Ender's Saga by Orson Scott Card

[fernandito]

Another great sci-fi series. Which books have you read? So far, I have the following titles under my belt:

-Enders Game
-Enders Shadow
-Shadow of The Hegemon

The next two that I plan on picking up are Shadow of The Giant (I love Bean!) and Speaker for the Dead, which I've heard is pretty f'n awesome.

[Telynn]

Great series!!! Yes, I luv Bean.

The other series, the ones following Ender are a little different. A lot more philosophical. (I know, butchered the spelling of that, I'm sure Zone will correct me. :)) I have heard that he has a new one coming out that will actually join the two series. Be interesting how he does it. I have my own theories of course.....

[fernandito]

Which has been your favorite so far, Tel?

[Fishonabike]

I've read Ender's Game/Ender's War, Speaker for the Dead, and Xenocide... and I love them.

As far as the rest of the books, I have some catching up to do.

[fernandito]

Have you read anything Bean-related, f.o.a.b? :)

[John Blaze]

I have every single ender related book, i love them.

fp, sounds to me like you need to read Shadow Puppets before you read Shadow of the Giant.

Enjoy these.

I had heard there was supposed to be a movie coming out, but IMDB says they can't make up their mind on it.

[fernandito]

fp, sounds to me like you need to read Shadow Puppets before you read Shadow of the Giant.


Thank you sir, I will heed your advice. :pirate:

[Telynn]

Which has been your favorite so far, Tel?


It's hard for me to say. Been a while since I read them and hard to divide the whole story into books. I know I liked the Bean saga better. I really did like Ender's Shadow, to see the flip side of the same story from a different perspective.

[Telynn]

I have every single ender related book, i love them.

fp, sounds to me like you need to read Shadow Puppets before you read Shadow of the Giant.

Enjoy these.

I had heard there was supposed to be a movie coming out, but IMDB says they can't make up their mind on it.

John, putting it into spoilers...... how do you think he will connect the two series, if he does end up writing another book that does connect them.

My theory:

Bean's decendants are the really smart race on that one planet that is causing all the trouble in the Ender series. The one going around and screwing with everything.

[John Blaze]

I have every single ender related book, i love them.

fp, sounds to me like you need to read Shadow Puppets before you read Shadow of the Giant.

Enjoy these.

I had heard there was supposed to be a movie coming out, but IMDB says they can't make up their mind on it.

John, putting it into spoilers...... how do you think he will connect the two series, if he does end up writing another book that does connect them.

My theory:

Bean's decendants are the really smart race on that one planet that is causing all the trouble in the Ender series. The one going around and screwing with everything.


You are so wrong! :lol:

j/k

The super smart race wasn't remotely human, they communicated using molecules. The other smart planet, Path, is mostly genetically altered Japanese.
If you remember at the end of Giant, Bean leaves on a spaceship flying at relativistic speeds to preserve him alive long enough to find a cure. It would have to be going pretty fast right? That's where the new book is likely to come in. Jane is going to find Bean, realize who he is, and reunite him with the new and improved Peter. Then they can save the Hundred Worlds together.

That's my take, anyway. :)

[Telynn]

I have every single ender related book, i love them.

fp, sounds to me like you need to read Shadow Puppets before you read Shadow of the Giant.

Enjoy these.

I had heard there was supposed to be a movie coming out, but IMDB says they can't make up their mind on it.

John, putting it into spoilers...... how do you think he will connect the two series, if he does end up writing another book that does connect them.

My theory:

Bean's decendants are the really smart race on that one planet that is causing all the trouble in the Ender series. The one going around and screwing with everything.


You are so wrong! :lol:

j/k

The super smart race wasn't remotely human, they communicated using molecules. The other smart planet, Path, is mostly genetically altered Japanese.
If you remember at the end of Giant, Bean leaves on a spaceship flying at relativistic speeds to preserve him alive long enough to find a cure. It would have to be going pretty fast right? That's where the new book is likely to come in. Jane is going to find Bean, realize who he is, and reunite him with the new and improved Peter. Then they can save the Hundred Worlds together.

That's my take, anyway. :)


Well, as much as I wanted Bean to still be alive in the Ender series, I'm afraid he wouldn't be. So the thought that his kids landed on some planet and started a race of exceptionally smart beings made some sense. Eventually they could have evolved to something that communicated using molecules or whatever. But it would be nice if Bean were still around...... just couldn't get my hopes up.

[John Blaze]

here's a drink for wishful thinking.... :)

[cozener]

I've read Ender's Game and Speaker for the Dead. Can't decide if I want to continue. I liked these two books well enough but I'm I can't escape the feeling that they're lacking something and I'm not quite sure what that something is. But their grasp on my interest is pretty loose.

[John Blaze]

read Ender's Shadow. TRUST ME! it will capture your interest. The Bean books as a whole are much better than the Ender books.

[Telynn]

I luv Bean. :wub:

[John Blaze]

if you love beans you'll fit right in at my house! :D

[fernandito]

with longaniza?


I'm going to pick up Shadow Puppets as soon as I finish The Hobbit and Duma Key. :)

[theBeamisHome]

oohhhh... its in the Mansion... lol

well i just finished Ender's Game (loved it) i'm torn between loving Ender and wanting to tell him to stop letting everyone use him!!
and i've read Ender's Shadow before. Bean kicks major ass!

My bf has the rest of them so I should be working on them all next week.

[fernandito]

well i just finished Ender's Game (loved it) i'm torn between loving Ender and wanting to tell him to stop letting everyone use him!!
and i've read Ender's Shadow before. Bean kicks major ass!


I still remember the first time I read the ending to Enders Game - it warped my mind. And yes, Bean kicks major ass :D

[theBeamisHome]

my younger cousin read it before me and she was like 'i don't get it.' lol.. i thought it had a great ending... he really didn't need to write anymore for me with that.

[fernandito]

I just started Speaker For The Dead a few days ago - it's starting off really well, the only thing I don't like is that the first person narration jumps from character to character within the same chapter/section whicn can be really confusing at times.

[Arthur Heath]

I felt dissapointed in the other books simply because I compared them to Enders Game. Had I not and I think I would have enjoyed them more...

[fernandito]

Other books...you mean Bean's series?

[fernandito]

Alright, so now I have Enders Game, Enders Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, and Speaker for the Dead under my belt.

Which one do I need to tackle next? Shadow Puppets?

[theyspunaweb]

feverish (glad you pointed me in the direction of this thread, I don't notice the top 'envelopes' in most sections and probably miss a lot!) if you haven't read more in the enders series, you could keep reading the rest of the Ender story, xenocide and children of the mind. I've read those and the rest you've mentioned (bean's story) and they are all fantastic. I want to re-read the whole thing sometime soon, but I have only re-read Ender's Game itself probably 3 times. It's got to be my favorite book on it's own (solo).

I've yet to read anything else by Card, although I've really been meaning to.

[Chap]

I've never even heard of this!
Anyone care to summarize what (and where and when) it's about? without spoilers of course. :)
and who's the main audience for this series? Male/Female, kids/youth/adult etc.
thanks in advance.

[fernandito]

From Wikipedia (in regards to the first book in the series, Ender's Game) -

---

Ender's Game (1985) is a well-known science fiction novel by American author Orson Scott Card.[1] The book originated as the novelette "Ender's Game", published in the August 1977 issue of Analog Science Fiction and Fact.[2] Elaborating on characters and plot lines depicted in the novel, Card later wrote additional books to form the Ender's Game series. Card released an updated version of Ender's Game in 1991, changing some political facts to accurately reflect the times.

Set in Earth's future, the novel presents an imperiled humankind who have barely survived two conflicts with the Formics (an insectoid alien race also known as the "Buggers"). In preparation for an anticipated third invasion, an international fleet maintains a school to find and train future fleet commanders. The world's most talented children, including the novel's protagonist Ender Wiggin, are taken at a very young age to a training center known as the Battle School. There, teachers train them in the arts of war through increasingly difficult games including ones undertaken in zero gravity in the Battle Room where Ender's tactical genius is revealed.

[Chap]

Thanks feverish, since noone replied I went to wikipedia myself a few days ago ;)
Looks interesting, my list of books to check out keeps growing.

[theyspunaweb]

It's bizarre because when I read the back of the book (Ender's Game), it doesn't really seem like something that I particullary would be interested in (I am not a fan of war, or space in general) but I picked up this book and the entire story has been my favorite. The charecters, plot, and the way it was written is just so great. You'll really feel for Ender.

[Ka-mai]

Just read Ender's Game for the first time! I really liked it. I got pissed though, Matt does this thing where he says "oh, I predicted the twist like halfway through, it's pretty predictable" and then I don't and I feel like an idiot.... Did anyone else think it was predictable?

[necromanticize]

Ohhh I love these books.
I have read
Ender's Game
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind

My ex let me borrow Ender in Exile but I haven't even started it...I'm still working on two other books!

[fernandito]

Did anyone else think it was predictable?

I didn't think it was /that/ predictable, I myself didn't guess what what the twist was going to be until a few pages prior to the revealing. After I read the twist though I thought of how much sense it made to have approached it the way they did.

I think Matt is just a book snob :P

[Ka-mai]

HE IS. ><

And yeah, it did make sense... but I didn't see it coming. I kind of feel like I should have, but I guess I was just so focused on "what's gonna happen next!" that I wasn't really analyzing the plot on the way. :P Actually, the more I think about it the more I feel I really should have seen it coming. :lol: Oh well.

[fernandito]

Are you planning on continuing with the series?

[Ka-mai]

Yep! Matt found a good deal on Amazon and got the next three I think. Just gotta wait....

[fernandito]

Excellent! Be sure to branch out to Bean's story as well, if you haven't done so already. He is more than worthy of his own series. :D

[theyspunaweb]

I didn't think it was that predictable when I first read it, I was younger....I felt like I should have, and the book was winding down. I knew something was going to happen...I think I might have known that his last "test" was the big one. but I didn't know how he'd do it.

[Ka-mai]

I kind of thought
It was going to be a cliffhanger, like he wins and then the buggers attack something or other and cut to next book where he saves humanity, or at least starts the process. I dunno. I also thought maybe the buggers were actually the Americans or whatever trying to destroy the Russians without letting anyone know that's what they were doing. Or that the buggers were humans from far away in funky suits. I dunno. I think strange things.

[Hoot]

I've only read the 'main' story arc, Game, Speaker, Xenocide, and Children. I loved them dearly. I haven't tried the other ones because eh... I usually don't enjoy those kind of "side stories".
My favorite of them all was Xenocide though. Mostly because of the story arc of that really disciplined place with the daughter and the father.... [Names elude me right now... I can't remember squat. Argh. I guess I have to reread after I finish the Dark Tower.]

[Telynn]

Read the Bean series. The first book is the only one to be side story. And you find out all kinds of stuff you didn't know about what was going on in Ender's Game. But after that it is a totally different story line. Basically what happens on Earth after the war. Suddenly we don't all have one common enemy anymore.....

[theyspunaweb]

I agree with Telynn, the Bean series are just as great, I consider the 8 all together...

[Ka-mai]

I just read Speaker for the Dead, I really enjoyed it, although things got a little too technical for me at the end. I'm not sure if I just didn't grasp it, or if it didn't really make sense and he was trying to make it anyway. :P Maybe I just need a reread.

Matt's bringing me Xenocide tomorrow. Yay.

[Ka-mai]

I finished all the Ender books and read the first two of the Bean series.

Ender's Game is still the best. No question.

Ender's Shadow was pretty good and it answered some things. Shadow of the Hegemon... I don't know. Too much politics for me. :P

Also, has anyone else noticed Card has a SERIOUS continuity issue?! His details keep changing. People's ages change. I can't remember specifics right now, but the man needs a better editor or something to keep him in line. It's like he doesn't remember his own books and just makes shit up. Oh, the one that bugged me the most? In SotH, they were talking about how Ender grew up in Greensboro. NO HE DID NOT. They moved there after he was sent to Battle School. That's a really big fucking mistake!

[Lily-sai]

I've read them quite a long time ago, but I still remember the deep impact Speaker for the Dead did to me. There's only a few books in your life that really change profoundly your way of thinking. SftD did that to me, managing to shake my thoughts about dead people. Everyone has their reasons why they did things they did. Mind you, I was young when I read it - should consider a reread. ha! :ninja:

[Ka-mai]

I just found out Card wrote yet ANOTHER Ender book, about the time in between Ender's game and Speaker. I'm interested but afraid it's going to suck.

[fernandito]

Are any of you guys reading the Ender's Game/Shadow comics? They're fucking awesome!


Bean :wub:

[Ka-mai]

I did not know there were comics.

I'm intrigued, but don't want to spend a ton of money.

[Ka-mai]

I don't know if any of you knew about this, but I saw that Card recently wrote another Ender book, about his time between Ender's Game and Speaker.

I'm debating if I want to find it or not, it might be terrible. But it might also be great.

[John Blaze]

it's short stories, and it's ok.

[fernandito]

Wow, can't believe this thread has been dormant for two years !

Anyway, I just picked up Shadow Puppets last night. It's been a little under 3 years since I read the last book in the Bean series so I'll probably wikipedia the events of Shadow of the Hegemon to give my memory a jump start. Can't wait to start it. I'll probably follow it up with Ender's Xenocide.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I've read:
ENDER'S GAME
SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD
XENOCIDE
ENDER'S SHADOW
SHADOW OF THE HEGEMON
SHADOW PUPPETS

I was a huge Card fan, loved his books, especially the Alvin Maker series. BUT, although I loved GAME and SPEAKER, I absolutely detested all the following Ender/Bean books I've read, and have actually quit reading Card's books. His whole style (or something) seemed to change after XENOCIDE, and with the exception of only a few of his novels after that, I just could not get into his stuff any more. Which makes me sad, because I still think he's a great writer.

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx239/2ndbiggest/ender.jpg?t=1309566502

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx239/2ndbiggest/xenocide.jpg?t=1309566870

[fernandito]

Interesting. Did you read all of the novels in both the Bean and Ender sagas ? Shadow of the Giant, Ender in Exile, etc. ?

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Interesting. Did you read all of the novels in both the Bean and Ender sagas ? Shadow of the Giant, Ender in Exile, etc. ?

No, SHADOW PUPPETS was the last one I read. All I remember about it is I disliked it very much and had a hard time finishing it. After that, except for a few more books, I quit reading Card entirely.

For some unknown reason I ordered STONEFATHER from Sub Press. Didn't like it much either.

[OchrisO]

I've read all of the books in both the Ender and Bean story arcs and love them all. I like Bean a lot more than Ender, for the most part. However, Speaker for the Dead is probably one of my favorite sci-fi books ever. The Pequeninos are some of the most interesting and intriguing aliens ever. I think that they are the most alien aliens in sci-fi history.

On a related note, my friend has two cats named Ender and Bean.

I kind of hate Orson Scott Card as a person, though, and it sort of taints my love of the books. Here is why I hate him as a person, despite his being a phenomenal author:


In 2006, one day before the 2006 midterm elections in the United States, Card wrote an opinion piece for RealClearPolitics, in which he (while being a Democrat) encouraged voters to support the Republicans.[19] In another article written for the Mormon Times, he voiced strong condemnation of any government that recognized gay marriage stating, "Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down..."[20] In 2009, Card became a member of the board of directors of the National Organization for Marriage, a group that seeks to prevent the legalization of same-sex marriage.[21] Card has called for laws against homosexual behavior to "remain on the books",[22] and a return to the "strong society" of pre-1960s America.

I try to separate myself from that when I think about or read the books, but it annoys me enough that it is difficult. Luckily I read all of the books before I encountered that bit of information about him, so I at least have my first run through the books untainted by his personal and political douchebaggery.

[mtdman]

I've read:
ENDER'S GAME
SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD
XENOCIDE
ENDER'S SHADOW
SHADOW OF THE HEGEMON
SHADOW PUPPETS

I was a huge Card fan, loved his books, especially the Alvin Maker series. BUT, although I loved GAME and SPEAKER, I absolutely detested all the following Ender/Bean books I've read, and have actually quit reading Card's books. His whole style (or something) seemed to change after XENOCIDE, and with the exception of only a few of his novels after that, I just could not get into his stuff any more. Which makes me sad, because I still think he's a great writer.



I know this thread is a bit old, but I really agree with this post. There's a lot of focus on the Ender books with the movie coming out, and I find myself turning my interest to Card and his books. I just listened to some of his short stories from Maps in a Mirror. Card's earlier work is great, I love it. Starting with Children of the Mind and going forward, something changed. I can't read his newer stuff.

And I absolutely did NOT like Bean and those stories. I stopped with Shadow Puppets. IMO the bean series and the whole 'behind the scenes' of what was going on with Ender is cheap. Card rewrote the events of those stories to make Bean look like he was pulling the strings for Ender, and that all of Ender's accomplishments were because of Bean. IMO the only reason he did that was to make more $$ off the Ender series, which should have ended with Xenocide.

I personally don't like Mr King's political view points and his beliefs, but I try to put that aside and read his work for his work. IMO at least Card's politics don't bleed into his work like King's does. I almost don't want to read King's new stuff because it's so full of that crap. And Card is a dyed in the wool mormon. It shouldn't be a surprise what his beliefs are about those issues.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

That's interesting. Although I don't know what King's politics are (and really don't care), I never notice that sort of thing in his stories, probably because I don't look for them. But that could explain in a subconcious way why I don't care for some of his later works.

As for Card, even though I'm about as non-religious as one can get, I enjoyed his religious novels very much! I thought the stories were interesting and that's what counts the most for me - character development and a well written, entertaining yarn.

[Ka-mai]

I think Card is less obnoxious in his religious writings than most authors, and some of his ideas are pretty interesting. Luckily he had enough sense to leave his homophobia out of the books.

What annoys me about his later writings is how he decided John Paul and Theresa knew the whole time what their children were doing. It makes complete and utter sense, and is much more believable than "two oblivious people suddenly had three genius children who did everything under their noses," but it felt like he wrote something that didn't make sense and corrected it, instead of having it in his head the whole time. I think we should have had a hint or two in Ender's Game that they weren't complete morons. So maybe my irritation is more with the handling in Ender's Game.

I just read First Meetings, and while the stories were somewhat interesting, I don't feel they really had a lot of purpose. I think he just wanted to get some more royalties checks.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I wish he would go back to the Alvin Maker world. I found all those books truly fascinating. Card at his best.

[mtdman]

Cards writing about Mormonism almost got me to convert. Almost. Lost Boys is such a good book, and he makes the family life in that book seem very nice, and very desirable. Also Folk of the Fringe and Saints were good books as well, and very 'mormon'. Then there's the Homecoming series, which I dug and devoured and then found out it was his retelling of the book of mormon. He never hits you over the head with his religion, but it's always in there somewhere.

I never got into Alvin Maker. I read the first book and just couldn't get back into it.

However, his best work imo is the Worthing Saga, and all the stories surrounding that tale (including the anthology Capital and Worthing Chronicle/Hot Sleep). That was one of my first non-King audio books I downloaded from Audible and I've listened to that over and over again. That book really introduced me to Card, many years ago.


I think he just wanted to get some more royalties checks. Boy I couldn't agree more. IMO the reason why his writing has fallen off is he's putting it out like crazy and trying to make more $$ off his stories now that they are more well known. As I wrote above, I didn't dig him basically rewriting the whole Ender's Game events to make it all Bean who was doing the work behind the scenes. It cheapens everything he did in Ender's Game. I really liked EG and SftD, they were great books to begin with without all the rewriting and re imagining of the story.

Two other pretty good works I dig that are also great audio books are Treason and Wyrms. I liked them when I read them, and the audio production were very entertaining.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Just a quick post to show how tastes differ:

LOST BOYS - Excellent!
FOLK OF THE FRINGE - So-so
SAINTS - Pretty darn good
HOMECOMING SERIES - Not interesting at all
WORTHING SAGA - GREAT!
TREASON and WORMS - Liked them both

[John Blaze]

I'm on book 3 of the Homecoming series and I like it, although I don't think it's as good as any of the Bean books, maybe on par with the last 3 Ender books. I differ from most people in this thread because I think the Shadow series is the best of the two, although I think Ender's Game is his best book. IDK, it just felt more relevant to me, maybe because it's more contemporary.

[Jimimck]

I've read all the Ender books, but haven't gotten around to the Bean series. Some of the comments above have me wondering if I should?

I really enjoyed the Ender series, and liked him (although wasn't totally impressed with how is character ended up at the end of the saga).

Thoughts? Should I be looking to read the bean series too?

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I dislike the Bean books, but that's just my opinion. Like I said, I only liked ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD. Loved them, actually. But after that I totally disliked every other book I read in the series, much to my dissapointment because I wanted to like them.

[Ka-mai]

I liked parts of the Bean series very much, while others seemed to drag/be confusing/contradict Ender's Game. So I'd say they're worth a read, but I can't positively guarantee you'll enjoy it. I did.

[John Blaze]

I loved them, best series as a whole, imo.

[mtdman]

I'm on book 3 of the Homecoming series and I like it, although I don't think it's as good as any of the Bean books, maybe on par with the last 3 Ender books. I differ from most people in this thread because I think the Shadow series is the best of the two, although I think Ender's Game is his best book. IDK, it just felt more relevant to me, maybe because it's more contemporary.

The first 3 books are the best books in that series. IMO book 4 and 5 are weird and confusing. I devoured that series when I read it, all 5 books in one week. I really liked that series. I should put that on my audio to do list.

[John Blaze]

I haven't had much time to read, but I started book one Sunday morning. :) I'm enjoying it. Only thing that doesn't feel real to me is the level of antagonism between the brothers.

[mtdman]

I'm doing a listen of EG right now. Something that struck me about Card's ideas about the internet and the discourse on the net.

In EG and again in the 2nd Bean book, the kids are able to have these awesome discussions on the internet, and Val and Peter influence the world through their writing. When I read the 2nd Bean book, it got me interested in going on the net and having these discussions online on forums like Val and Peter and Bean do. It struck me today that Card's vision of the level of discourse on the net is completely wrong. In his theory, it's a great thing that leads people and allows people to soar and inspire others, a tool for brilliant people to influence the world. In reality, we've got things like twitter and message boards where people post pictures of their boobs.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Card's opinion of human intelligence is highly optimistic.

[Brice]

I think it's both things simultaneously.


I'm unfamiliar with Card. I think I've read like one story by him.

[mtdman]

Card's opinion of human intelligence is highly optimistic.

No kiddng. I like his writing, but reading about incredibly brilliant characters in every one of his books gets boring. They're all incredible and prodigies, etc. It's a bit unrealistic, and imo that's one of the problems with the Ender series.

[Ka-mai]

He kind of counters that by saying the Battle School is a collection of all the brilliant kids on earth, and that's who he's following. He doesn't have much of a reason to bring in the 8 billion normal or stupid people, because who would read about that?

I also feel like he wrote his now-ridiculous interpretation of the internet as a place for intelligent discussion at a time when the internet could have evolved into that... if the world wasn't filled with trolls.

[mtdman]

He kind of counters that by saying the Battle School is a collection of all the brilliant kids on earth, and that's who he's following. He doesn't have much of a reason to bring in the 8 billion normal or stupid people, because who would read about that?

I also feel like he wrote his now-ridiculous interpretation of the internet as a place for intelligent discussion at a time when the internet could have evolved into that... if the world wasn't filled with trolls.

It's more than just the battle school. It kinda starts with Xenocide where every character suddenly is brilliant and the best at what they do. When he gets to the Bean series of books, it just gets absurd the way he creates Bean as this infant character that's incredibly brilliant and developed. I don't buy into it. Characters like that get very boring and flat out implausible, imo.

[TwistedNadine]

I dislike the Bean books, but that's just my opinion. Like I said, I only liked ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD. Loved them, actually. But after that I totally disliked every other book I read in the series, much to my dissapointment because I wanted to like them.

Enders Game was excellent and I quickly added the series to my priority read list until hearing the disappointing reviews of the other books. I dont want to ruin the Enders Game experience so wont be reading the others. But I am interested to see how they translate the book into the upcoming movie. I think Harrison Ford is a perfect choice for Graff, but I question the choice for Ender.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/

[Ka-mai]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with Ender (just looking at that kid, I want to punch him in the face) but Graff, Valentine, Mazer and Anderson look great. I also love that the kids are actually multiracial, I expected them to whitewash it.

I think it's terribly unfair this movie is over a year away. :( :P

[fernandito]

I left off on Speaker for the Dead in Ender's Saga. You guys are saying I should cry off the rest the series?

I don't think I can do that. :( Not knowing how Ender's journey ends would kill me.

[Ka-mai]

Keep going. Yeah, it's not the best, but it's not so freaking awful it's unreadable.

[TwistedNadine]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with Ender (just looking at that kid, I want to punch him in the face) :( :P

lol my reaction wasnt quite as extreme but I do think they could have chosen someone a but more intense and less wimpy looking

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I guess Card has written a trilogy about the events BEFORE Ender.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/earth-unaware-orson-scott-card/1107085830?r=1&ean=9780765329042&cm_em=steveabc007%40att.net&cm_mmc=Other-_-This_Week-_-120717_NF_NEW_RELEASE_TUESDAY-_-

[Ka-mai]

"The mining ship El Cavador..."

Mining for royalties, I suppose.

[BigSchu22]

I didn't even know this thread existed! I just finished reading most of the books in the Ender and Shadow series. Here's the list of what I just read and order:

Ender's Shadow
Shadow of the Hegemon
Shadow Puppets
Shadow of the Giant
Speaker for the Dead
Xenocide
Children of the Mind
Ender in Exile
Shadows in Flight

I read the shadow series first since I had already read the 4 Ender books about 2 years before. After the shadow series, I went back to the Ender books skipping Ender's game since Ender's shadow has a lot of the same events. Then, it was a natural progression from the Ender books to Ender in Exile. Shadows in Flight was last simply because it hadn't been released yet.

Earth Unaware comes out soon, what do you guys think about that one? Should I get it?

[BigSchu22]

I just wanted to add that I greatly enjoyed the Shadow Series. It seems a lot of people are indifferent to it or didn't like it at all. Since I'm in the military, I really enjoyed all the discussions of the different strategies and tactics that the various nations would use against each other. Card says in one of his afterwards that he played a lot of Risk and it shows, the details as far as the war on Earth are amazing.

Going into the Shadow Series immediately after Ender's Game would probably be a good idea since it takes place chronologically after EG, but before SotH. I found my order particularly good, all of the details of each story were clear in my mind anyway.

[John Blaze]

I'm sure I said this already, but I thought the Shadow series was the best, although as a stand alone book Ender's Game is my favorite.

[fernandito]

I was kinda lukewarm on Shadow Puppets to be honest. Is Shadow of the Giant better?

[John Blaze]

I thought it was, but you might not think so. In case you didn't know the newest books tie the 2 series together.

[BigSchu22]

Well, the last book was supposed to tie everything together, but Card got greedy or his publishers did and split the last book into two books: Shadows in Flight and Shadows Alive. From what I remember, Shadows in Flight didn't tie anything together and actually kind of retcons some stuff from some of the later Ender books. Oh, Shadows in Flight is a Bean book, but Ender is briefly mentioned. Hopefully, Shadows Alive will tie the two series together and shed a little more light on the Descoladores.

[John Blaze]

I meant the last Ender book, Ender in Exile.

[BigSchu22]

Oh OK. Yeah Ender in Exile did, you're right. I hope they pickup with Bean's legacy from Ender in Exile, in Shadows Alive, if you know what I mean by Bean's legacy.

[John Blaze]

Yes, lol. I haven't read Shadows in flight, tbh I didn't even know it was out until you posted about it. I'll be buying it soon.

[BigSchu22]

Yes, lol. I haven't read Shadows in flight, tbh I didn't even know it was out until you posted about it. I'll be buying it soon.

SiA is pretty short. I wish they had not broken it out of Shadows Alive, but I did enjoy returning to Bean for brief time and spending some time with his family.

[Fox92]

Hey, guys!
Well, the thread is a bit forgotten, but maybe someone's still interested in it... Is anybody waiting for the upcoming movie?
Actually, I'm a little confused here :unsure: I've read Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, and now I'm thinking what is better to go on with - Shadow of the Hegemon or Speaker for the Dead? A lot of people don't like Speaker, but I wanted more Ender than Bean in the story, to be honest. But maybe there is enough Ender in Shadow of the Hegemon? Which book is more interesting in the whole?

[harrison ryan]

There is very little Ender in Shadow of the Hegemon, only passing references IIRC. That novel continues the story of Bean on Earth while Ender is basically just (time) travelling on a space ship. If you want to read about Ender, go with Speaker for the Dead. No question.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I loved ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD. The rest of the series and series spinoffs that I read left me cold.

[harrison ryan]

I loved ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD. The rest of the series and series spinoffs that I read left me cold.

Same here, pretty much. I did like Ender's Shadow quite a bit, and Xenocide to a certain extent. The rest of the Shadow series? Not so much. And I still haven't finished Children of the Mind.

[fernandito]

A lot of people don't like Speaker, but I wanted more Ender than Bean in the story, to be honest.

Don't let the naysayers deter you, Speaker is a great novel. Just know that Ender is much, much older in that. It's great to see him grapple with the ethical ramifications of his exploits in EG.

[Fox92]

Thank you, guys)
Okay, Speaker's waiting for me :biggrin:

[Fox92]

A lot of people don't like Speaker, but I wanted more Ender than Bean in the story, to be honest.

Don't let the naysayers deter you, Speaker is a great novel. Just know that Ender is much, much older in that. It's great to see him grapple with the ethical ramifications of his exploits in EG.

Wow, that sounds great!)
Well, I think all Card's works are great novels, each in its own way...

[Jean]

Hey, guys!
Well, the thread is a bit forgotten, but maybe someone's still interested in it... Is anybody waiting for the upcoming movie?
Actually, I'm a little confused here :unsure: I've read Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow, and now I'm thinking what is better to go on with - Shadow of the Hegemon or Speaker for the Dead? A lot of people don't like Speaker, but I wanted more Ender than Bean in the story, to be honest. But maybe there is enough Ender in Shadow of the Hegemon? Which book is more interesting in the whole?
wow, my Fox is back!!! Too bad bears can't comment, they haven't read it...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)

[John Blaze]

I don't see all the hate the Bean novels get, I thought as a series the shadow series is best. I did enjoy the Ender books though. Harrison, it's good to see you around again.

[harrison ryan]

I don't see all the hate the Bean novels get, I thought as a series the shadow series is best. I did enjoy the Ender books though. Harrison, it's good to see you around again.

Thanks, bro. I for one definitely don't hate the Shadow books or I wouldn't have finished them all. I just found myself progressively less interested in the story and less involved with the characters as the series progressed, but the same was true of the Ender saga. I think the first books of both series are far and away the best, and I'm looking forward to the movie. That first trailer looks pretty cool.

[fernandito]

speaking of which, let's get that sucker in here


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP0cUBi4hwE

[Fox92]

wow, my Fox is back!!! Too bad bears can't comment, they haven't read it...

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/loved.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/loved.gif.html)

Hiiii, Jean! ))) Yeah, I needed an English-speaking site and I was like "Ha! The Dark Tower!" ))
Well, READ! :D

[Fox92]

I don't see all the hate the Bean novels get, I thought as a series the shadow series is best. I did enjoy the Ender books though. Harrison, it's good to see you around again.

Well, I didn't like Bean at first. In Ender's Shadow I mean. Too complicated discussions, too much cruelty and murders commited by children - again. I'm glad at least Bean didn't kill anyone :D But then after Dragons it was absolutely different for me, especially Bean's attitude towards Ender.
And finally I found Ender's Shadow more perfect than Ender's Game... Much deeper.

[Jean]

Hiiii, Jean! ))) Yeah, I needed an English-speaking site and I was like "Ha! The Dark Tower!" ))
ah... oh... I thought you missed the bear...

Well, READ! :D
Ma'am, yes, Ma'am! Your wish is my command!

[Fox92]

ah... oh... I thought you missed the bear...

Well, that was implied, actually ;)



Ma'am, yes, Ma'am! Your wish is my command!

Oh, so nice :D

[Ka-mai]

Hi, Harrison!

I posted the trailer in the movie trailer thread, too. I think it looks amazing, but I'm a little confused because it looks like they put the ending in the trailer?

[harrison ryan]

Hi, Harrison!

Hey-HEY-hey! (http://wavs.unclebubby.com/wav/TV/Top100TV/55hey3.wav)

Yeah, not sure what's up with the spoilery. Maybe it's not what it looks like...?

[Fox92]

Yeah, not sure what's up with the spoilery. Maybe it's not what it looks like...?

Who cares? Nobody knows what this really means (except those who read the book, of course).

[Ka-mai]

Yes, but I have a dislike of movie trailers that show all the best stuff and then when you get to the movie everything is either average or something you've seen. I just don't want it to be one of those situations.

[harrison ryan]

Yeah, not sure what's up with the spoilery. Maybe it's not what it looks like...?

Who cares? Nobody knows what this really means (except those who read the book, of course).

I agree. I have read the book and I'm still not sure what I'm seeing.

[Jean]

does anyone else (except the Fox :rose:) think that bears might like the series? I've looked through the wiki article and was intimidated

[pathoftheturtle]

Don't be. It's a light novel on one level; no one will pressure you, I'm sure, to delve into the whole mythos. I'd say have a go, whenever.

[John Blaze]

I don't see all the hate the Bean novels get, I thought as a series the shadow series is best. I did enjoy the Ender books though. Harrison, it's good to see you around again.

Thanks, bro. I for one definitely don't hate the Shadow books or I wouldn't have finished them all. I just found myself progressively less interested in the story and less involved with the characters as the series progressed, but the same was true of the Ender saga. I think the first books of both series are far and away the best, and I'm looking forward to the movie. That first trailer looks pretty cool.
agreed

[Jean]

Don't be. It's a light novel on one level; no one will pressure you, I'm sure, to delve into the whole mythos. I'd say have a go, whenever.thank you! I think I will

[fernandito]

The first novel is an extremely light read, but the groundwork is laid out for some of the series' more dense, philosophical elements.

[Jean]

I see... bears intensely dislike dense, philosophical elements in fiction. I will have a go at the first book, though.

[fernandito]

It's not too bad, it's just that in comparison to the first novel it's denser.

Why don't you like fiction with some philosophy in there? It seems that if any genre is ripe for mining it it would be fiction. Sphere is a great example, I think.

[Jean]

everything depends on how explicitly it is presented

[pathoftheturtle]

Dense philosophy is mined in certain non-fiction if you've a taste for explicit explication.

[Jean]

Yes. And while it's just what is expected of non-fiction, with fiction it's just the other way round and only exposes the author as lacking the talent to provoke his readers thinking for themselves

[pathoftheturtle]

Yes. And while it's just what is expected of non-fiction, with fiction it's just the other way round and only exposes the author as lacking the talent to provoke his readers thinking for themselvesWell now you do have to read everything by Orson Scott Card, so that you can tell us whether that criticism is on topic. It's too complicated for me.

[Jean]

I don't think I said anything complicated (or profound, or anything I didn't say before). I mean, if in DT3 we read (quoted by heart)

"I'll never let you fall again," said Roland.
But deep in his heart he felt the Dark Tower calling him, and he wondered

it's one thing; namely, something we've been thinking, talking, arguing, crying, tormenting ourselves about for decades. If we had to read speculations, however interesting, clever and deep, on the meaning of sacrifice and what it does to human soul and what are values and what is or isn't worth what - it would be quite another, totally out of place in a work of fiction, and not 0.00001 per cent as effective.

I do have to read Card, of course. I will when I come back from my travels (mid-June)

[pathoftheturtle]

I know you have said this before. And we've argued a little. You can certainly point to clear examples that support the standard; passages which are poetic and layered versus ones which are blunt and narrow. Yet there are grey areas; that's what makes it complicated. Especially in science fiction, religious fiction, certain others.

The truth is that authors who approach universal themes in a drama, no matter how talented, always to some degree remain locked in their own perspective. We all do. Some know it, others don't... and whether you get that or not isn't always even the most important factor in presenting something of value, I think.
At times I may say, "This guy plainly has a point of view in what he's written here that might be untrue, but I still see more going on. Among all the writers who have slightly closed minds, this one is fairly bright in some ways." I don't know about you, though.

Reading pulp, I've developed a thicker skin overall -- the gems in the refuse are actually few and far between. Sometimes I wonder whether it's worth all the lifetime I have spent on it. As youths, we kind of assume that the creators behind what you can see in publication all have noble intentions; eventually we understand that they have many different motives. And most people are pretty rotten, from my own point of view. I acknowledge now that much of what I read could be categorized as "slightly closed" and "somewhat preachy." Whether it would be better to avoid this category altogether and actually read only Shakespeare, I haven't decided.

[Jean]

grrr, Mike, why do we always have to start the most interesting discussions primo: in the wrong threads, and secundo: when I have to go away?

I'll be back in three weeks (I hope I'll be able to check the site time to time, but not to write anything coherent)

[pathoftheturtle]

Bon voyage. You can talk to me any time. On threads about all different books and works of art, I keep drifting into the subjects of Books and Artwork. Maybe I'm lost. But really, I'm just trying to answer: some authors are talented, some are not talented, Orson Scott Card is in somewhere between the best and the worst.

[Jean]

[But really, I'm just trying to answer: some authors are talented, some are not talented, This, absolutely. If an author is talented, no additional considerations matter. On the other hand, with those who are

somewhere between the best and the worst.
there are a lot of things that influence the impression

: back soon :

[fernandito]

[But really, I'm just trying to answer: some authors are talented, some are not talented, This, absolutely. If an author is talented, no additional considerations matter.

OSC is one such author.

[Jean]

good

[pathoftheturtle]

Highly Romantic, but I cannot buy it, I'm afraid. Even if a writer has some talents, that never means that other specific writers could not be more talented, or that the writer is necessarily exempted from other forms of rational criticism.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Ender's books:

http://i759.photobucket.com/albums/xx239/2ndbiggest/ENDERSbooks.jpg

[fernandito]

wtf, there's going to be a prequel trilogy?

http://www.examiner.com/review/earth-unaware-the-first-formic-war-the-prequel-series-to-ender-s-game?cid=rss

[Ka-mai]

I probably won't read the prequels. I enjoyed the Ender series and Bean series, but the other books he's come out with since that fill in backstory could have been left unwritten. I think he's just greedy for some royalty checks.

Did anyone go see the movie? I loved it. It wasn't perfect, but visually it was incredible. I hope the new Star Wars movies look more like this and less like episodes I-III. I didn't see one single scene that looked cartoonish or badly layered. I wish they had been able to go into Valentine and Peter taking over the nets, but that would have added another hour to the movie probably.

[Lookwhoitis]

enjoyed the film immensely.

Never read the books (even with my voracious diet of SF consumption at an early age)

I will be seeking them out

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

I saw and enjoyed the movie. I hope they do SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD next.

Wasn't Valentine and Peter taking over the world done mostly on computer? It's been a long time since I read the books. That might have been sort of boring on film? Just a speculation though.

[Ka-mai]

It was, but they spent a lot of time conversing between themselves on how to accomplish what they wanted, and that was an interesting dynamic. But it would have added a lot of time to the movie, and the audience members who hadn't read the books probably would have found it boring because it's not about Ender.

[mattgreenbean]

Saw the movie and was pretty happy with it. I read the book 12-13 years ago; watching the movie I felt like they got the core of the book on to the screen from what I remembered.