Planning to participate in the soon upcoming SCI-FI tournament? Get in here! (POLL)

[fernandito]

Something that has been mentioned lately is the possibility of films present in the horror tournament spilling over to the science fiction tournament as well.

I posted my reasoning in the finals thread:

'when films like Alien, The Thing, The Fly were entered into the Horror tournament, they were judged on their strength as a horror film first. If they're nominated for this next tournament, they'll be judged as a sci-fi. If it's entered and performs poorly in the polls/gets eliminated early, we'll know it's lacking in that particular genre, in which case hypothetically superior films move on.'

I wanted to leave it up to everyone though. If you would like seeing films like those mentioned above, go ahead and vote for the first option. If you don't want them to show up, the second.

Leaving this poll open indefinitely.

[Jean]

voted yes, for the reasons given in the post above

[fernandito]

Cool!

sidenote, jean; I cannot freaking wait to get this tournament underway. SF is my favorite anything. My horror knowledge is sadly lacking compared to the likes of you and Heather, but sci-fi is ... home <3

Looking forward to some of the discussions we'll be having!

[Jean]

bears, alas, don't feel adequate in this field... will have to sit out most of the time

: sad bear :

[Tommy]

Thinking....

[Ben Staad]

Yes and Event Horizon.

[Merlin1958]

Interested to see where this goes. I voted, Yes

[needfulthings]

WHY WAS THIS QUESTION EVEN ASKED?

[Merlin1958]

WHY WAS THIS QUESTION EVEN ASKED?


You got me, I just work here.

[needfulthings]

JUST BRING IT ON!
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/9606/n066.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9776/rvx7s.jpg

[fernandito]

WHY WAS THIS QUESTION EVEN ASKED?
It seemed there was a bit of hesitation with letting films appear in both tournaments so I wanted give everyone a chance to voice their opinion. Want to make the tournaments as enjoyable as possible.

ps - I really hope your question wasn't rhetorical lol.

[Mattrick]

I don't have an issue with that so long as it ISN'T a horror film that happens to take place in space or something. It really needs to be sci-fi first like Alien is. If it doesn't even explore sci-fi themes outside of being in a sci-fi setting then I don't see why it would even be nominated. I'd much be seeing something like District 9 or Moon advance in a sci-fi tournament than an Event Horizon or Species, where as a movie like Splice is a sci-film with horror aspects.

[frik]

Looking forwards to another great ride......

sk

[Brice]

There is so much overlap that I'd consider it necessary.

[needfulthings]

There is so much overlap that I'd consider it necessary.
Unfortunately that is an IMPOSSIBLE task.
http://imageshack.com/a/img820/6232/es8l.jpg

[Brice]

True, but the two genres are practically married imo.

[pathoftheturtle]

True, but the two genres are practically married imo.
They're siblings, but the movies they have together are not much more deformed than most of horror's other children.

[needfulthings]

UNFORTUNATELY WE ALL KNOW HOW THIS ONE WILL END.... IN A TIE.
http://imageshack.com/a/img842/5313/3va38.jpg

[mae]

JUST BRING IT ON!
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/9606/n066.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9776/rvx7s.jpg

With all due respect, why would these be nominated as best sci-fi movies of all time?

[fernandito]

Welp, looks like we're pretty much all on board!

[needfulthings]

JUST BRING IT ON!
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/9606/n066.jpg http://imageshack.com/a/img841/9776/rvx7s.jpg

With all due respect, why would these be nominated as best sci-fi movies of all time?

1.Do you see any NOMINATION connected with these examples of SCI-FI posters?
2.Have you seen either of the films depicted in the posters?
FYI NOT OF THIS EARTH is one of Roger Corman's best pictures & has been remade twice it must have something going for it.( I for one happen to LOVE this CHEAP gem. The BEST...NO. But high on my list of CULT CLASSICS.)
A quote from Bill Warren's EPIC TOME on the 50s SCI-FI Films KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES! (A MUST READ)McFarland ISBN 978-0-7864-4230-0
http://imageshack.com/a/img819/9057/mknj.jpg

[mae]

The '50s had some great sci-fi classics but I don't know if I'd place Not of This Earth in the top ten. It's definitely a cult classic, but I'd place The Blob and Fiend Without a Face above it. The 1950s had great all-time classic though, like The Day the Earth Stood Still and Forbidden Planet, which in my book would challenge for a spot in the Sci-Fi Final.

[fernandito]

FYI everyone

We'll be begin nominations for this tournament immediately following the conclusion of the Horror final, using an identical format. Look out for that!

[needfulthings]

WHEN IS THE DEADLINE?
SO WE WILL KNOW WHEN....
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/6177/du1p.jpg

[fernandito]

The poll closes on Wed the 25th, afternoon. We'll have the nominations thread up and running the 26th.

[mae]

One tweak I'd propose is having multiple-choice for the first rounds. For example, if the top three move on, how about having everyone pick their three they'd like to see move on.

[fernandito]

Does the multiple choice function allow you 3 votes maximum?

[Mattrick]

I concur with the multiple choice as I think not having really fudged up the horror tournament...think we would have seen a much different second round. You should be able to set the poll to number of votes allowed. Only being able to choose one not only kept smaller films from advancing it left us with some pretty lopsided polls. With multiple choice the races would be much tighter and much better.

[mystima]

Just to get a more clear meaning of what this tournament will involve, would movies like The Coneheads, Mars Attacks, or Spaceballs be eligible for this genre?

[Merlin1958]

I don't have an issue with that so long as it ISN'T a horror film that happens to take place in space or something. It really needs to be sci-fi first like Alien is. If it doesn't even explore sci-fi themes outside of being in a sci-fi setting then I don't see why it would even be nominated. I'd much be seeing something like District 9 or Moon advance in a sci-fi tournament than an Event Horizon or Species, where as a movie like Splice is a sci-film with horror aspects.


I concur with the multiple choice as I think not having really fudged up the horror tournament...think we would have seen a much different second round. You should be able to set the poll to number of votes allowed. Only being able to choose one not only kept smaller films from advancing it left us with some pretty lopsided polls. With multiple choice the races would be much tighter and much better.


Just to get a more clear meaning of what this tournament will involve, would movies like The Coneheads, Mars Attacks, or Spaceballs be eligible for this genre?

These are all excellent points and why I mentioned in the "Horror" thread, a brief discussion to define the genre and focus the nominations a little. To avoid some of these questions. Seems prudent and we should get varying view points. FWIW I would tend to view the three movies, Mystima mentioned as "Spoofs" not true Sci-Fi, but hopefully you see my point. Alien is obviously a case in point as it has been defined (here at least) as a "Horror" film, but is also classic Sci-Fi so good to go IMHO.

Just some thoughts is all. I'm not trying to stall the nominations, but it would seem prudent to take a day or so and discuss and see if we can come up with some loose parameters is all I'm saying.

Oh, and I really like the three vote idea, if it can be done.

[mae]

I don't think there's a way to limit multiple-choice polls to a certain number, unfortunately. So if there are eight choices, you could vote for all eight but we should ask people to be prudent and honest and select up to three. This can be checked by making the poll voters visible.

[Jean]

I don't think there's a way to limit multiple-choice polls to a certain number, unfortunately. So if there are eight choices, you could vote for all eight but we should ask people to be prudent and honest and select up to three. This can be checked by making the poll voters visible.

when we were voting Top 100 novels, I made the multiple choice polls plus tiebreakers, and when those didn't result in anything conclusive, I also added single-choice tiebreakers. It's additional work, but totally worth it.

[mae]

I hope you can take part in this tournament, Jean. Two all-time great sci-fi films happen to be Russian: Solaris and Stalker.

[Jean]

I don't think more than two or three people have watched those...

I am prepared to vote for Back to the Future! I hope it will survive long enough

[Ricky]

it would seem prudent to take a day or so and discuss and see if we can come up with some loose parameters is all I'm saying.

I would agree with that as well. I think either the multiple-choice option should be implemented, or decrease the amount of films in each poll. There were too many in the earlier rounds (especially since we could only vote for one), in my opinion. If Psycho happened to be in the mix with four other smaller horror films, maintaining our one vote minimum, they'd be eliminated right off the bat.

EDIT: Just went back to the early polls and saw that as many as EIGHT films were in Round 1 brackets. Top three moved on, but still.

[Heather19]

I'm fine with trying out the multiple vote option if Feev is up for it as well. I wonder if it will make a difference. Personally I'm not sure it would have with the horror competition as the ones to make it to the finals weren't all that surprising. They were probably the strongest contenders we had.

[Jean]

I wouldn't be surprised if the finalists were Psycho and either The Exorcist of The Shining.

[fernandito]

I don't think there's a way to limit multiple-choice polls to a certain number, unfortunately. So if there are eight choices, you could vote for all eight but we should ask people to be prudent and honest and select up to three. This can be checked by making the poll voters visible.

when we were voting Top 100 novels, I made the multiple choice polls plus tiebreakers, and when those didn't result in anything conclusive, I also added single-choice tiebreakers. It's additional work, but totally worth it.
Cool, that sounds like it could work. If I we get to a situation where a tie breaker is needed and I have any questions I'll link up with you, Jean.



I hope you can take part in this tournament, Jean. Two all-time great sci-fi films happen to be Russian: Solaris and Stalker.
Scolaris and Stalker are GOAT sci fi. Incredible films. Unfortunately I don't think Jean is much of a Tarkovsky fan. I know because it broke my heart when he told me that :(



I am prepared to vote for Back to the Future! I hope it will survive long enough
Hopefully!


I'm fine with trying out the multiple vote option if Feev is up for it as well. I wonder if it will make a difference. Personally I'm not sure it would have with the horror competition as the ones to make it to the finals weren't all that surprising. They were probably the strongest contenders we had.
Yeap, I agree. The cream will always rise to the top. I think the final 4 we had were always destined to make it to this stage.

And besides, I've always found a brutal charm in having people only vote for one film. With multiple choices you're more likely to an encounter a "ehhh, fuck it, why not" vote; where as in a system where people can only vote for one, they're going to vote for the film they feel REALLY deserves it. Fully on board with multi choice system though.

[Jean]

I don't think there's a way to limit multiple-choice polls to a certain number, unfortunately. So if there are eight choices, you could vote for all eight but we should ask people to be prudent and honest and select up to three. This can be checked by making the poll voters visible.

when we were voting Top 100 novels, I made the multiple choice polls plus tiebreakers, and when those didn't result in anything conclusive, I also added single-choice tiebreakers. It's additional work, but totally worth it.
Cool, that sounds like it could work. If I we get to a situation where a tie breaker is needed and I have any questions I'll link up with you, Jean.

do! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif.html) although I have to warn you: after every fucking one of the Top 100 polls I spent hours, in especially complicated cases days, tearing my hair out and screaming "what am I supposed to do with this NOW???!!!!!"


Scolaris and Stalker are GOAT sci fi. Incredible films. Unfortunately I don't think Jean is much of a Tarkovsky fan. I know because it broke my heart when he told me that :(
Oh, I was just trying to show off my unorthodox tastes at that time! Though I really don't love Tarkovsky as much as some other directors you know, he is still an extremely talented director, and I will certainly watch any of his films against (probably; we don't know the selection yet) any other that might appear in this category. At least his are real films. If you know what I mean. Which you do.

[Mattrick]

And besides, I've always found a brutal charm in having people only vote for one film. With multiple choices you're more likely to an encounter a "ehhh, fuck it, why not" vote; where as in a system where people can only vote for one, they're going to vote for the film they feel REALLY deserves it. Fully on board with multi choice system though.

What constitutes a film that really deserves it? Its legacy? Its 'classic' status? Its quality? Its scares? Its story? Its role in the history of the genre and the films it influenced? What it means to us as individuals? What about foreign horror films that haven't reached the audience that The Shining has, does that make it less deserving? I'm sure everyone has their own reasons for voting a certain way and without multiple choices there is no subjection. Take this poll in the first round for instance: http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?18261-Best-Horror-Round-1-Group-15, it finished up:

Silence of the Lambs - 11
Cloverfield - 1
[REC] - 1
Evil Dead - 3
Dracula - 4
Loa Condenados - 0
We's Craven's New Nightmare - 2
Escalofrio - 1

11 people voted for silence of the lambs while 13 voted for the other 7 films altogether, is this an accurate depiction? If everyone could vote three times, where would those extra 48 votes go? Who knows but half the votes wouldn't be practically wasted on a classic and half of the remaining votes wouldn't be practically wasted on the films that only got one vote which just makes it that much harder for any of the other 7 films to advance. While it's possible the same three films would have gotten the three most votes I doubt it in this particular group that would have happened. With another 48 votes as we'd see a more accurate consensus.

[fernandito]

What constitutes a film that really deserves it? Its legacy? Its 'classic' status? Its quality? Its scares? Its story? Its role in the history of the genre and the films it influenced? What it means to us as individuals? What about foreign horror films that haven't reached the audience that The Shining has, does that make it less deserving? I'm sure everyone has their own reasons for voting a certain way and without multiple choices there is no subjection.
You're right, not everyone votes the same way so there really is no true answer to your inquiry as to which film is 'deserving'. Some people will vote for a film's technical achievements, others favor nostalgia. It's really at the mercy of the voter's partiality.



11 people voted for silence of the lambs while 13 voted for the other 7 films altogether, is this an accurate depiction? If everyone could vote three times, where would those extra 48 votes go? Who knows but half the votes wouldn't be practically wasted on a classic and half of the remaining votes wouldn't be practically wasted on the films that only got one vote which just makes it that much harder for any of the other 7 films to advance. While it's possible the same three films would have gotten the three most votes I doubt it in this particular group that would have happened. With another 48 votes as we'd see a more accurate consensus.

Tbh I don't really care to get into What Ifs. The films that made it made it, and they made it for a reason. If the multiple choice is that much of a deciding factor for you, well you'll get you're chance in this tournament!

[Merlin1958]

Tell you what, I'll take a very limited stab at defining the genre and then folks can go from there. Hopefully we can come to some sort of a consensus before, Ferny's suggested nomination date. Fair enough?

A Sci-Fi film should have at least one or more of the following...

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)


There you go, its a start at least. Rudimentary? Yes, but we gotta start somewhere. BTW, FWIW "Star Wars" may be a lock for this thing, but it should be fun to take the journey.

[Mattrick]

Tell you what, I'll take a very limited stab at defining the genre and then folks can go from there. Hopefully we can come to some sort of a consensus before, Ferny's suggested nomination date. Fair enough?

A Sci-Fi film should have at least one or more of the following...

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)


There you go, its a start at least. Rudimentary? Yes, but we gotta start somewhere. BTW, FWIW "Star Wars" may be a lock for this thing, but it should be fun to take the journey.

I am hoping people don't forget about sci-fi films that aren't as obviously sci-fi, like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.


As for this tournament I will lose all faith if none of these brilliant Science Fiction films make it out of the first round: Fantastic Planet, Dark City and Wall-E

[Mattrick]

Tell you what, I'll take a very limited stab at defining the genre and then folks can go from there. Hopefully we can come to some sort of a consensus before, Ferny's suggested nomination date. Fair enough?

A Sci-Fi film should have at least one or more of the following...

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)


There you go, its a start at least. Rudimentary? Yes, but we gotta start somewhere. BTW, FWIW "Star Wars" may be a lock for this thing, but it should be fun to take the journey.

There are a lot of films that won't jump to people's minds when they think of Science Fiction but I hope that doesn't work against movies like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Fantastic Planet, Wall-E and Dark City: if neither of these brilliant sci-fi films passes the first round....

[Merlin1958]

Tell you what, I'll take a very limited stab at defining the genre and then folks can go from there. Hopefully we can come to some sort of a consensus before, Ferny's suggested nomination date. Fair enough?

A Sci-Fi film should have at least one or more of the following...

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)


There you go, its a start at least. Rudimentary? Yes, but we gotta start somewhere. BTW, FWIW "Star Wars" may be a lock for this thing, but it should be fun to take the journey.

There are a lot of films that won't jump to people's minds when they think of Science Fiction but I hope that doesn't work against movies like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

Fantastic Planet, Wall-E and Dark City: if neither of these brilliant sci-fi films passes the first round....

Well then, you should get to amending my list as appropriate!!

[Jean]

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)
6. Multiverse

reminds me of Baker's Dozen

[divemaster]

I'm looking forward to this tourney as well. However, when it comes to "classic" sci-fi, I'm much more likely to have read the book/story than seen the movie. Case in point: Farewell to the Master; Day of the Triffids, many others. Modern sci-fi; yeah, I've probably seen the movie. Aliens, Dark City, and T2 would have to be top-10, yes?

[Merlin1958]

1. Alien life forms
2. (Relative) futuristic technology
3. Space travel
4. Time travel (perhaps redundant)
5. A story based on the future (relative to the time frame in question)
6. Multiverse

reminds me of Baker's Dozen

Great "Add", Jean!!!

[Mattrick]

I'm assuming Multiverse would include all parallel universe films whether it's actual parallel universes or something like Existenz with multiple layers of artificial reality.

Perhaps we should make a short list of what we're looking for with a film for each as an example? Sci-Fi is so broad that even something like Limitless with Bradley Cooper can be considered science fiction even lacking everything we would considered to define sci-fi.


And are we picking just one Star Wars/Star Trek film to represent the series? There weren't too many series/sequels in the horror tournament, I just don't want 10% of the nominated films to be from these two franchises lol

[Merlin1958]

Well, seems like a discussion and parameters are a good idea, no?

[Jean]

I'm assuming Multiverse would include all parallel universe films whether it's actual parallel universes or something like Existenz with multiple layers of artificial reality.
certainly; bears just tried to be concise


Perhaps we should make a short list of what we're looking for with a film for each as an example? Sci-Fi is so broad that even something like Limitless with Bradley Cooper can be considered science fiction even lacking everything we would considered to define sci-fi.
or we could just discuss the nominations as we go

[Merlin1958]

I'll just back whatever, Bears go with.

[Mattrick]

To me science fiction is anything that takes place out of what we consider to be normal, mostly in a technological sense. So say Splice/Frankenstein are like mad scientist movies that are both horror/sci-fi at once.

But to me what defines 'true sci-fi' as opposed to 'sci-fi' is the themes and the questions the film seeks to answer and/or explore. The Empire Strikes Back is a great sci-fi film but does it work much to answer the questions of life and the universe? Blade Runner for instance questions what makes human beings human and what makes identity identity. Dark City is a study on human interaction and how identity, social classes, profession, memories, experiences don't necessarily make us who we are because those things are changed for us every night. Fantastic Planet depicts human beings as insects and pests and forces us to both identity from with the Oms (humans) as physical siblings to us and the Drogs (aliens) as philosphical and mental siblings to us so that we might agree with both sides of the conflict. Minority Report considers the moral and ethical guidelines of policing to the point of punishing people for crimes they haven't even committed yet. Groundhog Day delves into the question 'what if' and being able to go back in time and correct mistakes, fix relationships or perhaps manipulate the future with knowledge of what is to come for personal benefit. Eternal Sunshine ponders the emotional weight of memories and whether or not it's in our nature to forget (or if it's in our nature to just make the same mistakes again) and if we had the technology to erase bad memories would erasing those memories be like erasing parts of ourselves? These are the sorts of films I hope do well in these touraments and not some special effects romp that may be fun but veil thin like Starship Troopers (As much as I love it).

[Jean]

I'll just back whatever, Bears go with.

that way lies madness http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif.html)http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/bear4bis.gif.html)

[Merlin1958]

To me science fiction is anything that takes place out of what we consider to be normal, mostly in a technological sense. So say Splice/Frankenstein are like mad scientist movies that are both horror/sci-fi at once.

But to me what defines 'true sci-fi' as opposed to 'sci-fi' is the themes and the questions the film seeks to answer and/or explore. The Empire Strikes Back is a great sci-fi film but does it work much to answer the questions of life and the universe? Blade Runner for instance questions what makes human beings human and what makes identity identity. Dark City is a study on human interaction and how identity, social classes, profession, memories, experiences don't necessarily make us who we are because those things are changed for us every night. Fantastic Planet depicts human beings as insects and pests and forces us to both identity from with the Oms (humans) as physical siblings to us and the Drogs (aliens) as philosphical and mental siblings to us so that we might agree with both sides of the conflict. Minority Report considers the moral and ethical guidelines of policing to the point of punishing people for crimes they haven't even committed yet. These are the sorts of films I hope do well in these touraments and not some special effects romp that may be fun but veil thin.


I think you have to stay focused on the "Premise".

[Jean]

I am beginning to have that gnawing feeling that Inception will be the winner

[Merlin1958]

I am beginning to have that gnawing feeling that Inception will be the winner

Very good nomination. An excellent film!!!

[Mattrick]

To me science fiction is anything that takes place out of what we consider to be normal, mostly in a technological sense. So say Splice/Frankenstein are like mad scientist movies that are both horror/sci-fi at once.

But to me what defines 'true sci-fi' as opposed to 'sci-fi' is the themes and the questions the film seeks to answer and/or explore. The Empire Strikes Back is a great sci-fi film but does it work much to answer the questions of life and the universe? Blade Runner for instance questions what makes human beings human and what makes identity identity. Dark City is a study on human interaction and how identity, social classes, profession, memories, experiences don't necessarily make us who we are because those things are changed for us every night. Fantastic Planet depicts human beings as insects and pests and forces us to both identity from with the Oms (humans) as physical siblings to us and the Drogs (aliens) as philosphical and mental siblings to us so that we might agree with both sides of the conflict. Minority Report considers the moral and ethical guidelines of policing to the point of punishing people for crimes they haven't even committed yet. These are the sorts of films I hope do well in these touraments and not some special effects romp that may be fun but veil thin.


I think you have to stay focused on the "Premise".

Those are the premises. The premises only exist because of the themes which is what sets sci-fi apart from other genres imo.

[T-Dogz_AK47]

I am beginning to have that gnawing feeling that Inception will be the winner

The Matrix was better... :nana:

[Merlin1958]

To me science fiction is anything that takes place out of what we consider to be normal, mostly in a technological sense. So say Splice/Frankenstein are like mad scientist movies that are both horror/sci-fi at once.

But to me what defines 'true sci-fi' as opposed to 'sci-fi' is the themes and the questions the film seeks to answer and/or explore. The Empire Strikes Back is a great sci-fi film but does it work much to answer the questions of life and the universe? Blade Runner for instance questions what makes human beings human and what makes identity identity. Dark City is a study on human interaction and how identity, social classes, profession, memories, experiences don't necessarily make us who we are because those things are changed for us every night. Fantastic Planet depicts human beings as insects and pests and forces us to both identity from with the Oms (humans) as physical siblings to us and the Drogs (aliens) as philosphical and mental siblings to us so that we might agree with both sides of the conflict. Minority Report considers the moral and ethical guidelines of policing to the point of punishing people for crimes they haven't even committed yet. These are the sorts of films I hope do well in these touraments and not some special effects romp that may be fun but veil thin.


I think you have to stay focused on the "Premise".

Those are the premises. The premises only exist because of the themes which is what sets sci-fi apart from other genres imo.


Oh, now you are just going on to hear yourself talk. Sci-Fi is the premise and the underlying focus, no? Social issues and etc are a by product, Focus on the film from an entertainment perspective.

[Mattrick]

I am. I get very entertained by sci-fi films that force me to consider the world, life, humans, space and time in different ways. When sci-fi stories are conceived the stories are conceived around ideas and questions, they don't just happen to pop out of the story halfway through as a bi-product. Unless you're telling me that all the philosphy and religious subtext in The Matrix was an accident and all they really wanted some cool looking bullet time effects? Themes aren't accidents, they are the foundation in which our stories and films are built. The movie Aritificial Intelligence ponders what would happen if a robot were programmed to love; that is the premise and the central theme. You can break down just about every sci-fi film in such a way unless it is just entertainment sci-fi which doesn't care about expanding out minds but whipping them into SFX submission lol; the difference between The Day The Earth Stood Still and Independence Day.

How can you say Science Fiction is the premise then disagree with me? Science is about seeking answers and expanding mankind's knowledge and capabilities which means Science Fiction is designed to further such discussions or else it's just Fiction.

[Still Servant]

I don't see a problem with it. I'm just happy we are doing another movie tournament so soon.

Most of this thread is worrying about horror films being lumped in with Sci-fi. The bigger question is fantasy films. Sci-fi/Fantasy often get paired together. For example, The Lord of the Rings. To me it's more fantasy, but some people would consider it Sci-fi.

I will start compiling my list now.

[needfulthings]

The Lord of the Rings.. Fantasy.. Imaginative Fiction.. But NEVER have I EVER heard it called Science Fiction.

[Mattrick]

Who says Lord of the Rings is science fiction? There isn't even any electricity in Middle Earth! I think sci-fi/horror have a lot more common genetics when you think of films like Species/Splice/Virus/Alien/Fourth Kind/War of the Worlds...a screw it, it's a long ass list anyways lol. I can't think of any fantasy films I'd also consider sci-fi outside of Star Trek/Star Wars which share a lot of fantasy tropes.

[WeDealInLead]

For me, proper S.F. examines "What if? questions and scenarios. I'm not necessarily looking to be entertained (although that's a huge plus); I want to have my interested piqued in a new idea. 1984 has no actual science in it at all, but to me that is a science fiction movie (and book) through and through. Ditto Fahrenheit or recently, Never Let Me Go.

Examples: I consider Foundation by Asimov science fiction. It's basically historical science fiction. Caves of Steele by Asimov, although set in space and features sophisticated AI, robots and life on another planet, is just a detective novel in a futuristic setting. Big difference and I think what Mattrick was talking about.

[Still Servant]

I never said The Lord of the Rings is Sci-fi. I said some people lump it in with Sci-fi. Meaning they put it in the Sci-fi/fantasy genre. My local movie store had a section that was Sci-fi/fantasy. Lord of the Rings was in that section and it always drove me crazy. I've seen places that put Sci-fi/fantasy together and I don't like it. That's all I was saying.

By the way, we may have to expand this tourney because I already have 30 Sci-fi films on my list and that was in 5 minutes.

[Still Servant]

Just for those who still think I'm crazy. Check the movie info.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_return_of_the_king/

[pathoftheturtle]

Alternate worlds, alien creatures, and etc. don't have to mean sci-fi -- all those can appear in fantasy as well. If a mystic being (wizard, angel, etc.) sends the hero back in time with magic, does that count?

[needfulthings]

HERE WE GO!
http://imageshack.com/a/img822/8734/c1ee.jpg

Is 1984 still Science Fiction.:unsure:

[Still Servant]

I don't mean to open up a can of worms. I just want to be clear that we are strictly sticking to Sci-fi and not fantasy. I figured it was assumed, but you never know.

[Still Servant]

In case you guys are interested, I have this book "101 Sci-fi Movies You have to See Before you Die." It's pretty good. I also have a Horror movie one, a Gangster one and a War movie one. My mom got them for me for Christmas a few years ago. They are all fun reads.

http://www.amazon.com/101-Sci-Fi-Movies-Must-Before/dp/0764141252/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403579174&sr=8-1&keywords=101+sci+fi+movies+you+have+to+see+before+ you+die

By the way, 1984 is in there.

[WeDealInLead]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

[mae]

Starship Troopers, which was mentioned a few posts back, is a much deeper film about fascism then it looks like at first glance.

[needfulthings]

SCIENCE FICTION?
http://imageshack.com/a/img841/4264/p4pls.jpg

[pathoftheturtle]

I don't mean to open up a can of worms. I just want to be clear that we are strictly sticking to Sci-fi and not fantasy. I figured it was assumed, but you never know.
It's just a little hard to tell the difference in some cases.

And while Spaceballs is clearly just a comedy about sci-fi, there are also sci-fi comedies - another line that's not easy to decide just where to draw.

[Mattrick]

Sci-Fi comedies:

Evolution
Midnight In Paris
The World's End
Bicentennial Man
Groundhog Day
Ghostbusters


I know I'm nominating Her for sure. I have no problem with sci-fi comedies if horror comedies were not only allowed but advanced lol

[pathoftheturtle]

What about superheroes? Superman comes from another planet. Can we nominate Superman?

[RUBE]

I love Groundhog Day but isn't the "time-travel" element of him repeating days mystical? It is definitely not technological which I am guessing would be what would make it Sci-Fi.

Here is a quote that was used on Wiki from a film critic trying to define a science fiction film:

"Science fiction film is a film genre which emphasizes actual, extrapolative, or speculative science and the empirical method, interacting in a social context with the lesser emphasized, but still present, transcendentalism of magic and religion, in an attempt to reconcile man with the unknown (Sobchack 63)."

[divemaster]

I would agree that science fiction would have to have some element of science. Groundhog Day, as great a movie as it is, is clearly fantasy or (as RUBE put it), mystical. Whimsical, even.

Likewise, I think most super hero movies are action movies, not sci-fi. A case could be made for something like Buck Rogers to be sci-fi. But Superman, Batman, Spiderman? Not sold on that. Six Million Dollar Man? OK (but that was a TV show).

[mae]

Batman is most definitely not sci-fi.

[Jean]

oh shit!! I didn't even thing of those complications! In Russian, both SciFi and fantasy used to come under one single definition - фантастика - although now we too are inclined to separate the genres (научная фантастика or фэнтези), and I grew up being unable to discern between the two, unless fantasy is something unreadable about princes and dragons and swordfights.

But all the best authors are not scientific, are they? Bradbury? Sheckely? What genre are they, then?

I am confused now, because if Groundhog Day doesn't qualify, it means I totally lost all guidelines

[mae]

I wouldn't mind if Groundhog Day is nominated. It isn't sci-fi per se, but features a time loop, which is a type of time travel. I would argue that a romantic comedy like About Time can also be nominated (loved it).

[Jean]

Kate and Leopold?

or, to talk about serious films, Jacob's Ladder?

[mae]

Time loop films are probably even a subgenre of sci-fi films: Groundhog Day, Edge of Tomorrow, Source Code, Timecrimes, Triangle, Looper, Primer...

[fernandito]

I am. I get very entertained by sci-fi films that force me to consider the world, life, humans, space and time in different ways.
Same here. It's an inherent property of science fiction that is unique to it and just can't be replicated in any other genre. I recently watched Gattaca again and watching it and pondering all of its questions makes me remember how much I love the more profound aspects of sci-fi, and not just the laser guns and robots and shit.


For me, proper S.F. examines "What if? questions and scenarios. I'm not necessarily looking to be entertained (although that's a huge plus); I want to have my interested piqued in a new idea. 1984 has no actual science in it at all, but to me that is a science fiction movie (and book) through and through. Ditto Fahrenheit or recently, Never Let Me Go.

You mean like speculative Sci-Fi? Me too. It's why I have a deep admiration for the likes of Vonnegut and Philip K. Dick. I'll be hoping to see films that fall under that umbrella in this tournament. Make sure you're there to nominate them!

[fernandito]

You guys, I've got an itchy trigger finger here. I have virtually nothing to do today and tomorrow at work and I want to get the nominations underway already hahaha.

[Iwritecode]

I don't mean to open up a can of worms. I just want to be clear that we are strictly sticking to Sci-fi and not fantasy. I figured it was assumed, but you never know.
It's just a little hard to tell the difference in some cases.

And while Spaceballs is clearly just a comedy about sci-fi, there are also sci-fi comedies - another line that's not easy to decide just where to draw.

Like Galaxy Quest?

[Jean]

You guys, I've got an itchy trigger finger here. I have virtually nothing to do today and tomorrow at work and I want to get the nominations underway already hahaha.
what stays your hand?

[fernandito]

Good question! I didn't want it to detract / steal spotlight away from the Horror tournament, but that contest looks all but decided soooo....

Fuck it, let's get this party started!

[pathoftheturtle]

I don't mean to open up a can of worms. I just want to be clear that we are strictly sticking to Sci-fi and not fantasy. I figured it was assumed, but you never know.
It's just a little hard to tell the difference in some cases.

And while Spaceballs is clearly just a comedy about sci-fi, there are also sci-fi comedies - another line that's not easy to decide just where to draw.

Like Galaxy Quest?
I guess so. I would say that's also not real scifi at all. Do you think it is?

[Still Servant]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

That's cool with me, I really enjoyed it. I'm sure others might disagree. Also, a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups should be on the American flag.

For those that are interested, Rotten Tomatoes has a list of Sci-fi films they posted today. Might be an interesting read.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/gallery/24-frames-certified-fresh-sci-fi-action-movies/

[Mattrick]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

That's cool with me, I really enjoyed it. I'm sure others might disagree. Also, a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups should be on the American flag.



Isn't Emily Blunt from the UK? May as well put Elisha Cuthbert and Nicole Kidman doing push ups too :P

[Tommy]

Voted Yes, Finally

[Iwritecode]

Is there a reason the nominations thread is locked?

[fernandito]

I closed it on accident, Code. It should be open now.

[Still Servant]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

That's cool with me, I really enjoyed it. I'm sure others might disagree. Also, a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups should be on the American flag.



Isn't Emily Blunt from the UK? May as well put Elisha Cuthbert and Nicole Kidman doing push ups too :P

Yes, she is English. I stand by my original statement.

[Mattrick]

I closed it on accident, Code. It should be open now.

You closed the video game thread too.

[Mattrick]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

That's cool with me, I really enjoyed it. I'm sure others might disagree. Also, a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups should be on the American flag.



Isn't Emily Blunt from the UK? May as well put Elisha Cuthbert and Nicole Kidman doing push ups too :P

Yes, she is English. I stand by my original statement.

Someone would have supported the red coats :P

[Still Servant]

In honour of your avatar and the memory of a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups imprinted onto my retina, I'll nominate Edge of Tomorrow once the tournament starts.

That's cool with me, I really enjoyed it. I'm sure others might disagree. Also, a sweaty Emily Blunt doing push ups should be on the American flag.



Isn't Emily Blunt from the UK? May as well put Elisha Cuthbert and Nicole Kidman doing push ups too :P

Yes, she is English. I stand by my original statement.

Someone would have supported the red coats :P

As long as that red coat that Emily Blunt is wearing ends up crumpled up on my floor, yes, yes I would have.