Slow Going...

[mae]

Unlike most of you here, I'm a Stephen King fan first, and a Dark Tower fan second. Not much of a fan really, to me the Dark Tower novels are simply other King books. I also only recently started reading them, and I'm now about a quarter or a third into Wizard & Glass. Now forgive my insolence, but I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going, and very jarring in light of the preceding action. I loved The Drawing of the Three; being a slow reader that was probably the fastest I ever finished a book of that size - in under a week. I know it will get better, King's books always do, but it just feels very different at this point.

[Letti]

1. Not much of a fan really, to me the Dark Tower novels are simply other King books.
2. I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going, and very jarring in light of the preceding action.

1. Uhhh... incredible. Do you say it didn't move under your skin and into your mind? Do you say you can't feel Roland's eyes on you wherever you go? Do you say doors are just doors to you?
Incredible.
2. Oh, you are not alone with it at all. Many people feel and felt the same way. Not me, I loved it as it was and I would be happy if it had been much longer but don't worry - lots of folks felt it very slow.

Let me know what you think of it when you have finished it. :) I am interested in it a lot.

[Wuducynn]

to me the Dark Tower novels are simply other King books..

:shoot: Thems is fightin' words son!

[Matt]

I think W&G begins to have much more significance as the story unfolds, it really is like the "origin" story for the book series.

I will admit I was itching to get back to Roland during it but now its tied with DOTT as my favorite.

[jayson]

... but I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going, and very jarring in light of the preceding action. I loved The Drawing of the Three; being a slow reader that was probably the fastest I ever finished a book of that size - in under a week. I know it will get better, King's books always do, but it just feels very different at this point.

just keep going. soon enough you will be involved enough in that story that you won't want the "flashback" to end.

[sarah]

pablo, I'm glad you're giving the books a go. W&G can have some slower parts but I think that is the way it is meant to be. This is the behind the scenes of Roland of Gilead. I would suggest that you read every word and take your time. A lot of his story plays into the characters in the last three books.

Keep us updated. :)

[Storyslinger]

Unlike most of you here, I'm a Stephen King fan first, and a Dark Tower fan second. Not much of a fan really, to me the Dark Tower novels are simply other King books. I also only recently started reading them, and I'm now about a quarter or a third into Wizard & Glass. Now forgive my insolence, but I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going, and very jarring in light of the preceding action. I loved The Drawing of the Three; being a slow reader that was probably the fastest I ever finished a book of that size - in under a week. I know it will get better, King's books always do, but it just feels very different at this point.

Just stick with it, you won't regret it.

[mae]

to me the Dark Tower novels are simply other King books..

:shoot: Thems is fightin' words son!


Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone, please don't misunderstand. I just know that there are Stephen King fans that do not like the Dark Tower novels and then there are Dark Tower fans that don't read anything else by Stephen King. I'm neither.

[Matt]

Don't worry about him Pablo--he's antisocial :lol:

I think you are probably right, I happen to like most of what King does but really focus on the Dark Tower because I feel like the message encompasses most of his work.

[Wuducynn]

Yeah, don't worry about me, I was just kidding with you. Also, I'm not anti-social, just psychotic.

[Matt]

I was trying to be nice. :rolleyes:

[fernandito]

...and then there are Dark Tower fans that don't read anything else by Stephen King.

I find this hard to believe.

[mae]

I don't even mind the slowness per se. One of my favorite novels of King's is Insomnia. This just feels like a different novel all of a sudden. But I like the writing, the language.




...and then there are Dark Tower fans that don't read anything else by Stephen King.

I find this hard to believe.


It's true, unfortunately.

[fernandito]

People that you know personally, or is it just an assumption? I ask because I've never heard of this up until now.

[mae]

Not personally but some that I've encountered on various forums.

[fernandito]

Wow, that is sad.


[weep]

See? Redirect them over here so that we can give em' a BRUTAL, VIOLENT, SAVAGE--!!


--talking to.

[MonteGss]

I agree with feev...I've never heard of only a DT fan. That is a little sad. Besides, there are so many books that have a little bit of DT in them! I was a King fan first but now I'm a bigger DT fan. :)

[Darkthoughts]

When I first read WaG it instantly became my favourite DT book...because i was literally dying for some of Roland's backstory and it gave above and beyond what i was expecting.

It has paled on rereads, probably because its a "one night stand" kinda book, ie it loses some of its intial magic in the retelling. But i still love it and never find it boring :)

[ATG]

I think W&G begins to have much more significance as the story unfolds, it really is like the "origin" story for the book series.

I will admit I was itching to get back to Roland during it but now its tied with DOTT as my favorite.


I was too, but there came a point in the story when I oddly longed for it.

[Jean]

I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going
Quite.


and very jarring in light of the preceding action.
Very.

It is going to be a little better at times, but not very often. A lot better towards the end, though.


When I first read WaG it instantly became my favourite DT book...because i was literally dying for some of Roland's backstory and it gave above and beyond what i was expecting.
This is something I can't really get. Roland's backstory was brilliantly given in those flashbacks in other volumes (and even at the end of this one, I mean what Walter showed in the glass), but when it became a separate volume, it somehow lost all its vigor and importance, - strictly personal opinion, of course, - became lifeless and forced. All those flashbacks were concentrated on the most important, really revealing moments, and the way they were written made them stick in one's mind forever. They, those crucial moments, told worlds about Roland, while the weak soup of W&G served for me only to (temporarily, thank God) dilute whatever empathy I had developed for him.

[Wuducynn]

while the weak soup of W&G served for me only to (temporarily, thank God) dilute whatever empathy I had developed for him.

I'm getting the strong feeling that Wizard and Glass is your least favorite of the series, Jean. Stab in the dark here...

[Jean]

No, it's The Gunslinger
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_tongue.gif

[fernandito]

(heart attack)

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_whistle.gif

[Woofer]

Not personally but some that I've encountered on various forums.

I can believe this. There's little of the horror in his usual works, so many people who would not normally read him will devour TDT series.


I agree with feev...I've never heard of only a DT fan. That is a little sad. Besides, there are so many books that have a little bit of DT in them! I was a King fan first but now I'm a bigger DT fan. :)

I, too, was a King fan first - last and always, too. The Stand is my favorite of his individual novels (complete and uncut, say thankya). The Dark Tower... well, sigh, TDT is one of my all-time favorite book series.



I'm finding this very lengthy flashback quite slow going
Quite.


and very jarring in light of the preceding action.
Very.

It is going to be a little better at times, but not very often. A lot better towards the end, though.


When I first read WaG it instantly became my favourite DT book...because i was literally dying for some of Roland's backstory and it gave above and beyond what i was expecting.
This is something I can't really get. Roland's backstory was brilliantly given in those flashbacks in other volumes (and even at the end of this one, I mean what Walter showed in the glass), but when it became a separate volume, it somehow lost all its vigor and importance, - strictly personal opinion, of course, - became lifeless and forced. All those flashbacks were concentrated on the most important, really revealing moments, and the way they were written made them stick in one's mind forever. They, those crucial moments, told worlds about Roland, while the weak soup of W&G served for me only to (temporarily, thank God) dilute whatever empathy I had developed for him.

You say true.

[NeedfulKings]

Stick with it, pablo. During my first journey for the Dark Tower, The Gunslinger and W&G were my two least faves.

When I re-read the series, these were the two MOST anticipated books. And, they far exceeded my desires.

As with most, it's interesting to learn more of Roland as a youth. I absolutely love the story that unfolds when we first start across the desert. W&G compliments it.

[Matt]

I, too, was a King fan first - last and always, too. The Stand is my favorite of his individual novels (complete and uncut, say thankya). The Dark Tower... well, sigh, TDT is one of my all-time favorite book series.

I very much agree with this, and it makes me an even bigger King fan in the process. So much to love and cherish.

I don't agree on Jeans point though. I think W&G gave is more than a flashback, it gave us a workable representation of Roland's world in the last of its light. I was personally aching for more insight but it did drag the first time. For me, the beauty of the story really comes out when taken in context of the whole series.

That ache for insight, its still going on which is why I'm all over this comic series.

[Woofer]

Don't get me wrong. I was glad and grateful for the backstory, but I did not like the romance aspect. I know it was critical in understanding how and why Roldand is as is he is, but I don't have to like it. Every single time I read

Susan's pondering if she had met Cuthbert first,

I think to myself 'Man, I sure wish you had.' :D However, I love all the non-romance parts.

Also, I will admit that each reading is minutely faster and the romance part microscopically less annoying.

[jayson]

I think W&G gave is more than a flashback, it gave us a workable representation of Roland's world in the last of its light. ... For me, the beauty of the story really comes out when taken in context of the whole series.

Same here. It was a look at his world the way it was. Call it a flashback if you will, but I learned more about Roland and his world from that book than I had from any others to that point.


That ache for insight, its still going on which is why I'm all over this comic series.

Not long now!!!!!

[mae]

I actually liked The Gunslinger a lot. I just can't wait to get back to the present and continue the journey.

[mae]

Well, I must say the story really picked up later. I read about a hundred pages this past Sunday, which is huge for me, as I'm a slow reader. It was very good! I now have about just a quarter to go (around page 550 of the Grant hardcover, as they prepare their sabotage and Roland and Susan are said to be "together" for the last time).

[Letti]

Let us know what you think about this book when you are finished. :) I am happy to see you find it interesting.

[dancingnancies]

just finished WnG i agree with the previous guy about it being slow at the onset of the novel, it took me about a month to get throught the first 250 pgs. and about 4 days for the remainder...in the end i think i appreciated the long slow build up with the rapid fire ending...

also, i am a DT fan more than a SK fan at this point...i have only started to read the talisman and couldnt really get into before a friend ttold me i MUST read the DT...so i guess it remains to be seen if this series will convert me to a SK constant reader...as i type this i am opeing WOLVES for the first time...i can only hope it is ka's will that i am this excited after i finish the next installment...

[John_and_Yoko]

Yeah, Wizard and Glass was a different way of writing, very non-linear. But given that you don't know much about why Roland is the way he is (and being a unique character, you might want that), it makes sense to have it here. Plus I think there's a bit of foreshadowing in there that's crucial to the plot of the story....

I myself had difficulty getting used to it, but it ended up being very deep, and so it graduated from "mere" excitement and entertainment into the truly "moving." That's where it really starts to be about people, and to be "literary" (if I use the word aright).

Anyway, I'm more of a Dark Tower fan than a Stephen King fan in general, but I have enjoyed some of the King's non-Dark Tower books (bearing in mind I haven't read that many). Insomnia makes the top of that list so far.

But I am inspired to read more Stephen King as a result (and especially with all the connections involved!).

[Letti]

dancingnancies, I know the feeling altought I do love Stephen King I prefer to call myself a DT junkie.
I have read W&G many times and I can't get bored of it. And for my part I don't find it slow (but I can understand the ones who do) because I find every sentence interesting in it.

[bodacious ta-tas]

I'm re-reading the series (about 4th time, cause I've re-read the first books years ago) and am on W&G now. I remember the first time reading it, I was also kind of impatient to get back to the "main" characters in the story. But now, I'm drinking in every word, and I find Roland's past extremely fascinating.
I think if you look at this part as a flashback, your not letting yourself enjoy this story, cause you're waiting to get back to the main story. We are given fair warning of Roland's upcoming tale. Jake asks if it's gonna be a Western, and Eddie says, "All of his stories are Westerns" (not an exact quote-don't have book at work). Also, we leave Roland, Eddie, and Susannah at a comfortable part in their travels; they have made it through traveling on Blaine, they have made it through Lud, and they are not in immenent danger. If SK had left them in a cliffhanger suituation, it would have made it difficult to forget about them for the time it takes to hear Roland's story.

[Scar]

I am about one third of the way through W&G. I must admit that I had no idea this lengthy flashback was coming. I was so into the main story line that I was first very disappointed in the f/b. Now as I am getting into the story of the f/b, I can't wait until I get back to the main story with the knowledge I will have after W&G. It is still slower going than it was before but I am forcing myself to read.

[Jean]

that's what I felt when I was reading it the first time...





... nothing changed on re-reads, either

[Letti]

For my part I hoped it would never end.

[The Lady of Shadows]

Well, I must say the story really picked up later. I read about a hundred pages this past Sunday, which is huge for me, as I'm a slow reader. It was very good! I now have about just a quarter to go (around page 550 of the Grant hardcover, as they prepare their sabotage and Roland and Susan are said to be "together" for the last time).

so pablo. how's it going on this? almost finished? finished? already travelling in the calla? enquiring minds want to know :)



I am about one third of the way through W&G. I must admit that I had no idea this lengthy flashback was coming. I was so into the main story line that I was first very disappointed in the f/b. Now as I am getting into the story of the f/b, I can't wait until I get back to the main story with the knowledge I will have after W&G. It is still slower going than it was before but I am forcing myself to read.

scar, try not to look at this as just a flashback. try to look at this as part of the reason what you call the main story is going in the direction that it's going in. i loved wizard and glass, couldn't put it down so i read it through in one long sitting - all afternoon, all night, into the next morning. then when i fell asleep i dreamed. . . well, mayhap we'll talk about that when you're finished. stay with it, it's well worth it. :)

[mae]

Well, I must say the story really picked up later. I read about a hundred pages this past Sunday, which is huge for me, as I'm a slow reader. It was very good! I now have about just a quarter to go (around page 550 of the Grant hardcover, as they prepare their sabotage and Roland and Susan are said to be "together" for the last time).

so pablo. how's it going on this? almost finished? finished? already travelling in the calla? enquiring minds want to know :)



Not yet, unfortunately. Haven't had much free time lately, so the book has stalled with around 50 pages to go. Itching to get back to it :)

[Brainslinger]

>scar, try not to look at this as just a flashback.

I agree. The Dark Tower series is every bit about the adventures the ka-tet have on their way to the Tower as it is about the quest itself. (Actually, I would argue more so.) Roland's earlier adventures should be viewed as part of that, the first adventure if you will, which set him on that quest.

I did find the whole backstory (not flashback mind, as it is most of the book!) dragged a bit for me too. But when I got into it, it was fine, and I enjoyed myself. (I wasn't keen on the romantic stuff mind, but that's just my own personal taste.) Actually, as far as a good old fashioned adventure is concerned, I reckon that story ticks most of the boxes. You might notice that much of the plot resolutions are taken from within the story rather than silver bullets apparently popping out of nowhere. The latter is understandable in this series where coincidence is suspended and ka rules all, but it's nice to see King write a story that doesn't rely on those rules.

It was also nice to see a depiction of that world that was a true living breathing place in it's own world, something that started in The Waste Lands I think with the country training and the folk of River Crossing and Ludd. Before then it was more like a dream world with thin places and doors in mid air. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it's nice to have the balance.) Sure there is a thinnie near Hambry, but it's main purpose in this book is that of a hazard, a monster, rather than a doorway between worlds.

[Ka-tet]

Yeah, don't worry about me, I was just kidding with you. Also, I'm not anti-social, just psychotic.

Actauly hes an anti-social phychopath.

And keep going with W&G, i promise you wont be dissapointed.

And just as a statment this isnt the first time ive heard somone say this about this book, and to be honest it suprises me every time, for me it was the best one. I found it hard to put down.

[Matt]

Very good observation Brainslinger, I completely agree with that.

W&G, within the context of the whole series is special to me because it represents things which could be considered outside the loop

[mae]

Well I just finished the "flashback" portion of the novel, and just started the last "present time" part. I must say, I was a little sad it was over, probably because it ended rather abruptly. Looking back, I think it was, of course, the right decision. Just a tad jarring at first. Overall, I greatly enjoyed this volume, still have about 50 pages to go, but for me The Drawing of the Three remains the best one thus far. Eagerly anticipating starting the next book.

[Letti]

Pablo, I am really really happy you could enjoy it.

[Ricky]

I read The Dark Tower 1-3 and am now reading Wizard and Glass. I really thought that this would be my favorite one out of the series. I'm almost to page 200 and I can't bear to read it anymore. It was fine up until Part II: Susan. It just all went downhill from there. Now it feels like it's a whole different book.

I've been trying to get past this section for 3-4 days now and I'm finding it harder and harder to do so. Up until this section, I couldn't wait to keep reading. Now it just feels like punishment to read this section.

Is this section crucial to the story? If so, why do I find it so hard to get into? I was really enjoying the series and I hope that it starts to get better.

Did anyone else find this section hard to read in Wizard and Glass?

[Jean]

Ricky I do so feel your pain! you are telling me my own story now, - only I was waiting for that volume for years, and when Alexander brought it to me from London I couldn't, for the only time in the long history of our friendship, wait for him to go back to England so I could relish the contituation of the old story of Roland and Eddie and Susannah and Jake - and then oops.

Please do not understand it that I hated it only because of that frustration, though. I already wrote about it elsewhere (I am afraid, everywhere would be more correct) - I find this piece weak, second-hand from the point of view of writing, dragging, uselessly lengthy, cliched, not really adding anything to the main story that couldn't be added in short flashbacks (like it was done in The Gunslinger).

The only comfort I can offer is that, first, it will end some day... and then, there will be some redeeming features, mainly closer to the end of the "section". And, of course, when it is finally ended and the real story comes back, that's big-time bliss!

[razz]

well my first read i found the whole flashback so boring i could hardly pay attention, and would randomly skip pages. the second time through i couldn't stop myself from reading it, and even threw a chair when the light bulb in my room died in the middle of reading

[Jean]

doesn't it only mean that years of school education have finally wrecked your nervous system? I would throw a chair should my light bulb die even if I was reading Selected Inaugural Addresses... or Mein Kampf... http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_tongue.gif

[Ricky]

I find this piece weak, second-hand from the point of view of writing, dragging, uselessly lengthy, cliched, not really adding anything to the main story that couldn't be added in short flashbacks (like it was done in The Gunslinger).

The only comfort I can offer is that, first, it will end some day... and then, there will be some redeeming features, mainly closer to the end of the "section". And, of course, when it is finally ended and the real story comes back, that's big-time bliss!

Jean, you are absolutely right. That's exactly how I feel! I am so glad someone else feels the same way. I was perfectly fine with the short flashbacks in The Gunslinger but a 300 page flashback about riding ponies and witches sticking their finger where it doesn't belong? I don't think so.

I can't wait until it gets back to the real story. I don't know how much more of this that I can take. I keep saying to myself, This is not The Dark Tower! The question is, will it get back to the real story and not this useless flashback?

[Tony_A]

My experience is similar to Razz's. At the time of the first reading, I was thinking "okay, so Roland fell in love and he and his original ka-tet had to go through a lot" but the whole section felt like I was swimming uphill in snot. Once I read the rest of the story, I understood why it was necessary for me to know everything that happened. On the re-read, I savored every word of the Susan arc.

Trust me, once you get through it and read volumes V-VII, you'll understand why the entire arc was necessary.

[Jean]

Trust me, once you get through it and read volumes V-VII, you'll understand why the entire arc was necessary.
hmmm
I still didn't. I might if the arc was, say, 15 degrees instead of 270.

but, Ricky - patience my friend! Soon you will be comforted. Yes, it will get back to the real story, even within this very volume. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Brainslinger]

[quote=Jean;215604]
I can't wait until it gets back to the real story. I don't know how much more of this that I can take. I keep saying to myself, This is not The Dark Tower! The question is, will it get back to the real story and not this useless flashback?

Minor spoiler (don't worry it won't affect the plot it's just an answer to your question above)
To be fair the 'flashback' does take up most of the book. (So much so I wouldn't really class it as a flashback, as 'flash' in my mind makes me think of snippets.) But yes, you do get some present day stuff later. You really do need to read the backstory though as it ties to the end part.

That being said, I liked it overall, although I wasn't all that keen on the romantic stuff. Stick at it though, there is some great stuff to come. (In my opinion, anyway, it's all so subjective isn't it?)

[Ricky]

but, Ricky - patience my friend! Soon you will be comforted. Yes, it will get back to the real story, even within this very volume.

Jean, you don't understand (actually, you do)! I don't know how much more I can read without going braindead. I keep zoning out and having to read passages over again.

Well...this is going to take me awhile. :yawn:

[Jean]

Patience. If I could do that, you can. I promise a few quite good Easter eggs once you are past the Equator line.

[Ricky]

I'm going to hold you to that promise, Jean. :lol:

[Woofer]

I second everything Jean said. He and I are of one mind on W&G. I, too, was of the original readership who "waited all those years" for... this?! Kitty said what?

Good luck!

[Darkthoughts]

I loved it on my initial read, but have struggled with it on rereads.

Its very Mills and Boon-ish at times - although, seeing this side of Roland was what made me love it so much first time round.

[Matt]

I love the book for the sole reason that it stands outside what happens later.

It seems "true" if that makes sense. Sure, it drags but I love it for what it represents in the same way I loved the sidebars in DTI concerning Roland's rise to manhood.

[jayson]

I loved and still love it because it is about Roland. That's all it ever needed to be to keep my interest.

[Letti]

Keep reading. I have met some fellas all around who weren't satisfied and could hardly read this book at the begining but got to like it at the end.
For me it's a marvellous book. I hope you can find some good in it.

[Ricky]

I'm sure there's good parts in it (the first part was excellent). It's just that this section is unbelieveably slow and uninteresting (IMO).

[The Lady of Shadows]

jean and woofer -- you're both killing me here. just killing me. :lol: :rofl:

now that i can breath again:

ricky just hang in there. the first time i read this book, it was high on my list of favorites (not just DT favorites, but all time favorites). this reread, however, changed all that. as i have said in numerous threads, ad nauseum.

you must read it though. so much happens in this book that will be pivotal to later books. so much will make sense later, and will make sense in the future, (if you see the difference i'm trying to make) once this book is past. just think of it as a very, very, very, very, very, very, very long blaine ride. :cyclops:

[Ricky]

just think of it as a very, very, very, very, very, very, very long blaine ride. :cyclops:

But I alrready went through the Blaine ride! I don't want to go on another!!! :arg:

[JQ The Gunslinger]

I loved this book. It was something new in the series. And there is some good stuff that will happen. Trust me stick it out.

[Ricky]

Well, I managed to read 20 more pages of it the other day. Urgh.

When does it end? :annoyed:

[Letti]

Ricky, you might have had too big expectations. Hey, it's about Roland's past, does this fact make it any better?
For me everything about Roland and his life is interesting (for me at least). Even the way he goes to the toilet or the way he rolls his cigarette.
I can understand if someone doesn't get hooked on this book (we all are different) but don't forget it's your Roland, the gunslinger you really care about so whatever he does... it can't be so damn boring.

[Ricky]

Ricky, you might have had too big expectations. Hey, it's about Roland's past, does this fact make it any better?

I can understand if someone doesn't get hooked on this book (we all are different) but don't forget it's your Roland, the gunslinger you really care about so whatever he does... it can't be so damn boring.

I don't think I had too big expectations. I was liking it just fine until we go into this ginormous flashback. I'm really not one for flashbacks that far back. I just feel like there is so much to explain in the present situation...why go into the past?

Once he starts to get into the Tower and connect with some things that we've established already, it'll get better. Right now it just feels like a whole different series.

[Letti]

Don't you see the old killing gunslinger in that young boy?
Isn't it interesting to get a window where you can get some answers why he is how he is?
I wouldn't like to be pushy let me know if I should stop. :)

[Ricky]

Isn't it interesting to get a window where you can get some answers why he is how he is?

I'd like to go through that window, yes. Right now, that window is locked and I'm waiting for something interesting to come along and unlock it.

[Jean]

tell me where you are, I'll tell you how much longer you have to suffer and when anything interesting will happen

Nikolett: ok, we learned that before the real story started Roland wasn't anything special. Good. How long did it have to take that point to be proved? He was one thousand times as much interesting in the Unrevised flashbacks, and they (especially Hax hanging) told me so much more about Roland than this bland, endless story where he doesn't even do anything but standing there with a thumb up his ass.

[Ricky]

I am around page 200 at the part where Roland met Susan at Thorin's "for the first time".



He was one thousand times as much interesting in the Unrevised flashbacks, and they (especially Hax hanging) told me so much more about Roland than this bland, endless story where he doesn't even do anything but standing there with a thumb up his ass.

Exactly, Jean!! Nothing interesting is happening! They might as well throw in another 300 page flashback of Roland's first words or first steps. After that, we can learn what Roland ate for breakfast. Then, we can learn what Roland's favorite board game was.

[Letti]

They might as well throw in another 300 page flashback of Roland's first words or first steps. After that, we can learn what Roland ate for breakfast. Then, we can learn what Roland's favorite board game was.

If only...

[Jean]

I am around page 200 at the part where Roland met Susan at Thorin's "for the first time".

good news: it won't get any worse. In fact, it will get better (with occasional relapses... sometimes rather long ones)

wonderful news: go on reading, and you'll immediately come across one of the best scenes ever written! (yes, in this very book! surprise surprise!)

bad news: there'll be not too many such scenes there... (but I guarantee at least one more; to my personal taste, about half a dozen pretty decent pieces)

[Ricky]

good news: it won't get any worse. In fact, it will get better (with occasional relapses... sometimes rather long ones)

wonderful news: go on reading, and you'll immediately come across one of the best scenes ever written! (yes, in this very book! surprise surprise!)

bad news: there'll be not too many such scenes there... (but I guarantee at least one more; to my personal taste, about half a dozen pretty decent pieces)

You have re-established my hope, Jean! One of the best scenes? In this very book? Woo! I suppose that I'll pick it up again tonight and read some more.

Please tell me that DTV,VI, and VII aren't flashbacks. :scared:

[Jean]

volumes 5 through 7, even starting with the last few dozen pages of volume 4, are the real story!

[Ricky]

No way! Best news I've heard in a long time!!!! :excited:

[Brainslinger]

For me everything about Roland and his life is interesting (for me at least). Even the way he goes to the toilet

:scared:

Letti! I didn't think you were that kind of girl! You look so innocent in your pictures...

(I know what you mean. I'm just kidding.... As long as he doesn't use the Mid-World stinging nettles to wipe himself. That's the main thing.)

Ricky: Yeah, things definitely get more interesting. Actually I thought the Rhea part was quite interesting (although they could have done without the, erm, 'rubbing' bit, but I guess that just shows what a disgusting creature she is. Rhea, not Susan.)

[Letti]

For me everything about Roland and his life is interesting (for me at least). Even the way he goes to the toilet

:scared:

Letti! I didn't think you were that kind of girl! You look so innocent in your pictures...

We all have to show what's under the mask one day you know... ;)

[JQ The Gunslinger]

Book 5-7 are all flashbacks of the other books but with different titles. Lol nah jk

[Ricky]

I managed to read another 30 pages tonight. Suprisingly, now that we're out of the Mayor's place, it's starting to get alot better. I ended at the part where Roland, Alain, and Cuthbert are going back from their bar "fight".

I think the next part is called The Drop or In The Drop. Either way, it sounds promising. :)

[Matt]

The stand off at the bar is the scene Jean was talking about I believe, and I agree.

One of the best written in the series.

[Ricky]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that part. I think it's going to start getting better. I've come to realize that it's not Roland's past that I hate in this book...it's Thorin, Coral, and Aunt Cord. I severely dislike the three of them. They need to go. :shoot:

[Letti]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that part. I think it's going to start getting better. I've come to realize that it's not Roland's past that I hate in this book...it's Thorin, Coral, and Aunt Cord. I severely dislike the three of them. They need to go. :shoot:

But all the books have villians and negative characters, don't they?

[Ricky]

I'd assume so. I just really don't like the above three characters.

[Letti]

And as the story is going on you will dislike them even more. ;)

[Ricky]

Thanks Letti. You have given me a wealth of hope. :waves fist:

[Letti]

Anytime. :D

[The Lady of Shadows]

ricky, jean, and letti -

listening to you three is making this entire thread worthwhile.

::wipes tears of mirth::

[Ricky]

Well turtlesong, I'm glad your getting a big 'ole laugh out of my pain of continuing this horrid flashback.

I'd rather watch paint dry...at least it does something.

[Ricky]

Yahoo!! I finished Part II today!! :excited:

Now that I think about it and go over it in my mind, it really wan't that bad of a section. The characters and new plot just needed some getting used to (although I'm longing to get back to the present situation).

[The Lady of Shadows]

see. that wasn't as bad as, say, having somone throw you in a pit of used needles. now was it? :wtf:

[Ricky]

:thumbsup:
having somone throw you in a pit of used needles. now was it? :wtf:

Is that a Saw II reference?

[The Lady of Shadows]

:thumbsup:
having somone throw you in a pit of used needles. now was it? :wtf:

Is that a Saw II reference?

is that seriously a question? :wtf:

[Ricky]

is that seriously a question? :wtf:

It seriously is a question. Does the question pose a sense of unseriousness so that you are unable to be serious about the serious nature of my question regarding seriousness?

[Jean]

ok, seems like it's time for merging it!

::merging theme::

[The Lady of Shadows]

is that seriously a question? :wtf:

It seriously is a question. Does the question pose a sense of unseriousness so that you are unable to be serious about the serious nature of my question regarding seriousness?

yes it posed a sense of unseriousness so that i was unable to be serious about the seriousness of the seriousness of the serious nature of the seriousness or lack thereof. shawnee smith got tossed into the freaking pit of used needles for cripes sake. of course it was a saw2 quote. :P


ok, seems like it's time for merging it!

::merging theme::

wait. what? :unsure:


ETA: never mind jean, i get it now. ::slow::

[Ricky]

yes it posed a sense of unseriousness so that i was unable to be serious about the seriousness of the seriousness of the serious nature of the seriousness or lack thereof. shawnee smith got tossed into the freaking pit of used needles for cripes sake. of course it was a saw2 quote. :P



Turtlesong, you're my new hero! Anyone who can reference Saw is my best friend. Congratulations on winning the position!

Does that mean you're a Saw fanatic too? :ninja:

[Letti]

I hope you know Ricky that we do have a Saw thread and I have opened it. ;)

[Ricky]

Of course I know that. I was just responding to turtle's post. Don't throw me in prision...it was just one off-topic post!! :cry:

[Letti]

Hey, I just wanted you to put me on your best friend list. :huglove:

[Ricky]

If you're a Saw fan, you've just made it! :couple:

[mae]

I'm glad someone else was having serious trouble with the lengthy flashback, Ricky. And you're right, it's not Roland, it's most of the denizens of Mejis that were boring. That's not the right word, though; they were uninteresting, and what was happening to them was uninteresting. The writing was superb as ever, of course, and there were some very awesome scenes (like the aforementioned bar standoff), but it felt needlessly overlong. After finishing the volume, I appreciated it more than during the time I was reading it, but it still feels odd. I'm now well past the middle of the next book, and Callahan's flashbacks are treated much better, although this book also suffers from Mejis-itis in that you don't really care about the uninteresting day-to-day life of the Calla.

[Ricky]

I finished Wizard and Glass a couple days ago! :excited:

Looking back on it, it wasn't that bad. I wouldn't mind re-reading it in the future. I now understand that the large flashback was a crucial part of the story but the majority of it was anti-climatic (notice I said majority--not all). I still would have liked the last section, All God's Chilluns' Got Shoes to have been longer than it actually was. I want a reward for getting through the middle sections! :lol:

I'm looking forward to start Wolves of the Calla soon.

[BeDaN]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

[Letti]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

Which characters were boring for you?

[KaLikeAWheel]

Pablo,

I'm a King fan first, as well, but I read the DT books as they were released. I, too, found WaG jarring, simply because of the way The Waste Lands ended and the 6 year wait for WaG. I expected to get some more current story, but instead got the extended flashback. The first time I read it, I was kinda miffed, but once I got through the whole series, I came to appreciate WaG.

Donna

[BeDaN]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

Which characters were boring for you?

Mainly Susan and everything she was a part of outside of her interactions with Roland. Her struggle with her Aunt and the Meiji's heirarchy (sp) over her commitment just bored me. Maybe after I read it again I will have a new found love for it but during the first read I just kept saying to myself, "When will something interesting happen?"

[Brainslinger]

Pablo,

I'm a King fan first, as well, but I read the DT books as they were released. I, too, found WaG jarring, simply because of the way The Waste Lands ended and the 6 year wait for WaG. I expected to get some more current story, but instead got the extended flashback. The first time I read it, I was kinda miffed, but once I got through the whole series, I came to appreciate WaG.

Donna


There appears to be a bug which dissallows the spoiler being shown if you include a color tag on the same line. If you want to leave it in, add a carriage return and people will be able to see it ok (albeit with more space):




of the way The Waste Lands ended and the 6 year wait for WaG. I expected to get some more current story, but instead got the extended flashback.

[Pere Callahan]

This thread just goes to show how varied the opinions are on all of these books, epecially Wizard and Glass. This one is by far my favorite, because it both humanizes Roland and shows what he will sacrifice to reach the Tower. I have known many who thought its pace was too slow, but I loved it and always look forward to picking it up again.

[jakjak]

My least favorite of the series. I was soooo disappointed that the Marvel Dark Tower Series pretty much started with WaG. Very slow.

[jakjak]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

I'm re-reading the series too. I'm thinking of only reading the beginning and end and skipping the flashback altogether. It was just boring to me.

[Jean]

Why not indeed? That's what I am definitely going to do on my next reread.

[Savoury]

To give some counterweight, I so loved this book. I liked every part of the flashback story and for me it made Roland come to life. The smalltown happenings gave me a good idea of everyday life in Roland's world then. I loved the buildup to the end and the inevitable climax. I :wub: W&G

[Letti]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

I'm re-reading the series too. I'm thinking of only reading the beginning and end and skipping the flashback altogether. It was just boring to me.

*faints*

[ManOfWesternesse]

To give some counterweight, I so loved this book. I liked every part of the flashback story and for me it made Roland come to life. The smalltown happenings gave me a good idea of everyday life in Roland's world then....

Agreed. Love this book - it's an essential part of the whole for me.
Also your 'smalltown..' comment - someone above included the Calla folken & their little lives in 'boring' association with W&G, and I couldn't agree less. Even that simple opening of Tian busting his ass (and his plough-pulling sisters) trying to till the untillable, was brilliant. Or the attitude of the small-minded storekeeper, Took. I love the little details. Same for W&G and the ordinary folk of Mejis.

[Fitz]

Wizard and glass was easily my favourite. I loved the story and the insight it gave. During the first three books I always wanted toknow more about Roland's past and the consistantly mentioned Cuthbert and Alain. When I began to read Wizard and Glass I was so happy to see it would be nearly all flashback. The good thing about W&G was the way we got to see the shaping of Roland and his origins both as a young gunslinger as well as his early shapings into the man he'd become.

[Fitz]

Gotta agree on this one, I really struggled to get through it but I knew I had too. I'll be re-reading the series after I'm finished with the 3 books I have lined up already and I'm dreading W&G. Looking back it was very detrimental to the story but I also felt like most of the characters were just not interesting.

I'm re-reading the series too. I'm thinking of only reading the beginning and end and skipping the flashback altogether. It was just boring to me.

*faints*

*Faints in the Mejis dust beside Letti*

[flaggwalkstheline]

I must say that in the context of the series wizard n glass is my least favorite
BUT like all the other books its still amazing, sai king writes far better that anyone else in the very wide range of the "fantasy/ horror/ sci fi" genres writing within the last 50 years (except tolkien of course)

[obscurejude]

Tolkien didn't write anything in the last 50 years. :orely:

[flaggwalkstheline]

children of hurin and the silmarillian were published posthumously, plus the return of the king was published roughly 50 years ago give or take 5 years

[mae]

Wizard and glass was easily my favourite. I loved the story and the insight it gave. During the first three books I always wanted toknow more about Roland's past and the consistantly mentioned Cuthbert and Alain. When I began to read Wizard and Glass I was so happy to see it would be nearly all flashback. The good thing about W&G was the way we got to see the shaping of Roland and his origins both as a young gunslinger as well as his early shapings into the man he'd become.

To me the flashback had the exactly opposite effect, as we'd discussed. To be perfectly frank, I didn't care about Roland's past at all. I cared about his quest, getting to the Tower, and his new ka-tet of Eddie, Susannah, and Jake. Essentially pausing the quest for two books made these books (DT4-5) the worst of the series for me. Not that they're bad books in and of themselves. Just about average.

[obscurejude]

children of hurin and the silmarillian were published posthumously, plus the return of the king was published roughly 50 years ago give or take 5 years

Right, which means he was dead when they were published.

[Fitz]

To me the flashback had the exactly opposite effect, as we'd discussed. To be perfectly frank, I didn't care about Roland's past at all. I cared about his quest, getting to the Tower, and his new ka-tet of Eddie, Susannah, and Jake. Essentially pausing the quest for two books made these books (DT4-5) the worst of the series for me. Not that they're bad books in and of themselves. Just about average.


Fair enough mate. Personally though I think it was important, as it provided the insight into the character, laying down ground roots, building and layering Roland as the complex character he is.

[Matt of Gilead]

I must say that in the context of the series wizard n glass is my least favorite
BUT like all the other books its still amazing, sai king writes far better that anyone else in the very wide range of the "fantasy/ horror/ sci fi" genres writing within the last 50 years (except tolkien of course)

Actually, Tolkien was a pretty bad writer, and I say that as one who loves LOTR as much as any nerd. What we have is a fantastic epic story, but a mediocre storyteller.

DT trumps LOTR in virtually all respects. Here we have an epic story, told by a master storyteller.

As far as W&G, I'm not sure where I'd place it, but it's in the better half of the series for me. I will agree, though, that the beginning of the "flashback" is abominably slow.

[jayson]

DT trumps LOTR in virtually all respects.

Except internal consistency. Tolkien never changed Frodo's age within the same work as King does with Eddie in The Drawing of the Three. There are myriad other examples, but the point is that Tolkien used an outline.

[Matt of Gilead]

DT trumps LOTR in virtually all respects.

Except internal consistency. Tolkien never changed Frodo's age within the same work as King does with Eddie in The Drawing of the Three. There are myriad other examples, but the point is that Tolkien used an outline.

Fair enough, I agree with that.

[nearlyprescient]

I don't even mind the slowness per se. One of my favorite novels of King's is Insomnia. This just feels like a different novel all of a sudden. But I like the writing, the language.

I actually started King with the Dark Tower, but spaced out the first two before putting the series on major hold.
when I saw a used copy of Insomnia for cheap, I picked it up, along with a new copy of The Waste Lands, in case I found King's non-Dark Tower specific work to be lackluster.
I was pretty surprised when I noticed Dark Tower references left and right in Insomnia, and I think that helped me get pretty excited for The Waste Lands.
I've been reading straight through the Dark Tower series the past week or so, and am currently finishing the final installment.
I didn't really slow down during Wizard & Glass. It was a long piece and mostly flashback, but I found the Kansas parts were the ones that dragged for me.
It was pretty clear that the flashbacks would be in the form of a Western, although with large pieces of fantasy elements. For me, reading a Western can never be done slowly since I find myself always heading for the next shoot-out and waiting for the final confrontation in the shoebox canyon.
With Wizard & Glass, there was the inherent foreshadowing of the flashback segments which I think helped me read through it at a fast and consistent pace.

[Crow]

Yeah, I really enjoyed that part. I think it's going to start getting better. I've come to realize that it's not Roland's past that I hate in this book...it's Thorin, Coral, and Aunt Cord. I severely dislike the three of them. They need to go. :shoot:

Me too, not least of all because I've known (in passing, and indirectly) someone who was fairly similar to Thorin in real life. *shudder*

It's beyond me how anyone could find this backstory boring or distracting. I think it gives Roland's world and story so much more life.

[JameseyLefebure]

I know that I'm really just repeating what everyone else is saying here, but I really find W&G a struggle to get through! I love the begining and the end of the book with Roland and his current Ka-Tet, but the whole flashback is a real chore for me.
I'm currently re-reading the series and since I picked up The Gunslinger I've been dreading coming to W&G cause I know it always takes me AGES to finish. I've only got about 150 or so pages left then I'm onto Wolves Of Calla which I'm really excited to read as I've only read it once (i've read 1-4 about 3 or 4 times as I had to wait for 5,6,7 to be released!)
I can't actually put my finger on what i dislike about this one but it's the only book in the series that I struggle with :(

Jamesey
xxx

[Jean]

I know that I'm really just repeating what everyone else is saying here, but I really find W&G a struggle to get through! I love the begining and the end of the book with Roland and his current Ka-Tet, but the whole flashback is a real chore for me.
No, not everyone, but some people, and definitely bears.

[JameseyLefebure]

I know that I'm really just repeating what everyone else is saying here, but I really find W&G a struggle to get through! I love the begining and the end of the book with Roland and his current Ka-Tet, but the whole flashback is a real chore for me.
No, not everyone, but some people, and definitely bears.

Well it's nice to know bear's agree with me :) sorry to be a total noobie about the whole thing - are you a bear as in Grrrr bear or bear as in sexy hairy bear?

Jamesey
xxx

[Brice]

I'm guessing the answer might end up being both. :lol:

[overhoser]

The first time I read the books, W&G was my favorite. But now, one my second time through, it has fallen pretty far down the list. I couldn't get enough of it the first time, but couldn't wait for it to end this time. I just felt the love story was cliched and too lengthy. It could have very easily been done through a couple of short flashbacks. I do still really enjoy the portion of the story that deals with Cuthbert and Alain and the grapefruit and intrigue, though.

[Jean]

Well it's nice to know bear's agree with me :) sorry to be a total noobie about the whole thing - are you a bear as in Grrrr bear or bear as in sexy hairy bear?



I'm guessing the answer might end up being both. :lol:

well, right... a bear is a bear is a bear...


<...>I just felt the love story was cliched and too lengthy. It could have very easily been done through a couple of short flashbacks. <...> Absolutely. We learned infinitely more about Roland's history from those concentrated, really insightful and right-to-the-point flashbacks in The Gunslinger (original).

[JameseyLefebure]

Well it's nice to know bear's agree with me :) sorry to be a total noobie about the whole thing - are you a bear as in Grrrr bear or bear as in sexy hairy bear?



I'm guessing the answer might end up being both. :lol:

well, right... a bear is a bear is a bear...


<...>I just felt the love story was cliched and too lengthy. It could have very easily been done through a couple of short flashbacks. <...> Absolutely. We learned infinitely more about Roland's history from those concentrated, really insightful and right-to-the-point flashbacks in The Gunslinger (original).

:excited: indeed :) well at least I kinda know now Mister Bear :) i've just finished W+G today - i enjoyed the end of it much more than I thought I would, but I do feel that it as a little on the long side with the flashback, but I love the bit with Roland and the gang at the end :)

I'm going to go and start Wolves of Calla :)

[Jean]

the end was good, especially the battle - I mean the end of the Mejis part, because the end of the book itself was more than book, it was definitely great! Hope you will love Wolves, it's bears' favorite volume.

[JameseyLefebure]

the end was good, especially the battle - I mean the end of the Mejis part, because the end of the book itself was more than book, it was definitely great! Hope you will love Wolves, it's bears' favorite volume.

I've read Wolves before and really enjoyed it - i've just completely forgotten what happens so it will be like reading it for the first time!! :) i'm very excited about the whole thing!! I've actually read all the books before except 7 - i couldn't ever bring myself to finish the series first time round (i know - weird!) but this time i'm going to do it!!

Jamesey
xxxx

[Jean]

do it! do it!!! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/awake.gif

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

:nope:Boooooo W & G haters.

[JameseyLefebure]

:nope:Boooooo W & G haters.

Oh no - i don't hate it! I just don't enjoy it as much as the rest of the series :) It was alright this read round, i always just find that I read it much slower than the other's and don't get as into the story. But i don't hate it :)

Jamesey
x

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

:)

[Letti]

the end was good, especially the battle - I mean the end of the Mejis part, because the end of the book itself was more than book, it was definitely great! Hope you will love Wolves, it's bears' favorite volume.

I've read Wolves before and really enjoyed it - i've just completely forgotten what happens so it will be like reading it for the first time!! :) i'm very excited about the whole thing!! I've actually read all the books before except 7 - i couldn't ever bring myself to finish the series first time round (i know - weird!) but this time i'm going to do it!!

Jamesey
xxxx

It's really good to have you here but please be very careful with the spoilers.


:nope:Boooooo W & G haters.

The more they hate it the more we love it. ;)

[Brice]

precisely! :)

[Myste]

I have to say that I love W&G more and more every time I read it (Didn't like it so much when I first read it...). Actually it's a gem!

[Mark]

I also find the W & G flashback a bore to read, if I do a re-read and I want that story, I read The Gunslinger Born comics, then just carry on from there. I like the tet's story in W & G, but it's drowned out by all the flashback stuff.

[mowque]

Reverse for me. Hate everything else King has ever written. love Dark Tower.

Although i did skip the flashback the first time I read the series. That was a mistake.

[Meattruck138]

The WIzard of Oz stuff drove me nuts, definately love all the other books, but WAG will gather dust on my shelf for a while

[tipp-ed off]

WaG became my favorite in the series after the first time I listened to Frank Muller's reading. Prefect momentum and excitement, great voice work with Eddie, Blaine, Sheemie, Eldred Jonas and Rhea of Coos. It actually made me appreciate Rolands back story more and I might of dropped a tear or two for Susan. The Wizard of Oz stuff seemed a little tacked on but didnt take away anything from the story.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i've been reading this, & also reading these comments, & i have to agree, the book starts off strong with the continuation from "The Waste Lands"

& it slows down, so far i'm only where "Susan" is 1st going to meet "Rea" the coo" i think is name is? & they are talking buisness. so it's so far going slow. but as you can see i'm not that far into the flashback yet. just at the start of it.

[Josh]

I'm just finishing up The Wastelands and this post showed up today. I was already concerned with what I heard about the next book and this thread makes me worry. I'm also a slow reader but have read the first three books really quickly, for me anyway.

I just hope this book doesn't get me off track.

[bettinas.ashes]

The first time I read WaG I didn't enjoy it much, simply because I was all too eager to hear more about the quest for the Dark Tower.
Second time around I enjoyed it heaps more. Still eagerly anticipating what will happen next, but with a much better understanding of why that part needed to be there.

I thought it interesting to see how life had been in Roland's youth, as well as understanding more of the past, that made him the cold blooded killer he came to be later on.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

yes i just started this last week. & i also read the various comments about it. & i've really just come to the conclusion that some people like it & some don't. but it is nice to know why people didn't like it & why they also did like it or love it. but i am giving it a chance though. i'd love to skip it

at least at the moment cause nothing's really happening yet. but that's cause as someone here already posted i want to know where the Ka-Tet is going to go next! so it's strange to read about "Roland's" past. but i can't know where they are going next until i read this book. so what are you going to do ya know? :) he he

[Roland of Gilead 33]

Josh have you started "Wizard & Glass" yet? i'm going at a decent pace so far anyways. since this really isn't really a spoiler i can say it. Susan hasn't met Roland yet. but she did leave "Rhea's" little hut. if you are reading that part man, don't read it while eating it's just gross. & ONLY "SK" would write something like that.

anyways i hope to actually finish this book this time. that's my hope anyways

[Jean]

don't worry about W&G spoilers in W&G forum; you only have to mark spoilers for later DT books

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Roland of Gilead 33]

oh ok good, i wasn't sure about that. as for the later books not counting the last one which of course will have to be marked as a spoiler well certain parts anyways, what's the 1st book that i really need to start worrying if i post any spoilers? i mean not on purpose of course.

anyways i read more, & i've got the Plume Trade Paperback edition that's pink & has the Glass with the castle inside it version. cool cover though
though i don't much care for the artwork for "Wizard & Glass" i prefer how the rest of the series pictures are to be honest. anyways i'm up to where "Roland" is just walking with "Susan" their 1st meeting in short. & it's actually pretty slow page 152 so far.

& one more question & i really didn't know what section to ask this in to be honest. where in the hell do find a "DT" avatar for free? i'd love to post one on here. but i don't really see any online. i'd be much grateful. thanx you.

[Seneschal]

The first time I read WaG I didn't enjoy it much, simply because I was all too eager to hear more about the quest for the Dark Tower.


when i got to W&G my first time around, i was not happy at all to see that the flashback seemed to last nearly the entire book (i thumbed ahead after reading about 10 pages to see how long i had to put up with it). after about 50 pages or so later, i was completely hooked into the story, and the book became one of my favorites of the whole series.

from what i can tell, people either love this book or place it on the "bottom rung" of the series.



I thought it interesting to see how life had been in Roland's youth, as well as understanding more of the past, that made him the cold blooded killer he came to be later on.
[/quote]

i think this was exactly why King wrote that story right smack in the middle of the series. I think that he woke up one day and realized he had a character that was supposedly a hero, but generally was not likeable because no one could connect with him on any level of understanding. W&G gave us more insight into Roland, which was critical in moving forward with the series. While the story does not excuse Roland's cold nature, it does offer some reasoning beyond "this is what he was trained to be". Whereas before W&G, it was easy to hold Roland a little further away--a sort of mental "keeping your distance"--this book allows us to be more open to him. Personally, after i read it i started to feel a lot like the others in the ka-tet: "Man, i love this guy, but i wonder if he will sell me out for his damn Tower?" Essentially, it forces us to become emotionally involved with him.

[Jean]

...i started to feel a lot like the others in the ka-tet: "Man, i love this guy, but i wonder if he will sell me out for his damn Tower?" Essentially, it forces us to become emotionally involved with him. This is very true and very well put. Personally, though, I feel that my feelings would have evolved this same way without the addition of W&G: King put enough of stronger, better, cleaner cut, more convincing stuff all around the first three volumes.

[Seneschal]

...i started to feel a lot like the others in the ka-tet: "Man, i love this guy, but i wonder if he will sell me out for his damn Tower?" Essentially, it forces us to become emotionally involved with him. This is very true and very well put. Personally, though, I feel that my feelings would have evolved this same way without the addition of W&G: King put enough of stronger, better, cleaner cut, more convincing stuff all around the first three volumes.

I can see what you are saying for sure, but i suppose it is a more personal matter when it comes to the characters themselves. For me, I needed the understanding of his nature before I could stop observing his quest and start emotionally participating in it. again, I'm quite sure these differences are personal and specific to each reader. The amazing part is that the author eventually ends up connecting with pretty much everyone in his audience, and i suppose this is why he is so successful in his craft.

[RainInSpain]

Agree with Jean. WaG is good in terms of giving the (anti)hero's backstory, and it does make him closer to the reader.
But, DoTT and TWL have enough 'moments' in them to show that Roland is not just a cold-blooded a monster. (The Gunslinger, too, but they are not as obvious there.) You know what specific part of TDT apart from deaths and Coda, had me in tears? When in The Waste Lands, after having been told to do so by Jake in his dream, Eddie hands Roland the unfinished key to silence the voices in his head. That description of how Roland listens to himself and then screams "Gone! The voices are gone!" made my heart ache.

[Jean]

yes... actually, TWL is full of such moments... So is TDotT...

[Seneschal]

a little derailing of the conversation, but the part that got me all welled up the most in the series was
Oy dying. "Olan..."

[Roland of Gilead 33]

for me the 1st book he does seem like a robot somewhat. & he opens up a little bit when Jake eventually does come into the book. but part of that i think was cause it had been eons since he had traveled with ANYBODY! & he was used to being alone. & by opening up i meant emotionally.

it made him more human. & not just someone who kills an entire Town! but i also think that he than became more of a lovable character slowly but surely anyways, when in "The Drawing of the Three" him & Eddie & "Suze" are finally together & had gone through all they did. plus it's kinda nice that "SK" had both "Roland" & "Eddie" both sick in that book & both slowly getting better. though i wish they "SK" had "Roland" Keep his fingers though. that part i never did like. or understand why he had that happen to "Roland" but oh well ya know?

my guess is that the reason he FINALLY told "Jake & The rest" his story of the love of his life "Susan" & kinda explains why he is the way he is.
my guess is that he had gone through a LOT of emotions with Jake his son in a way. being kidnapped by "Gasher" & even though 'SK" never wrote in that Roland had these emotions, i'm not saying he wrote him like a robot by than no.

but he wrote him as a guy who was able to keep his emotions in check. & through all that & with Putting up with "Blaine" the mono plus all the crap they went through before that. i think he had to open up about his past or else it would have driven him insane again. plus by than i think that he knew quite a bit about each of his "ka-tet" that he felt comfortable enough around them to tell them his life story. & he pretty much said you

can judge me all you want afterwords but this is what happend & i'm this way because of it. i've had a heavy burden to live with for all these years.
& you can judge me by it, or accept me of who i am, just like i accept you as who you are. but i'm not going to force you into deciding which one to choose.

at least that's what i took from it. well something along the lines of that anyways. he though didn't put it that way but as he told 'Susan" when he 1st met her. i'm not much of a talker. in short he was telling them he's had it pretty rough as well & they weren't the only ones who has had it rough. at least this is how i view it. does anyone agree or disagree?

[bettinas.ashes]

The first time I read WaG I didn't enjoy it much, simply because I was all too eager to hear more about the quest for the Dark Tower.


when i got to W&G my first time around, i was not happy at all to see that the flashback seemed to last nearly the entire book (i thumbed ahead after reading about 10 pages to see how long i had to put up with it). after about 50 pages or so later, i was completely hooked into the story, and the book became one of my favorites of the whole series.

from what i can tell, people either love this book or place it on the "bottom rung" of the series.



I thought it interesting to see how life had been in Roland's youth, as well as understanding more of the past, that made him the cold blooded killer he came to be later on.



i think this was exactly why King wrote that story right smack in the middle of the series. I think that he woke up one day and realized he had a character that was supposedly a hero, but generally was not likeable because no one could connect with him on any level of understanding. W&G gave us more insight into Roland, which was critical in moving forward with the series. While the story does not excuse Roland's cold nature, it does offer some reasoning beyond "this is what he was trained to be". Whereas before W&G, it was easy to hold Roland a little further away--a sort of mental "keeping your distance"--this book allows us to be more open to him. Personally, after i read it i started to feel a lot like the others in the ka-tet: "Man, i love this guy, but i wonder if he will sell me out for his damn Tower?" Essentially, it forces us to become emotionally involved with him.

I think it's interesting that WaG seems to make people so divided. Either they love it or they hate it, there isn't many who's just sort of in between.

Like you, WaG was really what made me feel more involved with Roland, more so than the previous books in the series made me.
I cared about his quest, I cared about Eddie, Susannah and Jake, but I didn't quite feel the same kind of connection with Roland, and I think in large parts that was because I couldn't quite get past looking at him a bit like a machine.
To be sure, he did change somewhat in the first three books, and I think once he saved Jake from Gasher that made a big difference in the way I saw him, but I still did need the background story.

But I guess we all have different needs. Jean, you don't seem to like WaG much at all. Is it just because you felt the long background story wasn't necessary or do you have other reasons?


a little derailing of the conversation, but the part that got me all welled up the most in the series was
Oy dying. "Olan..."

Oh yes, me too! There was many moments, but that one for sure really got to me.



Off topic, I really need some more practice with this quoting stuff, doesn't look quite right to me.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i think when "Eddie & Suze" met up with him he was still a robot. but once Jake came back to him, even though i know he cared for "Suze" & "Eddie"

i think when he was able to see "Jake" again & basically forgive himself in time anyways, for dropping him when he 1st met him. he grew into a more character. anyways i'm on "Chapter 5: Welcome To Town" where the boys go to the mayor's house to meet him for the 1st time.

[Jean]

Off topic, I really need some more practice with this quoting stuff, doesn't look quite right to me. at the moment, all your quotes look perfectly right to bears

[Roland of Gilead 33]

quoting somebody isn't really something i'm good at either to be honest. anyways, now i'm at the mayor's party. is it just me or is this over-long ?

i understand that the boys need to meet the town & get a feel on if they can trust anyone & all that. plus Roland gets to see his girl all dolled up.

but i think it's overlong to be honest. their 1st meeting while slow, did serve more of a purpose since this one is basically a love story to be honest.

[Brainslinger]

Stick with it. The book gets more exciting later on.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i am, i've so far read 247 pages of it. where "Roland & Susan" meet for the 3rd time. i did LOVE the guys getting the fix or however ya want to call it? on the big coffin hunters though.

it's also made me wonder if his original Ka-Tet had lived. what the story would be like compared to what it ended up being. i would have loved it if Cuthbert & Alain would have been around when "Eddie,Susannah & Jake" came around. but i also realize that the intention of Roland is that he's

the last gunslinger & all that. in short the man with no name since it was based of that series of films.


it also would have been interesting if Susan was with him as well later on. but again that i know & realize wasn't the intention of the idea of "Roland" it just would have been cool if "SK" hadn't killed off his original Ka-Tet that's all.

anyways, it's hehe takes one awhile to get used to all the lingo that is from "Roland's" world well his past anyways. Josh have you started "Wizard & Glass" yet?

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i've read more since i last posted here! :) i'm not on Chapter 9. on Part 2. they just visited the thinny. those things are really weird my guess, if they end up showing this showing it in the up coming film or mini-series? is make it look like a mirage maybe? CGI is my best guess.

[Brainslinger]

I imagine thinnies to looking something like the puddle type mirages you can see on roads when travelling by car. Except much bigger and with a lot of mist.And glowey of course.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

it's actually kinda hard to imangine what to imangine to be honest. but i did think of 'The Mist" when the boys were looking straight at it

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i'm now on page 335. the well the interlude. so it's been a pretty fast read now for me. it started out fast than when it got to the flashback it was slow for awhile. now it's starting to get fast again. in short i've got no complaints on that. my only hope is that i can finish this book before i get "DT" burnout! he he & mayhap start the next novel in the series.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i'm now on page 382. this book has picked up steam but like all of "King's" books he he. it hasn't had any REAL action scenes yet. i'm of course talking about the flashback story Not the intro of "Blaine The Mono" 'Jonas" just found "The Lookout" which i just LOVE it would have been great if "Roland" still kept it when 1st meet him & hell even leave him!

i can't wait until 'Roland" & "Jona's Duel that no doubt will happen soon enough. :)

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i've moved quite a bit ahead since i last posted here. page 470. Roland & his Ka-tet just got arrested for killing thorin & his chanceller so in short the story is starting go get good.

[Brainslinger]

i've moved quite a bit ahead since i last posted here. page 470. Roland & his Ka-tet just got arrested for killing thorin & his chanceller so in short the story is starting go get good.

Good going! Without spoiling much, your in for some exciting stuff soon!

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i'm a bit further now. i took some time off from reading actually. sometimes you just need a break from reading before you can charge your batteries so to speak. he he. now i'm on Chapter 9 Page 536. it's reaping day. well reaping Morn. as they call it. Susan is about to be kidnapped.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

well i'm done with the flashback story now. i'm on page 626 now. & i think the battle the final battle i mean wasn't as good as i thought it would be to be honest. it was cool though. but Roland & his Ka-Tet going after Jonas gang was a cooler battle.

[Roland of Gilead 33]

well i FINALLY got around to finishing the damn book tonite. it took me to damn near 3 am. i have to wake up for 7 to get ready for work. & i did enjoy it. but my favorite is still "The Drawing of the three" though i did enjoy seeing Roland being more Human than he was previously. the wizard of Oz at the end was strange. even for sai king. i may start the 5th book tonite or i may start the 6th Harry Potter book tonite i haven't read either book

well i think i've read 50 some pages of "Harry Potter" the 6th one i mean. anyways i just thought you all would like to know. i may post more on my thoughts of the book tonite. but for now i'm beat & i'm off to bed. soo nite good days & pleasant nites.