Sesame Street Will Kill Your Kids

[Jimmy]

Excerpted from NY Times.com

By VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN
Published: November 18, 2007

Sunny days! The earliest episodes of “Sesame Street” are available on digital video! Break out some Keebler products, fire up the DVD player and prepare for the exquisite pleasure-pain of top-shelf nostalgia.

Just don’t bring the children. According to an earnest warning on Volumes 1 and 2, “Sesame Street: Old School” is adults-only: “These early ‘Sesame Street’ episodes are intended for grown-ups, and may not suit the needs of today’s preschool child.”

We've been asked to protect our children from Sesame Street. :cry:

The rest of the article can be found here -

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/magazine/18wwln-medium-t.html

I am dumbfounded by modern cultures' need to make everything politically correct and dumbed down to the point where nothing makes sense anymore.

I recently read. heh, that reading for pleasure in America is at one of it's lowest levels in decades. That scares me. My children are either going to rule the world with their superintelligence, or they'll be stoned to death by the other kids on the playground for daring to say that the earth isn't flat.

If the mods feel the need to condense this thread with my Santa Claus thread please go right ahead and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

This thread has been brought to you by the letters "B" and "S" and by the number "0."

[Daghain]

Ah, you have to register to see it. But I can venture a guess. :)

I am sooo sick of this stupid need to bubble-wrap the world. Kids are going to grow up to be a bunch of wussies, and dumb ones at that, if this keeps up. :angry:

[TerribleT]

The thing that really scares me is that our entire society is now being geared towards those who are "cognitively disdvantaged", rather than trying to elevate everyone to a higher level. If you strive for more, you are considered maladjusted, and if you're a bum you're considered normal and healthy.

[Jorge]

I'd FORCE my kids to watch it. Hell, if I had kids, I'd wait until they were 7 or 8, then drive them out into the woods and make them find their way back home. If they can make it, they've passed the test and can be admitted into the family as a full-time member. :P

[Jimmy]

The article for those without nytimes.com accounts.

Excerpted from NY Times.com

By VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN
Published: November 18, 2007

Sunny days! The earliest episodes of “Sesame Street” are available on digital video! Break out some Keebler products, fire up the DVD player and prepare for the exquisite pleasure-pain of top-shelf nostalgia.

Just don’t bring the children. According to an earnest warning on Volumes 1 and 2, “Sesame Street: Old School” is adults-only: “These early ‘Sesame Street’ episodes are intended for grown-ups, and may not suit the needs of today’s preschool child.”

Say what? At a recent all-ages home screening, a hush fell over the room. “What did they do to us?” asked one Gen-X mother of two, finally. The show rolled, and the sweet trauma came flooding back. What they did to us was hard-core. Man, was that scene rough. The masonry on the dingy brownstone at 123 Sesame Street, where the closeted Ernie and Bert shared a dismal basement apartment, was deteriorating. Cookie Monster was on a fast track to diabetes. Oscar’s depression was untreated. Prozacky Elmo didn’t exist.

Nothing in the children’s entertainment of today, candy-colored animation hopped up on computer tricks, can prepare young or old for this frightening glimpse of simpler times. Back then — as on the very first episode, which aired on PBS Nov. 10, 1969 — a pretty, lonely girl like Sally might find herself befriended by an older male stranger who held her hand and took her home. Granted, Gordon just wanted Sally to meet his wife and have some milk and cookies, but . . . well, he could have wanted anything. As it was, he fed her milk and cookies. The milk looks dangerously whole.

Live-action cows also charge the 1969 screen — cows eating common grass, not grain improved with hormones. Cows are milked by plain old farmers, who use their unsanitary hands and fill one bucket at a time. Elsewhere, two brothers risk concussion while whaling on each other with allergenic feather pillows. Overweight layabouts, lacking touch-screen iPods and headphones, jockey for airtime with their deafening transistor radios. And one of those radios plays a late-’60s news report — something about a “senior American official” and “two billion in credit over the next five years” — that conjures a bleak economic climate, with war debt and stagflation in the offing.

The old “Sesame Street” is not for the faint of heart, and certainly not for softies born since 1998, when the chipper “Elmo’s World” started. Anyone who considers bull markets normal, extracurricular activities sacrosanct and New York a tidy, governable place — well, the original “Sesame Street” might hurt your feelings.

I asked Carol-Lynn Parente, the executive producer of “Sesame Street,” how exactly the first episodes were unsuitable for toddlers in 2007. She told me about Alistair Cookie and the parody “Monsterpiece Theater.” Alistair Cookie, played by Cookie Monster, used to appear with a pipe, which he later gobbled. According to Parente, “That modeled the wrong behavior” — smoking, eating pipes — “so we reshot those scenes without the pipe, and then we dropped the parody altogether.”

Which brought Parente to a feature of “Sesame Street” that had not been reconstructed: the chronically mood-disordered Oscar the Grouch. On the first episode, Oscar seems irredeemably miserable — hypersensitive, sarcastic, misanthropic. (Bert, too, is described as grouchy; none of the characters, in fact, is especially sunshiney except maybe Ernie, who also seems slow.) “We might not be able to create a character like Oscar now,” she said.

Snuffleupagus is visible only to Big Bird; since 1985, all the characters can see him, as Big Bird’s old protestations that he was not hallucinating came to seem a little creepy, not to mention somewhat strained. As for Cookie Monster, he can be seen in the old-school episodes in his former inglorious incarnation: a blue, googly-eyed cookievore with a signature gobble (“om nom nom nom”). Originally designed by Jim Henson for use in commercials for General Foods International and Frito-Lay, Cookie Monster was never a righteous figure. His controversial conversion to a more diverse diet wouldn’t come until 2005, and in the early seasons he comes across a Child’s First Addict.

The biggest surprise of the early episodes is the rural — agrarian, even — sequences. Episode 1 spends a stoned time warp in the company of backlighted cows, while they mill around and chew cud. This pastoral scene rolls to an industrial voiceover explaining dairy farms, and the sleepy chords of Joe Raposo’s aimless masterpiece, “Hey Cow, I See You Now.” Chewing the grass so green/Making the milk/Waiting for milking time/Waiting for giving time/Mmmmm.

Oh, what’s that? Right, the trance of early “Sesame Street” and its country-time sequences. In spite of the show’s devotion to its “target child,” the “4-year-old inner-city black youngster” (as The New York Times explained in 1979), the first episodes join kids cavorting in amber waves of grain — black children, mostly, who must be pressed into service as the face of America’s farms uniquely on “Sesame Street.”

In East Harlem and Bedford-Stuyvesant in 1978, 95 percent of households with kids ages 2 to 5 watched “Sesame Street.” The figure was even higher in Washington. Nationwide, though, the number wasn’t much lower, and was largely determined by the whims of the PBS affiliates: 80 percent in houses with young children. The so-called inner city became anywhere that “Sesame Street” played, because the Children’s Television Workshop declared the inner city not a grim sociological reality but a full-color fantasy — an eccentric scene, framed by a box and far removed from real farmland and city streets alike.

The concept of the “inner city” — or “slums,” as The Times bluntly put it in its first review of “Sesame Street” — was therefore transformed into a kind of Xanadu on the show: a bright, no-clouds, clear-air place where people bopped around with monsters and didn’t worry too much about money, cleanliness or projecting false cheer. The Upper West Side, hardly a burned-out ghetto, was said to be the model.

People on “Sesame Street” had limited possibilities and fixed identities, and (the best part) you weren’t expected to change much. The harshness of existence was a given, and no one was proposing that numbers and letters would lead you “out” of your inner city to Elysian suburbs. Instead, “Sesame Street” suggested that learning might merely make our days more bearable, more interesting, funnier. It encouraged us, above all, to be nice to our neighbors and to cultivate the safer pleasures that take the edge off — taking baths, eating cookies, reading. Don’t tell the kids.

[Arthur Heath]

I read this article, though in another place. How absolutely ridiculous. Kids these days would chew this up and spit it out. There is SO MUCH DESENSITIZATION in pop-culture today. There worried about Bert and Ernie? LAUGHABLE! Kids deal with gay issues IN REAL LIFE EVERYDAY, with their parents! Cookie Monster is a diabetic? Yea, so is my 6 year old cousin, who can give HIMSELF necessary shots everyday.
Again, absolutely ridicules. The author of this article is a hyper conservative idiot.
Would I let my child watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre? No.... Would I let them watch Sesame Street, your damn straight.

[Jimmy]

The point of the story is not the writer's perspective, the point is that there's a warning label on the Sesame Street DVD.

I have to include the entire article, as well as the author and it's source to avoid legal ramifications for linking.

[Matt]

I seriously can't believe this! I watched those episodes as a kid

But I guess I could be considered pretty fucked up. :lol:

[Wuducynn]

Ah, you have to register to see it. But I can venture a guess. :)

I am sooo sick of this stupid need to bubble-wrap the world. Kids are going to grow up to be a bunch of wussies, and dumb ones at that, if this keeps up. :angry:

Speak it sister! SERIOUSLY. :angry:

http://www.texasartcat.com/misbehave1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Los_The_Red/fflyhog044br1.jpg

[Ruki]

so is burt still ernie's abusive gay husband?

[Jorge]

Of course Bert and Ernie weren't gay. They didn't even have moustaches. :rolleyes:

[William50]

I never watched that show. I found it boring......but know its ok. Just kidding!

[Daghain]

:thumbsup: BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

[OchrisO]

I grew up on Sesame Street and there's a whole lot of shit wrong with my generation and the kids they are raising. Maybe they are on to something. haha.

[Girlystevedave]

The problem with today's society is we are expecting cartoons, movies, celebrities, and athletes to raise our children for us. I was raised on tv. I was watching scary movies when I was about 8 or 9. I even saw nudity in movies. No, my parents weren't letting me watch porn or anything, but a bare breast wasn't a big deal. The reason why it wasn't a big deal was because I knew it was only a movie. Only fiction. Only entertainment. People are so fucked up to think Sesame Street may cause their children to eat too many cookies or maybe live in a garbage can one day. Maybe if people would step up and be real parents and talk to their children, they could actually be normal adults one day. But I'm sure it would be much easier to blame all the kid's failures on a PBS show.

[Wuducynn]

I grew up on Sesame Street and there's a whole lot of shit wrong with my generation and the kids they are raising. Maybe they are on to something. haha.

No, its just you.

[Bethany]

but you younger guys don't realize that we haven't watched the same show. the PC, dumbed down crap that comes on today is NOT sesame street. elmo can bite my butt and die. show of hands here--who remembers the "it's the plumber, i've come to fix the sink?" :rofl: now that's real entertainment.

[Wuducynn]

Watching Electric Company, Zoom and Mister Rogers is what drove me over the brink.

[Bethany]

one two three
four five
six seven
eight nine ten
eleven twe-eh-eh-ehlve!

[Wuducynn]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[Wuducynn]

Oh and we can't forget - 3-2-1 CONTACT!

[TerribleT]

Maybe if people would step up and be real parents and talk to their children, they could actually be normal adults one day.

AMEN!!!! Preach it!!!!!

[Matt]

I miss SchoolHouse Rock :(

[ZoNeSeeK]

Its always people with kids wanting to blame someone else or something else for anything that happens to their child. Censorship is so damn high because people refuse to take responsibility for themselves and their kids.

[fernandito]

I'd FORCE my kids to watch it. Hell, if I had kids, I'd wait until they were 7 or 8, then drive them out into the woods and make them find their way back home. If they can make it, they've passed the test and can be admitted into the family as a full-time member. :P

:rofl:



....wait, you're joking right? :unsure:

[Daghain]

I miss SchoolHouse Rock

Dude, it's out on DVD. Much fun to get drunk and sing along. :lol:

[Daghain]

Oh, and CK?

LOVED THIS!




http://www.texasartcat.com/misbehave1.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Los_The_Red/fflyhog044br1.jpg

[Wuducynn]

Thank you. One of my many motto's.. :harrier:

[Daghain]

I am a huge Firefly fan. :D

[Wuducynn]

And I'm a real life Browncoat.

[Daghain]

*SQUEE!!!*

[Wuducynn]

Not meaning "a fan of the series" browncoat, but as in someone who is part of a small army who actively fights against an oppressive, tyrannical government.

[Telynn]

I admit to having a huge crush on the blond guy on zoom.

[Daghain]

Not meaning "a fan of the series" browncoat, but as in someone who is part of a small army who actively fights against an oppressive, tyrannical government.

This makes me love you even more. :D

[Sai Joshua]

I think they ought to make kids watch episodes of the 3 stooges. That would make their fights so much more enjoyable to watch!

[Ruki]

i have no clue what zoom is. and i only watched sesame street when i was visiting my sister. there were some cartoons i watched but other than that i was more of a slasher film kinda toddler.

maybe the guy that wrote that crap is onto something though. you guys turned out to be weird spooky people because of sesame street and i'm a normal healthy person thanks to a combination of killer toys, redneck cannibals, and scooby doo.

[Daghain]

Anyone remember HR Puffinstuff? That is some seriously fukt up shit right there. :rofl:

[Wuducynn]

This makes me love you even more. :D

Thanks for that.. :huglove:

[Wuducynn]

I remember HR Puffinstuff...it reminds me of the Teletubbies in terms of trippy-ness. Speaking of Teletubbies, one of the best times I have been baked was watching that show..especially with the baby in the Sun and the robot vacuum cleaner The Nu Nu...I definitely came to a higher level of consiousness at that point.

[Daghain]

No, if you're going to watch something stoned (actually, it would probably help):

YouTube - H.R. Pufnstuf - full episode

[Wuducynn]

Nah, believe me. Teletubbies..all those wicked bright primary colors, and singing monkey-dolls with magic screens in their bellies, with a baby in the sun and a pet vacuum cleaner? Please. It is THE show to get royally baked watching.

[Daghain]

All I can say is DBF and I got all excited when we found HR Puffinstuff on Youtube. Then we started to watch.

Funny how your childhood perceptions can be horribly, horribly wrong. :lol:

DBF's quote: "WTF were our parents thinking letting us watch this? Didn't they know it was an LSD trip with stuffed animals?" :rofl:

[Wuducynn]

All I can say is DBF and I got all excited when we found HR Puffinstuff on Youtube. Then we started to watch.

Funny how your childhood perceptions can be horribly, horribly wrong. :lol:

DBF's quote: "WTF were our parents thinking letting us watch this? Didn't they know it was an LSD trip with stuffed animals?" :rofl:

If we didn't watch that then, we wouldn't be the folk that we are now...

[Daghain]

This is very true. But man, I must have been really naive as a small child. :lol:

[Wuducynn]

Well yeah. Weren't we all? :)

[Daghain]

No, not all of us. :D

[Katet]

You know, I've watched Teletubbies before but never stoned...something to remember next time I see it lol XD I've never seen HR Puffinstuff probably b/c I'm only 23 lol though I did just sit here and watch it and could totally see why kids would watch it...hell I just watched the whole thing myself XD

[Wuducynn]

There are/were non-naive small children? Hmmmmm, who are you thinking of? Mordred? Damien Thorn?

[Daghain]

Nope, DBF. The stories I could tell you....

[Wuducynn]

You know, I've watched Teletubbies before but never stoned...something to remember next time I see it lol XD I've never seen HR Puffinstuff probably b/c I'm only 23 lol though I did just sit here and watch it and could totally see why kids would watch it...hell I just watched the whole thing myself XD

Just curious "XD"? Is that your slogan? Or am I missing something on all the internets?

[Daghain]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=XD

[Wuducynn]

It's too late to click on your porn links Daghain dear...I'm about to head to bed..

[Daghain]

Your loss. XD

[Wuducynn]

Guess so XD...I like this..its the new code Alpha Foxtrot Charlie Romeo XD over and out.

[Daghain]

:lol:

[Katet]

It's kind of like a frustrated smilie like >< + :D = XD

[Katet]

Are you guys making fun of me? XD lol

[Jimmy]

The problem with today's society is we are expecting cartoons, movies, celebrities, and athletes to raise our children for us. I was raised on tv. I was watching scary movies when I was about 8 or 9. I even saw nudity in movies. No, my parents weren't letting me watch porn or anything, but a bare breast wasn't a big deal. The reason why it wasn't a big deal was because I knew it was only a movie. Only fiction. Only entertainment. People are so fucked up to think Sesame Street may cause their children to eat too many cookies or maybe live in a garbage can one day. Maybe if people would step up and be real parents and talk to their children, they could actually be normal adults one day. But I'm sure it would be much easier to blame all the kid's failures on a PBS show.

It's all connected to the destruction of the family ideal. Parents nowadays really can't spend a lot of time with their kids because they have to work to support them, or they don't have work and the homelife is skewed because of this.

So they expect someone else to do the job for them. They think, "Well I watched this show, so my kids can too." Without actually realizing the concepts of television have changed a lot since they were children. This is why we have teenagers walking around wearing "Scarface" clothing. I see them and just want to say, "Don't you realize he was a coke dealer? He's not a hero!" But I don't want to get killed so I keep my mouth shut.

Adults in the 21st century share the 70's/80's/90's mass family through television effect. I may not know your sister or brother, but we both remember that time that Fonzie jumped over the sharks, when Homer jumped Springfield Gorge and when that town sang a song about Jayne.

Well, maybe a few of us remember that last one. (Showing some Firefly love)

Kids of the 21st century won't have that when they become adults. The ones that can even tie their own shoes will be fewer and further between, and the rest, the children who aren't supposed to be "left behind" will kill the smarter ones and steal their shoes and then spend hours trying in vain to undo the knots, all while hitting the crack pipe.

[Wuducynn]

I see them and just want to say, "Don't you realize he was a coke dealer? He's not a hero!" .

Whats wrong with dealing coke? Not that it makes him a hero, but it also doesn't make him bad either.

[Matt]

Kids of the 21st century won't have that when they become adults. The ones that can even tie their own shoes will be fewer and further between, and the rest, the children who aren't supposed to be "left behind" will kill the smarter ones and steal their shoes and then spend hours trying in vain to undo the knots, all while hitting the crack pipe.

:lol:

This will happen.

My only change would be that they would keep a few of the shoe tying people around to actually tie the shoes.

I think his point about Scarface was that if you really watch the movie, he was a sad...sad individual that drove himself to madness and died for it.

Not really something to aspire too imo

[Jimmy]

My point about Scarface is this : He came to America, created a lot of crime, killed people and sold a highly addictve, killer drug to other people. He ruined his wife and then his sister, and then killed his best friend in the world. All due to greed, addiction and self-importance End movie.

What's wrong with dealing coke? Is that a trick question or just a question that answers itself?

[Wuducynn]

My point about Scarface is this : He came to America, created a lot of crime, killed people and sold a highly addictve, killer drug to other people. He ruined his wife and then his sister, and then killed his best friend in the world. All due to greed, addiction and self-importance End movie.

What's wrong with dealing coke? Is that a trick question or just a question that answers itself?

He was dirt poor and saw a product that he could make big, big money off of. If there wasn't a big war on trying to stop folks from using a substance that they want, then it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place would it? Look at the government making alcohol illegal during Prohibition, alcohol is a highly addictive drug that if mis-used can ruin lives. The war on that drug CAUSED the crime surrounding it. There was no alcohol associated crime before and after Prohibition.

[Jimmy]

He was dirt poor and saw a product that he could make big, big money off of. If there wasn't a big war on trying to stop folks from using a substance that they want, then it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place would it? Look at the government making alcohol illegal during Prohibition, alcohol is a highly addictive drug that if mis-used can ruin lives. The war on that drug CAUSED the crime surrounding it. There was no alcohol associated crime before and after Prohibition.

I agree with you completely that the war on drugs is one of the main reason for the violence and crime surrounding the selling of product. I'd even go so far as to say that it's my opinion that a great deal of the money goes to the American government who controls the drug trade. But I feel that drugs such as cocaine/crack, meth and heroin have no redeeming values, are highly dangerous and should not be legalized or decriminalized in any way, because I don't think the crime/violence levels would decrease by much if they were.

Because of the incredible amount of addiction these drugs provide, it's almost logical to assume that even if people could walk into the corner store and buy a vial or two, that they wouldn't spend more and more money on it until they were broke enough to consider robbery or murder to get more money, to get more coke/crack/meth/heroin. I almost feel that crime might increase because of lack of secrecy over the drugs' locations.

If a crackhead knew where several shipping boxes of crack were located at a store, what would stop them from robbing the store, stealing the crack and then reselling it back onto the street? We'd be back at square one.

[Jimmy]

Also, Montana was dirt poor, and once he had money, did he stop? No, he was addicted and greedy, nothing to respect in any way.

[Wuducynn]

Except Jimmy, cocaine, heroine/opium and marijuana were ALL legal up until the 20th century. There wasn't some kind of massive addiction problem until the war on drugs. For a long time you could go and pick up heroine and cocaine at your local drug store. Cocaine was one of the ingredients in Coca-Cola

[Wuducynn]

Making them legal means you're opening up the market to them, where they would be safer. They could be sold anywhere and your local drug store would have a lot more incentive to keep them safe than anyone on the black market would.

[Wuducynn]

Also, Montana was dirt poor, and once he had money, did he stop? No, he was addicted and greedy, nothing to respect in any way.

I agree he wasn't a hero. If you noticed I didn't say he was. More of a sad case in point that the drug war ruins lives.

[Jimmy]

Except Jimmy, cocaine, heroine/opium and marijuana were ALL legal up until the 20th century. There wasn't some kind of massive addiction problem until the war on drugs. For a long time you could go and pick up heroine and cocaine at your local drug store. Cocaine was one of the ingredients in Coca-Cola

I know all about this, you used to be able to order morphine out of the Sears catalogue. Some drugs were legal back then, but then again so was slavery and beating your wife. Some things must change with the times.

The modern American society is not the same as the pre-20th century American society in any way. Trying to compare the two is like comparing monkeys and rutebegas. We've changed in so many ways on so many levels that we probably could never, or should ever go back to that.

[Wuducynn]

Riiiight, the "oh things and folk were different back then so we could never go back to a freer society" argument, speaking of things heard before. The only thing different nowadays is our technology and a giant, nanny-state of a government that is used by special interest groups and politicians who think they know whats best for everyone else to enforce how they think everyone else should behave and the big one being the war on drugs.
The government LOVES the war on drugs because it gives it a chance to grow and the bureacrats get to make even more money off the populace. The Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves so fast you could hook up a power station to their graves and power the entire country for years, oh and the government would tax that too.

[Jimmy]

Making them legal means you're opening up the market to them, where they would be safer. They could be sold anywhere and your local drug store would have a lot more incentive to keep them safe than anyone on the black market would.

Ok, so they legalize cocaine tomorrow, here's what happens. The FDA either approves it after changing a few things about it, either subracting or adding ingredients and preservatives or they do not approve it and it can't be sold under any means.

Or the FDA approves it and it's packaged and shipped to stores with a nice little ingredients sticker on it. Now we have people cooking it in their homes on a greater level. Or people go to Sam's Club and buy it in bulk. We have drunk drivers now, I don't think it's a good idea to put cokeheads behind the wheel on a mass scale.

We live in a capitalist merchandising society right now. Do you seriosly want to see billboards for heroin, or see stock rise in the drug trade like it was the Dow? The entire idea terrifies me.

I would just like to take the time to point out that I am pro-legalization and decriminalization of cannibus. It has too many uses to be denied like it has been.

[Jimmy]

Also, Montana was dirt poor, and once he had money, did he stop? No, he was addicted and greedy, nothing to respect in any way.

I agree he wasn't a hero. If you noticed I didn't say he was. More of a sad case in point that the drug war ruins lives.

He had a choice. Life was hard working at that little restaurant place, but he made his choice and continued making it long after he could've stopped.

[Jimmy]

Riiiight, the "oh things and folk were different back then so we could never go back to a freer society" argument, speaking of things heard before. The only thing different nowadays is our technology and a giant, nanny-state of a government that is used by special interest groups and politicians who think they know whats best for everyone else to enforce how they think everyone else should behave and the big one being the war on drugs.
The government LOVES the war on drugs because it gives it a chance to grow and the bureacrats get to make even more money off the populace. The Founding Fathers are rolling in their graves so fast you could hook up a power station to their graves and power the entire country for years, oh and the government would tax that too.

You're preaching to the choir. Also don't forgot that people arrested for possession are given jail time and lose the right to vote so that new laws can't be created to their benefit because they wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

But times really have changed, freer government or not. You can't look at the average intelligence/education/height/weight/life span of the modern American and tell me that it was better for us all in 1860. There were so many more social boundaries and limitations to opportunities.

As for your government being all evil now, it's always been that way. They just didn't educate us as well back then so we didn't know. Watch "Gangs of New York" to see how bad it was. Read all about Tammeny Hall and how dead people were voting all the time. They didn't have to watch us cause we were too stupid for them to bother. They watch us now because they're afraid of what we could do, those of us not distracted by the media and our own greed, that is.

[Wuducynn]

Ok, so they legalize cocaine tomorrow, here's what happens. The FDA either approves it after changing a few things about it, either subracting or adding ingredients and preservatives or they do not approve it and it can't be sold under any means.
Or the FDA approves it and it's packaged and shipped to stores with a nice little ingredients sticker on it. Now we have people cooking it in their homes on a greater level. Or people go to Sam's Club and buy it in bulk. We have drunk drivers now, I don't think it's a good idea to put cokeheads behind the wheel on a mass scale.

Right, all of a sudden because its legal everyone is just going to go crazy and there will be a coke-head driving problem? The same thing with if Marijuana was legal suddenly everyone is just going to get so baked they're going to not go to work the next day by that logic?


We live in a capitalist merchandising society right now. Do you seriosly want to see billboards for heroin, or see stock rise in the drug trade like it was the Dow? The entire idea terrifies me.

I would just like to take the time to point out that I am pro-legalization and decriminalization of cannibus. It has too many uses to be denied like it has been.

You're assuming two things here A. The we actually live in a capitalist society, which we don't. We live an a government protected, corporatist society. Government protection of some businesses over others is not true capitalism.
B. The legalization of all drugs would cause everyone to want to abuse the drugs. This was the same rationale folk who were for prohibition of alcohol used before, during and after prohibition towards alcohol use. "Oh if it was made legal suddenly everyone would go crazy with it and society would collapse". The same rationale folk who were against pot used in the fifties and sixties.

[Wuducynn]

Also don't forgot that people arrested for possession are given jail time and lose the right to vote so that new laws can't be created to their benefit because they wouldn't be able to vote anyway.

And this will help out addicts how exactly?


But times really have changed, freer government or not. You can't look at the average intelligence/education/height/weight/life span of the modern American and tell me that it was better for us all in 1860. There were so many more social boundaries and limitations to opportunities.
As for your government being all evil now, it's always been that way. They just didn't educate us as well back then so we didn't know. Watch "Gangs of New York" to see how bad it was. Read all about Tammeny Hall and how dead people were voting all the time. They didn't have to watch us cause we were too stupid for them to bother. They watch us now because they're afraid of what we could do, those of us not distracted by the media and our own greed, that is.


I never said the government was "all evil now". I said it is a lot bigger. I agree it has always been evil. Indeed a lot of population has been dumbed down by being raised by the same government "education" which you're spouting most of its mantra and aren't even aware of it. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to continue to support it.

[Jimmy]

Right, all of a sudden because its legal everyone is just going to go crazy and there will be a coke-head driving problem? The same thing with if Marijuana was legal suddenly everyone is just going to get so baked they're going to not go to work the next day by that logic?

No I'm saying that if hard drugs were legalized more people would be prone to try them, get addicted and cause random forms of chaos. How many kids start drinking every year because everyone else they hang out with does too? Imagine the scale of "trying it out cause of friends" if it wasn't alcohol but heroin which would also be readily available en masse.



You're assuming two things here A. The we actually live in a capitalist society, which we don't. We live an a government protected, corporatist society. Government protection of some businesses over others is not true capitalism.
B. The legalization of all drugs would cause everyone to want to abuse the drugs. This was the same rationale folk who were for prohibition of alcohol used before, during and after prohibition towards alcohol use. "Oh if it was made legal suddenly everyone would go crazy with it and society would collapse". The same rationale folk who were against pot used in the fifties and sixties.

You're right about "A" but I still call it capitalist because for the most part, people work for what they get here. The wealthy and those that gain money through illegal means do not apply to this.

Yes I am assuming those things under "B.", because by and large logic dictates that these things would happen. A freaking new cell phone is released for 100's of dollars and people line around the block to get it. I saw a commercial for a video game console for only $399.00 last night and I turned to Rjeso and exclaimed, "You can get a car for that amount of money!" Yet people line up around the block for a PS3, or Tickle Me Elmo or whatever the crap is en vogue right now. If smack went in sale, people would line up arounf the block because it's burned into us, that if it's out there for sale, it must be bought, not all of us, but those that would is too great a number to ignore.

[Jimmy]

And this will help out addicts how exactly?quote]

It doesn't and it screws up reform laws because of it. You and I are on the same page on a lot of subjects so I feel the same way that you do about this, just not the hard drugs.

[QUOTE=All_Hail_The_Crimson_King;65576]
I never said the government was "all evil now". I said it is a lot bigger. I agree it has always been evil. Indeed a lot of population has been dumbed down by being raised by the same government "education" which you're spouting most of its mantra and aren't even aware of it. That doesn't mean that it makes sense to continue to support it.

You've insulted me by stating that I'm merely a voicebox for what the government has to say to us. Let me put this in the most blunt way possible, ok?

I've seen lives destroyed by hard drugs. Friends, family, enemies, strangers. Either you're speaking for the decriminalization because you're either an addict/dealer yourself, or because you're ignorant.

If you're either, all I can say is that you shouldn't be any of those things. Sorry if you are. I will not continue this conversation, as neither of us can change each other's minds on this, so it's pointless to continue it.

Hard drugs being legal means more dead people, more broken families, more violence, more crime, more chaos and nothing redeeming about human existence.

[Matt]

Interesting conversation.

I can actually agree a little with both points but in the end, it was Jimmy's last that struck me. They are increasing awareness about this stuff because they have to.

Remember? We sued everyone in the 90's and this is what we get.

And I like the "hard drugs" qualifier. I think weed should be on the "over 18" list but the rest are seriously destructive imo.

[Darkthoughts]

On the Sesame St and general un-necessary censoring issue, I'm of a mind that the pc people need a good uncensored kick up the butt.

As far as the drug decriminalization discussion goes, I'm leaning more towards Jimmy's pov. I believe on one hand that people should have the right to do what they like to themselves - but in the case of an addict they're not really doing what they like anymore. It's destructive behaviour that they've become powerless to stop - the law is in place to try to protect them.

[Daghain]

As much as I hate to derail the current conversation, I felt the need to reply to this:


Are you guys making fun of me? XD lol

No, I was making fun of CK. :lol:

[TerribleT]

quote]

I've seen lives destroyed by hard drugs. Friends, family, enemies, strangers. Either you're speaking for the decriminalization because you're either an addict/dealer yourself, or because you're ignorant.

[/QUOTE]

I think all drugs should be made legal, and I don't use drugs at all, not even marijuana. My primary reason for thinking this is that, to date, I've not seen any evidence of success in the war on drugs. They still continue to stream into this country, and we have hundreds of thousand of people locked up in a prison system that is overburnded already who's offenses are drug realted. I belive it's your body, if you choose to put alcohol, nicotine, THC, coke, heroin, fat, salt, MSGs, or whatever else into it, that choice is yours and yours alone. If you want to die as a heroin addict in the gutter, or suffocating to death in a hospital from emphysemia, or from a heart attack brought on by the consumption of too much fat, more power to you. Think of the tax dollars that could be saved, and think of the tax dollars that could be collected if we just legalized all drugs. The type of chaos that you describe has not taken place as a result of alcohol being legal, and the fact that pot, for all intents and purposes is as well. I want to emphasize again, that I don't deal, or use drugs other than alcohol.

[Darkthoughts]

No, I was making fun of CK.
It's a communal passtime :P

[Darkthoughts]

I think all drugs should be made legal, and I don't use drugs at all, not even marijuana. My primary reason for thinking this is that, to date, I've not seen any evidence of success in the war on drugs.

True, but I don't think, legalizing them will solve any of these problems either. To my mind it's a problem with society, not the legal system.

[TerribleT]

I wholeheartedly agree that it's a problem with society, we live in one in which people are not held responsible for their own behavior. I'm not trying to solve those problems, they aren't mine to solve. I have control over one person, and the doing of one person...ME. The problems of drug addiction belong to those addicts with the problem.

[Matt]

I agree with that Mr. T (:lol:)

But I also think a civilized society has to deal with dangers to its population. People stuck on the hard stuff fit that bill in some cases imo.

[Daghain]

I'm of two minds on this one. On the one hand, if it's legalized I think we should tax the blue fuck out of it, but on the other hand, I've seen plenty of lives ruined by a legal drug, alcohol (including several members of my own family) so I can't imagine what people would be like if you gave them something even more powerful.

[Darkthoughts]

Yes, I agree with the latter part of your post Daggers.

But also, if you taxed the crap outta legal drugs, the black market would still thrive as a cheap alternative.

And I also wonder - as drugs are a rite of passage for some...a rebellion of sorts in your teens/early twenties - if we legalised it, what would people resort to to rebel?

[Jimmy]

I think all drugs should be made legal, and I don't use drugs at all, not even marijuana. My primary reason for thinking this is that, to date, I've not seen any evidence of success in the war on drugs. They still continue to stream into this country, and we have hundreds of thousand of people locked up in a prison system that is overburnded already who's offenses are drug realted. I belive it's your body, if you choose to put alcohol, nicotine, THC, coke, heroin, fat, salt, MSGs, or whatever else into it, that choice is yours and yours alone. If you want to die as a heroin addict in the gutter, or suffocating to death in a hospital from emphysemia, or from a heart attack brought on by the consumption of too much fat, more power to you. Think of the tax dollars that could be saved, and think of the tax dollars that could be collected if we just legalized all drugs. The type of chaos that you describe has not taken place as a result of alcohol being legal, and the fact that pot, for all intents and purposes is as well. I want to emphasize again, that I don't deal, or use drugs other than alcohol.

Cigarettes don't make you steal cars to get more. Nobody's ever sucked dick for a McDonald's cheeseburger. I've never seen a family of coffee drinkers all drink coffee together even after one of them dies from drinking coffee.

I have known someone that stole cars for meth money though. I used to work with a girl that would tell stories about blowing guys and taking it anally for coke and I used to be close friends with an entire family that even after the wife/mother died of an overdose would still lean their faces down on to mirrors together as a family.

Wanting people who do bad drugs to die just to cull the herd is no excuse to want to legalize drugs. Should we not tell kids that it's not safe to put forks in light sockets just to see who makes it to kindergarten?

I'm someone who has done hard, soft and legal drugs. I know what they are, and what they can do. If hard drugs were legal, you'd find coke imbedded into Energy Drinks. Why have a cup of coffee in the morning when you do snooters all day long?

None of us have the right to tell others how to live, that's true. But do you honestly think the world would be better if laws in place to protect us were repealed? Drug addiction in a single person gets worse and worse over time, eating them alive as time goes on. Would you want to see an entire neighborhood go through that? A city? A state? The Country?

[Darkthoughts]

Nobody's ever sucked dick for a McDonald's cheeseburger.
Hey! It was just that one time and I was really hungry, ok?!!

[Matt]

And you got a full on Big Mac for the extra effort. :lol:

But its true--obviously alcohol falls into the "destructive" category but there are plenty of drugs that don't.

[TerribleT]

If the laws that you speak of actually protected me from drug addiction, I'd be compelled to agree with you. They don't, my own common sense protects me from being a drug addict. Note that I didn't say I've never done drugs, only that I don't now. We each have a right to choose our own path to hell. Initially, it may lead to a higher number of people using drugs, but in the long run, it won't. I also think it's important to educate people about the consequnces of using drugs. (Not that it works now.)

[Jimmy]

Nobody's ever sucked dick for a McDonald's cheeseburger.
Hey! It was just that one time and I was really hungry, ok?!!

And the winner of the "Quickest Poster to Make a Cheeseburger Blowjob Joke After My Post" goes to.....

Darkthoughts!

Congratulations, here's your smiley prize. :dance:

Edit - Also, I'm sad now that I used my real name as a screen name here, because "Cheeseburger Blowjob" has a nice ring to it.

[Darkthoughts]

Yes, education is good - a way forward if its coming from a credible source like an ex addict rather than say, your staid class teacher. But how so do you reason that drug awareness doesn't work now, but would if they were legal? (If I understood you correctly there?)

Matt - I got fries and a coke too, of course :lol:

[Kevin]

But how so do you reason that drug awareness doesn't work now, but would if they were legal? (If I understood you correctly there?)


I know nothing much about illegal drugs. I know everything about legal drugs. Don't know how that works, but I think if hard drugs did become legal there would be a lot of hype which means a lot of info.

And overall, I agree with Jimmy here. The ramifications of allowing hard drugs to be legal are huge.

We are wasting money in taxes on a 'War on Drugs', but at least we're trying dammit.

[TerribleT]

I'm not trying to make the argument that drug awareness would work better if drugs were legal. I'm trying to make the point that people who have addictive personalities will make their way to whatever their addiction is one way or the other. They will feed that addiction one way or the other. Making drugs illegal has not stopped them, and it has created an underworld that is more dangerous than the druggies themselves.


No apple pie? You got fucked.....oh wait

[Jimmy]

If the laws that you speak of actually protected me from drug addiction, I'd be compelled to agree with you. They don't, my own common sense protects me from being a drug addict. Note that I didn't say I've never done drugs, only that I don't now. We each have a right to choose our own path to hell. Initially, it may lead to a higher number of people using drugs, but in the long run, it won't. I also think it's important to educate people about the consequnces of using drugs. (Not that it works now.)

You are you. Everyone else is not you. Provided that they legalize drugs and chaos ensues I'll meet you at the Statue of Liberty sticking out of the sand. I'll be the guy in the astronaut uniform being chased by the damn dirty crackheads.

In the long run? How can you be sure?

[Kevin]

I'm trying to make the point that people who have addictive personalities will make their way to whatever their addiction is one way or the other. They will feed that addiction one way or the other.

So serial killers are all right then? They are addicted to taking a life, but we should make murder legal simply because it will happen if its illegal anyways?

Crock.

[TerribleT]

I say we take off and nuke them from space, it's the only way to be sure....oh wait, this isn't the movie quotes thread. (Aliens) I'm really trying to make the point that we are not responsible for the actions of others, nor will we ever be. They are responsible for their own actions, and nothing that we do will save them from themselves. In the meantime we spend vast amounts of money to barely slow down the influx of drungs into the country, to no positive effect. Your drug addict friend will tell you that she would do anything required to get her fix, and nothing would stop her.

[Darkthoughts]

No apple pie? You got fucked.....oh wait

Shit!!

:lol:

[TerribleT]

[QUOTE=Kevin;65773 So serial killers are all right then? They are addicted to taking a life, but we should make murder legal simply because it will happen if its illegal anyways?

Crock.[/QUOTE]

Murder takes the life of another person, therefore it's not something that someone does to themselves.

[Kevin]

I don't understand how that makes a difference. Someone is still dead in the end whether it is self-inflicted or performed against someone else.

If not murder, then suicide. Should we not try to prevent someone from committing suicide simply because they're doing it of there own accord?

Granted, suicide isn't illegal.

[Jimmy]

I'm trying to make the point that people who have addictive personalities will make their way to whatever their addiction is one way or the other. They will feed that addiction one way or the other.

So serial killers are all right then? They are addicted to taking a life, but we should make murder legal simply because it will happen if its illegal anyways?

Crock.

:clap::clap::clap:

[Darkthoughts]

Suicide is illegal.

[Jimmy]

Trying suicide is illegal, assisting in a suicide is illegal. Suicide can't be illegal because the person in question is dead.

[TerribleT]

The basis of my argument is that what you do to yourself is your own business, suicide included.


It's time for me to go home now, so thanks for debate. It's been interestng and enjoyable, have a wonderful night, and a great thanksgiving day!!!!!!

[Darkthoughts]

Cheers TT - same to you :D

Jimmy - you pedant :P

[Odetta]

Can I just jump in and say that I loved Sesame Street as a kid?
I also loved the Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck episode where Elmer Fudd keeps blowing Daffy's beak off in different funny ways!

Twisted? Yes. Funny? No shit!

[Kevin]

Granted, suicide isn't illegal.

Suicide can't be illegal because the person in question is dead.

That was my point, I was going for irony. :D

Bye TT, I've enjoyed the discussion as well.

I'm intrigued by the word 'business' that you used. If a business goes under, people are affected. Just like if a 16 year old kid commits suicide, the repercussions are felt by others. Same applies with drug users. You are ruining your own life and those of others.

[OchrisO]

I'm not calling anyone a mouthpiece for the governement, but I think there are a number of things the government wants you to thing about the war on drugs that simply aren't true.

Most of the violence surrounding drug use, stealing cars, killing peope, etc, is fueled more by the fact that they are illegal and dealers can charge insane prices for them. This is especially true of drugs like Copcaine that are brought in from other countries. It took so much effort and time to get it here, and the dealers know the users can't get it elsewhere, so they charge really high prices. This system is what causes people to go out and steal cars or kill people for the money/product.

To put this on topic:

Let's say Big Bird were selling coke on the corner of Sesame street. He had to send Elmo, the newest member of the gang, all the way to South America to pick up the product. Elmo had to bing it back across U.S. customs and into the country. All of this requires a lot of money and time. So, Big Bird places an exuberant price on his product in the states.

Now, Oscar the Grouch is feeling really down and wants some coke to pep himself up a bit. Oscar is already a fairly tempermental dude. He walks up to Bib Bird and wants to get a gram of cocaine. He finds out that a gram is $95. He only has $20. Money problems are part of the reason he is so down. Big Bird tells him he can sell him 2 crack rocks for $20. Oscar takes the crack rocks. Now, crack is considerably different in that it is a very short high, generally followed by a crash. his involves anxiety, anhedonia, depression, irritability, extreme fatigue and possibly paranoia. Crack is also far more likely to cause the user to develop an intense craving for cocaine. There are plenty of recreational cocaine users, but hardly any recreational crack users.
Oscar goes back for more crack and Big Bird has the same deal. Only this time, Oscar has only $5 that he dug up around his trashcan. Big Bird tells him no deal. So, Oscar has to seek alternate forms of cash, because his craving, cause by using crack, is too intense. So, he goes out and steals a stereo, or robsa little old lady.

Had Oscar been able to go down the street and legally aquire a line of cocaine, the chances that he would have tried crack and descended to that lifestyle are honestly much much much slimmer. I don't do cocaine, but I know a bunch of people who have who walked away from it cold-turkey.

Also, in its war on drugs, the government never mentions that a majority of the deaths involved with drugs happen as homicide from people killing others over drugs. This is also generally street dealers getting killed by people higer up on the chain than they are because they tried to withhold some case, or steal a stash of drugs and make off with it. I know at least one person taht this happened to over $35,000. If there wasn't a war on drugs, and all of the drugs weren't criminalized, there would be no thriving market taht allows greed to drive people to kill each otehr over it. You don't see guys from Anheuser-Busch hunting down and killing people from Coors Brewing Company because they sell their beer cheaper. However, you did see people killing people quite regularly over beer sales during prohibition when it was illegal in teh States. Al Capone made quite a living on it. If drugs were legalized, I am almost certain that teh number of drug related deaths in the United States would go down rather than up.

Here's an idea: Legalize drugs and take all of the war on drugs money(which is an exuberant amount of money) and funnel it into help programs instead. That way, anyone who wanted to stop doing drugs, or alcohol even, could get good solid, free help in doing so.

[Darkthoughts]

Great post Chris - but the crux of your point is, that it would only work if legal drugs were cheaper than current street prices. Which knowing governments and their passion for taxing, I doubt.

[Jimmy]

I'm intrigued by the word 'business' that you used. If a business goes under, people are affected. Just like if a 16 year old kid commits suicide, the repercussions are felt by others. Same applies with drug users. You are ruining your own life and those of others.

In a semi-unrelated note, a 13 year old girl recently committed suicide and it may create tougher laws dealing with IM'ing online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=494809&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490

Odetta, I too miss the old days of violent cartoons. I keep thinking about The Simpsons episode where Marge calls for non-violent cartoons and the kids watch an ep of Itchy and Scratchy where the duo just sits in rocking chairs drinking lemonade. Sigh.

Darkthoughts, I didn't go to 6 years of evil medical school to be called Mr. Jimmy. :P

Have a Happy Turkey Day Terrible! That goes for the rest of you as well, assuming you're American.

[Kevin]

Great post Chris - but the crux of your point is, that it would only work if legal drugs were cheaper than current street prices. Which knowing governments and their passion for taxing, I doubt.

Got to agree with Lisa here, I don't see a legalized drug being less expensive than its illegal conterpart. Which means the illegal side is perpetuated.

[Kevin]

In a semi-unrelated note, a 13 year old girl recently committed suicide and it may create tougher laws dealing with IM'ing online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=494809&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490


I'd heard of this already. Its tragic that an adult with kids of her own did not see any harm in what she did.

[Ruthful]

I actually remember Monsterpiece Theater. Little did I realize at the time that it was simply a way for the Chidren's Television Workshop to exploit another PBS property; uncreative, cheap bastards that they are.

I always liked the two grumpy old men-at least, in terms of minor characters. There was a great episode of The Cosby Show years ago, which involved a dream sequence in which they played a pivotal role.

The element I never quite grasped was the adulthood/childhood distinction in Sesame Street. The muppets who were portraying children looked identical to the ones who were, ostensibly, playing adults.

[Jimmy]

Brilliant points ochriso and on topic too!

I must side with Darkthoughts on this one though. Presuming the government made them affordable enough wouldn't we still have the same problems that we have now?

[OchrisO]

Just to use Marijuana as an example, because I am better versed in the prices of it:

Right now, on a good day, $10 will get you two joints and that is if it isn't amazingly good stuff. Given the ease of growing it, and how much more often you can grow it, I can't imagine it being worse priced than cigarettes are now, which they are taxing quite a lot in the States now.

Now, I think I saw a sign when I was at a gas station a few days ago that advertised a carton of Marlboro cigarettes for around $25. Now, for the sake of government greed and taxation, let's double that for $50.

There's 20 cigs. in a pack. There are 10 packs in a Carton. That's 200 cigs.
On the market right now, 200 joints of the lowest caliber would cost you $1000, taking out the price scaling. Let's drop that by half just to overly cut the price as the amount scales up. So, $500 for 200 joints, even though it is actually much more than that. I am being generous to make a point.

If it were legalized, here are some ideas: Hemp grows easier than tobacco. You can plant it more often than tobacco. You don't have to rotate crops or use cover crops at all. If it were legal, there would be many companies jumping on producing it because of how easy it is to grow combined with the demand for it. So, it would most likely end up with a cheaper base price from the compnies than cigarettes have now. So, even if the government decides to tax the shit out of it, Oscar the Grouch could probably still go down to the corner store and buy a carton of Marlboro joints for $50. That's only 10% of the extremely generous street price estimated earlier.

[OchrisO]

Brilliant points ochriso and on topic too!

I must side with Darkthoughts on this one though. Presuming the government made them affordable enough wouldn't we still have the same problems that we have now?

There would still be problems. I'll even bow to the idea that overdoses may very well rise. This could be somewhat combated by the fact that the War on Drug money could be funnelled into help centers to help people deal with adddiction before it comes to overdose.

Also, if overdoses did go up, I think that deaths from violent drug crime would go down so much that in the end we would have far fewer dead people related to drugs than we do now.

On a side note, I have no data for it, but I think taht is Marijuana alone were legalized, use over other drugs would go down signifigantly.

[Jimmy]

OchrisO you make math interesting. :lol:

[Jimmy]

[quote=Jimmy;65816]There would still be problems. I'll even bow to the idea that overdoses may very well rise. This could be somewhat combated by the fact that the War on Drug money could be funnelled into help centers to help people deal with adddiction before it comes to overdose.

Also, if overdoses did go up, I think that deaths from violent drug crime would go down so much that in the end we would have far fewer dead people related to drugs than we do now.

On a side note, I have no data for it, but I think taht is Marijuana alone were legalized, use over other drugs would go down signifigantly.

It'd never happen though. Rehabs and Detox centers would tie into the Health insurance businesses and we'd wind up with an even bigger clusterfudge that we have now.

A good number of people I know who've used the harder drugs only do it because they're tested for drugs randomly through work or the courts and coke leaves your system faster than pot does, so you might be right on that point.

[OchrisO]

OchrisO you make math interesting. :lol:


It comes from growing up watching Sesame Street. :)

[Katet]

In a semi-unrelated note, a 13 year old girl recently committed suicide and it may create tougher laws dealing with IM'ing online.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=494809&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490

Honestly, I have to say that the parents are partially guilty in cases like this. I know that might cause a lot of people to say "What?" and I mean less than partially, a fractional bit of guilty one might say...But I seriously think that the relationship between a parent and child can play into something like this. Growing up I never had a good relationship with my mother and thusly I never told her anything that was going on in my teenage life. Now that my sister is 16 I see that she doesn't tell my mom much either and who does she call when she has a problem, me of course. And I try to give her the same advice I would give my own daughter (if she were 16 instead of 4 lol) And I think that there might be a possibility that these parents didn't have a healthy relationship with their daughter because any loving parent would notice that their daughter is depressed and isnt getting along so good in school, b/c she'd talk about it, that is if she could talk to her parents about such things. I just can't understand how her parents couldn't have known that she was being bullied online, if they had maybe it wouldn't have happened. That just my opinion, and I had to reply to it since I have strong feelings about suicide and the relationship between parents and their children. But then again..people can be depressed and no one could ever know, there is that....

[Katet]

Oh, and I totatally think pot should be legalized..but thats a whole other rant.. :D

[Matt]

I think one study showed like 55% of adults smoke weed. :lol:

At least once in a while--the daily folks are a whole other hard core group.

[ZoNeSeeK]

Anything thats highly addictive should be illegal.

Meth & Heroin are highly addictive (for different reasons), and given access and supply and a desire to get high, becoming reliant on these drugs is something that happens with more ease and urgency than other mood altering substances like Alcohol, Pot or Ecstasy. They should be illegal because they alter what your body and mind consider basic needs to survive, such as eating or breathing, and going without could be related to holding your breath and trying to live.

Alcohol is always a good comparison in terms of something thats legal and socially acceptable that causes incredible amounts of damage to society and has the potential to draw addictive personalities to it and create all sorts of problems. With current illegal drugs, there is a market of suppliers and consumers and there will always be markets such as this when there is a demand for anything. There is a huge difference however - even considering some of the massive illegal drug operations in asia and south america and the massive drug markets in europe and the states - between the reach of a black market and completely opening up a product onto the world market. Just look at brand competition and saturation of alcohol into our society - bars, clubs, advertising, taxes. Its not the ability to purchase and consume the drug without prosecution that we would need to worry about, its the economic juggernaut which accompanies any product that hones in on human vices. Alcohol is bad enough - I don't think its wise for any of the others to be released onto the market in the same way.

What needs to take place for any kind of meaningful progress to occur with the drug issue and resultant problems in society (and don't forget the millions of people that enjoy recreational drugs on a regular basis that DONT ruin anyone's lives, including their own, and go about their merry way) is that each drug needs to be viewed as a completely different substance from the next, each needs to be understood from the metabolics and chemical makeup of the drug to the methods and patterns of consumption. I am sick of ill informed people lumping all illicit drugs together, perhaps occasionally differentiating pot from the others, but thats about it. Even the classes system for drugs authorities use are too vague.

When drugs are seen as individual substances with different markets, consumer bases, statistics on users as opposed to problem users then policies based on informed decisions on real data can actually have a realistic outcome. Its starting to happen in my state in aus - limited quantities of pot and ectsasy are decriminalised. Which means that police resources are being spent where they really need to be, not busting 18 year olds with a baggy of weed or a couple of pills. I think you get a fine and have to attend some information lecture or something, it goes on your record but not as a criminal offence. More realistic drug policies need to be in place which use the statistical evidence available on drug use and target real problem areas, not throw college kids in jail for possessing weed.

Most drug policies are not based in reality and need to be tailored to free up police and beurocratic resources in order to tackle the key problem areas.

[Jimmy]

What he said. ^

[Matt]

No shit!

[Frunobulax]

Well spoken, Zone.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Sesame Street didn't kill me!

[Daghain]

Granted, suicide isn't illegal.

Actually, I think it still is in some places. But who do you prosecute? :D


Edit - Also, I'm sad now that I used my real name as a screen name here, because "Cheeseburger Blowjob" has a nice ring to it.

You know, you can get a one time name change....:lol:

[Ruthful]

WTF?

How did a satirical piece about political correctness turn into a Firing Line debate about decriminalizing narcotics?

Forget it, I'm just going to eat some cake and go to bed.

[Daghain]

Ah, the twists and turns of a message board. :D

[OchrisO]

All of my posts were still about Sesame Street. :)

[Daghain]

Too true. :D

[Ruthful]

Supposedly coke-dealers are moving their operations up North since the value of the dollar's plummeted. The price of cocaine in Toronto is rock-bottom. Well, the joke's on them! There's no way that the Canadians will ever be able to snort up the amount of narcotics we consume.

:nope:

[Kevin]

Supposedly coke-dealers are moving their operations up North since the value of the dollar's plummeted. The price of cocaine in Toronto is rock-bottom. Well, the joke's on them! There's no way that the Canadians will ever be able to snort up the amount of narcotics we consume.

:nope:

In T.O. it may suck but all they have to do is move a little farther north where all the rich asshats from miles around would flock to them to fuck up their lives and waste thir money. York Region (my region) has the second highest GPA of any region in Canada. Its 30 minutes north of Toronto.

I sincerely hope that doesnt happen.

[Patrick]

On balance, I'd say I agree with Jimmy and Zone on the drug discussion.

I'm pro-legalization of pot.

I remember those early episodes of Sesame Street. I loved Oscar the Grouch.
Thank God there was no Elmo in those days.

[Frunobulax]

Elmo says, "Buy more merchandise!"

[Jimmy]

WTF?

How did a satirical piece about political correctness turn into a Firing Line debate about decriminalizing narcotics?

Forget it, I'm just going to eat some cake and go to bed.

It's about perspective. If you read the thread backwards a discussion about hardline drugs would've become one about Sesame Street.

And is that really a better alternative? :panic:

[Jimmy]

[quote]Edit - Also, I'm sad now that I used my real name as a screen name here, because "Cheeseburger Blowjob" has a nice ring to it.

You know, you can get a one time name change....:lol:

Let me think about it. :orely:

Uh.... no.

[BlakeMP]

I want to say this is the most asinine thing I've ever heard, but sadly, it probably just makes it into the top 10. :(

[Ruthful]

Hold up, we were allowed to choose screen names that doubled as sex acts?

Why wasn't I apprised of this?

[Jimmy]

Hold up, we were allowed to choose screen names that doubled as sex acts?

Why wasn't I apprised of this?

I can only presume you've never heard of the "Double-backed Ruthful Mouthfull" sexual position.