Round 8-C: Dostoyevsky vs. J.R.R.Tolkien

[Jean]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4b/Crimeandpunishmentcover.png/200px-Crimeandpunishmentcover.png VS. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/62/Jrrt_lotr_cover_design.jpg

[mae]

C&P.

[Jean]

... and now they tied

[Mattrick]

If Lord of the Rings wins I will burn this website to the ground.

[Merlin1958]

If Lord of the Rings wins I will burn this website to the ground.

Simmer down now!!! I LOVE LOTR!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivC5fvFnfS0

[Mattrick]

My eyes cannot accept what they are seeing right now. I'm almost offended by these results :/ Now I have to see Dostoesky lose to frackin' Harry Potter now too, don't I?

[mae]

LOTR is great, no doubt, and I have all those beautiful Tolkien deluxe editions but come on...

[stroppygoblin]

Books are emotive things. It's not always just about which is the better story or has the better writing. Factors such as the age you were when you read it first, who introduced you to or gave you the book, your emotional state at the time, etc all have a contributing factor to how you rate it personally. I read a book as a child called "The Phantom Tollbooth" (there was even an animated film made of it). Not a great book by anyones standards, but as a young kid I thought it was full of intelligent humour and concerned a solitary child which resonated with me personally. I have often looked for a really nice 1st edition, but alas nothing yet.

[Mattrick]

But this shouldn't have anything to do with sentimentality. This is about the greatest novels, not most beloved novels.

[Mattrick]

Like I voted Animal Farm over The Old Man and the Sea because its the better novel, not because I love it more...I even put Animal Farm over Catcher In The Rye which I love so much.

[stroppygoblin]

But this shouldn't have anything to do with sentimentality. This is about the greatest novels, not most beloved novels.

I think many will find that a hard distinction to make. A lot of books on this list were nominated because they were peoples favourites. What makes them great is that others agree. The more they agree the higher they will go.

[Jean]

I am not sure we should differ "greatest" from "most loved".

[RainInSpain]

C&P.
Because I think it is a book that can make a lasting, profound, and even character-changing effect on the person who reads it. Regardless of age, gender, etc. Because the feelings and thoughts it touches upon sit way deeper within the personality than anything LOTR can ever reach.

Disclosure: I do not particularly like LOTR (call me biased :) ). Respect it for its magnitude and the ability to make hordes of people love it (all the way to wanting to LIVE it). It was a very difficult read for me, not because it was "uninteresting" per se, but because reading it felt like I was cruising it, not really having the feelings that a book *must* awaken to be considered great. For the record, read it at about the same age as C&P.

[Jean]

wow!! Marina, you said exactly what I would have said - only better! :rose: :rose: :rose:

[RainInSpain]

I'm honored, Jean. Thank you.
:couple:

[pathoftheturtle]

Me, too. Very well said. I'm not in favor of trying to divide "greatest" from "most loved," either, but LOTR is a work I really liked, not a work I really loved, and it seems to me that people need to think about that difference.

[RainInSpain]

Thank you, Mike.
:)

[Mattrick]

Well you can love a book that isn't particularily well written but isn't that what this is about? The best written books? In terms of the style and content of writing there is a gaping canyon between Dostoevsky and Tolkien. Favourite has nothing to do with quality, or at least not in all cases. There are films I love and can watch over and over again but I know they are not great, then there are films that are so good I have to wait years between viewings. I think Dostoevsky's best book is Brother Karamazov but Notes From Underground is my favourite and if I have to judge the greatness of one vs the other, which I do when it's called 'greatest novels' I look at them objectively side by side. Favourite for me is a word that denotes partiality where greatest doesn't. That's just how I vote on these things. Favourites can always change because we change but the quality of the work never changes, it is always the same and it's always great to re-visit art as we age because we will always see it even though it never actually changes.

I'm just thinking if a bunch of our members loved Twilight and Twilight was beating Dostoevsky...I'm getting chills just thinking about it lol

[pathoftheturtle]

The greatest works have partiality within them. If you set aside the personal viewpoint and try to asses writing unromantically, could you allow yourself to give any more credit to the writer who expresses a romantic take on personal cares than to one who is firm-minded and technical?

[Mattrick]

I don't mean to say someone is wrong in voting with partiality...but isn't partiality what gave us Indiana Jones as the greatest film character of all time? I recall some sadness over that lol

[pathoftheturtle]

Well, I'm not sure: It's hard to say exactly what it was that led ultimately to that.

Fortunately, I keep my sense of perspective. We can criticize literary guilds for acting like the lists they come up with are supremely definitive, but some of us don't even pretend that what this site does is perfect. What can you say but "Come on, guys, LOTR, seriously?"

Just no burning the place to the ground, okay? :P

[Mattrick]

I'll try not to lol Maybe I'll re-read 451 and just imagine it's Lord of the Rings only that gets burned lol

[Patrick]

Sorry, guys, but C&P beat me down somewhere about half way through. All the self-flagellation and angst felt like it stretched on forever to the point of feeling over-the-top. I could not bring myself to finish the book. I have a strong need for closure, so that almost never happens.

Perhaps I will revisit CRIME AND PUNISHMENT someday and my perception will change, but until then, it isn't winning any contests for me.

[Patrick]

Books are emotive things. It's not always just about which is the better story or has the better writing. Factors such as the age you were when you read it first, who introduced you to or gave you the book, your emotional state at the time, etc all have a contributing factor to how you rate it personally. I read a book as a child called "The Phantom Tollbooth" (there was even an animated film made of it). Not a great book by anyones standards, but as a young kid I thought it was full of intelligent humour and concerned a solitary child which resonated with me personally. I have often looked for a really nice 1st edition, but alas nothing yet.
Man, I loved that book! In junior high, we adapted the book into a stage play. I played Milo in our school production of The Phantom Tollbooth.

[Jean]

this poll closes tomorrow

[SirFolio16]

This one shocks me a little.

[stroppygoblin]

This one shocks me a little.

Based on the reading preferences of most of the people on this site? surprise? (and I realise thats a *very* wide brush I just tarred everyone with...)

[Jean]

bears are only surprised (pleasantly so!) that Dostoyevsky has come that high!

[SirFolio16]

I know that I am in the minority on this but I am not really impressed with Tolkien. I thought The Hobbit and LOTR was good but not great. IMHO large portions of the books are just filler that drag the story down. To me his books always felt like a bed time story for that kid that just wont go to sleep and needs the story to be dragged out a bit.

Please don't shoot me.

[stroppygoblin]

I know that I am in the minority on this but I am not really impressed with Tolkien. I thought The Hobbit and LOTR was good but not great. IMHO large portions of the books are just filler that drag the story down. To me his books always felt like a bed time story for that kid that just wont go to sleep and needs the story to be dragged out a bit.

Please don't shoot me.

Quick! Donate some money before Bill reads this!

I see you already did! The power of a semi naked woman eh?

[SirFolio16]

LOL... it's my weakness...

[Merlin1958]

I know that I am in the minority on this but I am not really impressed with Tolkien. I thought The Hobbit and LOTR was good but not great. IMHO large portions of the books are just filler that drag the story down. To me his books always felt like a bed time story for that kid that just wont go to sleep and needs the story to be dragged out a bit.

Please don't shoot me.

Quick! Donate some money before Bill reads this!

I see you already did! The power of a semi naked woman eh?

Minions!! Kill, Maim and destroy, Sirfolio!!!! After the HF!!!

Not like the LOTR!!!! OMG!!! :emot-flame:

[SirFolio16]

Wow harsh!!! At least I have a few more months to live... If it helps I do love Gandalf...

[Merlin1958]

What can I say? I'm very passionate in this regard!!!

[SirFolio16]

Fair enough... To each his own... At least I am not a Mets fan... Go Yankees!!!

[SirFolio16]

All joking (on my side) aside I would like to note one more thing. I stand by the fact that I am not a fan of Tolkien, but I do realize what his works have meant to the genre. He helped to inspire some of my favorite authors. And as I said I do love Gandalf. And while this may seem odd I would also like to mention that I am a contributing (financially) member of the Tolkien Society. I may not love Tolkien but I do realize how important his works are.

Thank you all for your patience. I will now stop derailing this thread (sorry about that by the way).

[Merlin1958]

All joking (on my side) aside I would like to note one more thing. I stand by the fact that I am not a fan of Tolkien, but I do realize what his works have meant to the genre. He helped to inspire some of my favorite authors. And as I said I do love Gandalf. And while this may seem odd I would also like to mention that I am a contributing (financially) member of the Tolkien Society. I may not love Tolkien but I do realize how important his works are.

Thank you all for your patience. I will now stop derailing this thread (sorry about that by the way).

Okay minions, the "contract" is off on him. He respects, Tolkien and what more can you ask? You're "Okay" in my book, Ray!! I'll even give ya a coupla "LOL" for your candor and support. LOL

[Mattrick]

Knowing the truth behind Middle Earth and Tolkiens reasonings for writing his books makes me sad he won this....a linguist who just needed a world for the languages he created beats an artist who captures humanity better than anyone else I've read....sigh....

[Jean]

can't deny that I tend to agree with the above sentiment (and definitions)

[Merlin1958]

Frodo Lives!!!!