Will the series's ending translate well to film? **SPOILERS**

[fernandito]

Like it or not, a Dark Tower film hitting the silver screen is only a matter of time. (http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-dark-tower/239933/stephen-king-promises-dark-tower-movie-is-still-coming)

I've been thinking a lot about the things that will have to be modified, edited, added or subtracted to the film; the one element that sticks out most prominently in my mind is the ending.

Roland being stuck in a loop was very heavily hinted at throughout the story - Ka, time is a wheel etc. - and a large part of that was conveyed through exposition and third person narration. We knew of the significance of the horn of Eld because Roland thought of it often, which means that by proxy we did too.

Movie audiences will have no such asset. Imagine this scenario - the final portion of the final film is being played out in the movie theater, we see Roland get sucked backed into the desert and reaching for, perhaps caressing the Horn of Eld, mayhap he mutters something to himself... and the film ends. Chaos ensues in the movie theaters.

The way I see it, the creative team can do one of two things:

1. Keep the ending as is, but have the Horn of Eld play a much larger role in the film. It will have to be mentioned and referenced often, perhaps to the point of ad nauseam.

2. Change the ending... perhaps the film takes place after "our" loop so that Roland is in possession of the Horn from the very beginning, giving King and the team free reign to go a completely different direction with the film's ending.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see them go with option number 2. As it stands, I'm not necessarily crazy about the novel's ending (I felt it was a cop out), and this would be a chance to do something different, perhaps something King thought of between the publication of DT VII and now. It would be a very organic change, the nature of the story lends itself to it. Roland has gone through this loop a hundred, a thousand, or a million times -- who says it has to be our loop? Perhaps this time he did everything right and is ultimately rewarded... whatever that might mean.

What does everyone think?

[Girlystevedave]

Although I love the original ending, I could understand it being altered to satisfy audiences. It's difficult enough to translate a book to film without omitting important factors, but with 7 series to include, it seems nearly impossible to successfully pull it off. If the horn of Eld and Ka are not prominent factors in the movie(s), the ending would be incomprehensible to moviegoers.

Having the story take place after "our" loop surely does leave the story open for a lot of changes. :orely:

[webstar1000]

I myself loved the ending... found it very fitting for the enormity of the adventure.. no other way to end it. MY ONLY issue was the build up over TONS of King's books to a grand show down with Roland and The Man in Black... and there was none..instead Flagg gets eaten by a spider... that sucked. I preferred Andy's death in Wolves MUCH MORE.

[Zurov]

I would like to see what happens after the novels loop, but that could entirely change the story including the deaths of various characters. There is also a lot of inner dialogue that would be difficult to portray on a movie that could detract from the overall story. But I'm excited for a movie. Just hope they don't do it like The Mist was done

[chucknbuck]

I love the idea of the movie taking off from the ending of book VII. I think most audiences will feel cheated with the story coming back to the beginning, even with the possibility of a new story trajectory since he has the horn. I also think that SK is stubborn about changing his stories for the screen, and can see him being very protective of his epic series. I imagine the ending is what has impeded the series being brought to the screen up to this point. The ending as is adds a lot of risk for the studios.

[Merlin1958]

I love the idea of the movie taking off from the ending of book VII. I think most audiences will feel cheated with the story coming back to the beginning, even with the possibility of a new story trajectory since he has the horn. I also think that SK is stubborn about changing his stories for the screen, and can see him being very protective of his epic series. I imagine the ending is what has impeded the series being brought to the screen up to this point. The ending as is adds a lot of risk for the studios.

IDK, yes and no. I know I was really pissed at first, but I have come around to embrace the ending and it is as it should be. I think audiences will come to understand that. However, as you say, I can see that as being somewhat of a detriment for studio's.

[Iwritecode]

I also think that SK is stubborn about changing his stories for the screen

Really? I think he's the exact opposite. He pretty much tells the film makers, "It's your baby, you run with it."

[chucknbuck]

I might be putting too much weight in his feelings towards Kubrick's version of "the shining".

[fernandito]

I think most audiences will feel cheated with the story coming back to the beginning, even with the possibility of a new story trajectory since he has the horn...
Concur.



I also think that SK is stubborn about changing his stories for the screen

Really? I think he's the exact opposite. He pretty much tells the film makers, "It's your baby, you run with it."

He should take a page out of George R.R Martin's book and trust the eventual showrunners to do right by the series.
The Game of Thrones showrunners have made several changes but always they've almost always been economic and necessary for the medium while maintaining the integrity of the source material.

[King of the North Coast]

Your crazy. D&B have BUTCHERED Martin's story for TV. It's painful to watch. Someone please make it STOP!!! That said, I think DT will be a MUCH easier adaptation. One of the big problems translating aSoIaF into GOT is the sheer scope of it. In the books, your talking about over a thousand named characters. Now that they are on season five, the big problem is that new characters, who the books had already had the time to developers intensively, start to play bigger and bigger roles, and the show simply hadn't had the time to introduce them. I think rather than make the first three episodes nothing but seemingly arbitrary character introductions, they decided to change the story a little more. It's not working. The choices they've made simply make no sense in the context of the story. DT doesn't have that same kind of scope where characters are concerned. The one book I expect will get shorted big time, and it's a shame since it was one of my favorites in the series, is Wizard and Glass. I would be willing to bet they do a quick synopsis of that material and then move on.

[Johnny Alien]

With GOT, people that have been reading the books assume that all of the characters and storylines they have read actually have meaning as far as where the story is going to end up. The show writers have the whole time line and how everything leads to the ending. They are actually trimming out completely unnecessary characters and story arcs and getting things to where they need to be in a more compact and arguably better fashion. There are those (like myself) that feel they are improving some of the worst parts of the last two books by condensing those storylines and then there are those who love the verbose explorations of Westeros. I would not in any way say they are butchering the story and if anything it is giving an early glimpse to the book readers as to what plots actually have zero to do with progressing the story.

[chucknbuck]

I think the original plan was to have three (or more?) movies and a companion TV series. I'm not sure how they would break things up. I could see a TV series being the main story mechanism, with the movies slipping into place for i) the Mejis story, ii) the second coming of Jake, and iii) the latter half of book VII. Fun to think about the various ways it could be done.

[Thing Fish]

Obviously a lot of people don't like the ending and would like to see a different one, but I don't see why the ending would work less well on film than in the book. In fact, they could do exactly what the book did and have the first and last shots be identical. They would need to be sure to throw in some mentions of the Horn of Eld, but I don't think they would need to constantly beat the audience over the head with it any more than SK did in the books.

[chucknbuck]

I could be wrong, but I feel that the mass moviegoing audiences expect a story to have a real sense of closure. A sense that the story ends. The idea of a really well developed and intriguing character being stuck in a repeating loop (which King himself has stated he imagines hell to be) may not send audiences out with a good feeling. I think the ending as the book has it may appeal to more of the indie movie crowd though, and probably readers of the books who liked the ending.

Full disclosure, I didn't like the ending. I liked and was invested in the character of Roland, and my interpretation of the ending is indeed he is in hell. I'm just not the sort that likes that kind of ending. I know many others feel more hopeful about the ending, but King's comments on hell being about repetition, there is no longer much question in my mind. For me, the ending is one of King's biggest failures, right behind Maximum Overdrive. I've strayed from the topic, and I apologize.

[Merlin1958]

I could be wrong, but I feel that the mass moviegoing audiences expect a story to have a real sense of closure. A sense that the story ends. The idea of a really well developed and intriguing character being stuck in a repeating loop (which King himself has stated he imagines hell to be) may not send audiences out with a good feeling. I think the ending as the book has it may appeal to more of the indie movie crowd though, and probably readers of the books who liked the ending.

Full disclosure, I didn't like the ending. I liked and was invested in the character of Roland, and my interpretation of the ending is indeed he is in hell. I'm just not the sort that likes that kind of ending. I know many others feel more hopeful about the ending, but King's comments on hell being about repetition, there is no longer much question in my mind. For me, the ending is one of King's biggest failures, right behind Maximum Overdrive. I've strayed from the topic, and I apologize.

I hear you. I was initially one of those that was like "WTF"!!!! regarding the ending, but I came to fully understand it after awhile. What could he really have wrote that would have been satisfying when you really think about it? There was just too much of a build up for him to realistically provide a satisfactory ending beside's the one he gave us.

[chucknbuck]

It was going to be impossible to have an ending that everyone liked for sure. It was a daunting task. I'm pretty sappy, I do like my happy endings. Others would have cried foul of that I suppose. And I generally know better than to expect that from King. It will be interesting to see what they do with the movies/series.

[fernandito]

I could be wrong, but I feel that the mass moviegoing audiences expect a story to have a real sense of closure. A sense that the story ends. The idea of a really well developed and intriguing character being stuck in a repeating loop (which King himself has stated he imagines hell to be) may not send audiences out with a good feeling.

Precisely. What works for novels will not necessarily work for movies.

I didn't like the ending either, to this day. Every time I get the urge to reread the series I think of the ending and it deters me from starting over again.

[fernandito]

From the Ain't It Cool (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/71731) article


They also told me my long-standing advice on how to crack the adaptation was actually put into the script: Roland did start out with the Horn of Eld. Readers will know what that means and why it's crucial to any adaptation of the material.

This is the way to go IMO. It gives them reign to do something completely different for the ending.

[chucknbuck]

Now that is very exciting news. A rumor I suppose, but I hope it turns out to be true, and that they don't change it in future drafts of the script. Three books into one script it says, which implies one movie? Must be doing the bulk of the character development in the TV series part of it.

[Merlin1958]

Giving him the horn opens a world of possibilities.

[fernandito]

If they do decide to go that route, I wonder how much involvement King would have (if any) on what happens in this theoretical next loop.

[chucknbuck]

Related to that, will King as a character in the story be written out. King's son Joe Hill could actually play the young King if he stays in the story. :lol:

[stroppygoblin]

Giving him the horn opens a world of possibilities.

:wtf: LOL! It always does with me!

[fernandito]

Related to that, will King as a character in the story be written out. King's son Joe Hill could actually play the young King if he stays in the story. :lol:

Lol, good call!

And honestly, I hope that whole bit is written out. It always felt really hokey to me.

[chucknbuck]

Agreed. It disrupted the flow of the story. I could tolerate the reference to King's books, but it got out of control.

[Merlin1958]

If they do decide to go that route, I wonder how much involvement King would have (if any) on what happens in this theoretical next loop.

Actually, as far as a film would go, I don't think it would be considered a "next loop" to viewers technically. Yes, those who read the books would know, but if they gave, Roland the "horn" in the beginning I'm thinking they are going for a different ending altogether, no? No more "loops", this is the end.

[Merlin1958]

Giving him the horn opens a world of possibilities.

:wtf: LOL! It always does with me!

Trust a, Brit!! LOL LOL LOL

[fernandito]

If they do decide to go that route, I wonder how much involvement King would have (if any) on what happens in this theoretical next loop.

Actually, as far as a film would go, I don't think it would be considered a "next loop" to viewers technically. Yes, those who read the books would know, but if they gave, Roland the "horn" in the beginning I'm thinking they are going for a different ending altogether, no? No more "loops", this is the end.

True no more loops, but a part of me is fairly certain that they'd allude to it one way or another. It depends on how integral the creators feel the loops are to the fabric of Roland's character.

[Merlin1958]

If they do decide to go that route, I wonder how much involvement King would have (if any) on what happens in this theoretical next loop.

Actually, as far as a film would go, I don't think it would be considered a "next loop" to viewers technically. Yes, those who read the books would know, but if they gave, Roland the "horn" in the beginning I'm thinking they are going for a different ending altogether, no? No more "loops", this is the end.

True no more loops, but a part of me is fairly certain that they'd allude to it one way or another. It depends on how integral the creators feel the loops are to the fabric of Roland's character.

Yeah, I would agree it needs to be addressed for an accurate rendition.

[Xerrand]

Honestly, I think that a dark tower movie would probably change the ending completely. The idea sickens me, but I kind of get it as well, as I'm not sure that the book ending would translate well to an audience who had never read the books before.....still I would hate it hahaha,

I can see them doing something really cringey like having him meet Susan at the top of the tower or something similar. All the while I would be sat there screaming NOOOO!!!

[fernandito]

*bump

for the newcomers..

[Jon]

*bump

for the newcomers..


*come

for the newbumpers...

[fernandito]

:lol:

[wonderings]

I think that is what will happen. Books transferred to movies are always dumbed down. The scope of the DT series is MASSIVE. They would need a dozen movies or more to maybe get close to doing the stories justice.

I did read in a magazine about the movie and they said this was not retelling the story we have all read, but starting where the books ended, the next loop and this time Roland has the horn. I am pretty sure they will have things much more clear cut when the end comes, for good or bad. As much as I am looking forward to the movie, I am also dreading it. Stephen King movies are either amazing or terrible, no in-between. I am worried with the massive story that is the DT, they will not do it justice in even the slightest bit. I look forward to being proved wrong.

[fernandito]

The way I see it, the creative team can do one of two things:

1. Keep the ending as is, but have the Horn of Eld play a much larger role in the film. It will have to be mentioned and referenced often, perhaps to the point of ad nauseam.

2. Change the ending... perhaps the film takes place after "our" loop so that Roland is in possession of the Horn from the very beginning, giving King and the team free reign to go a completely different direction with the film's ending.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see them go with option number 2. As it stands, I'm not necessarily crazy about the novel's ending (I felt it was a cop out), and this would be a chance to do something different, perhaps something King thought of between the publication of DT VII and now. It would be a very organic change, the nature of the story lends itself to it. Roland has gone through this loop a hundred, a thousand, or a million times -- who says it has to be our loop? Perhaps this time he did everything right and is ultimately rewarded... whatever that might mean.

Omg, I completely called it :lol: :D

[The Gasherman]

The characters they have cast are very perplexing. King mentioned the story sort of starting halfway through, but clearly The Gunslinger is a big part. Susan is cast, as well as Sayre, but no Cort, No Vannay, No Stephen, No Pere. It seems we are going to get some desert, some Mejis, some NY. Very odd.

[Iwritecode]

Susan is cast,

She is?

[Bev Vincent]

Susan is cast,

She is?

Supposedly.

[The Gasherman]

Looks to be pretty good casting

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2661400/?ref_=tt_cl_t10

[Jon]

Susan is cast,

She is?


Yes...Courtney Love!!

[The Gasherman]

Seems like it would be difficult to address the loop since Roland is completely unaware. I was thinking it would be cool to start the movie at the final ascent, but that isn't going to happen.

[fernandito]

An overwhelming percentage of people who will watch this movie have no idea about the loop (let's face it, we book readers will be in the minority), so I would think the studio wants to keep the loop plot twist under wraps for as long as possible.

[wonderings]

An overwhelming percentage of people who will watch this movie have no idea about the loop (let's face it, we book readers will be in the minority), so I would think the studio wants to keep the loop plot twist under wraps for as long as possible.

Or will they even bother throwing it in? Studios seem to like dumbing down stories that do not need alteration. I get needing to leave things out and fine tune a story so it works in the few hours you have, but rarely if ever is that done. Constantly changing characters, adding characters, adding romance, etc etc. The Hobbit was a perfect example of that, same with the Narnia movies.

[Xerrand]

Like it or not, a Dark Tower film hitting the silver screen is only a matter of time. (http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-dark-tower/239933/stephen-king-promises-dark-tower-movie-is-still-coming)

I've been thinking a lot about the things that will have to be modified, edited, added or subtracted to the film; the one element that sticks out most prominently in my mind is the ending.

Roland being stuck in a loop was very heavily hinted at throughout the story - Ka, time is a wheel etc. - and a large part of that was conveyed through exposition and third person narration. We knew of the significance of the horn of Eld because Roland thought of it often, which means that by proxy we did too.

Movie audiences will have no such asset. Imagine this scenario - the final portion of the final film is being played out in the movie theater, we see Roland get sucked backed into the desert and reaching for, perhaps caressing the Horn of Eld, mayhap he mutters something to himself... and the film ends. Chaos ensues in the movie theaters.

The way I see it, the creative team can do one of two things:

1. Keep the ending as is, but have the Horn of Eld play a much larger role in the film. It will have to be mentioned and referenced often, perhaps to the point of ad nauseam.

2. Change the ending... perhaps the film takes place after "our" loop so that Roland is in possession of the Horn from the very beginning, giving King and the team free reign to go a completely different direction with the film's ending.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see them go with option number 2. As it stands, I'm not necessarily crazy about the novel's ending (I felt it was a cop out), and this would be a chance to do something different, perhaps something King thought of between the publication of DT VII and now. It would be a very organic change, the nature of the story lends itself to it. Roland has gone through this loop a hundred, a thousand, or a million times -- who says it has to be our loop? Perhaps this time he did everything right and is ultimately rewarded... whatever that might mean.

What does everyone think?

None of that will be in the first movie anyway - it focuses only on the first book, with a lot of changed parts that are purely invented for the movie. If the movie is successful and they decide to continue on with it as a series then who really knows? It's already been established that the movie is set after the final book, with Roland having the horn of eld at he beginning of the movie.

So really they could change the ending any which way they choose with that in mind.

[Merlin1958]

Like it or not, a Dark Tower film hitting the silver screen is only a matter of time. (http://www.denofgeek.us/movies/the-dark-tower/239933/stephen-king-promises-dark-tower-movie-is-still-coming)

I've been thinking a lot about the things that will have to be modified, edited, added or subtracted to the film; the one element that sticks out most prominently in my mind is the ending.

Roland being stuck in a loop was very heavily hinted at throughout the story - Ka, time is a wheel etc. - and a large part of that was conveyed through exposition and third person narration. We knew of the significance of the horn of Eld because Roland thought of it often, which means that by proxy we did too.

Movie audiences will have no such asset. Imagine this scenario - the final portion of the final film is being played out in the movie theater, we see Roland get sucked backed into the desert and reaching for, perhaps caressing the Horn of Eld, mayhap he mutters something to himself... and the film ends. Chaos ensues in the movie theaters.

The way I see it, the creative team can do one of two things:

1. Keep the ending as is, but have the Horn of Eld play a much larger role in the film. It will have to be mentioned and referenced often, perhaps to the point of ad nauseam.

2. Change the ending... perhaps the film takes place after "our" loop so that Roland is in possession of the Horn from the very beginning, giving King and the team free reign to go a completely different direction with the film's ending.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see them go with option number 2. As it stands, I'm not necessarily crazy about the novel's ending (I felt it was a cop out), and this would be a chance to do something different, perhaps something King thought of between the publication of DT VII and now. It would be a very organic change, the nature of the story lends itself to it. Roland has gone through this loop a hundred, a thousand, or a million times -- who says it has to be our loop? Perhaps this time he did everything right and is ultimately rewarded... whatever that might mean.

What does everyone think?


None of that will be in the first movie anyway - it focuses only on the first book, with a lot of changed parts that are purely invented for the movie. If the movie is successful and they decide to continue on with it as a series then who really knows? It's already been established that the movie is set after the final book, with Roland having the horn of eld at he beginning of the movie.

So really they could change the ending any which way they choose with that in mind.


Yeah, Roland opens the door at the top of the tower and sees a bright glob of light, which says in an ethereal voice. "The answer to life the universe and everything, my son is 42" lol

[Johnny Alien]

Having read the series from when it was first published (in trade paperback that is) and having to wait for years between books, it took me quite awhile to come to terms with the loop ending and appreciate it. My son who is 15 just binge read the whole series and came away loving the ending immediately. When I talked to him about the horn of eld being in the movie and this being a different loop he hated the idea even though I think it's a clever way to keep the book people pleased and make needed changes for a film translation. But the reason he hates it is because he knows they will write and ending to it and what he loved do much about the loop is that there isn't any other ending you can give a series like this. He is worried that the writers will write an ending he hates vs the open ended version that the books gave us. I am starting to think he might be right.

[otherjr1]

I thoroughly doubt the makers are expecting to follow the books closely at all. Seven movies? I doubt it. That's why they have Susan already cast and used in this first one. What we're going to have is a kind of DT revue. They're going to take little bits and jam them together into something barely recognisable. If you think you're going to get anything close to the books, think again.

[BrandoRex]

***SPOILERS ALL***

If you haven't already seen it:

http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/the-dark-tower-horn-of-eld-f-ck-yes/2/

I was a bit disappointed that Scott Eastwood wasn't cast. He was my first pick (Clint probably would have been King's choice provided the movie was made in the 80's). But with King announcing the above and Idris being cast, maybe this Roland is another one. Just like there is another Eddie behind another door. Whose to say that maybe when he gets to the end, that there aren't several Roland's? Whatever they do, I'm excited with the cast they have and Ron Howard being attached to it for so long.

I'm also very excited to hear that Wizard and Glass will be an accompanying TV series to the movies.

[locke11110]

I hated the ending to an extent I cannot fully explain. I have read through the whole series twice and have re read books 2 through 5 many time (I dont know the exact amount).

I think the ending was like the ending to the original mario brothers. Just a silly 'go back to the begginning'.

I think the idea that some fans have that 'its the only way it could have ended' is ridiculous.

And it is proven in the story when Roland is given the horn. The horn is a gift from Gan. Meaning this time (probably the 19th time Roland has been through the cycle) Roland achieved something he hadnt before. Which means Roland does something different every time and is probably qorking towards something.

If I was to guess, I would guess Stephen King did this on purpose. Stephem King loves his books to be movies because he appreciates both form of story telling. He alludes to his characters taking inspiration from movies co stantly. Roland like cliny eastwood. Roland and mort symbiosis being like the terminator. The wolves having lightsabers.

I truly believe he always imagined hos magnum opus ending not on a seventh book, but by film. I think the series will not follow the 19th run through, but the 20th.

In the dark tower universe nothing has happened chronologically after the 7th dark tower book. Maybe the whole universe resets along with Roland. And maybe this time Roland really will fix it.

[BountyHunter]

And Roland is suddenly black for this next loop. Interesting. I wonder how that happened? :smile_002:

[Merlin1958]

And Roland is suddenly black for this next loop. Interesting. I wonder how that happened? :smile_002:


Black is the new Caucasian. lol lol :smile_002: