The vision at the end...

[Matt]

What did you think. Was Walter trying to warn Roland of what was to come.

And how different is this scene between the original version and the revised?

[Storyslinger]

I don't really think Walter had any control over the vision, even though he may think he did. I think the vision came from Gan, trying to test Rolands mind of coprehension, meaning if he failed, he wouldn't serve Gan's purposes

[Wuducynn]

Yet Walter says the night was lengthened by his master. I don't think he was lying about that.

[Storyslinger]

and he does ask Roland what he saw, because he didn't know

[Matt]

I guess I can get on board with the idea that Walter was the "carrier" of that vision, or maybe it was the place...not sure.

But what he saw. This moment was really when I got into the books because I thought Roland was a bastard after he let Jake fall. However, that stuff about size and time and levels of the Tower. It really grabbed me.

[Wuducynn]

Right. I wonder if Walter might have facilitated the dream but Walter had little control over what happened within it. I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

[Storyslinger]

That is true, I can't seem to think of any real importance that Roland got from it that help him in the quest, just some foreshadowing elements

[TerribleT]

However, that stuff about size and time and levels of the Tower. It really grabbed me.

I've always been really intrigued by the idea of our world being a part of a pencil in another world. Of course there'd have to be some center, which makes the whole concept all the more intriguing.

[TerribleT]

Right. I wonder if Walter might have facilitated the dream but Walter had little control over what happened within it. I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

To give him some sense of the Tower, and what it actually meant?

[Wuducynn]

To give him some sense of the Tower, and what it actually meant?

The question still remains what importance did it have in his quest for the Tower? I look throughout the saga after the vision and I don't remember the dream effecting any of Roland's or his ka-tet's choices.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I love it when Matt goes back on topic...

I love it when Matt goes off topic too...

[zadok]

I don't really think Walter had any control over the vision, even though he may think he did. I think the vision came from Gan, trying to test Rolands mind of coprehension, meaning if he failed, he wouldn't serve Gan's purposes

Walter said "let there be light" more than once and the vision responded...

[zadok]

I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

It told us the ending! :nana:

Niether Death nor Life were in Roland's future, and he is consumed by the Tower...

[Storyslinger]

I don't really think Walter had any control over the vision, even though he may think he did. I think the vision came from Gan, trying to test Rolands mind of coprehension, meaning if he failed, he wouldn't serve Gan's purposes

Walter said "let there be light" more than once and the vision responded...

Was it Walter, or was it Gan or the Beam?

[Wuducynn]

I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

It told us the ending! :nana:

Niether Death nor Life were in Roland's future, and he is consumed by the Tower...

It told us the ending an very abstract sort of way yes, but I'm talking about Roland's quest, not us the readers. Where did it effect Roland's quest? I don't see any evidence that it did.

[Sai_Rhavan]

I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

It told us the ending! :nana:

Niether Death nor Life were in Roland's future, and he is consumed by the Tower...

I don't think the whole "life and death, not for you" meant Roland.

Death: Jack Mort.
Life: The return of Jake. The tower did represent covering his entire life though, but Stephen King really didn't know where he was going with it, he still had no ending.

[zadok]

I don't really think Walter had any control over the vision, even though he may think he did. I think the vision came from Gan, trying to test Rolands mind of coprehension, meaning if he failed, he wouldn't serve Gan's purposes

Walter said "let there be light" more than once and the vision responded...

Was it Walter, or was it Gan or the Beam?

Don't have the book in front of me, but it says the voice was Walter's and it sure was Walter saying "let there be light" at the very end when he puts Roland to sleep.

[zadok]

I also wonder what the importance of the vision was to the over-all saga.

It told us the ending! :nana:

Niether Death nor Life were in Roland's future, and he is consumed by the Tower...

I don't think the whole "life and death, not for you" meant Roland.

Death: Jack Mort.
Life: The return of Jake. The tower did represent covering his entire life though, but Stephen King really didn't know where he was going with it, he still had no ending.


Walter said, "death but not for you Gunslinger" - something similar.
And I could swear he said the same for life before he tossed it in the fire.

[Matt]

See, this is where I really got hooked on the story.

The idea of the Tower at the center of all realities really put the hooks into me. I think that is why I was a bit disappointed with the ending.

Also why I think the Tower may be different depending on who approaches it.

We saw Rolands Tower at the end of the book imo

[Wuducynn]

Yep, it was an awesome vision, pragmatically speaking I don't see how it effected his quest and have yet to see any evidence of it posted in this thread.

[zadok]

PS

Any reference I make to book 1 is the Revised edition. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

[Wuducynn]

PS

Any reference I make to book 1 is the Revised edition. Sorry if that caused any confusion.

You didn't. My assumption is always that you're talking about the revised.

[Matt]

Yep, it was an awesome vision, pragmatically speaking I don't see how it effected his quest and have yet to see any evidence of it posted in this thread.

I'm not sure it did :beat:

So what does that mean? The conversation was not necessary to the quest, meaning he didn't really need to catch the man in black, meaning he didn't have to let Jake fall.

It just reinforces the idea to me that when Roland let Jake fall, Walter was like..."oh man, here you go again you dumb fucking bastard" :lol:

[Wuducynn]

I'm not sure it did :beat:

So what does that mean? The conversation was not necessary to the quest, meaning he didn't really need to catch the man in black, meaning he didn't have to let Jake fall.

It just reinforces the idea to me that when Roland let Jake fall, Walter was like..."oh man, here you go again you dumb fucking bastard" :lol:

Yep, thats basically where I was going with it...and knowing Walter he probably did think something along those lines. I think Walter had him believing that in order to reach the Tower he had to be caught. The vision was something Walter (and Los' probably) did to see if it would blow his mind.

[TerribleT]

Yep, it was an awesome vision, pragmatically speaking I don't see how it effected his quest and have yet to see any evidence of it posted in this thread.

I'm not sure it did :beat:

So what does that mean? The conversation was not necessary to the quest, meaning he didn't really need to catch the man in black, meaning he didn't have to let Jake fall.

It just reinforces the idea to me that when Roland let Jake fall, Walter was like..."oh man, here you go again you dumb fucking bastard" :lol:

Now wait a minute, are we discussing the conversationn, or the vision. Because if we're talkiing about the conversation, it had a lot to do with the quest. That's where Walter tells Roland that there's never been a mind like his, indicating that he was the only one capable of the task. It's also where Walter reads Roland's fortune witht he strange deck of tarot cards, and describes his special ability to "draw". The conversation was ABSOLUTELY necessary to the quest. The vision, maybe not so much.

[Matt]

I was thinking we were talking about the "size" vision.

[Wuducynn]

The topic of the thread is the vision.

[To The Dark Tower Came]

Roland spends a large amount of time in The Gunslinger and the next six books ignoring messages to him, subliminal and overt. Well less ignore than ascribing to them a narrow interpretation to align them with him attaining the Tower.

[Wuducynn]

What could have he done with the information in the vision at the end of The Gunslinger that would have helped him in his quest? I mean, its all very interesting and cosmic, but as far as directing him in someway, it doesn't.

[Whitey Appleseed]

I dunno, doesn't the vision provide a kind of foreshadowing of what's to come...worlds being so close together that Roland can draw help from one into the other? Sticking your head out of the universe, kinda like in It, remember that scene? Maybe what's significant about is that when the man in black says, let there be light, more vision is added, additional stuff to see and it just keeps going. At some point Roland tries to jump him, misses, comes to, thinks, gawd to have to do that all over, but the man in black is there, tittering, saying Roland talks in his sleep, don't get so close to me.

The size thing. Distances have changed, later...and doesn't the continuation of the Tower prevent things from really torquing out of control? So perhaps the vision does contribute to Roland's quest. Unless he reaches the Tower, distances, size, will continue to stretch, change...wonder if this is related to the always present metaphor of the main character's head swelling? Ready to burst? Pop goes the weasel. The Tower is the nexus, the point where everything holds...Shrug...I dunno...looking at it again, original..does it matter?...but things are described as 'shrinking'...Roland is described as 'falling up'...I dunno, it boggles the mind.

[Whitey Appleseed]

Anyway, started Book II, The Drawing of the Three, and Roland does refer to the vision presented by Walter. When he's on the plane, or rather, when he's first looking through the door, through Eddie's eyes, looking at the world from 'thrice' as high as an eagle can fly.
Shrug.

[alinda]

wow, this is heavy stuff, I'll have to ponder on it for a while ....:orely:

[costanza]

I think the vision was Walter toying with Roland. Seeing how much Roland could take.

I could never have shown that vision to your father. He would've come back drooling.

I made your father, and then I broke him.
He also made Thomas and his father Roland in EotD. I don't think Thomas broke but maybe dad.

I came to your mother as Marten. She bent beneath me like a willow, but she never broke.

Nadine Cross broke right out of that window and onto the street below.

[Myrtok]

I've never even understood why Walter, from his own point of view, had that conversation with Roland and gives him the vision. I mean, he makes certain references to the fact that certain details are the will of his "Master," but how is Walter's master served by giving Roland such information and visions? I've been through the series multiple times, but I've never been able to understand why that entire scene takes place. Even if the information Roland is given isn't entirely helpful, it seems to be at least a case of Walter giving "aid and comfort" to his enemy by answering questions about the past and about the nature of the tower.

[BillyxRansom]

Seems to me like Walter is just giving Roland something to chew on, to hold him over for a while, because his need for answers was strong.

[Charyou Tree]

Yet Walter says the night was lengthened by his master. I don't think he was lying about that.

Oh I don't know.....time is funny here.....:scared:

[Charyou Tree]

I've never even understood why Walter, from his own point of view, had that conversation with Roland and gives him the vision. I mean, he makes certain references to the fact that certain details are the will of his "Master," but how is Walter's master served by giving Roland such information and visions? I've been through the series multiple times, but I've never been able to understand why that entire scene takes place. Even if the information Roland is given isn't entirely helpful, it seems to be at least a case of Walter giving "aid and comfort" to his enemy by answering questions about the past and about the nature of the tower.

The answer to that is easy.....Ka.