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View Full Version : Michael Haneke, Lars Von Trier, Ingmar Bergman



Jean
01-23-2013, 05:37 AM
re: Haneke

I suppose many of us here are stunned by the guy.

Much as I personally hate his movies (I hope to be able to articulate my feelings after the massive Haneke [re]watch I'm starting tonight), I totally agree that he is one of the greatest.

I suggest that my friends, too, watch or re-watch as much Haneke as humanly (ursinely) possible in the foreseeable future, and we have an extended, in-depth discussion here.

Well, who is willing to have a Big Haneke Bout?

mae
01-23-2013, 07:34 AM
I was floored by his Funny Games.

Jean
01-23-2013, 08:50 AM
bears decided to start with The White Ribbon.

fernandito
01-23-2013, 08:52 AM
Well, who is willing to have a Big Haneke Bout?

Pretty sure you know what my answer is :D

And yes, I have been simply floored by his films in the past year or so. Everytime I watch one I have a vicious need to discuss them in depth so this thread will be my fix.

White Ribbon was the first one I watched so I'd be down to renew the cycle with that.

Also, he's in my top 5 now. Nolan, Tarantino, Kubrick, Anderson, Scorsese, Coppola, Carpenter, Spielberg, Park ... one of you needs to get up from their chair and let my boy Haneke sit at the big boys table :lol:

fernandito
01-23-2013, 09:02 AM
Also, here is a pretty cool interview he was featured in yesterday.

"Art doesn't offer answers, only questions." (http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/michael_haneke_art_doesn%E2%80%99t_offer_answers_o nly_questions/)

Jean
01-23-2013, 09:15 AM
White Ribbon was the first one I watched so I'd be down to renew the cycle with that.http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_thumb.gif

mae
01-23-2013, 09:36 AM
I also loved Caché. I think it and his own remake of Funny Games are thus far the only two films of his that I've watched but I was absolutely blown the fuck away by both.

Stockerlone
01-23-2013, 09:45 AM
In Germany we have a 4 DVD Box and a gigantic 10 DVD box with Michael Haneke movies.

http://www.amazon.de/Michael-Haneke-Box-4-DVDs/dp/3898488470

http://www.amazon.de/Michael-Haneke-Collection-Continent-Chronology/dp/B005EWE7PI

Shannon
01-23-2013, 02:50 PM
Nope, don't like him. I've only seen Cache and Funny Games, but both were a 2/5 for me. Cache was an OK film without resolution, and Funny Games was just strange to be strange. So ... that's my opin! lol

needfulthings
01-23-2013, 03:04 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7909/img548c.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img715/3369/img549pw.jpg

Still Servant
01-23-2013, 03:12 PM
I suppose many of us here are stunned by the guy.

Much as I personally hate his movies (I hope to be able to articulate my feelings after the massive Haneke [re]watch I'm starting tonight), I totally agree that he is one of the greatest.

I suggest that my friends, too, watch or re-watch as much Haneke as humanly (ursinely) possible in the foreseeable future, and we have an extended, in-depth discussion here.

Well, who is willing to have a Big Haneke Bout?

Wait. You hate his movies, but feel he is one of the greatest and you are re-watching his films. :scared:

Have any of you guys seen Amour yet? It was nominated for best picture.

fernandito
01-23-2013, 03:38 PM
Nope, don't like him. I've only seen Cache and Funny Games, but both were a 2/5 for me. Cache was an OK film without resolution, and Funny Games was just strange to be strange. So ... that's my opin! lol

It's cool if you don't like them because it's strange, but he never puts stuff in his films 'just because'. He is one of the most meticulous directors I've come across. Hell, even the clothing that his characters wear carries a load of subtext.



Have any of you guys seen Amour yet? It was nominated for best picture.

No but I plan to. My co worker has a second job at the Laemlee in Hollywood which is a really popular theater for celebrities to hit up, she met Tarantino a few weeks ago ..

Anyway I digress - she's a big Haneke fan and she said that this is one of her favorite films by him. I'm pretty sure it's going to come away with Oscar gold come award season. Wasn't Haneke also nominated for best director?

Heather19
01-23-2013, 04:31 PM
My co worker has a second job at the Laemlee in Hollywood which is a really popular theater for celebrities to hit up, she met Tarantino a few weeks ago ..

Lucky girl...


I've only seen The White Ribbon, which I loved. Funny Games, which was so so. I think it was just too much for me. And part of Time of the Wolf. I think I gave up on that one for some reason and haven't gone back to rewatch it. Maybe I'll check out Cache next.

Still Servant
01-23-2013, 07:51 PM
She met Tarantino? Man, it must be great to live in L.A. People must see famous people all over the place.

Jean
01-24-2013, 01:39 AM
Wait. You hate his movies, but feel he is one of the greatest and you are re-watching his films. :scared:
Precisely. I hope to explain myself after the re-watch. "Hating" is not the same as "feeling meh". For example, Spielberg just doesn't exist in my cinema universe, while Haneke does. And looms large. I will elaborate when I'm through with his complete legacy to date.

P.S. Much the same goes for von Trier and Ingmar Bergman.

Shannon
01-24-2013, 03:26 AM
No. NO! Bad Bears! Lars Von Trier. Meloncholia. Fucking horrible. The absolute worst movie I have ever seen. ZERO redeemable traits. Yet, of course, I go to imdb to read some reviews and I read "Beautiful! Best film of all time!" Fuck that. Yuck yuck yuck!

I hate the movie, get it? lol

Stockerlone
01-24-2013, 03:37 AM
Think the last movies from Michael Haneke that i saw are..... Benny's Video and Time of the Wolf.....

Melike
01-24-2013, 05:08 AM
I haven't seen Time of the Wolf and Amour yet.
He is king of Disturbia.

*I really like Melancholia.

Jean
01-24-2013, 05:19 AM
No. NO! Bad Bears! Lars Von Trier. Meloncholia. Fucking horrible. The absolute worst movie I have ever seen. ZERO redeemable traits. Yet, of course, I go to imdb to read some reviews and I read "Beautiful! Best film of all time!" Fuck that. Yuck yuck yuck!

I hate the movie, get it? lolI haven't been able to watch Melancholia yet, always stopped somewhere three quarters in. I will try some time. Maybe we should have a Nordic thread, for Haneke, Trier and Bergman combined (I don't really see big difference between them).

fernandito
01-24-2013, 08:37 AM
I love Melancholia. Lars Van Trier can be a bit of pompous prick but I can't take away anything from his skills as a film maker.

Anyway, getting back on track - when are we starting this rewatch? A week from now? Are we all in agreement to start with White Ribbon?


Maybe we should have a Nordic thread, for Haneke, Trier and Bergman combined (I don't really see big difference between them).

That's not a bad idea, actually ...

fernandito
01-24-2013, 08:42 AM
I haven't seen Time of the Wolf and Amour yet.
He is king of Disturbia.


Yeah, haven't seen those either. Amour is just out in theaters and Time of the Wolf isn't on netflix ... I might have to take the plunge and buy the DVD on Amazon or something.

Jean
01-24-2013, 08:44 AM
I suggest we start the rewatch NOW, and everyone watches as much as they can. I have noticed that if rewatches become more organized than this, nothing w orks as expected, and in the end nothing gets done. I think while we're all (well, both) enthusiastic, we must do whatever we can, hoping that more people and animals will join.

Jean
01-24-2013, 08:46 AM
Maybe we should have a Nordic thread, for Haneke, Trier and Bergman combined (I don't really see big difference between them).

That's not a bad idea, actually ...I think you can rename the thread now, before it is too late. We'll start with Haneke anyway, but I am sure the parallels with those two others are inevitable, so we might just as well legalize it.

fernandito
01-24-2013, 09:47 AM
Title has been changed.

I'm going to rewatch White Ribbon today or tomorrow.

Ricky
01-24-2013, 01:42 PM
No. NO! Bad Bears! Lars Von Trier. Meloncholia. Fucking horrible. The absolute worst movie I have ever seen. ZERO redeemable traits. Yet, of course, I go to imdb to read some reviews and I read "Beautiful! Best film of all time!" Fuck that. Yuck yuck yuck!

I hate the movie, get it? lol

:o

Shannon
01-24-2013, 02:52 PM
Melancholia was PAINFUL to sit through. Horrible characters, pretty much zero storyline, not interesting in the least, etc etc. I think the director muct have had beastiality sex tapes offered up as blackmail of Kiefer Sutherland and Alexander Skarsgaard because their talent and acting skills had no place in that piece of shit. Beautiful movie, yes, the way it's shot, yes, but big deal? Please, someone, anyone, tell me what was so "great" about this movie.

Stockerlone
01-24-2013, 03:05 PM
Also, here is a pretty cool interview he was featured in yesterday.

"Art doesn't offer answers, only questions." (http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/michael_haneke_art_doesn%E2%80%99t_offer_answers_o nly_questions/)

Do you know this documentarys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQDmGE01pWw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LequCRuuhk

fernandito
01-24-2013, 04:06 PM
Melancholia was PAINFUL to sit through. Horrible characters, pretty much zero storyline, not interesting in the least, etc etc. I think the director muct have had beastiality sex tapes offered up as blackmail of Kiefer Sutherland and Alexander Skarsgaard because their talent and acting skills had no place in that piece of shit. Beautiful movie, yes, the way it's shot, yes, but big deal? Please, someone, anyone, tell me what was so "great" about this movie.

Serious question, do you watch foreign films?

I ask because many foreign films - ESPECIALLY by Haneke and Trier - are exercises in allegory. Here we have two sisters, one who is depressed -Justine- and one who accepts it the world as it is - Claire. The accepting one tries to help the depressed one. Once they learn that the Earth is doomed, their roles are reversed. Justine becomes the accepting one and Claire drowns in despair and loses all hope. The looming planet, an external threat and the cause of Justine's anguish, is a physical representation of the emotional storm that burned inside of Justine's mind and soul. Trier wanted to show how frail our physical and emotional tether to this world is; it's very reminscent of the shot in Funny Games with the shot of the broken eggs, an allegorical touch employed to represent how fragile our existence really is.

Jean - you were spot on in wanting to combine Haneke and Trier my friend!

Shannon
01-24-2013, 04:27 PM
Yep. I watch some foreign films, but not many. I understand metaphors and allegory, but the movie itself was damn boring. A few of us have had this discussion before, regarding "boring" movies, and I was in the minority (I think, at the time) that boring movies, slow, dull, movies, are not interesting and/or exciting, therefore, they do not do anything for me.

Still Servant
01-24-2013, 04:51 PM
Yep. I watch some foreign films, but not many. I understand metaphors and allegory, but the movie itself was damn boring. A few of us have had this discussion before, regarding "boring" movies, and I was in the minority (I think, at the time) that boring movies, slow, dull, movies, are not interesting and/or exciting, therefore, they do not do anything for me.

I'm with you to a certain degree. I've mentioned this before other places and here I'm sure, my biggest pet peeve right now with Indy films is that they are really slow and minimalistic. I can't tell you how many Indy films end with that abrupt fade to black making the viewer decide the ending on their own. I'm not saying I need everything explained, but being mysterious and subliminal is starting to get pretentious.

I will give you an example. I watched Beasts of the Southern Wild the other day and the people in the film live in filth and shacks and their quality of life really isn't great. When a flood comes, they refuse to leave the area and be rescued. They will be brought to shelters where they would get warm meals and a nice bed to sleep in, yet they don't want any part of it. As a viewer, it makes them seem insane. I just can't possibly understand why they would want to keep living in "the Bathtub."

All I wanted was one scene between two characters expressing why they love living in "the Bathtub" and what it means to them. I could have written that scene in 5 minutes and it would have done wonders for the film. Now, I'm not an idiot. I understand the message they are trying to convey. To be happy with what you have no matter how little it is. Here are these people who have nothing, yet they are happy. How many people have everything, but are miserable?

Since it's an Indy film, they let the viewer fill in the blanks. This isn't a Mad Lib. It's a movie, I want more.

Heather19
01-24-2013, 04:56 PM
Well that review definitely doesn't make me want to see the film :lol: I was surprised by all the love it was getting at the Oscars.

I enjoyed Melancholia. Yes it was very slow, but it didn't really bother me. And that last scene was probably one of the most intense scenes I've ever seen in a film. Shannon, please tell me you enjoyed that part at least?

Ricky
01-24-2013, 05:04 PM
Here we have two sisters, one who is depressed -Justine- and one who accepts it the world as it is - Claire. The accepting one tries to help the depressed one. Once they learn that the Earth is doomed, their roles are reversed. Justine becomes the accepting one and Claire drowns in despair and loses all hope. The looming planet, an external threat and the cause of Justine's anguish, is a physical representation of the emotional storm that burned inside of Justine's mind and soul.

YES, YES, YES. Thank you, feev.


my biggest pet peeve right now with Indy films is that they are really slow and minimalistic. I can't tell you how many Indy films end with that abrupt fade to black making the viewer decide the ending on their own. I'm not saying I need everything explained, but being mysterious and subliminal is starting to get pretentious.

[...]

Since it's an Indy film, they let the viewer fill in the blanks. This isn't a Mad Lib. It's a movie, I want more.

Agree with what you said here, especially about mysterious endings and being indie film's lately leaning toward being "artsy" for artsy's sake as getting old and pretentious. Well stated.

Jean
01-28-2013, 06:33 AM
well, how is everyone doing? bears:

Das weiße Band
Benny's Video

tonight will be watching Le temps du loup

mae
01-28-2013, 06:41 AM
I didn't find Melanchola slow or boring. I think it's the type of film that you get out more of on the second viewing.

Stockerlone
01-28-2013, 09:07 AM
Some time ago i watched again Roman Herzogs Fitzkaraldo, inkl. the amazing doko. about the film produktion in the dschungel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75ADI9p2wHY

The filming was probably really the absolute madness. Klaus Kinski runs arround in the night with a real gun and fired arround..
It got so bad that the natives, hired as extras offered to kill Kinski for Herzog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Ai4ZDUNycec&NR=1

fernandito
01-28-2013, 09:29 AM
well, how is everyone doing? bears:

Das weiße Band
Benny's Video

tonight will be watching Le temps du loup

None of these - and White Ribbon - are on Netflix instant play :cry:

Will have to find alternate means ...

Jean
01-31-2013, 09:08 AM
well, bears are advancing at a fast pace:

Das weiße Band
Benny's Video
Le temps du loup
Caché

Lookwhoitis
02-09-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm with you to a certain degree. I've mentioned this before other places and here I'm sure, my biggest pet peeve right now with Indy films is that they are really slow and minimalistic. I can't tell you how many Indy films end with that abrupt fade to black making the viewer decide the ending on their own. I'm not saying I need everything explained, but being mysterious and subliminal is starting to get pretentious.

I will give you an example. I watched Beasts of the Southern Wild the other day and the people in the film live in filth and shacks and their quality of life really isn't great. When a flood comes, they refuse to leave the area and be rescued. They will be brought to shelters where they would get warm meals and a nice bed to sleep in, yet they don't want any part of it. As a viewer, it makes them seem insane. I just can't possibly understand why they would want to keep living in "the Bathtub."

All I wanted was one scene between two characters expressing why they love living in "the Bathtub" and what it means to them. I could have written that scene in 5 minutes and it would have done wonders for the film. Now, I'm not an idiot. I understand the message they are trying to convey. To be happy with what you have no matter how little it is. Here are these people who have nothing, yet they are happy. How many people have everything, but are miserable?

Since it's an Indy film, they let the viewer fill in the blanks. This isn't a Mad Lib. It's a movie, I want more.

I think you might be trying to take the film too literally.

Beasts is Magical Realism. It is mythic. You are not supposed to be able to figure it all out. It should percolate in your subconscious and connect you with the soul of the characters. You are supposed to FEEL the movie.

The film is the most accurate depiction of what it might be like to experience the “reality” events of the storyline through the eyes of a small child that I have ever seen. What is it like to experience hardship as a child? How does it change you? Set you on your life path? You SEE this in the film. You FEEL this in the movie.

The film draws a line between what is real and what Hushpuppy perceives as real. What is real? What the viewer perceives is real or what folks feel and see in their own lives?

You claim that these characters live in filth and shacks and because they are happy they must be insane. It seems like that is viewed through your perspective. The film is very true to life and captures effectively the flavor of New Orleans. Life is a little different down there. Laid back. Easy going. Not as complicated. Have a drink.

I’ve seen the city characterized by others before in negative ways. Dirty. Filthy. Too many Black people. Crime ridden. Poverty everywhere. Drugs. Murder capital of the USA.

But I know from first hand experience that New Orleans is one of the most “magical” places I’ve ever been to. Creative energy. Music. Soul. Zest of Life. Lagniappe (a little something extra). Cultural diversity. Respect.

With the yin, there always comes the yang. Life is shades of gray, not black and white.

Who is right? The outsider who looks at New Orleans (or the Bathtub) as a filthy crime ridden sty, or the Jazz lovers that come from the world over to see where the music was born. It is hard to say. I guess it all depends on how you look at it. The residents of the Bathtub want to stay where they are because it is there reality. It is not filth. The places where they live are not shacks. It is their homes. They are happy because they don’t know any better and don’t WANT any better. They are satisfied and that’s why they don’t want to leave. Life is beautiful if you experience it in the mindset that it is beautiful. Hardship happenes to everyone Rich or Poor. Shack or Mansion. Sooner or later a flood (the literal or metaphorical equivalent) comes along. It is how you deal with the adversity that shapes who you are. In Hushpuppy we see a girl who is troubled with circumstance, but she keeps on doing her own thing

I know how I saw the film. True to life in that part of the country. Mythical. Beautiful. Magical. It made my Heart sing

I saw the film at Sundance last year and knew immediately that Quvenzhané Wallis was going to get an Oscar nod. Am I Nostradamus, no, but I felt it in my heart. I said it right out of my mouth after walking out of the theater. That girl is going to get nominated. And she did. Best breakout performance of a child actor since Shirley Temple. Man I hope she wins it (I don’t think she will, but the nod is all the she needs)

This movie makes you FEEL. Well at least it made me feel. And I think it did the same to many others seeing how much critical acclaim it has gotten and nominations. Some folks just don’t get it, though and that is fine. Each is entitled to their own opinion. We all experience art differently. It is in the eye of the beholder.

Just so you know, you are not the only person I have heard disparaging the film. In fact I’ve heard a few complain. Some folks don’t like that fact that the effects are low budget. They claim it brings em out of the story. But you are not supposed to experience the film in that way. Literal. Straightforward Plot. Suspension of disbelief. This film poses questions and you have to answer them yourself (or dont, that's your prerogative). Take your own meaning from it. It is a visually beautiful feast and plus it is so mythologically deep, that some folks have a hard time understanding it.

Watch it again. Put yourself in the shoes of a resident of the Bathtub. Live life. Question. Experience loss. Love. Take the journey. Be Happy. :smile:

(I hope my comments are not offputting. I’m new here and not trying to accuse you of anything by not liking the film, or claim that my perspective is right and yours wrong. Its just a perspective. I mean I can even understand where you are coming from… I just had a completely different experience.)

Lookwhoitis
02-09-2013, 08:34 PM
Well that review definitely doesn't make me want to see the film :lol: I was surprised by all the love it was getting at the Oscars.


I say give Beasts a chance. Perhaps your experience will be different. Mine sure was. The film is Magical, Mythic, and showcases one of the greatest child performances of all time.

Lookwhoitis
02-09-2013, 08:41 PM
BAck to topic:

Huge Lars von Trier fan here. Zentropa blew me away. I dug Dogville and Manderlay. Still need to watch Antichrist and Melancholia.

Believe it or not I have never seen a Haneke film. Looks like I got some watching to do...

Melike
02-10-2013, 12:39 AM
BAck to topic:

Huge Lars von Trier fan here. Zentropa blew me away. I dug Dogville and Manderlay. Still need to watch Antichrist and Melancholia.

Believe it or not I have never seen a Haneke film. Looks like I got some watching to do...

Antichrist and Melancholia are my favorite two films of him. Hope you see both soon.
:couple:

fernandito
02-11-2013, 09:31 AM
I wasn't too keen on Dogville to be honest ...

Jean
02-11-2013, 09:32 AM
To be totally honest, I wasn't on any of them.

fernandito
02-11-2013, 09:46 AM
Believe it or not I have never seen a Haneke film. Looks like I got some watching to do...

I'd recommend Funny Games as a launch pad.


To be totally honest, I wasn't on any of them.

So you took nothing from them at all?

Jean
02-11-2013, 09:52 AM
No, not quite. There are miles between "too keen" and "took nothing". I am exploring the miles at the moment. The only Haneke I (marginally) liked so far was Das weiße Band; the only von Trier - Dogville.

Shannon
02-11-2013, 11:16 AM
Jean, did you watch Melancholia?

Jean
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
well, yes and no. I started a number of times, and never finished. Now the same thing is happening with a Haneke movie. Exactly one week ago I stopped halfway through, and have been watching only horrors ever since. This time, however, I am determined. I really really want to watch all of those Nordic guys and understand at last why it is that I hate them so much while others seem to love them. I also dearly hope my friends will help me; I expect elaborate and articulate reviews from everyone who is participating.

fernandito
02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
No, not quite. There are miles between "too keen" and "took nothing". I am exploring the miles at the moment. The only Haneke I (marginally) liked so far was Das weiße Band; the only von Trier - Dogville.

Well when you "explore those miles" let me know lol.

Jean
02-11-2013, 11:25 AM
No, not quite. There are miles between "too keen" and "took nothing". I am exploring the miles at the moment. The only Haneke I (marginally) liked so far was Das weiße Band; the only von Trier - Dogville.

Well when you "explore those miles" let me know lol.
No, wait! Are you doing your part? What have you already watched? Don't leave me alone with those cold superhuman judges of mankind.

Stockerlone
02-24-2013, 09:07 AM
Today in the German TV....

Michael Haneke - Liebe zum Kino (A/F, 2013)
Regie: Yves Montmayeur
Länge: 58 Min.

24.02.2013
23:15 bis 00:15 Uhr
Bayerisches Fernsehen

A new doku movie about Mr. Haneke
http://www.br.de/fernsehen/bayerisches-fernsehen/programmkalender/sendung-139750.html

Mattrick
02-24-2013, 11:22 AM
Everyone here should watch Amour, it's bloody fantastic.

Jean
02-24-2013, 11:28 AM
bears are totally planning to

Mattrick
02-24-2013, 11:40 AM
I assume Bears could watch Amour without subtitles? I wish I knew 10 languages so I could avoid subtitles on foreign films althogether. I don't hate subtitles, I just find they distract me from trying to absorb the shots and the performances and I know I'm always going to miss many a small things.

Jean
02-24-2013, 12:02 PM
You are absolutely right. Unfortunately, English and French are the only languages (besides Russian) I can watch films in without subtitles. If it's Italian, Polish or German (let alone Spanish), I need subtitles to make sure I understand correctly, and many nuances of the dialog slip by anyway - but on a re-watch (say, the third or fourth time, if the movie is worth it) I already can get almost all of it without subtitles, and without losing any of the picture. So, dear friends, learn languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it's a pleasure!

Lookwhoitis
08-08-2022, 08:40 PM
Lars von Trier, diagnosed with Parkinson's disease :cry:

https://deadline.com/2022/08/lars-von-trier-parkinsons-disease-1235087333/