myself to sleep'

This video shows some of the harsh realities of what is wrong with emo kids.
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/15069/

[Kevin]

MY point was, that teenagers feel hard-done by... as they grow up, they realize that other people have shit to deal with as well. Teenagers rarely see this as it takes a maturity that comes once you've grown up a bit more.
Being Emo is really no different than any other teenage fad, which is why I said that you don't see many 30 year old emos.
Rather than 'hating' the whole emo phase, why don't people just let them do whatever the hell they want? I mean, does it really affect anyone else's life? When they get older, they will realize that it's not all about them.

Because its potentially dangerous depending how far they take it. And because if you had a friend that you knew had a brilliant mind sinking into this trend you wouldn't 'let them do whatever the hell they want'. And while many do grow out of it because they're left to there own devices, there is a potential (fairly small) for them to not get past they're teen years.

Yes, teenagers feel hard-done-by for the most part. And yes they need an outlet. But it doesnt have to be an idiotic and potentially dangerous outlet.


I see more and more emo kids around myself. Emo is just another a new word for lost and lonely kids. For me at least.

Letti there is a bit more to it than that. Many of these kids do not have a valid reason for acting the way they do. Its become a trend to act depressed and lonely. There are lots of kids that are genuinely depressed and lost and lonely because of real problems they have faced and are facing. These are not emo IMO.


Ha! See, where I'm from, that's what we would classify as "Indie" now.


I see more and more emo kids around myself. Emo is just another a new word for lost and lonely kids. For me at least.


Ha! See, where I'm from, that's what we would classify as "Indie" now.

Labels, fuck 'em.


:thumbsup:

[Odetta]

I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

[Kevin]

That's probably because most people know Jimmy Eat World for Blled American and everything after that was released in 2001. There was a shift in their sound as they went mainstream with that release, so people don't mention them much. Static Prevails is pretty much second wave emo, though.

Jimmy albums/EP's I own:
Bleed American
Chase This Light
Christmas EP
Clarity
Futures
Jimmy Eat World/Jebediah Split
Firestarter EP
Singles
Sparkle EP
Static Prevails
Stay On My Side Tonight EP

I'm a huge fan, never considered them emo. Meh.


I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

It doesnt. And I dont. :)

[John Blaze]

dude, you're so fucken EMO.

I'm not denying that I do suffer from depression and the only reason I bitched the way I did was to prove a point about emos. I hardly ever burden anyone with my problems. And dressing like you're depressed is just as bad as complaining about it, in my opinion.

I was talking to OJ.....

[HanzouNorak]

I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

it doesn't, the generic stupidity for today makes more of them by persecuting them. they think that since its being held down and hated, becomeing emo would be Another Great Way To Rebel. and frankly, the "always but, isn't there?" excuse is something im tired of hear. its self destructive, stupid, and pointless. have you ever gone up to an emo and asked why he/she is emo? the response is always the same;
"Because im depressed"
"About what?"
The emo stares at their questioner with hateful, scared eyes as they desperatly try to muster a response, there is a 30 second pause as they continue their efforts, when they realize its futile, the emo turns in the direction with the least amount of people in it and walks away.
if the emo comes up with a real response thats not retarded in any sense of the word, they have every right to be emo. here is my estimation of how many emos have actualy good reasons;
*calculates*
9.762% based on the ten people i asked, a rough estimation from 2 of my friends, the 27 people my penpal over in NY asked, and my gaudy dollar store calculator.
so lets take a look at the up beat people who wear black and make-up, mostly known as goths. they're not depressed, dont complain about nothing, are happy a lot, but wear make up and wear all black, usally with a logo of a death-metal band on one of their tee-shirts. these poor souls are subject to the stereotype that many call emo. ive got a few SC friends that complain about how everyone calls them emos. the emos are causeing harm to the goth community aswell. how much you wanna bet a bunch of those hate crimes nailed goths too?

so whats left to say? i really dont know right now, but expect something else from me in the morning.

[OchrisO]

All of the misunderstanding of what emo is(or, was, I suppose, now), especially from the people who call themselves emo annoys me more than words can describe.

[Unfound One]

So too is the word "gay" when used as an insult. Unless you were actually referring to all emo kids as homosexuals, then I cry your pardon.

homosexuality is pretty in line with emos. There are a lot of gay emos. But I think people that hang out at malls are gay...I just plain don't see the reason why.


There may be a lot of gay emos, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. What I am saying, however, is that using the word gay as a synonym for stupid it is hurtful and offensive.

[Letti]

Just a question and no more... have you guys talked to a lot emos that you think they don't have real problems? Why do you think that?
I ask it because I haven't.

[Mattrick]

I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

There is a difference between hating and persecuting. Socially responsible and moral people such as myself can dislike or hate any person I so choose but that doesn't mean I go around starting fights with emos or talking trash to them. When I say 'I hate emos' I hate the image these kids portray and since they all chose to throw being unique out the window when they chose to dress like all the other emos, I group them together as a massive conglomerate of whiny teenagers.

Why would I fight an emo? They warmly embrace pain like a forlorn lover on a cold January night. Now how is that for poetry emo kids?


There may be a lot of gay emos, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. What I am saying, however, is that using the word gay as a synonym for stupid it is hurtful and offensive.

In a day and age when black people publish music in which they drop the N bomb and call each other the N bomb and gay people are free to do whatever they want I don't think using gay for a synonym as stupid is hurtful or offensive. All gays want is to be treated the same as straight people. By carefully selecting my word choice in order to accomodate gay people I'm making them feel segregated in our society in the process.

Are you gay? If not, not sure why you feel it's hurtful or offensive. You should let the gay community voice whether or not my demeanor is abrassive, they're not as afraid of speaking their mind as a you may think. :D Would it be more PC if I said Camp? Girly? Fey? Simmonsesque?

btw, I didn't mean gay as in stupid but in the fact that I'd rather take it up the flashpipe from another man before I hang out at the mall wearing emo clothes and looking at the ground with my hands in my pockets. Thus hanging out at the mall is 'gay'...you won't catch me doing it.

I'm both shocked and appaulled you would think such a thing of me :unsure:

[Mattrick]

Just a question and no more... have you guys talked to a lot emos that you think they don't have real problems? Why do you think that?
I ask it because I haven't.

Anyone who has time to hang out at the mall for hours doesn't have real problems...and my mall is full of emos.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Also we have to keep in mind that we're focusing on one sub element of the culture here. Emo refers to following emo music, and a certain appearance/style is usually attached to it. The depressive / self-harm sub-element isn't the majority and now that I think about it, I've spoken to a few people who follow the emo scene but are fairly well adjusted, fun teenagers or young adults.

I think the self-indulgent attention seeking whiners are ruining it for the rest of them. Same thing happened to the Goth movement aswell, remember. The meaning or purpose of the movement is undermined by needy, pain in the ass attention seekers. I just read how most people who follow emo music loathe the self-harm and depressive sub-element as its giving them a bad name.

[OchrisO]

I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

There is a difference between hating and persecuting. Socially responsible and moral people such as myself can dislike or hate any person I so choose but that doesn't mean I go around starting fights with emos or talking trash to them. When I say 'I hate emos' I hate the image these kids portray and since they all chose to throw being unique out the window when they chose to dress like all the other emos, I group them together as a massive conglomerate of whiny teenagers.

Why would I fight an emo? They warmly embrace pain like a forlorn lover on a cold January night. Now how is that for poetry emo kids?


There may be a lot of gay emos, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. What I am saying, however, is that using the word gay as a synonym for stupid it is hurtful and offensive.

In a day and age when black people publish music in which they drop the N bomb and call each other the N bomb and gay people are free to do whatever they want I don't think using gay for a synonym as stupid is hurtful or offensive. All gays want is to be treated the same as straight people. By carefully selecting my word choice in order to accomodate gay people I'm making them feel segregated in our society in the process.

Are you gay? If not, not sure why you feel it's hurtful or offensive. You should let the gay community voice whether or not my demeanor is abrassive, they're not as afraid of speaking their mind as a you may think. :D Would it be more PC if I said Camp? Girly? Fey? Simmonsesque?

btw, I didn't mean gay as in stupid but in the fact that I'd rather take it up the flashpipe from another man before I hang out at the mall wearing emo clothes and looking at the ground with my hands in my pockets. Thus hanging out at the mall is 'gay'...you won't catch me doing it.

I'm both shocked and appaulled you would think such a thing of me :unsure:

There's a difference in black people using the N-word in songs and you using gay the way you do. Black people generally use the word to take the negative connotation away from it and make it their own. It started as a word used in a negative context to demean a people and is now being used by that people in a way to take power away from it. Gay started out as a word with no negative connotation, evidenced by the fact that it was originally a word for happy, adopted by the gay community as a way of referencing themselves and their comfort with tehy sexuality. Our culture has a great deal of negativity towards gay people, especially gay men. This resulted in people starting to say things like "Dude, you are so gay." in reference to any guy being efeminate at all, because gay people have been looked at in a negative light so so long by a society that was built on Calvanistic values. This is because efiminate qualities in a man have always been looked down on by society at large. What people like you, who use gay as an insult as in saying "That's gay" in regards to anything that they don't like is to take a word that started with no negative connotation and turn it into a phrase with negative connotation and somehow always defend taht action, even though it became a negative connotation because of the negative light in which society views homosexuals. I think that there is a huge difference.

[Letti]

Just a question and no more... have you guys talked to a lot emos that you think they don't have real problems? Why do you think that?
I ask it because I haven't.

Anyone who has time to hang out at the mall for hours doesn't have real problems...and my mall is full of emos.

I don't think it's that simple. I mean it's possible some (or many) of them hang out at the mall all day long because the hell is waiting for them at home.

[Unfound One]

There may be a lot of gay emos, I'm not disagreeing with you on that point. What I am saying, however, is that using the word gay as a synonym for stupid it is hurtful and offensive.

In a day and age when black people publish music in which they drop the N bomb and call each other the N bomb and gay people are free to do whatever they want I don't think using gay for a synonym as stupid is hurtful or offensive. All gays want is to be treated the same as straight people. By carefully selecting my word choice in order to accomodate gay people I'm making them feel segregated in our society in the process.

Gay and bisexual people are not free to do whatever they want. Like any other minority group, we face harrasment and prejudice, sometimes on a daily basis. We do want to be treated the same as any other group, and that includes demanding respect. We don't feel respected when someone uses a word to describe us in a negative manner. Also, how is saying that something is gay in any way accomodating homosexuals?


Are you gay? If not, not sure why you feel it's hurtful or offensive. You should let the gay community voice whether or not my demeanor is abrassive, they're not as afraid of speaking their mind as a you may think. :D Would it be more PC if I said Camp? Girly? Fey? Simmonsesque?

I am bisexual and my younger sister is gay, along with the majority of my friends. Being part of the "gay community," I can absolutely tell you that it is incredibly hurtful and offensive. Even if I was straight I would still think that way. Not to mention the use of any word in this manner is ridiculous and elementary. Thank you for indulging me in stereotypes as well. And no, it's not PC to use any term describing a person or group of persons in a negative connotation.


btw, I didn't mean gay as in stupid but in the fact that I'd rather take it up the flashpipe from another man before I hang out at the mall wearing emo clothes and looking at the ground with my hands in my pockets. Thus hanging out at the mall is 'gay'...you won't catch me doing it.

I'm both shocked and appaulled you would think such a thing of me :unsure:

So hanging around the mall is a thing that I won't catch you doing. And in place of you saying that, you said that it was gay. It seems to me as if you're substituting it for the word stupid here, sorry.

[Jon]

The serious part is the self-harm (cutting) this behavior can be addictive and carry on well into adulthood. It can also start in adulthood but that's another issue. Cutting is a release. It is an effective one...but very habitual! Cutting can lead to more hamful things. Such behavior should be treated, not made fun of or overlooked. Cutting oneself has several purposes. The serious people...and usually adults cut where no one can see such as the feet or groin area. This keeps attention away yet allows them to feel something. Cutting can also release endorphins (sp?) and last...cutting in areas the public CAN see provides attention.

Its the cutter that hides the cuts that concern me the most, though all should be of some degree of concern.

I am no teen but I can tell you firsthand, cutting in places no one can see is a very powerful and habitual behavior. But it is a sign of an ill mind...especially as an adult.

[Odetta]

Yes... cutting is not just restricted to the emo, either... it's much bigger than that.

[Kevin]

I suppose it can be potentially dangerous... but (there's always a 'but, isn't there?)
how does hating them and persecuting them help them?

it doesn't, the generic stupidity for today makes more of them by persecuting them. they think that since its being held down and hated, becomeing emo would be Another Great Way To Rebel. and frankly, the "always but, isn't there?" excuse is something im tired of hear. its self destructive, stupid, and pointless. have you ever gone up to an emo and asked why he/she is emo? the response is always the same;
"Because im depressed"
"About what?"
The emo stares at their questioner with hateful, scared eyes as they desperatly try to muster a response, there is a 30 second pause as they continue their efforts, when they realize its futile, the emo turns in the direction with the least amount of people in it and walks away.
if the emo comes up with a real response thats not retarded in any sense of the word, they have every right to be emo. here is my estimation of how many emos have actualy good reasons;
*calculates*
9.762% based on the ten people i asked, a rough estimation from 2 of my friends, the 27 people my penpal over in NY asked, and my gaudy dollar store calculator.
so lets take a look at the up beat people who wear black and make-up, mostly known as goths. they're not depressed, dont complain about nothing, are happy a lot, but wear make up and wear all black, usally with a logo of a death-metal band on one of their tee-shirts. these poor souls are subject to the stereotype that many call emo. ive got a few SC friends that complain about how everyone calls them emos. the emos are causeing harm to the goth community aswell. how much you wanna bet a bunch of those hate crimes nailed goths too?

so whats left to say? i really dont know right now, but expect something else from me in the morning.

If I had a depression problem and a stranger walked up to me and asked me point blank why I'm depressed after being asked why I dress the way I do (which is pretty damn rude) I'd probably turn and walk away too. Or punch them in the face. Thats a dangerous thing to do.

[obscurejude]

I agree with Kevin, very much. Well put sir.

[jayson]

I agree with Kevin, very much. Well put sir.

seconded

were someone to come up to me and ask "why are you {insert label}?" my response would likely be "why are you an idiot?"

[Unfound One]

Thankee sais for bringing us back on topic.
And Kevin, I agree with Ryan and Jayson - you're right.

[Mattrick]

There's a difference in black people using the N-word in songs and you using gay the way you do. Black people generally use the word to take the negative connotation away from it and make it their own. It started as a word used in a negative context to demean a people and is now being used by that people in a way to take power away from it. Gay started out as a word with no negative connotation, evidenced by the fact that it was originally a word for happy, adopted by the gay community as a way of referencing themselves and their comfort with tehy sexuality. Our culture has a great deal of negativity towards gay people, especially gay men.

You just have to understand I don't believe in political correctness. I believe in respecting others. I say a lot of racial slurs and deraugatory comments when I'm with friends but none of us mean it. They are just words to us, with no greater meaning. I have too much respect for people that I'd never say such things to them or in a deraugatory sense.

My point about the N-Bomb is that black people (at least in entertainment) not only keep that word active and used, they make it seem as if it's okay to say and in today's culture blending society it can create major issues :orely:

I watch South Park, Chappelle's show and their humour is similar. In South Park they call things gay all the time. Gay is just a multifacet word now, like the word fuck. It has so many different meanings and terms of expression. When I say gay I mean it in terms of something I don't want to do. Being with another man is something I don't want to do. If I say a TV show is gay, I don't want to watch it. If clothes are gay I don't want to wear them. You see?


This resulted in people starting to say things like "Dude, you are so gay." in reference to any guy being efeminate at all, because gay people have been looked at in a negative light so so long by a society that was built on Calvanistic values. This is because efiminate qualities in a man have always been looked down on by society at large.

Me and my friends call each other gay all the time. We call each other much worse things but it's all in good fun.


What people like you, who use gay as an insult as in saying "That's gay" in regards to anything that they don't like is to take a word that started with no negative connotation and turn it into a phrase with negative connotation and somehow always defend taht action, even though it became a negative connotation because of the negative light in which society views homosexuals. I think that there is a huge difference.

Homosexuals can do whatever they want. They are people just like me. It's people like you who seem to think we should cater to their needs and feelings that doesn't help anything. Any gay person who gets upset because I call something gay, I think they need more pressing matters to deal with. Compared to the days when they were hung, stoned, blackballed, excommunicated and outright hated I think me calling a certain style gay isn't a big deal. Then again, I'm a big picture person.


Gay and bisexual people are not free to do whatever they want. Like any other minority group, we face harrasment and prejudice, sometimes on a daily basis. We do want to be treated the same as any other group, and that includes demanding respect. We don't feel respected when someone uses a word to describe us in a negative manner. Also, how is saying that something is gay in any way accomodating homosexuals?

Grow up in the 50's and 60's as a gay person and tell me you have it bad, please, go right ahead. Go back to the biblical times and be openly gay, go for it. Go on. Like to see how far you get before you're severely punished for sinning and going against God's ways. For christ sake, gay marriage will be lawful everywhere soon. It's the sweet and the sour. Gays have to deal with small things like the mall being called gay in order to enjoy all the freedoms Gays didn't have thirty years ago.


I am bisexual and my younger sister is gay, along with the majority of my friends. Being part of the "gay community," I can absolutely tell you that it is incredibly hurtful and offensive. Even if I was straight I would still think that way. Not to mention the use of any word in this manner is ridiculous and elementary. Thank you for indulging me in stereotypes as well. And no, it's not PC to use any term describing a person or group of persons in a negative connotation.

If I upset you I'm apologize but I think there are MUCH more pressing matters in the world and the battle for gay rights than this. By starting up this entire debate you're only singling yourself out and trivializing the entire gay rights movement, in my opinion. You make me out to be a bigot. I've heard gay people call things gay, I've heard gay people say much worse thing, in person. Stop speaking for all gays when you're really just speaking for yourself.

Poking fun at things is a naturally human way for people to come to grips with what they don't fully understand. Many people don't understand why gay people are that way and probably never will.

I think you're mistaking poking fun and referencing for outright prejudice and discrimination. What you have to understand is our basic freedoms, we all share them (at least where I come from). Many straight people don't expect gay people to change their lifestyles so we're more comfortable so why do you expect us to change our lifestyles to make you more comfortable? Saying something is gay is my lawful right and I will defend that right to the death.

I guess if you want to live in a society where everyone tip toes around you as if walking on egg shells guiding you by the hand deathly afraid they may do or say something that might offend you, then you're working towards that goal right now. But if you can't accept me for who I am, faults and all...why should I accept you? It's a two way street and someway along the line you've either got to learn to let things roll off your shoulders or you will a VERY miserable person.

As a person who's been made fun of all through school for my; brains, speech impediment, overweightness and a lazy eye I understand what it's like to be singled out, to be made fun of for somethings you can't control. But I learned a long time ago not to let other people's ignorance affect me.

Me calling the mall gay doesn't mean I intended to persecute any gays. In fact, even though you KNEW what my phrasing intended you still got upset about it and started this whole discussion. If I meant to offend the gay community boy god would the gay community know it. But I have no intentions of it and instead of worrying about someone harmless like me you should be rallying against people that actually hate you instead of wasting your breath on those who've accepted, you like me.

[Mattrick]

The problem with kids who cut is that I think most of them don't even understand the reason behind it. Cutting comes from ancient Greece in which is was a belief that if you were sad or angry or bitter these emotions were carried within the blood. Cutting yourself and bleeding was a means of purifying the body.

If they want endoprhins they could just work out for an hour or go running.

[Kevin]

This is going to snowball...and its pretty off-topic. This discussion should be continued in another thread, or personally through PM's in my opinion.

[Kevin]

The problem with kids who cut is that I think most of them don't even understand the reason behind it. Cutting comes from ancient Greece in which is was a belief that if you were sad or angry or bitter these emotions were carried within the blood. Cutting yourself and bleeding was a means of purifying the body.

If they want endoprhins they could just work out for an hour or go running.


Why the HELL is that a problem? Who gives a shit if it came from the Moon, or Uzbekistan or Madagascar, it makes not one iota of difference in this discussion.

[Unfound One]

I understand what you're saying,
but I disagree on a fundamental level with most of it.
I think it best if we just agree to strongly disagree on this issue.
We've gone terribly off topic, and that's my fault for sparking this whole thing.
Cry your pardon, friends.

[Odetta]

well, these kind of topics tend to stray... as long as we get it back on track, it should be fine.

[Bethany]

i should get savannah in here to define all these terms and groups of kids--she's like the jane goodall of teen culture. :P

[obscurejude]

The problem with kids who cut is that I think most of them don't even understand the reason behind it. Cutting comes from ancient Greece in which is was a belief that if you were sad or angry or bitter these emotions were carried within the blood. Cutting yourself and bleeding was a means of purifying the body.

If they want endoprhins they could just work out for an hour or go running.

[John Blaze]

OJ, chill man, it's not worth it to go personal. Mattrick pretty much gets that reaction from everyone.

[obscurejude]

Edited my post bc JB is a wiser man than I.

[Wuducynn]

Damn, I was going to say that was some good advice OJ! :lol:

[obscurejude]

It was good advice, but JB's right.

[John Blaze]

The problem with kids who cut is that I think most of them don't even understand the reason behind it. Cutting comes from ancient Greece in which is was a belief that if you were sad or angry or bitter these emotions were carried within the blood. Cutting yourself and bleeding was a means of purifying the body.

If they want endoprhins they could just work out for an hour or go running.

I wouldn't call myself PC, but I am a person who recognizes the wisdom of live and let live.

Earlier you said that calling people gay as a substitute for stupid is ok because it was in the common vernacular and your friends do it. Wow, that is a very wise statement, and it shows how stupid you are.

First off, I have a language set I use amongst my friends, one for work, and one for being around ladies and my elders. I wouldn't speak the way I do at work or with my friends when I'm at church with my wife, or eating dinner with my grandmother.

If you and your friends choose to call yourselves "gay", fag" and "retard", that's fine, it's not gonna bother me because I won't be there. But if I were at a restaurant with my wife and kids and extended family, and you and your friends were speaking that way where we could hear you, I'd be saying something.

Same rule applies here. You never know everything about the people you are speaking to, specially on the internet, and it would be wise to temper your speech out of respect for others.

[Unfound One]

The problem with kids who cut is that I think most of them don't even understand the reason behind it. Cutting comes from ancient Greece in which is was a belief that if you were sad or angry or bitter these emotions were carried within the blood. Cutting yourself and bleeding was a means of purifying the body.

If they want endoprhins they could just work out for an hour or go running.

I wouldn't call myself PC, but I am a person who recognizes the wisdom of live and let live.

Earlier you said that calling people gay as a substitute for stupid is ok because it was in the common vernacular and your friends do it. Wow, that is a very wise statement, and it shows how stupid you are.

First off, I have a language set I use amongst my friends, one for work, and one for being around ladies and my elders. I wouldn't speak the way I do at work or with my friends when I'm at church with my wife, or eating dinner with my grandmother.

If you and your friends choose to call yourselves "gay", fag" and "retard", that's fine, it's not gonna bother me because I won't be there. But if I were at a restaurant with my wife and kids and extended family, and you and your friends were speaking that way where we could hear you, I'd be saying something.

Same rule applies here. You never know everything about the people you are speaking to, specially on the internet, and it would be wise to temper your speech out of respect for others.

:clap:
John,
You are my hero.
Ditto everything you said.
And thank you.

[Mattrick]

Why the HELL is that a problem? Who gives a shit if it came from the Moon, or Uzbekistan or Madagascar, it makes not one iota of difference in this discussion.

The problem is fundamentally clear. Kids don't know why they do it. They hear about it, hear other people do it to solve their problems and thus they attempt it and do it. It many respects cutting has become accepted in levels of society. The fact that many of these kids don't even understand the origins of cutting means they don't understand the act of it at all. It's done because it's well known, fashionable and its an easy way to get attention/pity/relief.

Where it comes from wasn't point, but it's the principle that matters. Kids don't know why they do it or why anyone else do it. They just do it.


Earlier you said that calling people gay as a substitute for stupid is ok because it was in the common vernacular and your friends do it. Wow, that is a very wise statement, and it shows how stupid you are.

It's not that I'm stupid. But I was jumped on for a phrase that is VERY common in my walk of life. So I described something as gay. It was not my intention to get anyone angry or offend everyone. I don't think I'm stupid for having a broad and acceptable view on societal standards. Like George Carlin said in Jay and Silent Bob 'Gay, Straight...it's all the same now'.

Also, when did I call ANYONE gay? I said 'gay clothes and the gay mall' You're taking my comments out of context now and twisting them around. In today's day and age there has got to be more pressing matters than this. Couldn't Unfound One have simply kept her peace instead of starting a debacle because she felt put off? Unless she speaks up to every person she's ever heard describe something as gay I feel put on the spot, maybe she had a bad day..I don't know. What I do know is this whole situation was pretty inane. I love how I'm supposed to refrain from upset gay people but gay people upset a lot of people simply by existing. They don't upset me, people can be gay if they want, it's a free world but many don't agree with it. Do gays care and respect their opinions, principles and beliefs? It's a simple question, I think and perfectly reasonable one. The world is changing for gay people...maybe we all should lay off such small things and there would be a lot less conflict between differentiating opinions and beliefs.

I guess it's just me but I don't see why some people get annoyed over such small things. Is it for the drama purposes? It's not as if I get upset everyone says something is retarded; even though I've got a cousin with downs or have had family members die of their disabilities, is it worth the effort? You're not going to change the other person and you're just wasting your breath. Wow, if people stopped worrying so much about what would offend who or who offends what I think we would live in a much more carefree world but everyone is so uptight about everything it makes me sad sometimes. :(

[John Blaze]

Earlier you said that calling people gay as a substitute for stupid is ok because it was in the common vernacular and your friends do it. Wow, that is a very wise statement, and it shows how stupid you are.

Couldn't Unfound One have simply kept her peace instead of starting a debacle because she felt put off?

Couldn't you have just apologized and let it go at that? You chose to make it a big deal when you started arguing about it.


Unless she speaks up to every person she's ever heard describe something as gay I feel put on the spot, maybe she had a bad day..I don't know.

I'm surprised that with your ample grasp of women's feelings and your flair for sensitivity you didn't suggest she was on the rag. :lol:

look dude, let's all just let it go and move on, we're already way off topic here.

[Jean]

look dude, let's all just let it go and move on, we're already way off topic here.
hear, hear
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_angry.gif

[Darkthoughts]

Why the HELL is that a problem? Who gives a shit if it came from the Moon, or Uzbekistan or Madagascar, it makes not one iota of difference in this discussion.

The problem is fundamentally clear. Kids don't know why they do it. They hear about it, hear other people do it to solve their problems and thus they attempt it and do it. It many respects cutting has become accepted in levels of society. The fact that many of these kids don't even understand the origins of cutting means they don't understand the act of it at all. It's done because it's well known, fashionable and its an easy way to get attention/pity/relief.

Where it comes from wasn't point, but it's the principle that matters. Kids don't know why they do it or why anyone else do it. They just do it.
Self harming isn't to do with Ancient Greek medical practises, its about being unable to express yourself, needing a release from pent up, unvoiced frustrations that self harmers find they are able to purge through acts of violence upon themselves.

Its not just cutting, it can be burning, inserting sharp objects under the skin - all manner of awful things. It annoys me when people describe self harmers as attention seekers, with the intention of trivializing what they're doing to themselves...I mean of course they're attention seeking! Its the whole point! They're expressing a cry for help, how many "normal" people do you know who purposely hurt themselves? These people have severe self esteem and communication issues, I don't care if they flaunt their cuts or hide them, its not normal behaviour and shouldn't be a point of ridicule.

I feel I can discuss this with a degree of authority as both my Dad (a social worker) and my best friend (a psychiatric nurse) both deal with self harmers and have given me their educated opinions on the subject.
If your knowledge comes from an opinion you've formed from watching emo kids at the mall then I don't think it qualifies as fact, despite the fact you chose to present it as such.

[Brice]

Some things while still on topic are beyond explanation as to why. This is one of those. You'll either get it or you won't and no explanation will suffice. Those who don't can just enjoy the pleasant brief diversion. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[Darkthoughts]

:lol: Very on topic.

[Brice]

:rofl: Indeed!

[Unfound One]

:lol: :rofl: :lol:
That was excellent Brice!

[Odetta]

hear, hear, Brice!

[Jon]

I love how I'm supposed to refrain from upset gay people but gay people upset a lot of people simply by existing.
sometimes. :(


Man THIS is a real problem...do gay folks upset you?

Do you turn away from "Lesbian Porn?"

[John Blaze]

:rofl:

[Odetta]

come on, people! back to emos!

[Daghain]

Amen!

I guess I do not see a lot of emos here - I don't think I travel in the circles that would encompass them.

But, I have been a teenage girl (many years ago, thank GAWD).

Teenagers are, by definition, self-centered and think EVERYFUCKINGTHING is ALL. ABOUT. THEM.

That's nature. Now, the cutting thing is a sign of some emotional problems, IMHO, but hey, if you want to dye your hair black and act all somber, go for it. In 20 years I guarantee you'll laugh at yourself.

It's no big deal, IMHO.

[ZoNeSeeK]

I FIND IT REALLY IRRITATING WHEN TEENAGE FUCKBALLS ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT THINK THAT THEIR CONVERSATION IS SO FUCKING IMPORTANT THAT THE ENTIRE TRAIN CARRIAGE MUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HOW SARAH CAUGHT GENITAL WARTS FROM JAKE ON THE WEEKEND BUT THEN PASHED JOHNNO ON TUESDAY NIGHT AND HASN'T TOLD HIM AND OMG LOL LETS ALL SHOUT ABOUT HOW WE THINK SARAH IS A SLAG AND EVEN THOUGH 200 STRANGERS HAVE JUST BEEN INFORMED ABOUT THIS HOW ON EARTH WOULD IT EVER GET BACK TO HER WE ARE GOOD FRIENDS LOL :) :) :) THNX LOL SHE BORROWED MY AVRIL CD AND HASN'T RETURNED IT THE DUMB WHORE DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES IS ON AT 7

[Daghain]

Amen, brother! :lol:

[Unfound One]

Ah! That actually made me LOL.
Thanks for that. :lol:

[ZoNeSeeK]

:)

[Darkthoughts]

:rofl: Well, now we all know that teens are the same the world over!

[Mattrick]

I love how I'm supposed to refrain from upset gay people but gay people upset a lot of people simply by existing.
sometimes. :(


Man THIS is a real problem...do gay folks upset you?

Do you turn away from "Lesbian Porn?"

wtf, you're taking what I said out of context. Are you saying that raging Christians and southerners and racists wouldn't be ecstatic if all the gays just up and vanished? You obviously misread EVERYTHING I said as I've no problem with gay people at all, they can be gay, it doesn't affect me in the least.

But I agree, it IS a real problem. I'm unsure of why I've been singled out for calling something gay when people like THAT exist.


Self harming isn't to do with Ancient Greek medical practises, its about being unable to express yourself, needing a release from pent up, unvoiced frustrations that self harmers find they are able to purge through acts of violence upon themselves.

I'm sorry, I guess my shrink whom I saw a couple years back who has been formally trained in such matters doesn't know where cutting comes from. I'm unable to express myself, I'm a very introverted person who is emotional unhinged from those around me. As a result of this I've a lot of pent up emotions. I don't need to cut myself for this.


They're expressing a cry for help, how many "normal" people do you know who purposely hurt themselves? These people have severe self esteem and communication issues, I don't care if they flaunt their cuts or hide them, its not normal behaviour and shouldn't be a point of ridicule.

No, these people are weak. They are unable to shoulder their emotions, keep themselves in check and deal with it normally. If I want to ridicule people for being stupid enough to cut and mutilate themselves because they feel it's the only way to cope. You can say the same about those who kill their pain away with drugs and alcohol. Regardless of why they do it they are stupid. Plain and simple.

It doesn't take the pain away, it simply masks it. Since cutting has ZERO beneficial values that aren't a skewed and dejected personality thinking it does, I will call them stupid, ignorant an idiotic.

Shrugging this issue off is simply enabling them to continue. It is inexcusable and a sign of mental weakness, in my opinion.


I feel I can discuss this with a degree of authority as both my Dad (a social worker) and my best friend (a psychiatric nurse) both deal with self harmers and have given me their educated opinions on the subject.
If your knowledge comes from an opinion you've formed from watching emo kids at the mall then I don't think it qualifies as fact, despite the fact you chose to present it as such.

No, my knowledge comes from friends who have cut before, talking with professionals about such things as well as my own keen interest in psychology which has led me to read up a lot on the subject.

[Odetta]

It is true that cutting has Zero beneficial values to a rational person. But in the mind of someone who cuts, they feel they need to do it for various reasons. To simply say that someone who cuts is weak is very shortsighted, Mattrick.
Yes, you can mock these people if you want to... but it makes you kind of seem like the bully in the schoolyard picking on the littler kids. Is that really how you wish to be seen?

[obscurejude]

But, but, Mattrick has a keen interest in psychology.

[Mattrick]

It is true that cutting has Zero beneficial values to a rational person. But in the mind of someone who cuts, they feel they need to do it for various reasons. To simply say that someone who cuts is weak is very shortsighted, Mattrick.

I felt the weakest I'd ever felt when I tried it. I was at a point where I couldn't get drunk without going and shutting myself in a black basement, hiding out next to the furnace while my friends were outside. While these feelings have never left me and in some regards only intensified, I forced myself to learn to live with them or allow them to destroy me. I found drugs were an easy way to numb me out, allow me to feel something...else but when my friends were noticebly fucked up I had to once again stop myself from going down a bad path.

As I said. THINKING something works doesn't mean it does. Cutting is your mind BELIEVING it helps. I understand why they do it, as an irrational person with an overly rational perspective on life I more than understand. That doesn't change the fact it's a stupid thing to do. That's like justifying heroin addicts or drunks because 'it's an irrational mind'. To say these people are 'sick, demented or scum' is very short sighted because they see things irrationally. Addiction is weakness. Cutting is addictive. Thus cutters are weak. Do you understand? They are no different than drug addicts or gambling addicts or drunks or video game addicts, in the respect that it overtakes aspects of thier life, it becomes a crutch or a method of ventilation until it gets to where they need to do and they have to do it in order to deal with stress at all in which it inveritably caused more stress and is a self defeating cycle. The impact may not be as profound to others as these other addictions but it's just as impactful on the individual, if not more so, than other forms of addiction.

Why not just give them razor blades and encourage them? Thinking that it's okay on ANY level simply enables cutters and gives the act its power. May as well support alcoholism and drug abuse as many of them do such things for the same reason a cutter cuts.


Yes, you can mock these people if you want to... but it makes you kind of seem like the bully in the schoolyard picking on the littler kids. Is that really how you wish to be seen?

Me mocking these people, in a closed circle which does not have anyone like that in it, is in no way like a bully in a school yard and that is one hell of an ignorant similie. And I was that kid getting picked on during most of school, it's the entire reason I stopped going to school and have become so shut in emotionally. I cut myself once or twice, more like scratched with a key and it did nothing for me. Not sure what the big hoopla was about.

I don't bully and I surely don't think violence does anything but create more problems. When I see emo kids I may poke fun at them within my friends because we all feel the same way. Considering their whole thing is about not being understood we're only helping them believe it, which is what they want.


But, but, Mattrick has a keen interest in psychology.

You could say it's my passion. I could be a shrink if I wanted, a damn good one, but spending my life listening to other people's problems isn't my idea of time well spent. I fuel my passion into my writing.

[Darkthoughts]

Thank O, thats my point entirely Mattrick - its not sensible, no self harming addiction (including drugs, alcohol etc) is, thats why its cause for concern not ridicule.

And yes, I do think your shrink is wrong. People sacrificed other people to appease the gods in ancient times, but its not the reason murderers of today commit murders - you can draw paralells but its not necessarily a continuation of every ancient practise.

[Darkthoughts]

As I said. THINKING something works doesn't mean it does. Cutting is your mind BELIEVING it helps. I understand why they do it, as an irrational person with an overly rational perspective on life I more than understand. That doesn't change the fact it's a stupid thing to do. That's like justifying heroin addicts or drunks because 'it's an irrational mind'. To say these people are 'sick, demented or scum' is very short sighted because they see things irrationally.
Yes, but the difference is that these people lack the internal cut off points to act on the realisation that its harmful. Its not rationalizing their actions, its understanding their viewpoint to be able to treat them.


I could be a shrink if I wanted, a damn good one,
I'm sorry, but you really would not be...on the whole you come across to me as someone who cannot see any viewpoint that doesn't concur with yours.

[Girlystevedave]

I can't believe there is a thread that almost makes it seem like Emo is a race of people or something. They are "sad/confused" teenagers. So what? Almost everyone is confused as a teenager. I was called a "freak" as a teenager because I didn't look like the norm. I can tell you this: I sure as hell didn't get all weepy and defensive about it.
Rant over.

[Darkthoughts]

I think the trouble is that emo has become a misused label, in much the same way that goth was when I was a teen. Teens with mental health issues are automatically shoved under this label, and its not at all helpful.

[Mattrick]

Yes, but the difference is that these people lack the internal cut off points to act on the realisation that its harmful. Its not rationalizing their actions, its understanding their viewpoint to be able to treat them.

I'm sure many of these kids very well understand cutting is harmful. If they don't then I think something needs to be done about that. We can't just say 'oh leave them be, they don't understand how bad it is'. Sitting back and allowing our youth to think actions such as this are acceptable just isn't acceptable. Sometimes I think I'm taking crazy pills because everyone else seems to miss the simple truth in these matters :panic:



I'm sorry, but you really would not be...on the whole you come across to me as someone who cannot see any viewpoint that doesn't concur with yours.

Isn't that what you're doing by calling my view point wrong?

Understanding why people do things and sheltering them are two different things. Being a shrink is about guiding people to realizing things about themselves which are the foundations for future issues. What I'm able to do is understand how little things can snowball into a mountain of issues, I can understand where these irrational concepts stem from. If I had any choice but to analyze every person I meet and constantly analyze myself and discovering the hidden truths about my issues. You might say I decided to be my own psychiatrist and I'm more and more free from my issues as time passes.

I think I'm very gifted at putting myself in people's shoes. Maybe you can't accept my view point, which is simple: accepting this as a phase is bullshit. There is a difference between being a lost and confused teenager and what emo kids do. They freakin celebrate and embrace all the negative emotions. IS THAT GOOD? NO! And since many of these emo kids haven't reached adulthood yet we've no telling how far along these symptoms will go and how much they will affect in the future.

I refuse to believe this can't be stopped if people just freakin talked to their kids because most of what these kids want is to be understood and talking and open relationships while help that want.

[Darkthoughts]

Yes, but the difference is that these people lack the internal cut off points to act on the realisation that its harmful. Its not rationalizing their actions, its understanding their viewpoint to be able to treat them.

I'm sure many of these kids very well understand cutting is harmful. If they don't then I think something needs to be done about that. We can't just say 'oh leave them be, they don't understand how bad it is'. Sitting back and allowing our youth to think actions such as this are acceptable just isn't acceptable. Sometimes I think I'm taking crazy pills because everyone else seems to miss the simple truth in these matters :panic:
Maybe I'll end up taking crazy pills because you don't read my posts properly before you reply...what you just said is exactly what I just said!


Isn't that what you're doing by calling my view point wrong?
Not really, you're very antagonistic and then contradictory when you get challenged - thats why I'm saying you wouldn't make a good shrink. I've never witnessed you being impartial or diplomatic in any discussion you've had here.

[fernandito]

I FIND IT REALLY IRRITATING WHEN TEENAGE FUCKBALLS ON PUBLIC TRANSPORT THINK THAT THEIR CONVERSATION IS SO FUCKING IMPORTANT THAT THE ENTIRE TRAIN CARRIAGE MUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HOW SARAH CAUGHT GENITAL WARTS FROM JAKE ON THE WEEKEND BUT THEN PASHED JOHNNO ON TUESDAY NIGHT AND HASN'T TOLD HIM AND OMG LOL LETS ALL SHOUT ABOUT HOW WE THINK SARAH IS A SLAG AND EVEN THOUGH 200 STRANGERS HAVE JUST BEEN INFORMED ABOUT THIS HOW ON EARTH WOULD IT EVER GET BACK TO HER WE ARE GOOD FRIENDS LOL :) :) :) THNX LOL SHE BORROWED MY AVRIL CD AND HASN'T RETURNED IT THE DUMB WHORE DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES IS ON AT 7

Slag? :)

[ZoNeSeeK]

slag(2) Audio Help /slæg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[slag] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
British Slang. an abusive woman.

[John Blaze]

I can't believe there is a thread that almost makes it seem like Emo is a race of people or something. They are "sad/confused" teenagers. So what? Almost everyone is confused as a teenager. I was called a "freak" as a teenager because I didn't look like the norm. I can tell you this: I sure as hell didn't get all weepy and defensive about it.
Rant over.

:clap: yay!
thanks love, totally agree.

[Odetta]

I think that, although there is a lot of negativity in the emo attitude, there is a similar trend in every generation. From hippies to punkers to metal heads to goth to emo... I wonder what the new trend will be when my daughter reaches that age.

For the record, I think that negative references to "emo" just fuels the fire for them. What fuels a fad or trend is a dislike or hatred for that trend.

I also believe that just because one says that they don't make fun of people outside of their friends doesn't make it OK. A person's intentions speak loud and clear and if you don't like someone for who they are or what they're trying to be, it will come through.

Now, when we are discussing mental illness in some form, that is a whole other discussion. People who cut themselves, for example, need help. Some type of counselling to deal with whatever issues are causing the need to cut. Ways to deal with the pain rather than transferring it. Would anyone tell a girl who cuts herself because she was molested by her uncle for 10 years that she is stupid and weak for cutting? No... what this girl would need is some therapy to learn how to deal with her past.

THAT being said, I didn't necessarily think that emos did any more cutting than those who aren't emos.

[Kevin]

I think that, although there is a lot of negativity in the emo attitude, there is a similar trend in every generation. From hippies to punkers to metal heads to goth to emo... I wonder what the new trend will be when my daughter reaches that age.
For the record, I think that negative references to "emo" just fuels the fire for them. What fuels a fad or trend is a dislike or hatred for that trend.

I also believe that just because one says that they don't make fun of people outside of their friends doesn't make it OK. A person's intentions speak loud and clear and if you don't like someone for who they are or what they're trying to be, it will come through.

Now, when we are discussing mental illness in some form, that is a whole other discussion. People who cut themselves, for example, need help. Some type of counselling to deal with whatever issues are causing the need to cut. Ways to deal with the pain rather than transferring it. Would anyone tell a girl who cuts herself because she was molested by her uncle for 10 years that she is stupid and weak for cutting? No... what this girl would need is some therapy to learn how to deal with her past.

THAT being said, I didn't necessarily think that emos did any more cutting than those who aren't emos.

Yes, but you see adult punkers/rockers/metal heads/hippies because they stand for something and have opinions/a stance on something. You dont see anyone 'emo' outside the teenage years really, because people grow out of it, realizing how trivial it all is. Other subcultures dont, because its not trivial.

[Daghain]

I'm sorry, I guess my shrink whom I saw a couple years back who has been formally trained in such matters doesn't know where cutting comes from. I'm unable to express myself, I'm a very introverted person who is emotional unhinged from those around me. As a result of this I've a lot of pent up emotions. I don't need to cut myself for this.

No, but you apparently feel the need to antagonize people in the name of acting like you know So. Damn. Much.

So you had a shrink. Good for you. He obviously didn't teach you any freaking compassion.

How about thinking about how others feel for a change? I'll admit I can be a cold-hearted bitch 90% of the time, but dude, at least I can recognize the fact that not everyone has the finely-honed survival instinct I have.

You yourself have admitted to having problems. So do others. Just because you think they are "weak" doesn't mean they are. It just means they have different/less coping skills than you.

You'd do well to figure out that no one is perfect, and remember: whenever you point a finger at someone you're pointing three back at yourself.

Just sayin'.

[Kevin]

Self harming isn't to do with Ancient Greek medical practises, its about being unable to express yourself, needing a release from pent up, unvoiced frustrations that self harmers find they are able to purge through acts of violence upon themselves.

I'm sorry, I guess my shrink whom I saw a couple years back who has been formally trained in such matters doesn't know where cutting comes from.




I'm sure your shrink does know where cutting comes from. But the reasons for cutting in Ancient Greece are bound to be different from the reasons for cutting today, which Lisa described to the letter.




I'm unable to express myself, I'm a very introverted person who is emotional unhinged from those around me. As a result of this I've a lot of pent up emotions. I don't need to cut myself for this.


YOU dont, but OTHERS feel the need to. Simple as that. You're assuming that everybody who is introverted deals with it the same way you do.

[Darkthoughts]

I saw a documentary today about a tribe in Africa, still relatively untouched and uninfluenced by modern society.

The main parallel the film crew drew was that, in this small society where everyone at every age, from adolescence up, had a role and a responsibility to the tribe - there was absolutely no teen angst of any form from the pre-pubescent to the adolescents. No rebelling, acting out, depression, because there was no age at which anyone felt excluded or that they didn't fit in in their daily life.

I thought of this discussion straight away when I was watching it...I also found it quite a sad reflection on our society.

[Daghain]

That's actually pretty interesting, and surprising. So apparently teen angst is a product of environment, then.

[Jean]

absolutely. You don't really go as far as to African tribes, only look back into history until very recent. Before teenagers started being regarded as a separate social group, their only role, responsibility, and purpose was to grow up.

[Mattrick]

I saw a documentary today about a tribe in Africa, still relatively untouched and uninfluenced by modern society.

The main parallel the film crew drew was that, in this small society where everyone at every age, from adolescence up, had a role and a responsibility to the tribe - there was absolutely no teen angst of any form from the pre-pubescent to the adolescents. No rebelling, acting out, depression, because there was no age at which anyone felt excluded or that they didn't fit in in their daily life.

I thought of this discussion straight away when I was watching it...I also found it quite a sad reflection on our society.

Well, that's relative to the hierchy of human needs. Their primary goals in life are to eat, survive, have the bare necessities and maybe some socialization. Our goals during adolescence vastly change. As we grow more used to our more barest essentials being an arms reach away our need to belong and be liked and appreciated will grow stronger.

Society to that African Tribe pretty much ends where their tribe ends. But our society stretches to all corners of our country, information at our fingertips, telecommunications. It's almost impossible to go a day without communicating with someone or being reminded of the world outside our own reach.

Not only are teenagers succeptable to insecurites but too an overwhelming array of facts that all add up to one big fact; they are powerless. There is no big world to explore; it can all be seen. I know more than I care to about the horrors that surround me. I can imagine it difficult to think people care about feeling out of place or alone when 9 year old kids are at war in some countries, famine and genocide is happening, losing of human rights...I imagine to teenagers their problems appear trivial in light of the world they perceive surrounding them and that is full of negativity.

[Jon]

I love how I'm supposed to refrain from upset gay people but gay people upset a lot of people simply by existing.
sometimes. :(


Man THIS is a real problem...do gay folks upset you?

Do you turn away from "Lesbian Porn?"

wtf, you're taking what I said out of context. Are you saying that raging Christians and southerners and racists wouldn't be ecstatic if all the gays just up and vanished? You obviously misread EVERYTHING I said as I've no problem with gay people at all, they can be gay, it doesn't affect me in the least.

But I agree, it IS a real problem. I'm unsure of why I've been singled out for calling something gay when people like THAT exist.







Perhaps I have misunderstood, but I continue to misunderstand. Your words or not...why repeat them?

I reckon you had a point I do not see though I read the entire thread...cry your pardon.

[Brice]

I'll just make one point here regarding the use of the word "gay" as slang for something lame...or "something you wouldn't want to do. It IS roughly equivalent to loosely using the words nigger or nigga as slang. It IS highly offensive and rude...especially in a forum where you don't know all the people you are talking with VERY well....whether on the internet or elsewhere. It is one thing to use such words amongst your friends. Noone can really do anything about that, but to use it in public just shows extreme ignorance and a lack of couth. It shows a lack of concern for those you're talking with which can only lead to them having as much/little regard for you as you have for them. I'm quite sure noone here knows if everyone here is/isn't black/white/latin/asian/gay/bi/ (there are some of all of those here) whatever. While to use the expression in such a manner isn't against any rule I'm aware of it does kinda' make people think you're an ass. Just please try to bear in mind people you don't know at all read this stuff. Please have some consideration for others.

[special k]

im not sure if anyone has posted the tickle me emo video but here it is

YouTube - Tickle Me Emo