View Full Version : Rose Madder vs. Insomnia
Faddah Callahan
04-28-2012, 09:42 PM
So I noticed and read the thread about the New York Magazine's list of King books in order of not-so-greatness to greatness, and for some reason, I noticed that I tend to lump "Insomnia" and "Rose Madder" together. Not sure why. "Insomnia" is part of the "tie-in-the-Tower" mindset books, whereas "Rose" is part of the female-lead-gets-tossed-around-a-bit cycle (which appears to feature "Gerald's Game" and...uh, that one about the chick in the woods and baseball; I have read neither).
Ahem. Now that I've come to the conclusion that my position on shacking "Rose" up with "Insomnia" is an erroneous one, it is time to forcibly remove them from each other. A messy divorce is in order, and I want to know who comes out on top. I'm not sure why I stuck them together; perhaps I saw a similarity in the way that the books play with a dream world shadowing a waking one, and a way to take very "real" myths and apply them to King's own mythology, and to thrust an average person into such legendary circumstances...although one could make the argument that that refers to half King's output (what was the story with the "long boy?").
(Playing with the mythology line, maybe it's the Greek angle. I can't think of a story aside from those two that pulls such obvious figures--the minotaur and the three fates--from Aegean myth. Oh well.)
There was a time when I probably would have said that "Insomnia" was my favorite, being the manly man that I am I am. But I think that, in hindsight, I prefer the tight mythos that unfolds with "Rose Madder" rather than the flashier, but messier, "Insomnia"; lthough "Insomnia" wins for "ridiculous but catchy and undeniably King line." What could beat "Don't you go visit that pin-sticker man"?
Anyway, what say you? Is one better than the other? Or am I crazy for asking?
pathoftheturtle
04-29-2012, 10:59 AM
Well, you might have lumped them together just because they were published close to the same time. But Rose Madder is also a "tie-in-the-Tower" book, and furthermore happens to mention a tertiary character also mentioned in Insomnia. (Another character, secondary in Rose Madder is featured in Desperation.)
... "Rose" is part of the female-lead-gets-tossed-around-a-bit cycle (which appears to feature "Gerald's Game" and...uh, that one about the chick in the woods and baseball; I have read neither). Have you read Dolores Claiborne? it's the best.
Anyway, what say you? Is one better than the other? Or am I crazy for asking?Oh, Insomnia. Totally.
coupling them isn't really far-fetched, because both deal with feminist issues, and while Insomnia offers an attempt at balanced judgment, Rose Madder is as pronouncedly misandric as Full Dark, No Stars
CyberGhostface
04-29-2012, 11:46 AM
J/w, why do you think those two are misandric? I would say the latter is misanthropic if anything.
Also, Faddah, I highly recommend you read 'Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon'. It's a very short read but worth your time.
well yes, this is right, come to think of it - misanthropic in the sense that they are both misandric and misogynic: in many King's novels a man vs. woman controversy reveals that the man is so bad there's no other solution than killing him, and/or the woman is unable to find any other way out.
And Faddah: I second the recommendation; The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon is one of my absolute favorites.
I like both very much. Insomnia blew my mind when I read it. Read Rose Madder right after and was not disappointed. And I also read both without any prior knowledge of The Dark Tower, too.
I love Insomnia; got to reread Rose Madder (among other reasons, to see what path dislikes so much about it)
mtdman
04-29-2012, 11:02 PM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.
Merlin1958
04-30-2012, 12:40 AM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.
From this statement I take it that you have not read every SK book out there? In that capacity, truly, what makes you think you are fit to comment? Isn't that a bit of "Hubris" on your part? IMHO you need to have read ALL the mytho's in order to comment like this. To not have read certain volumes, especially DT related ones, is extremely pompous, but that is just IMHO and who am I really?
Take some stock, do your homework then, and only then put forth your "informed" opinion. That would be my suggestion, lame as it may be.
pathoftheturtle
04-30-2012, 09:20 AM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.Not strictly true, but still truly witty. :thumbsup:
mikeC
04-30-2012, 02:52 PM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.
When I first read this book I disliked it very much but I listened to the audio book last summer and I really liked it. Not sure if I was just not expecting much or that I'm older now or if it was b/c the narration was very good but I had a completely different reaction.
As far as lumping the 2, maybe b/c they have slight DT references that came out around the same time?
I lump it in the category of books Steve writes about art or paintings coming alive, Road Virus, Duma Key, stationary bike.
This is one of the few SK books I don't think I will ever re-visit.
pathoftheturtle
05-01-2012, 07:38 AM
Also, RM is one of the books that set up things for TDT that weren't used or mentioned again. <_< (Unless you count the mention "Forget about Insomnia" as implying inclusion of "forget about those other ones, too.")
Did anyone, like myself, read both without first reading or even knowing about The Dark Tower? Maybe that's why I enjoyed both these books so much, and most don't seem to have very fond things to say, especially about Rose Madder.
Empath of the White
05-02-2012, 04:19 PM
Insomnia for me. King handled a pretty sticky issue without preaching for one side or the other. I liked some of the references in Rose Madder, but what did it set up for the Tower?
mystima
05-03-2012, 05:11 PM
Rose Madder mentioned the city Lud but for the life of me can't remember what the other references are at the moment...have to go and reread that one again...I did like Rose Madder over Insomnia though.
mtdman
05-03-2012, 05:39 PM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.
From this statement I take it that you have not read every SK book out there? In that capacity, truly, what makes you think you are fit to comment? Isn't that a bit of "Hubris" on your part? IMHO you need to have read ALL the mytho's in order to comment like this. To not have read certain volumes, especially DT related ones, is extremely pompous, but that is just IMHO and who am I really?
Take some stock, do your homework then, and only then put forth your "informed" opinion. That would be my suggestion, lame as it may be.
It doesn't take an expert on all of King's works to recognize Insomnia as a bad book. That's not hubris, just my (apparently uninformed) opinion.
Brice
05-04-2012, 01:10 AM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
Just for Jean:
Jane Austen books....now THOSE are bad books. :P
thank you Brice. I will remember.
Brice
05-04-2012, 08:07 AM
:lol:
Uh-oh, sounds like a bear-threat.
mtdman
05-05-2012, 11:39 PM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
No personal offense here, but that's a pretty dumb statement. Why would you not think it was bad if you didn't enjoy it? Do you take that consideration on anything you don't enjoy? If you don't enjoy it, how can you think it's not bad? Isn't that a criteria for a thing being bad? SMH
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing and that the only pro-life character in the book is a crazy extremist wife beater. When his politics enter into his writing, it makes the writing bad. Just like in Under the Dome. I don't care about his political views, and I don't want to be fed them subliminally through his writing. Additionally, the events in the story are just weird, meandering, inconsequential nonsense. Even Roland thinks so, at least he refused to read the book.
Eli Wallach read the narration for the audio book, and it was fantastic narration. That's the only reason why I bothered to finish the thing.
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I loved the first half of Insomnia. "Nothing happens" is way off the mark. I was riveted. The second half was great too, but the first was amazing.
Merlin1958
05-06-2012, 07:32 AM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
No personal offense here, but that's a pretty dumb statement. Why would you not think it was bad if you didn't enjoy it? Do you take that consideration on anything you don't enjoy? If you don't enjoy it, how can you think it's not bad? Isn't that a criteria for a thing being bad? SMH
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing and that the only pro-life character in the book is a crazy extremist wife beater. When his politics enter into his writing, it makes the writing bad. Just like in Under the Dome. I don't care about his political views, and I don't want to be fed them subliminally through his writing. Additionally, the events in the story are just weird, meandering, inconsequential nonsense. Even Roland thinks so, at least he refused to read the book.
Eli Wallach read the narration for the audio book, and it was fantastic narration. That's the only reason why I bothered to finish the thing.
Well now, that IS a dumb statement, no offense intended. Just because the subject matter does not appeal to an individual's taste's does not automatically make it BAD. Your Roses may be another man's weeds!!!
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens.
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, of course, but I loved the first half of Insomnia. "Nothing happens" is way off the mark. I was riveted. The second half was great too, but the first was amazing.Yes. I didn't really care for the last quarter, with all the fuss, but I adored the first half.
Brice
05-06-2012, 10:45 AM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
No personal offense here, but that's a pretty dumb statement. Why would you not think it was bad if you didn't enjoy it? Do you take that consideration on anything you don't enjoy? If you don't enjoy it, how can you think it's not bad? Isn't that a criteria for a thing being bad? SMH
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing and that the only pro-life character in the book is a crazy extremist wife beater. When his politics enter into his writing, it makes the writing bad. Just like in Under the Dome. I don't care about his political views, and I don't want to be fed them subliminally through his writing. Additionally, the events in the story are just weird, meandering, inconsequential nonsense. Even Roland thinks so, at least he refused to read the book.
Eli Wallach read the narration for the audio book, and it was fantastic narration. That's the only reason why I bothered to finish the thing.
Well now, that IS a dumb statement, no offense intended. Just because the subject matter does not appeal to an individual's taste's does not automatically make it BAD. Your Roses may be another man's weeds!!!
This is pretty close to my thinking actually. When I think of writing as bad I strictly think in terms of badly written. A great story can be badly written. An example imo, is take Danielle Steele (please), now in fairness to her she does tell a good story for the type of story it is...and usually it is rather formulaic, but it's a formula that works for her. She does tell a good story though. Her writing...the structure of her stories leave much to be desired though. She is a good storyteller, but at least from what I've read a bad writer. Or going in another direction you can see a painting that may be hideous to your tastes, that in no way refects on the artists skill in rendering it. Basically what I'm getting at is that a story can be bad and the writing can be bad and it can just not be suited to your tastes and none of these are the same thing.
...and I took no offense. :)
pathoftheturtle
05-06-2012, 12:51 PM
Interesting indeed from a philosophical standpoint -- I use more than one standard, myself, separating what I know to be my personal taste from my attempts at objectivity, but honestly it's probably not genuinely possible for one to judge objectively, so ultimately it might be more reasonable to define both sets of opinions AS opinions. Meaning that it would be redundant to say "That's only how I feel about it." since everybody should be able to take that much for granted no matter what. -- yet this subject of literary criticism fundamentals probably should be carried on within its own thread if we're really so interested.
mtdman
05-07-2012, 05:00 PM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
No personal offense here, but that's a pretty dumb statement. Why would you not think it was bad if you didn't enjoy it? Do you take that consideration on anything you don't enjoy? If you don't enjoy it, how can you think it's not bad? Isn't that a criteria for a thing being bad? SMH
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing and that the only pro-life character in the book is a crazy extremist wife beater. When his politics enter into his writing, it makes the writing bad. Just like in Under the Dome. I don't care about his political views, and I don't want to be fed them subliminally through his writing. Additionally, the events in the story are just weird, meandering, inconsequential nonsense. Even Roland thinks so, at least he refused to read the book.
Eli Wallach read the narration for the audio book, and it was fantastic narration. That's the only reason why I bothered to finish the thing.
Well now, that IS a dumb statement, no offense intended. Just because the subject matter does not appeal to an individual's taste's does not automatically make it BAD. Your Roses may be another man's weeds!!!
Sure it does. I don't believe in relativism.
Brice
05-07-2012, 05:11 PM
How is it a bad book. I mean I can understand if you didn't like it at least on an intellectual level. Different books appeal to different people. I thought Insomnia was a wonderful book aesthetically, but realize it probably would not qualify as one of the greats in literature, but what makes you define it as a bad book? Or did you just mean you didn't like it. Sorry, it's just even if I read a book and don't enjoy it that's not enough to make me consider it a bad book.
No personal offense here, but that's a pretty dumb statement. Why would you not think it was bad if you didn't enjoy it? Do you take that consideration on anything you don't enjoy? If you don't enjoy it, how can you think it's not bad? Isn't that a criteria for a thing being bad? SMH
Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing and that the only pro-life character in the book is a crazy extremist wife beater. When his politics enter into his writing, it makes the writing bad. Just like in Under the Dome. I don't care about his political views, and I don't want to be fed them subliminally through his writing. Additionally, the events in the story are just weird, meandering, inconsequential nonsense. Even Roland thinks so, at least he refused to read the book.
Eli Wallach read the narration for the audio book, and it was fantastic narration. That's the only reason why I bothered to finish the thing.
Well now, that IS a dumb statement, no offense intended. Just because the subject matter does not appeal to an individual's taste's does not automatically make it BAD. Your Roses may be another man's weeds!!!
Sure it does. I don't believe in relativism.
Interesting because if you don't believe in relativism at all then it kind of implies that you believe in absolutism...that there is one correct view which should (if that is the case) make for some extremely exciting and stimulating conversation for you since you either 1) must feel you have that one correct view or 2) that someone else does and you're just trying to track it down.
To my thinking absolutism is not just dumb, but absurd and on matters of opinion and aesthetic illogical.
pathoftheturtle
05-08-2012, 07:36 AM
If SK's politics are bad then I must be plain evil.
Brice
05-08-2012, 11:01 AM
Oh, you certainly are. :P
pathoftheturtle
05-08-2012, 01:39 PM
If artists can't express their values, then who can? If you can't teach your beliefs about society with art, then what can you teach them with?
Brice
05-08-2012, 05:27 PM
Beliefs are intended to be locked away in the darkest parts of your heart forever. :P
Yes, the word intended was intentional. ;)
mtdman
05-08-2012, 05:47 PM
1) must feel you have that one correct view.
Why would I believe my view was incorrect?
If artists can't express their values, then who can? If you can't teach your beliefs about society with art, then what can you teach them with?
I don't buy fiction novels to be 'taught' about the author's beliefs. I buy them to be entertained. That is directly affected by the author's desire to 'teach me' about his values and beliefs. If he wants to 'teach' his values, he can do it in a book of philosophy, keep it out of the fiction.
If SK's politics are bad then I must be plain evil.
Merlin1958
05-08-2012, 06:05 PM
1) must feel you have that one correct view.
Why would I believe my view was incorrect?
If artists can't express their values, then who can? If you can't teach your beliefs about society with art, then what can you teach them with?
I don't buy fiction novels to be 'taught' about the author's beliefs. I buy them to be entertained. That is directly affected by the author's desire to 'teach me' about his values and beliefs. If he wants to 'teach' his values, he can do it in a book of philosophy, keep it out of the fiction.
If SK's politics are bad then I must be plain evil.
I take it that you boycotted "Avatar"?
Brice
05-09-2012, 04:03 AM
1) must feel you have that one correct view.
Why would I believe my view was incorrect?
Well, because if you do believe that you have the one correct view that is simply mathematically improbable. If you think other views are not correct why would you bother with reading or listening to them at all? ....as you are now.
on the other hand, if you think your own view is not correct, how did it become your view to begin with?
pathoftheturtle
05-09-2012, 05:03 AM
Yeah: screw probability. I'm certainly not going to rule out any chance that someone's moral view is absolutely correct until I've heard more of his whole argument.
First we give him a fair trial, then we hang him. :P
But seriously I believe we ought to move this to another thread; if we really want to stick with King as prime example, then perhaps to Under the Dome discussion.
Unfortunately, getting this one back on topic might require me to re-read Insomnia and Rose Madder. :arg: Like I come here to get homework. sigh
How about just this:
... Insomnia was boring. Half the book nothing happens. The other half of the book is King trying to convince us abortion isn't a bad thing...You're wrong. That's just a simplistic misinterpretation of the text.
P.S. -- Is this...
...
If SK's politics are bad then I must be plain evil.... supposed to mean, "no comment"?
Brice
05-09-2012, 05:05 AM
on the other hand, if you think your own view is not correct, how did it become your view to begin with?
I'll PM you to keep us from getting furthur off topic. :)
Heather19
05-09-2012, 05:28 AM
Never read Rose Madder but anything is better than Insomnia.
I completely agree. And in my opinion I don't recall Rose Madder as being much better. Insomnia is bottom of the list for me and Rose is down near there too. One day I'll have to try to give them both another shot.
Brice
05-09-2012, 05:31 AM
Today is one day, Heather. :)
jhanic
05-09-2012, 06:44 AM
I have always believed Rose Madder would have been much better if King had ignored the fantasy portion of the story and given us strictly a suspense novel in which Norman looks for, then finds, Rose, and then goes from there. I found the fantasy portion of the story is what really kind of ruined it for me.
John
mattgreenbean
05-09-2012, 07:43 AM
Haven't gotten to Rose yet, only because I've paced myself over the years, but I started with Insomnia and have enjoyed most King's stuff. That says something of the book, that it had to be good to get me hooked. We like his writing because it's easy to read, super detailed, good characters, and the right amount of supernatural. Just saying.
Faddah Callahan
05-09-2012, 08:42 PM
J/w, why do you think those two are misandric? I would say the latter is misanthropic if anything.
Also, Faddah, I highly recommend you read 'Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon'. It's a very short read but worth your time.
Ho snap! You're still around too, eh? Assuming there's but one CyberGhostFace...
I have been meaning to get through the misanthropic/misogynistic King books. I actually don't mind King when he writes about things that are grounded in a bit more real-worldy situations, and it seems that those books--since he's trying his damndest to write convincing female characters, as opposed to alcoholic writers--are my best bet.
Faddah Callahan
05-09-2012, 08:44 PM
I have always believed Rose Madder would have been much better if King had ignored the fantasy portion of the story and given us strictly a suspense novel in which Norman looks for, then finds, Rose, and then goes from there. I found the fantasy portion of the story is what really kind of ruined it for me.
John
I wonder if one could read "Rose Madder" in a "Turn of the Screw" kinda way; that is, ignoring the supernatural elements as such, and instead, viewing them in a psychological light...or perhaps a metaphorical light would be more appropriate in this case...
I personally think this would subtract greatly from the books
Faddah Callahan
05-10-2012, 08:58 AM
Well, I just meant Rose Madder, I didn't mean ALL King's books. In quite a few of them, the supernatural IS the point (heh. Without that, one could read "The Gunslinger"--the first one at least--as Jake's dying dream, and assume the entire thing was a story about a boy being hit by a car. Hmm. I wonder if anyone's said that before?). I just meant that it might be interesting to look at "Rose Madder" that way, since, as I recall, the supernatural elements are so mythological and metaphorical...
it's just that I thoroughly hate it when literature goes metaphorical, especially if the metaphores are of this "none of this really happened" origin. I remember posting somewhere (at .net, I think) that the worst ending I could think of was Roland proving to be a cop who had gone mad and shot a dozen people on the streets of LA, and now is sitting in a straightjacket, delirious. (so yes, anyone has said that before, at least something like that)
Faddah Callahan
05-10-2012, 09:00 PM
When it's done right, it can be quite good...when it's done wrong, it can oh-so-wrong...
hear, hear! though, of course, "when it's done right, it can be quite good" is an absolute truth, universally applicable! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_original.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_original.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/bear_original.gif
mtdman
05-18-2012, 06:33 PM
I take it that you boycotted "Avatar"?
I didn't boycott it but I have never seen it and have no desire to see it.
I just finished listening to Rose Madder today, and I have to say I was right. Much better book than Insomnia, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. Even before the supernatural stuff began, I really got into the story of Rose and Howard. Plus the narrators were great, King did the Howard parts and captured his creepiness and craziness perfectly. Sometimes I think King is putting a little bit of himself into those characters. Overall a great book and far better than Insomnia.
BROWNINGS CHILDE
05-18-2012, 07:21 PM
Nothing that SK has written, has been bad writing IMO. I hated Lisey's Story, but it was still good writing...even if it was bad gunky.
CyberGhostface
05-18-2012, 09:07 PM
it's just that I thoroughly hate it when literature goes metaphorical, especially if the metaphores are of this "none of this really happened" origin. I remember posting somewhere (at .net, I think) that the worst ending I could think of was Roland proving to be a cop who had gone mad and shot a dozen people on the streets of LA, and now is sitting in a straightjacket, delirious. (so yes, anyone has said that before, at least something like that)
Funny you mention that as Stephen King said that's the type of ending he would have written if he did Lost.
jhanic
05-19-2012, 03:30 AM
[
I just finished listening to Rose Madder today, and I have to say I was right. Much better book than Insomnia, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. Even before the supernatural stuff began, I really got into the story of Rose and Howard. Plus the narrators were great, King did the Howard parts and captured his creepiness and craziness perfectly. Sometimes I think King is putting a little bit of himself into those characters. Overall a great book and far better than Insomnia.
Don't you mean Norman? He's one of King's "best" bad guys.
John
divemaster
05-20-2012, 12:57 AM
I mostly agree with mtdman's assessment. I did not like Insomnia at all. And I read it again last year to see if it got better once I was more familiar with all the Dark Tower tie-ins. Nope.
I've read Rose Madder once and enjoyed it. Certainly one I would like to read again.
And for what it's worth, I freakin LOVED Avatar. The IMAX 3-D blew me away.
It has been years since I read either book, but Rose Madder I really enjoyed, while Insomnia put me to sleep...
sk
Really don't understand the dislike for Insomnia. It's such a beautifully written, thoughtful novel.
Brice
05-20-2012, 09:37 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed both books. :)
mtdman
05-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Really don't understand the dislike for Insomnia. It's such a beautifully written, thoughtful novel.
That made me lol. Thanks.
more grounds for a hearty laugh: I am totally with pablo as far as Insomnia is concerned
And I was just listening to the recent Lilja podcast and they were talking about the possible film or miniseries of Insomnia. I agree with what was said by the director guy who wanted to adapt it (forgetting his name) - it's a very surreal novel. I loved it. I should really re-read it, but as always there's just so much yet unread.
beam*seeker
05-22-2012, 09:04 AM
Not getting all the hate for Insomnia. I read it stand alone before the DT series and it was one of my favorite books. The fact that there is a tie in was just bonus. I was not that into Rose Madder. Maybe I should try again with the thought that the supernatural parts are metaphorical? I don't know if I can get through it again though. For me it wasn't so much of the fantastical being the turn off as the cliche of the abused woman.
mtdman
05-22-2012, 07:50 PM
more grounds for a hearty laugh: I am totally with pablo as far as Insomnia is concerned
Sorry the joke is only funny the first time.
And to whoever 'negged' me because I listened to the audio version, if it makes you feel better to do that then have at it. 90% of all of King's work that I've consumed has come through audio books, many read by the author himself. I get to listen to audio books all day as I work, and I've got no problems with it. Makes my job and my day that much better.
I can tell you one thing for sure, had I started out actually reading insomnia I'd never get past the first 2 chapters. Eli Wallach's narration was the only reason I held out and kept listening. Even that couldn't save it. As for Rose Madder, the dual narration with King reading the villain's parts was excellent. Who wouldn't want to hear King read his own works and his characterizations of his own characters?
Brice
05-23-2012, 01:33 AM
Hmmm.... lots of folks around here do the audio book thing so I doubt it was that. Maybe it's because you seem to enjoy mocking people you don't know for their sincere opinions? ...nah, couldn't be that!
It wasn't me btw...I don't bother with giving negative reputation. I'd rather just say what I think. :)
mtdman
05-27-2012, 09:32 PM
Hmmm.... lots of folks around here do the audio book thing so I doubt it was that. Maybe it's because you seem to enjoy mocking people you don't know for their sincere opinions? ...nah, couldn't be that!
It wasn't me btw...I don't bother with giving negative reputation. I'd rather just say what I think. :)
I'd have a lot more respect for someone if they called me out for that if that's how they felt, than making some nonsense comment about reading is fundamental. If someone has a problem with my opinions then come out and say it, don't cower behind some anonymous reputation system.
If anything, like I wrote, the audio version and the narrator made that book about twice as appealing than it would have been had I actually read it.
Brice
05-27-2012, 11:06 PM
No worries! I don't cower and I always say what I feel. And though I must concede the overwhelming respect shown in your dismisive post regarding Pablo's statement I personally don't much care if you respect or disrespect me. It matters none, for the reason that I don't hold much regard for people who go around senselessly and pointlessly being unpleasant and unkind. I don't/won't mock your opinions and viewpoint BECAUSE I don't find it funny; I find it kinda' sad and pathetic.
It IS however in fact absurd to state that you enjoyed a reading of a book more than you would enjoy reading the book yourself (when you haven't) unless of course you just don't like reading. The two experiences are vastly different and yield equally, but differing experiences. It's kinda' akin to saying any book is superior to another where you didn't actually read the books involved.
FWIW: I do LOVE King reading any of his stories. I love audiobooks and books themselves, but they are vastly differing experiences just as even if a movie follows a book precisely (It rarely happens) the experience is always very different.
Merlin1958
05-28-2012, 12:39 AM
FWIW, From what I understand if, you had been "Negged" as you say, you would know who did it. That's the program. Since you don't know, maybe it was just someone trying to "Open you up" a bit. I can't say either way, but maybe some reflection is in order as Brice has intimated? Then again, I'm just the "Haven Whore", what do I know?
mtdman
05-28-2012, 07:16 AM
It IS however in fact absurd to state that you enjoyed a reading of a book more than you would enjoy reading the book yourself (when you haven't) unless of course you just don't like reading. The two experiences are vastly different and yield equally, but differing experiences. It's kinda' akin to saying any book is superior to another where you didn't actually read the books involved.
FWIW: I do LOVE King reading any of his stories. I love audiobooks and books themselves, but they are vastly differing experiences just as even if a movie follows a book precisely (It rarely happens) the experience is always very different.
I like to read, but I find that the audio book versions are far more entertaining. Part of it is in the way the narrator reads, the voices they use, how they create each character and make them different, the way they read various parts. When it comes to King reading his own stories, I'm always fascinated to hear what he does. The voices he creates, the way he reads, is vastly different from what I'd put in my own head and very entertaining. Ron McClarty's reading of Salem's Lot is part of the reason why I dig that book so much. He does a great job. On the other hand, the dunce that read Under the Dome was horrible, and it's part of the reason why I dislike that book. Other than the fact that it sucked.
My point when it comes to Insomnia is, I kept listening because it was Eli Wallach doing the reading, because his narration kept me at least partially interested. Had I read that book myself, I'd have given up becasue imo the prose itself isn't interesting enough to hold me in that book.
That's why when someone wrote it was 'beautifully written' I actually did laugh out loud. I couldn't disagree more. It's so diametrically opposed to my experience I had to laugh. There's no disrespect or mocking in that, I just find it amusing. Even though it was a bad book, imo, I can find some positives in the book. Being 'beautifully written' is not one of them.
And Merlin, I can't see who left any reputation for me, just the comments. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself and call yourself names. What you do is for a good cause.
Merlin1958
05-28-2012, 12:03 PM
It IS however in fact absurd to state that you enjoyed a reading of a book more than you would enjoy reading the book yourself (when you haven't) unless of course you just don't like reading. The two experiences are vastly different and yield equally, but differing experiences. It's kinda' akin to saying any book is superior to another where you didn't actually read the books involved.
FWIW: I do LOVE King reading any of his stories. I love audiobooks and books themselves, but they are vastly differing experiences just as even if a movie follows a book precisely (It rarely happens) the experience is always very different.
I like to read, but I find that the audio book versions are far more entertaining. Part of it is in the way the narrator reads, the voices they use, how they create each character and make them different, the way they read various parts. When it comes to King reading his own stories, I'm always fascinated to hear what he does. The voices he creates, the way he reads, is vastly different from what I'd put in my own head and very entertaining. Ron McClarty's reading of Salem's Lot is part of the reason why I dig that book so much. He does a great job. On the other hand, the dunce that read Under the Dome was horrible, and it's part of the reason why I dislike that book. Other than the fact that it sucked.
My point when it comes to Insomnia is, I kept listening because it was Eli Wallach doing the reading, because his narration kept me at least partially interested. Had I read that book myself, I'd have given up becasue imo the prose itself isn't interesting enough to hold me in that book.
That's why when someone wrote it was 'beautifully written' I actually did laugh out loud. I couldn't disagree more. It's so diametrically opposed to my experience I had to laugh. There's no disrespect or mocking in that, I just find it amusing. Even though it was a bad book, imo, I can find some positives in the book. Being 'beautifully written' is not one of them.
And Merlin, I can't see who left any reputation for me, just the comments. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself and call yourself names. What you do is for a good cause.
Yeah, it is a good cause, and the name calling helps donations!! LOL It's all in good fun. You make a very good point regarding audio I hadn't really considered. Me? I enjoy reading the book, but I can see your side as well. To each his own, right? I may give both a shot though.
Brice
05-28-2012, 03:29 PM
Could someone leave me negative reputation please? I want to see if I can find where it's supposed to tell you who left it. It is supposed to say that somewhere.
mtdman
05-28-2012, 04:56 PM
I can't see who left the positive either.
Brice
05-28-2012, 05:14 PM
Positive you shouldn't be able to see...negative you should. Go ahead and leave me negative if you would so I can see what's going on, please?
mtdman
05-28-2012, 05:35 PM
Positive you shouldn't be able to see...negative you should. Go ahead and leave me negative if you would so I can see what's going on, please?
I can't I have to spread it around before leaving it for you again.
Brice
05-28-2012, 05:39 PM
Oh, so you already left me negative reputation. LOL
Strange cause it never showed up at all. :orely:
mtdman
05-28-2012, 05:46 PM
I don't remember what I left for you, I think it was something in this thread.
Brice
05-28-2012, 05:52 PM
No worries! Done is done!
Brice, I've tried, but I too have to spread some around. Never can rep anyone these days, the motherfucking program is never sated.
Brice
05-29-2012, 05:05 AM
It is sad when you can't get anyone to give you a bad reputation. lol
kirin
06-05-2012, 01:36 PM
In many ways liseys story reminded me of rose madder, i remember reading a bunch of king books one after another i did insomnia, rose madder, geralds game, bag of bones, dreamcatcher,girl who loved tom Gordon and liseys story. One after another and found tom Gordon to be a short interesting read. I think i find rose and lisey similar because the alternate worlds in each felt like they could be the same world as one another
What I enjoyed most of all in Rose Madder were the non-supernatural portions. The supernatural was really limited anyway, I think. So as a pure psychological thriller-type novel, I loved it.
WeDealInLead
07-14-2012, 06:49 PM
Who from Desperation was in Rose Madder and what's the Insomnia connection? I read Rose Madder a long time ago and finished Desperation literally 5 minutes ago and I still can't remember.
Heather19
07-14-2012, 06:52 PM
The girl with the crazy hair (sorry, blanking on her name) was one of the woman in the shelter in Rose Madder I believe.
WeDealInLead
07-14-2012, 06:57 PM
Thanks. It's Cynthia. I just Googled for "Rose Madder Desperation" and the first hit was Wiki. I love you The Internets.
Voted for Insomnia. It's a good one and I don't get why people thought it was slow. My main complaint would be about dialogue, some if it felt phony.
Maturins_Daughter
07-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Brice, I'd give you a bad reputation if you'd let me :evil:
I liked both books for different reasons. Just like I enjoy a multitude of different books, genres, authors. For those books that I don't care for, I just don't read them again.
Having said that, I believe it's time for me to experience Insomnia anew.
John Blaze
07-14-2012, 09:41 PM
I've never had the option to give bad rep, I figured it was something only mods could do.
That being said, I loved both books and although not his best I really don't think either of them I could consider bad.
Brice
07-24-2012, 02:30 PM
Brice, I'd give you a bad reputation if you'd let me :evil:
Anytime! :lol:
Roland of Gilead 33
06-28-2013, 09:38 PM
i put insommina and apologies on my bad spelling. but i also loved Rose Madder. both films if they are ever made that is, well when i 1st read them i did think back than i wonder how this will be filmed? i read them when they 1st came out. and with CGI and shit like that. it prolly would be easier. but still i wonder just not as much. either way they are both books i just love.
pathoftheturtle
06-29-2013, 07:02 AM
i put insommina and apologies on my bad spelling.Wasn't even just typing out this short apology actually more difficult than simply looking up? The correct spelling of Insomnia is right in the thread title.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3445_162-57590744/web-extra-stephen-king-on-storytelling/
"I have one book that I really sort of regret. It's called 'Rose Madder,' and I had a terrific idea going into that book. And it just kind of shriveled on me, and I kept pushing. And I published the book and it didn't get very good reviews. And it didn't deserve to get good reviews, because it felt like something that had been shoved through the door."
:cry:
Roland of Gilead 33
06-30-2013, 08:33 PM
your right of course, but i was just to lazy to pay attention. and really did that bad back than? i don't really remember how well it did. but either way it's i think a great book. i'm really curious that if it ever does get made into a film i wonder HOW in the hell would it even be made? i think it's another
one of his like it or hate it books. some people love it. like i do. and some say it's one of his worst. apparently he thinks it's one of his worst. well i've read it 2 or 3 times so that's one i did enjoy reading. even though it's a WTF story that doesn't bother me one single bit.
pathoftheturtle
07-01-2013, 02:05 AM
What constitutes laziness is subjective, and human behavior is often pretty inexplicable. What is it that compels those who don't care to waste any of their energy to bother turning on a computer and sharing their opinions at all?
As for Stephen King's assessment of Rose Madder, he sadly was quite correct in it, of course. A real miscarriage of a book. So glad he carried on, tried again, and created more works later of true value.
Well it hurts me, because I'm a big fan of Rose Madder and for the life of me I don't get why King and some of the fans dislike this novelbb
thegunslinger41
07-01-2013, 05:47 AM
Crap I was thinking "Hearts in Atlantis" instead of Insomnia when I voted. Actually, I liked both Insomnia and Rose Madder ALOT!!! Rose Madder was just crazy psychotic :)
ChristineB
07-01-2013, 08:10 AM
It was hard to pick one or the other for me.
I love both these books pretty equally, for different reasons of course.
Roland of Gilead 33
07-01-2013, 09:10 PM
really for me there aren't that many of his books that i won't ever read again. and i have re-read both of them and i love both of them as well. the only downside was when i 1st read it when it 1st came out way back in (1994) was that it reeked of cigerettes. it was like someone dumped the entire book into an ashtry. thankfully i never had to read from that book ever again. i have since obtained the hardback book of it on my own.
for me one of his books i won't ever read again is Carrie. i thought that book was terrible. i know many like it but i don't. once is enough. anyways
sometimes i do feel like being lazy. and honestly when i was typing that my mind was somewhere else. i was listening to some music so i wasn't thinking at all about the title of the book being at the top of the page. oh well. i do recall when i 1st read both of the books i went what the fuck on both of them. Rose Madder kinda is a bit like either an Outer Limits episdode either the remake of it or the original series. take your pick.
or a twlight zone episode had it been made for say HBO or showtime.
Stebbins
07-02-2013, 07:28 PM
Is this poll to determine which one is worse? I haven't read Rose Madder yet, but Insomnia was the worst work of King I have ever read.
RoG33: really? hating on Carrie, come onnn. I put Carrie off until this summer because I thought I would hate it, but I was pleasantly surprised. The prose is very lean for King; it's hungry and succinct. There are also quite a few coming-of-age and high school insights in his first published novel.
Roland of Gilead 33
07-02-2013, 10:10 PM
well i grew up with the original film. and i had really high expectations for it. and it's just one of his books that is just a miss for me. i've talked to other people online and off that also thought it wasn't one of his best. don't get me wrong i'm grateful for it cause we have his books to read because of it.
but it's just a miss for me. i love his writing but i didn't think it was that great in Carrie. i'd rather read Salem's Lot which is a LOT better written book.
but to each their own i guess. as for this poll no i don't think it's which one is worst. it's i think a discussion on which one you prefer.
some folks here enjoyed both and some prefer one over the other. me i enjoyed both of them. i don't like ALL of SK books. but most of the ones i've read i have liked.
RoG33: really? hating on Carrie, come onnn. I put Carrie off until this summer because I thought I would hate it, but I was pleasantly surprised. The prose is very lean for King; it's hungry and succinct. There are also quite a few coming-of-age and high school insights in his first published novel.Carrie truly is a masterpiece.
I don't lose hope that one day you will appreciate Insomnia... and Wolves, of course.
Roland of Gilead 33
07-03-2013, 11:08 PM
see for me i don't think it is, but to each their own my friend. and i haven't finished reading Calla yet. the reason i stopped reading? well that's easy i got burnt out by DT he he. from reading W&G and part of Calla i got burnt out. so it wasn't cause i thought it was bad. there are just some books that i force myself to finish and Carrie was one of them. but it wasn't as bad as "The girl who loved tom gordon' that one i had to force myself to finish just to say i read it. if not to anyone at least to myself. i was able to finish it thank god. but dear god was i bored out of my mind.
the regulators was another bad one but at least with that one i was able to get through it faster than Tom Gordon.
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