The Stand - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[Odetta]

So... what we're gonna do here is have our own version of a book of the month club! Each month, we'll discuss another SK book or story! When the month is up, we'll just leave the thread open to continue discussion and we'll post another thread to start a new book or story!

We are going to allow all books and short stories by Stephen King and Richard Bachman.

The first book for discussion is already taking place... The Stand.

Please note that Spoilers will abound in this thread.







So, I've started reading the Stand again for about the 4 or 5 time... and yeasterday, I was in the store when I let out a HUGE sneeze and I thought to myself... I wonder how many people I just infected with that sneeze! ;)


This is my all-time favorite book! Anyone else love it as much as I?

[Daghain]

I TOTALLY love that book. I'll be rereading it here in a month or so. :D

[Odetta]

I have a thing about disaster/amegeddon type stories.

[Daghain]

I think that's why I like it so well - most of that could actually happen. :D

[Darkthoughts]

Its the ultimate Randall Flagg appearance. I loved him in The Stand, his evil was unleashed in a spectacular way in that story...bloody good stuff!

[Matt]

My all time favorite for sure. I remember I used to have months where I was on this weird kind of guard duty, read it over and over.

The Stand all the way!!

[BedOfRoses]

So, I've started reading the Stand again for about the 4 or 5 time... and yeasterday, I was in the store when I let out a HUGE sneeze and I thought to myself... I wonder how many people I just infected with that sneeze! ;)


This is my all-time favorite book! Anyone else love it as much as I?

I love this book as well! And I know what you mean about the sneezing thing...we often say "I'm sure it's just a cold" when we sneeze!!!

[flair]

I'm on part 31 of 32 on the audiobook right now ;)

[MonteGss]

Who reads that one?

[flair]

Oh, and I swear I remember reading a thing about how money spread the disease, or something like that. Is that in the original version? Am I getting it mixed up with another book?

[Randall Flagg]

I posted this at previously on another site, but some may not have seen it.
First off, a collector I know has an Inscribed copy of The Stand. It was inscribed to KIng's daughter Naomi. In the inscription King describes his "breakthrough" when he was stalled writing the book.
After the quote, I will add some additional relevant information-also previously posted elsewhere.



Dear Naomi-

Well I guess this is the one (maybe along with
‘Salem’s Lot) they’re apt to remember me for
when I’m dead. The first three quarters of
it were written in Colorado and went fantastically
well-I mean, day after day, what a rush.
Then, when we came back to Maine-to
Bridgton, it was-it turned into a nightmare.
Like Pilgrim in Pilgrim’s Progress, I lost
the straight way in the Slough of Despond. I
walked Kansas Road day after day with my head
down, hunting for the way out. And just when I
was about to give up, I thought of Nadine Cross
planting a bomb in Nick Andrew’s closet and
blowing up most of the Free Zone Committee.
That blast had the effect of blowing up the
political issues that were strangling the
story, and the rest of the book went fine,

Love,

Dad



More info:

When king finished the first draft of The Shining, he spent two weeks writing “Apt Pupil”. (Which would appear years later in Different Seasons), and then rested for a time; early in 1975 he returned to the novel that he called The House on Value Street:






QUOTE
It was going to be a roman á clef about the kidnapping of Patty Hearst., her brainwashing (or her sociopolitical awakening, depending on your point of view, I guess), her participation in the bank robbery, the shootout at the SLA hideout in Los Angeles-in my book the hideout was on Value Street, natch-the fugitive run across the country, the whole ball of wax. It seemed to me to be a highly potent subject, and while I was aware that lots of nonfiction books were to be written on the subject, it seemed to me that only a novel might really succeed in explaining all the contradictions…………




The book was never written; King attacked it for six weeks, but nothing seemed to work. He was haunted by a news story that he had read about an accidental chemical/biological warfare spill in Utah that had nearly endangered Salt Lake City; it reminded him of George R. Stewart’s science fiction novel Earth Abides (1949), in which a plague decimates the world. One day, while listening to a gospel radio station, he heard a preacher repeat the phrase “Once in every generation a plague will fall among them.” King liked the sound of the phrase so much that he tacked it above the typewriter:






QUOTE
The phrase and the story about the CBW spill in Utah and my memory of George R. Stewart’s fine book all became entwined in my thoughts about Patty Hearst and the SLA, and one day while sitting at my typewriter…I just wrote-just to write something: The world comes to an end but everybody in the SLA is somehow immune…[Later] I wrote Donald DeFreeze is a dark man. I did not mean that DeFreeze was black; it had suddenly occurred to me that, in the photos taken during the bank robbery in which Patty Hearst participated, you could barely see DeFreeze’s face. He was wearing a big badass hat, and what he looked like was mostly guesswork. I wrote A Dark Man with no face and then glanced up and saw that grisly motto again: Once in every generation a plague will fall among them. And that was that. I spent the next two years writing an apparently endless book called The Stand. It got to the point where I began describing it to my friends as my own little Vietnam, because I kept telling myself that in another hundred pages or so I would begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.




Doubleday had fired Bill Thompson in a fit of sour grapes, and the task of editing the massive The Stand was given to another editor. Knowing that King no longer had a future at Doubleday, the company declared that King must cut the huge manuscript (over 1,600 pages) by at least 250 pages in order to "keep the retail price down." King was furious, but he had little choice in the matter given his contract. It wasn't until twelve years later that his uncut manuscript was published (by Doubleday, ironically) as The Stand: The Complete and Uncut Edition.
At the time of the original publication of The Stand, Doubleday had two standard book sizes: A-size (5 1/2" x 8 1/4") and B-size (6 1/8" x 9 1/4"). The company published most of its books in the A-size format simply because they could run-on with their Literary Guild book club presses and thus save enormous amounts of money. For some reason, Doubleday published The Stand in the A-size format. The Doubleday presses were designed to print the comparatively shoddy product in which the book clubs specialized, so Doubleday books during the 70s and early 80s were among the lowest quality of all publishers. As a result, The Stand is very hard to find in Fine condition; many times pages will fall out of the glued binding after the book is read once. Also, Doubleday did not cover their dust jackets in plastic laminate as most other publishers did—as a result, shipping and handling of the books caused myriad scuff marks, tears, and stains. Therefore, a Fine first edition of The Stand will command over $600, even though it was published in an edition of more than 35,000 copies.

The Stand was published in 1978. Almost simultaneous to the hardback publishing was the appearance of King’s short story: The Gunslinger, in The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction.
The Complete and Uncut Edition of the Stand was published in 1990. The uncut edition restores approximately 150,000 words., preceded by a two part preface. Illustrated by Berni Wrightson- commissioned by SK, not Doubleday-the art complements King’s text. Peter Schneider was the architect and Marysarah Quinn the designer of the S/L edition.

Although The Stand in 1978 did not make the top 15 sellers list, it did do so in 1990 (Along with Four Past Midnight). It sold ~653,828 copies that year.:
1990: Fiction
1 The Plains of Passage -Auel, Jean M.
2 Four Past Midnight -King, Stephen
3 The Burden of Proof -Turow, Scott
4 Memories of Midnight- Sheldon, Sidney
5 Message from Nam -Steel, Danielle
6 The Bourne Ultimatum- Ludlum, Robert
7 The Stand- King, Stephen
8 Lady Boss -Collins, Jackie
9 The Witching Hour -Rice, Anne
10 September- Pilcher, Rosamunde
11 Dazzle -Krantz, Judith
12 The Bad Place -Koontz, Dean R.
13 The Women in His Life- Bradford, Barbara Taylor
14 The First Man in Rome- McCullough, Colleen
15 Dragon- Cussler, Clive

Food for thought:





When Stephen King first published his 1990 fiction work, The
Stand: The Complete and Uncut Edition, there was a flurry of
media attention. Numerous newspaper and magazine book
reviewers attempted to assess the value of King’s new work.
However, reviews of this particular book were markedly
different than those of most new releases. The earlier
publication of a 1978 version of The Stand, an edition with
approximately 400 less pages and different beginning and
ending, presented the reviewers with an opportunity not
only to evaluate the novel, but also to compare it to the
earlier publication. King had pushed for publication of the
later version because he had never been satisfied with the
publisher’s deletion of 500 pages from his original
manuscript. Unfortunately for King, many of these reviewers
centered their review upon complaints that there was no
real need for the insertion of the 400 additional pages. As
Karen Liberatore, a reviewer for the San Francisco
Chronicle explained, "The reader, first-time or second
time, gains nothing from the reinsertion of that lost
prose…except a longer book" (E-10). Indeed, many of the
reviewers suggested that the added pages, which generally
included additional character description and background
information, simply cluttered the book. As Robert Keily of
the New York Times Book Review explained, "this is the book
that has everything - adventure, romance, prophecy,
allegory, satire, fantasy, realism, apocalypse, etc., etc.
…But the overall effect is more oppressive than imposing."
Additionally, some of the reviewers criticized King’s
additional pages because they found these added details on
a large number of characters in the story devalued each of
the unique personalities he created. "As a storyteller,
King knows how to create interesting characters who stick
in your mind; but by leaving them isolated in so ponderous
a book for long periods of time, he doesn’t do full justice
to his inventions" (Lafaille 111).
However, not all of the reviewers held the same viewpoint
on King’s lengthy character descriptions. A few of the
reviewers wrote approvingly of the added pages, some even
claiming that the additions "make King’s best novel better
still" (Steinberg 60). Moreover, Ray Murphy, of the Boston
Globe, wrote in glowing terms of King’s use of character
description. Murphy vehemently defended King’s lengthy
interludes into background information, "[King] picks up
some of these characters again and again throughout the
book in a series of self-contained vignettes, each of them
of lapidarian brilliance. It is these short telling scripts
that make King so much the writer of his time, the
"post-television writer"…The jarring bits make a whole and
build into a crackling structure with explosive climaxes"
(Murphy 76). Ultimately, however, Murphy’s adamant defense
of King’s style is itself overwhelmed by numerous
descriptions of the work as "too lengthy" and "overly
detailed" and "plain unnecessary." While King himself might
have been pleased with the addition of 400 pages of the
original manuscript, the rest of the literary world
appeared happier with the original version.

[Daghain]

Wow Jerome, you are a wealth of information! That's really cool.

It's been so long since I read both versions that don't remember the beginnings and endings being different. Damn, now I'll have to read them back to back. :lol:

[The_Nameless]

I've only read it the one time, but I loved every second of it. I can see why it is considered one of King's best.

I loved how they showed the destruction of our society, and the beginnings of another. It had everything I love in King stories;great characters, great villian, horror, laugh out loud moments, human drama. I could go on, but I shant.

It's also one of the only stories I continually look back on during certain times of the year.

[Erin]

Fantastic information Jerome, I didn't know most of that.

And I just love The Stand. It's the book that made me a King fan for life.

[OchrisO]

I told someone in class who has been sick for weeks that they had Captain Trip's and were going to kill us all. She said that noone around her had died yet and I told her that iot probably lies dormant for 6 months and then starts to destroy people.

[Odetta]

THis is the first time I've read it since I finished DTVII... I am trying to look at Randall Flagg in a different light. Since the way he was portrayed in DTVII was very different than how I imagined him, I want to see if there are any hints in The Stand...

[The_Nameless]

I told someone in class who has been sick for weeks that they had Captain Trip's and were going to kill us all. She said that noone around her had died yet and I told her that iot probably lies dormant for 6 months and then starts to destroy people.


She's been unseen for three weeks now.

[flair]

Any chance someone has a link for a comparison between the two versions of the book?

[Ruthful]

THis is the first time I've read it since I finished DTVII... I am trying to look at Randall Flagg in a different light. Since the way he was portrayed in DTVII was very different than how I imagined him, I want to see if there are any hints in The Stand...

Oh man, Flagg's last appearance in The Dark Tower.

Grrr...

That's an entirely different thread I suppose.

[Storyslinger]

On of my favorite non-DT books, the characters had a real presence

[Randall Flagg]

Any chance someone has a link for a comparison between the two versions of the book?
I've not found one. I do know that a great deal is expanded regarding trashcan man and his travels cross country.

[Odetta]

THis is the first time I've read it since I finished DTVII... I am trying to look at Randall Flagg in a different light. Since the way he was portrayed in DTVII was very different than how I imagined him, I want to see if there are any hints in The Stand...

Oh man, Flagg's last appearance in The Dark Tower.

Grrr...

That's an entirely different thread I suppose.

See? That's my point.
because Randall flagg was such a weenie in DTVII, and I always thought of him as a bad-ass for lack of a better word,

do some of those "traits" actually show up in The Stand? Maybe they did and I just never noticed.

[Daghain]

One small paragraph dedicated to changes. Not much, but it's all I can find at the moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stand

[Odetta]

I'm at the point where Larry is almost ready to go through the tunnel.

[Storyslinger]

Probably the most possible 'worst case senerio' that could happen to the world

[Daghain]

Shh, don't tell Matt...he hates the tunnel. :lol:

[Odetta]

I think the tunnel section is brilliantly written... freaky, freaky!

[Daghain]

I can't wait to reread that one - the more you talk about it the more I think I'm moving it up on my list. :D

[Storyslinger]

That tunnel sucked, I would have hated to really go through it

[Odetta]

I think that's what makes it such a good thing... if it freaks you out enough to not want to do it... successful!

I like following the flu... how this person walks by this person who gives it to their family who gives it to this guy and so on.

[Matt]

Tunnel!!

**runs**

Every time we drive through it, I tell Dora "can you imagine this thing dark, full of cars and bodies?"

she gives me one of these...:rolleyes:

[Daghain]

The fact that that tunnel scares you just cracks me up. It's got to be one of the least scary things in the universe. :lol:

[Matt]

pfft--depends of if you were ever raped in one :(








kidding--I was never raped in a tunnel. :lol:

[Daghain]

Well, that was a real left-fielder right there. :lol:

[Matt]

Yeah, I had a customer and it was the quickest joke I could think of...

should have kept thinking. :lol:

[Darkthoughts]

:lol:
You are the King of Random Matt :D

I'll have to reread this too. I only read it once.

[Storyslinger]

I agree with O, that the flus progress was fun to follow.

It's just crazy how fast that moved

[Matt]

I love how he took a second to talk about all the people that died even though they did not have the flu :lol:

Woman dragging her dead, abusive husband to the basement and the door locks behind her.

[Odetta]

I love how he took a second to talk about all the people that died even though they did not have the flu :lol:

Woman dragging her dead, abusive husband to the basement and the door locks behind her.

Yes, I enjoyed that as well... was that in both versions of the book?

[Daghain]

I liked the reform of the death penalty. :lol:

[ZoNeSeeK]

I loved the Stand but have only read it once - its one of those epics that you need to read several times I think. Ill put it on my reread list :)

[Erin]

I love how he took a second to talk about all the people that died even though they did not have the flu :lol:

Woman dragging her dead, abusive husband to the basement and the door locks behind her.


This was one of my favorite parts of the book. When I read it, I was so wrapped up with the flu outbreak and all the people who died from it, that I totally forgot about the fact that now there were no more doctors to treat people who fell and broke a leg, no more police to protect you, no more firefighters to put out and save you from fires, all that. It was eye opening and really a section of teh book I enjoyed. I especially enjoyed the part about the paranoid woman with the gun.

[OchrisO]

I wish the super-flu would really break out in our world.

[Brice]

I wish the super-flu would really break out in our world.

It will Chris. :couple: You just gotta' keep on believing man.

[Erin]

Dont stop believing, hold on to the feeliiiiiiingggggg...........

[Ruthful]

Don't worry, Y. Pestis is a reslient little bacteria.

:harrier:

[Sai Joshua]

I have to say that I really enjoyed the novel. The mini-series, which I thought was very good, probably pissed me off the least as far as the adaptation of the book to film( Shawshank and Green Mile would also join this list). I really hope that if they do make the DT, the actor who played Randall Flagg in the series will get the opportunity to replay this role. I just finished re-reading "The Talisman", so I need another book to start. I think I will make "The Stand" that book.

[Storyslinger]

I would agree with you on the choice of RF, Sai Joshua

[Patrick]

Thanks for re-posting all that background information, RF. :thumbsup:


I've only read the uncut version of The Stand, never the original. I figured if the revised was the version that King really meant people to read, I wouldn't bother with the one that edited down again his wishes.

[Mattrick]

I was never a big fan of James Sheridan as Randall Flagg. His entire demeanor was a little too comical, especially in the early going. It's that he was bad but for DT I'm sure they could find someone better. I had some trouble thinking of him as this evil, powerful man at times.


Besides On Writing, I hadn't read a book since I finished The Ruins in early summer. Never had the urge and On Writing was easy to read in bits while making number two. Just got my copy of The Stand and Misery back and I see them stacked. Misery, about 300 pages and The Stand at close to 1200. Well, I ended up choosing The Stand.

I read The Stand for a book report in grade 7 in about a month. All the other kids had small little novels and I bring in this book you could kill someone with. My teacher didn't think I would be able to finish it in the time alotted. Did I prove her wrong lol. I've seen the mini-series on DVD numerous times since but haven't read the book in about ten yeas. Can't wait to get to into the real outbreak. It takes a hundred pages just to show some main characters. Oh well, not as bad as the Dark Tower when it takes 4 books and 2000 pages to get the real plot rolling.

[Odetta]

I was never a big fan of James Sheridan as Randall Flagg. His entire demeanor was a little too comical, especially in the early going. It's that he was bad but for DT I'm sure they could find someone better. I had some trouble thinking of him as this evil, powerful man at times.




Actually, I think maybe, that's supposed to be the point. If you look at how Randall Flagg is portrayed in DTVII, maybe Randall was never meant to be such an 'evil and powerful' man. As I am rereading the book, I am finding little signs of this, whereas when I read it before finishing the DT series, I never noticed... I only noticed the 'evil-ness'.

[Daghain]

I liked The Stand particularly because it was such an in-depth novel. I haven't read it in years and am looking forward to a reread. :D

[Jean]

So am I! I haven't re-read it in ages, one of my students always has my copy.

[Matt]

I loved it, it is the one I have re read the most often and I do believe I'm up for another.

I just really want to buy and listen to it on CD

[Mattrick]

Actually, I think maybe, that's supposed to be the point. If you look at how Randall Flagg is portrayed in DTVII, maybe Randall was never meant to be such an 'evil and powerful' man. As I am rereading the book, I am finding little signs of this, whereas when I read it before finishing the DT series, I never noticed... I only noticed the 'evil-ness'.

They show you hints of the humanity in him but all his human traits are selfish. He pretends to care for Nadine but only so he can have his child. Nadine, herself, realizes this and ends his plans. He uses his humanity in order to use other people for his own needs. At least, that is what I remember from the mini-series when I last watched it years ago. It makes sense with learning, in The Dark Tower. He is human.

I love Lloyd though and Miguel Ferrer portrayed him pretty great.

[William50]

I have never read the stand....but I plan to after I finish the Tower books. I heard that it is quite good.

[Daghain]

William, read it! You'll love it, I'm sure. :D

[Jean]

my student, who had been reading The Stand for almost a year, called me yesterday. She had finished it. She was crying and saying, "I lived with those people for a whole year, and now they are dead, almost all of them!"

[Matt]

did somebody say up thread they didn't like the dude who played Flagg in the movie?

I totally agree. I don't know what it was, but that guy was no Flagg <_<

[Ruthful]

I love Lloyd though and Miguel Ferrer portrayed him pretty great.

Co-sign.

He was one of my favorite parts of that series.

I know it has its critics, but I thought the adaptation of The Stand was one of the few times that Mick Garris actually did a pretty good job with the material he was given.

[Mattrick]

did somebody say up thread they didn't like the dude who played Flagg in the movie?

I totally agree. I don't know what it was, but that guy was no Flagg <_<

I first read Randall Flagg and pictured a dark cowboy almost (funny as I hadn't read The Dark Tower yet) as King always talked about his boots and his jeans, the way he could sweet talk you and be your best friend while you know he's the devil at the same time. Imagined being leaner with a plainer face, a grizzled face that's almost baby face. A dark cowboy mixed with lying politician. Jamey Sheridan, not his performance as much but he didn't look as if he could be so coaxing.

[Odetta]

who would you have suggested?

[beef_roller]

I was never a big fan of James Sheridan as Randall Flagg. His entire demeanor was a little too comical, especially in the early going. It's that he was bad but for DT I'm sure they could find someone better. I had some trouble thinking of him as this evil, powerful man at times.




Actually, I think maybe, that's supposed to be the point. If you look at how Randall Flagg is portrayed in DTVII, maybe Randall was never meant to be such an 'evil and powerful' man. As I am rereading the book, I am finding little signs of this, whereas when I read it before finishing the DT series, I never noticed... I only noticed the 'evil-ness'.

Randall Flagg/Walter O' Dim/The Man In Black/Richard Farson... however you want to name him, he's always been the same. As Odetta says, yes he was semi-comical in the beginning in the beginning of the Stand. Always joking, having a malicious type of humor about himself, the dark jester I guess you could say. He was always right there in a King or leaders ear giving his advice.

Yet if you notice, he is also like this in the beginning of the DT series as well as in "The Eyes of The Dragon". I think James Sheridan is in fact quite a good actor to portray these men. I wonder though if he will affect the DT series later on though when the character begins to become much darker.

[Mattrick]

who would you have suggested?

Well, it's hard to say what actors will do a television mini-series; The Stand was fortunate enough to get Sinese and Lowe, at least fourteen years ago.

For his role The Dark Tower I'd suggest say, Stellan Sarsgard. Perhaps, Cillian Murphy.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I first read Randall Flagg and pictured a dark cowboy almost (funny as I hadn't read The Dark Tower yet) as King always talked about his boots and his jeans, the way he could sweet talk you and be your best friend while you know he's the devil at the same time. Imagined being leaner with a plainer face, a grizzled face that's almost baby face. A dark cowboy mixed with lying politician. Jamey Sheridan, not his performance as much but he didn't look as if he could be so coaxing.

And see from the description of him, I thought he would look like a dude off of the cover of those old romance novels.... A gorgeous man, that it's hard to say no to. You don't realize he's evil until too late, then you've already agreed to do whatever he says.

but incidentally, Jamey Sheridan became more and more attractive to me the more the movie went on, so I think on some level the casting was well done. I still didn't think he was instantly as gorgeous as I thought he would be. *shrugs* Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I reaaaaaaallly thought he did a good job!

[Odetta]

he had the right smile for Flagg... big smile... looks warm on the outside but is really chilling and a little scary

[Erin]

I agree. I actually liked Sheridan as Flagg, mainly for the creepy smile like Odetta said.

As for the rest of the casting, I think most of it was spot-on. Especially Gary Sinise for Stu Redman and the guy who played Glenn. Molly Ringwald kinda bothered me a bit as Fran, but it was mainly just because I don't really like her as an actress.

[Odetta]

I agree... Molly Ringwald bothered me too.
I really liked Rob Lowe for Nick.

[Storyslinger]

I thought that Lowe was the best portaryed character, and can't wait to see him in Salams Lot

[LadyHitchhiker]

Agree on Molly! Everyone else was perfect.! :D

[CPU]

Ah, The Stand, the book that turned me into a rabid King fan. It's absolutely one of my favorite novels, and in regards to King works it's ranks equally with IT for me.

[Storyslinger]

Yeah, even among non-King fans (yes they do exisit), The Stand is a highly regarded novel

[Childe 007]

Hello All -

Just a quick aside if I may. This started nagging at me after I read The Stand again a few months ago - so I went back and read it again last week - and I have to tell you - I am really starting to belive that this is the beginning of Roland's tale - and Roland's world. There are just way too many similarities in principle themes to shrug them off.

* We see the beginning of Flagg coinciding with the end of the world.
* We see Roland's ka-tet represented right down to Oy.
* The origin of "being sent west."
* The origin of "you have forgotten the face of your father."
* The survivors all seem to have a heightened sense of telekinesis - the touch - which was common among gunslingers.
* The last line of the book even hints at the end of The Dark Tower.

I think there are actually more than this but these are the ones that real off the top of my head. Anyone else have any insights?

[Jean]

* The origin of "being sent west."
* The origin of "you have forgotten the face of your father."

these two are really very insightful (the others being rather obvious, now that you pointed them out - though I have to confess I personally had never thought about The Stand in the light of the Dark Tower); I think it might even help us at last to understand the correlation of timelines and the worlds (as far as it is possible at all, the said correlation having to be intrinsically paradoxical), thank you Childe, and hile, long time no see, it's great you're here!

[Matt]

Seriously, those are some amazing connections that I had never thought of either.

Wonderful!

[Darkthoughts]

I agree - check out the Tower Connections section in the Baronies.

If you wanted to start a discussion in The Stand section, we could really get brainstorming going off your observations - it'd be great if you could include some quotes for comparison :thumbsup:

[Mattrick]

It looks like the editors (or King himself maybe) went through the effort of updates the books timeline with so many references to 'the 90's and even the eighties.

[Childe 007]

* The origin of "being sent west."
* The origin of "you have forgotten the face of your father."

these two are really very insightful (the others being rather obvious, now that you pointed them out - though I have to confess I personally had never thought about The Stand in the light of the Dark Tower); I think it might even help us at last to understand the correlation of timelines and the worlds (as far as it is possible at all, the said correlation having to be intrinsically paradoxical), thank you Childe, and hile, long time no see, it's great you're here!

Hile and hello,
Thanks for the welcome and kind words. :cowboy:

As far as timelines and the worlds - that's something else I've been pondering for a while now. But that's for another time I think.

While we're on The Stand I wanted to post this little nugget I found a while back - I know this is another of your favorite subjects Jean - and I couldn't resist. :evil:

* After Trashcan Man blows up the tanks at Cheery Oil: "They were the eyes of a man who has discovered the great axle of his destiny and has laid his hands upon it." Trashcan Man found his Ka.

[Odetta]

OK... I'm about 2/3 of the way through my reread of The Stand...

Question... if everyone is so psychic, and everyone is having these bad vibes about Harold Lauder, why is it that no one... repeat NO ONE, does anything about him?

[Jon]

I thought Flagg was fine. I didn't like Lloyd or Molly.

[Jon]

my student, who had been reading The Stand for almost a year, called me yesterday. She had finished it. She was crying and saying, "I lived with those people for a whole year, and now they are dead, almost all of them!"

Which version was she reading?

[Old Man Splitfoot]

The Stand was probably the third or fourth book by King I ever read, and probably my second or third favorite (outside of the Tower). It's required summer time reading for me; I don't quite know why, but every summer since I was 12, I've read both It and The Stand. Now it's hard for me to read them any other time of the year. Really kind of strange.

[Jean]

my student, who had been reading The Stand for almost a year, called me yesterday. She had finished it. She was crying and saying, "I lived with those people for a whole year, and now they are dead, almost all of them!"

Which version was she reading?
Complete, unabridged, - it's the only version I have.

Childe: gr gr gr. I don't really know what to do about all that - if .net dies, I'll just restart my Ka thread here. Destiny, - and in the case of Trashcan Man, too, - always seemed to me a retrospective notion; we know it was the point where he "found" it onyl after we know how it all ended, even though the author has the right to anticipate.

[Erin]

OK... I'm about 2/3 of the way through my reread of The Stand...

Question... if everyone is so psychic, and everyone is having these bad vibes about Harold Lauder, why is it that no one... repeat NO ONE, does anything about him?

Maybe because he's so geeky and awkward that no one really thinks he's capable of doing something extreme.

I'm writing my thesis right now on school shootings and it's a common theme amongst them. No one ever suspects the shooters to do anything that drastic. They are shy, dorky, and overlooked by most everyone.

[Childe 007]

OK... I'm about 2/3 of the way through my reread of The Stand...

Question... if everyone is so psychic, and everyone is having these bad vibes about Harold Lauder, why is it that no one... repeat NO ONE, does anything about him?

You have to remember that above all else - Harold was still veiwed by the other folks in the Free Zone as a kid. Those with cause to suspect him the most were the ones most influended by that perception, and we don't like to see "kids" possess the capacity to do great harm. Fran suspected Harold - yes - but there was also a lot of guilt that went along with her suspicion. Same with Stu; and Larry practically idolized him after following along across the country. Fran and Larry (after Leo gave with his "insight") did try and dig up somehting on what Harold was up to and almost succeeded - but Flagg was a step ahead of them again.

Also - and I hate using this as an analogy - but it seems to fit. It's like the family in the neighborhood that puts on the perfect front - but everyone knows that they're beating their kids. You know it's going on - but you can't prove it - and who wants to be the first to confront it? That's Flagg's brand of evil in a nutshell. Just under the surface and hard to see.

And what Erin said. :)

[Erin]

Nice Childe 007! You said a lot of what I was thinking....just much more eloquently and you sounded a lot smarter. :lol:

[Matt]

For real, that last analogy was great.

Folks knew what was going on in Las Vegas was bad, they just didn't understand how bad.

[Childe 007]

One more thing on the subject of Harold Lauder.

He is the most tragic character in this book - IMO. Harold was in a place that a lot of us think we are at 17 - the outcast, that (name your affliction here) person who didn't fit in - who was the butt of all of the "in crowd"'s jokes and cruelty - and all of a sudden he is the last man standing. Fat Goofy Harold outlived all of his "cool" sisters crowd - he beat them all.

Except Fran - one of those he fantasized about - really "the one". And after the initial shock of Capt. Trips swept through Ogunquit and it was only Harold and Fran left - it must have seemed to Harold that he was in Eden.

And all it took to throw him right back to Loserville was contact with one other human being.

It didn't really matter what happened between Stu and Fran - it could have been anyone - because in Harold's mind - all it took was one other person to make him the "outsider" again.

[NeedfulKings]

Interesting thoughts and connections.

I read The Stand (Uncut) for the first time while deployed during the early Gulf War. It was JUST what I needed. A deep escape. I enjoyed the characters, the journey, and of course the writing.

I plan to read it again. My only problem has always been "The Stand." Maybe I need to read it again, but I didn't see much "cause and effect" of those who entered Vegas (Nick, Larry, etc.) in relation to the fact that the bomb would have gone off anyway.

This WILL always be one of King's epics. Along with IT and the Dark Tower books.

[Odetta]

I plan to read it again. My only problem has always been "The Stand." Maybe I need to read it again, but I didn't see much "cause and effect" of those who entered Vegas (Nick, Larry, etc.) in relation to the fact that the bomb would have gone off anyway.


I don't know about that... remember the "hand of god"?

I think the guys HAD to be there for that to happen.

[NeedfulKings]

Oh yeah. I do remember that part now--more from watching the movie recently, so am looking forward to re-reading the accounts in the book some day. I don't know if it will change my opinion. All said, this is one of my favorite Non-DT books. The journey and characters alone make this a literary masterpiece, in my opinion.

[Odetta]

One more thing on the subject of Harold Lauder.

He is the most tragic character in this book - IMO. Harold was in a place that a lot of us think we are at 17 - the outcast, that (name your affliction here) person who didn't fit in - who was the butt of all of the "in crowd"'s jokes and cruelty - and all of a sudden he is the last man standing. Fat Goofy Harold outlived all of his "cool" sisters crowd - he beat them all.

Except Fran - one of those he fantasized about - really "the one". And after the initial shock of Capt. Trips swept through Ogunquit and it was only Harold and Fran left - it must have seemed to Harold that he was in Eden.

And all it took to throw him right back to Loserville was contact with one other human being.

It didn't really matter what happened between Stu and Fran - it could have been anyone - because in Harold's mind - all it took was one other person to make him the "outsider" again.

That is excellent insight! I never looked that closely at Harold.


OK, here's a question.
Why did they decide to merge Rita Blackmoor/Nadine Cross/ and some of Lucy Swann into one charater for the miniseries? AND, more importantly, WHY did they change Nadine?
In the book, Nadine was the one who took care of Joe/Leo but in the miniseries, it was Lucy. It seemed like the book made Nadine a "good" person but the movie gave her more of an edge.
Was this because they didn't want people to feel sorry for her character in the movie? Because, as I read the book again, I find her character to be a tragic one as well. I did not feel that way watching the miniseries.

[Matt]

I think "The Stand" was a way for King to say these people stood--against all odds and for the future of human kind, they stood.

I believe that applies to anyone who was in Boulder

As a matter of fact, when I met Dora one of the first things I asked her is "will you Stand?".

She thought I was a freak but luckily she likes that.

[Daghain]

No silly, you have it wrong...

People in Boulder are freaks. :lol:

[Mattrick]

Interesting thoughts and connections.

I read The Stand (Uncut) for the first time while deployed during the early Gulf War. It was JUST what I needed. A deep escape. I enjoyed the characters, the journey, and of course the writing.

I plan to read it again. My only problem has always been "The Stand." Maybe I need to read it again, but I didn't see much "cause and effect" of those who entered Vegas (Nick, Larry, etc.) in relation to the fact that the bomb would have gone off anyway.

This WILL always be one of King's epics. Along with IT and the Dark Tower books.

I'm not sure what book you read but ol' Nicky Andross doesn't exactly make it out of Boulder...which is sad because he was awesome.

[Matt]

No silly, you have it wrong...

People in Boulder are freaks. :lol:

Yeah, now.

But they would be a little less liberal after the superflu I think :lol:

[TerribleT]

Yeah, now.

But they would be a little less liberal after the superflu I think :lol:

LOL!!! Are you sure? I think it might be something in the water up there

:D

[NeedfulKings]

Interesting thoughts and connections.

I read The Stand (Uncut) for the first time while deployed during the early Gulf War. It was JUST what I needed. A deep escape. I enjoyed the characters, the journey, and of course the writing.

I plan to read it again. My only problem has always been "The Stand." Maybe I need to read it again, but I didn't see much "cause and effect" of those who entered Vegas (Nick, Larry, etc.) in relation to the fact that the bomb would have gone off anyway.

This WILL always be one of King's epics. Along with IT and the Dark Tower books.

I'm not sure what book you read but

Yes, I know he didn't make it. I just would have liked to see he and Larry die in a way other than chained up at some festival while an atomic bomb explodes.

[Matt]

I think the reason the guys had to go was so that a crowd would be there when the bomb went off

[Mattrick]

Yes, I know he didn't make it. I just would have liked to see he and Larry die in a way other than chained up at some festival while an atomic bomb explodes.


wtf? Nick didn't go to vegas. Nick was killed by the bomb harold built, in boulder. How do you get the idea that he was in vegas and blown up by a nuke?

[Matt]

He's not saying that--Nick was blown up, just a different one :lol:

He's just saying that he wished the boys that did go to Vegas could have gone down better than they did.

[Erin]

Hey everyone! Just a quick reminder, this thread has the radioactive "Spoiler" marker beside it as well as the word Spoilers in the title, so there is no need to use spoiler tags. This thread is for those who have read the book in it's entirety, so we can freely discuss all aspects of the book! :)

All that being said, there is some great discussion in here. It makes me want to read The Stand again for the millionth time. :D

[NeedfulKings]

:lol: Sorry, Mattrick! Yes, I was confusing Nick (who DID save all the council members) with Ralph!!!

I've been under a lot of pressure.

Anyhoo....my minor objection to how the two guys in Vegas died remains. :)

[Matt]

Shit, I was confused too. :lol:

I'm overwhelmed by The Stand today :wub:

[NeedfulKings]

:P Sorry for all the confusion.

Move along, there's nothing more to see here. :innocent:

[Mattrick]

if you're quoting officer barbarady (as I linked that to) I'll rebuttal with 'the booktastic book guy making love to chickens so you learn to remember Ralph instead of Nick' lol

I was sad when Nick got blown up, probably the first character death besides unmentionables from a certain work of fiction this site is based on. While I like the other characters the two that spoke the loudest to me were Trash Can Man and Nick - the best. I love the way King is about to capture people with handicaps (blindness, deaf/dumb, paralyzed, downs) and make their character so in depth. Nick spoke to me stronger (laugh if you get it) than other characters because he's life as been so tragic and he's had all these limitations and he can't experience so much the worker has to offer, he's homeless yet he still manages to be a nice person and his pairing with Tom Cullen was great, unable to communicate (deaf and dumb...and well, just dumb). There are characters I like also (Lloyd, Harold, Nadine, Tom Cullen, Flagg) that (160 pages in) are not yet made an appearence. Knowing there is still so much to happen gives me goosebumps. I hardly recall the book except for I know from the mini-series I've seen numerous times I recall the general plot well and certain changes (no rita, just Nadine etc) but there is so much I've forgotten.

Still, never been a big fan of Larry. I like his characters backstory but at the moment, until Captain Trips really rolls and he goes through the tunnel, not much really happens with him. Talks with his mom, music star blows money on drugs...nothing new. I recall Larry being a great character as it progresses when you see him shed the head he developed so quickly as, on the road and in Boulder, it means as little as Tom Cullen being dumb or Nick being deaf and dumb.

Though, I find it interesting how the 'evils' in Vegas turn out to be not so much different than the people in boulder in many regards. Tom Cullen wasn't bothered, they had an order as well and worked as it's own society. They were just about drinkin and partying while people in boulder liked having town meetings and drinking coffee.

[Jean]

Dear friends,

thank you very much for marking your spoilers. However, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that it is a "spoiler" thread, that is, we don't mark spoilers referring to The Stand here. I appreciate it that you want to be as careful as possible, not to ruin anything for anyone, but, since ***Spoilers!!! are mentioned in the title of the thread (and a special spoiler icon is attached), we now should also care about the readability of the thread. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Mattrick]

my spoiler was about the dark tower.

[Jean]

yes, and thank you very much for having marked it!

[Childe 007]

Interesting thoughts and connections.

I read The Stand (Uncut) for the first time while deployed during the early Gulf War. It was JUST what I needed. A deep escape. I enjoyed the characters, the journey, and of course the writing.

I plan to read it again. My only problem has always been "The Stand." Maybe I need to read it again, but I didn't see much "cause and effect" of those who entered Vegas (Nick, Larry, etc.) in relation to the fact that the bomb would have gone off anyway.

This WILL always be one of King's epics. Along with IT and the Dark Tower books.

Larry and Ralph and Glen had to be there, They had to "make their Stand" because Flagg had allready decided that this was the where and when that he was going to make his.


Once, he was quite sure, he would have done a quick fade when things began to get flaky. Not this time. This was his place, his time, and he would take his stand here.

Mother Abagail told them much the same when she "sent them west".


He brought you here only to send you further, on a quest. He means for you to try and destroy the Dark Prince, this Man of far Leagues...

Magic over Rationality.

* Glen describes rationalism (science) as a deathtrip and makes the leap that if rationalism is the deathtrip then irrationalism (or Magic) is the Lifetrip, and that maybe Flagg is but the “last magician of rational thought.”

And what defeats The Leader of The People and First Citizen (and I'd be willing to bet that's the title they hung on John Farson) was the presence of the agents of the white. And looking at it - had Stu been there - they would have failed. It had to be Larry and Ralph.

Ralph - to channel the pure Faith; and Larry to channel the Faith Learned (which is of course the most powerful).

Had it just been Flagg and Trash - Flagg could have zapped Trash and his present off to "never never trashcanland". Zap - no problem. We both overestimate and underestimate him. Absent the presence of Larry and Ralph - his own do not begin to question him.

That - more than anything - leads to his demise. His people SEE that he is a liar. And in the face of TRUTH and THE WHITE their belief in Flagg falters. Without undying devotion there is no magic - rational or otherwise. When Whitney Horgan came forward and cried to those gathered "This ain't right!" That was the end of Flagg. And Larry and Ralph had to be there for that.

They Made Their Stand.

[Odetta]

I never noticed this before, but Mother Abigail calls Frannie's baby... THE CHAP.

[Daghain]

:scared:

[Erin]

:o For real?

[Matt]

Yep, I remember thinking it was weird when they first started calling Mordred that.

[Odetta]

yes! She says it when she's on her death bed and Frannie is bitching (as usual). Mother Abigail has just told Stu he has to go West... and she calls her unborn child THE CHAP.

[Childe 007]

I never noticed this before, but Mother Abigail calls Frannie's baby... THE CHAP.

Nice One! I totally missed the "chap" reference.

I'm still gnawing on the whole "four fathers" thing too. The obvious answer is obvious of course - but here is one with twice the ka-daddies :idea: :unsure:

And lets not forget the description of the "tyke":

* Peter's :
"small hands were balled into fists... There was an amazing swatch of dark black hair on his head. His eyes were blue and they seemed to look directly into Stu's eyes, as if accusing him of being the author of all his misery. His forehead was creased with a deep vertical slash..." now who does that sound like?

[Odetta]

I also never realized that ka is mentioned in the Stand... the Judge says it right before he is killed.

[Jon]

I enjoyed the ending of the unabridged version more than the cut version.

Anyone else?

[Odetta]

Yes! I just finished it again, and I really enjoyed the ending!

[Matt]

I enjoyed the ending of the unabridged version more than the cut version.

Anyone else?

What are the differences?

[Jon]

The unabridged version finds Flagg on an island with a whole new race of natives to begin his evil works over again with.

[Lance]

I've read The Stand more times than any other King book. And that's saying a lot. I read the first edition when I was 13 and finished it in less than two weeks. I bought the unabridged version when it came out when I was 15. It was one of the first things I ever bought with money that I actually worked for. I make it a point to re read it every few years.

One thing that always drew me to the novel is the idea that my Grandma (my maternal grandmother) could totally be Mother Abigail. She was unyielding in her belief and would be strong even in a crisis like that.

[Darkthoughts]

Cool! Is it ok if we all pile round your Grandma's for milk and moral cookies? :D

[Jon]

**wonders what "moral cookies" are.

[Darkthoughts]

I thought thats the kind of thing Mother Abagail might dish out :D

[Matt]

Have a cookie and STAND!! :lol:

[cozener]

The unabridged version is the only one I've read. In many ways I feel that I'm rather lucky coming to King as late as I have. There aren't as many contradictions for me to contend with...at least in regards to this book and The Gunslinger anyway. To me, the ending with Flagg is the only ending. Can't really see it ending any other way. Also, it makes it so that Flagg ties in better with DT...establishing him as a semi-immortal entity in a way that the rest of the book didn't really do for me.

[Telynn]

I loved The Stand. I agree with Harold being one of the most tragic characters ever. I actually felt sorry for him.

One of the creepiest parts to me, not flat out scary or anything but just enough to make a little shiver run up your spine..... when Larry is in NY and goes to see a movie to get his mind off his troubles. Right at the end of that chapter there is just a little statement about someone coughing a few rows behind him. Just that, leaves it right there. Gah! NYC is dead now!!!

That is one of those things I love about King. The little things that really stick with you.

[ATG]

I loved The Stand.
I may have to read it again ( 4th or 5th time ) after I finish the DT as, sadly, I have found no other authors that speak to me like sai King does.

[Odetta]

agreed...

[AIMB]

[QUOTE=
Still, never been a big fan of Larry. I like his characters backstory but at the moment, until Captain Trips really rolls and he goes through the tunnel, not much really happens with him. Talks with his mom, music star blows money on drugs...nothing new.[/QUOTE]


i just read it for the first time in about 5 years and i like larry a lot more than the 10 other times i read it.
he always seemed like a filler charachter to me.
it might be bc im older now, its easier to understand letting your past go and trying to be a good person i guess.


i didnt read it for a long time bc i couldnt get the stupid movie charachters out of my head

[Matt]

Hey AIMB--welcome to the site. :rock:

[Míchéal]

i see some folks really pity harold, but i could never take to him. i just find him one irritating piece of shit...although he was essential for the story.

[Odetta]

I like Trashcan Man

[Míchéal]

yeah he was fun...

[ManOfWesternesse]

i see some folks really pity harold, but i could never take to him. i just find him one irritating piece of shit....

Yeah, Harold was a piece of work allright. But Hawk was getting there - would have got there but for Nadine I think.

[Randall Flagg]

I like Trashcan Man
That's why the Uncut version is great. Quite a bit more involving Trashcan Man in there.

[jayson]

I definitely prefer the longer version, mostly because of the lengthier stuff on Trash.

[Daghain]

Damnit, I was only going to reread the uncut, but now I may have to reread both for comparison's sake.

Sometimes I hate my inner English major. :lol:

[Randall Flagg]

Rather lengthy discussion on differences between the two versions. (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.books.stephen-king/browse_thread/thread/2459356b235751c9/fd8b6e02cff74458)

[Odetta]

Glad you found that Randall... I have been looking for something that shows this

[Randall Flagg]

New York Times review of The Stand Uncut By ROBERT KIELY; Robert Kiely is a professor of English at Harvard University.




What is longer than ''Moby-Dick,'' ''War and Peace'' or ''Ulysses''? If you guessed the Bible or the Manhattan telephone book, you would not be wrong (though there are small-print Bibles that are under a thousand pages). There are, of course, other longer books, but not many are novels and few of those have been able to sustain a hold on the popular imagination. ''The Stand,'' unabridged and 1,153 pages long, may prove the exception.
In 1978, Stephen King, the author of ''Carrie'' and ''The Shining,'' published ''The Stand'' and almost immediately added thousands of new readers to his already huge following. At that time, Mr. King's publishers thought the book would be better and certainly more salable if it were cut - in fact, cut by 500 pages, nearly half of its original length. Now the novel has been reissued with the missing 150,000 words reinstated, plus a preface by the author and 12 black-and-white illustrations by Bernie Wrightson.
It might seem unfair or irrelevant to dwell on size when assessing a novel, yet in this case it is impossible to do otherwise. One simply cannot ignore the bulk of this volume. Besides, a preoccupation with size and weight, particularly an American preoccupation with size and weight, is, as Mr. King insists, central to ''The Stand.'' As it is linked with images of the land, of the spaciousness and diversity and opportunity of the nation, this is a familiar American theme. Mr. King has not only read his Melville but also his Whitman and Dos Passos. Like his predecessors, Mr. King is aware that there is menace as well as promise in the immensity of the United States. What appears modern (or post-modern) in Mr. King is that both the menace and the promise have been tainted by a cheap tedium, a repetition of bravado and monotony of violence. This is not another book about a still raw, untried, half-hidden America, but a nation exposed over and over to itself, as in an enormous mirror, part trite situation comedy, part science fiction, part cop show. In ''The Stand,'' Mr. King comes across as the people's Thomas Pynchon. His characters are ''toilers in the vinyl vineyards,'' just plain folks who drink Gatorade and V8 but who also may happen to have jobs on top secret Government installations in the barren recesses of Nevada.
The general outline of the plot is fairly simple. An accident occurs in an Army lab doing research on biological warfare. A virus breaks through the isolation barrier and rapidly causes the death of nearly everyone working in the plant. There is one survivor, however, who walks past the failed security apparatus, races home to his wife and child, bundles them into the car and speeds toward the Texas border. By the time they reach a gas station in Texas, he is very ill and his wife and daughter have died a horrible death that leaves their bodies bloated, blackened and stinking.
Of course, the handful of people at the gas station are also contaminated and they, in turn, pass on the virus to others in a macabre chain of association that is described in loving detail, like a parody of the circulation of money (the perennial bad penny) or a mammoth game of pin the tail on the donkey. From Texas to Maine, Los Angeles to New York, in a gruesome variation on the refrain of ''This Land Is Your Land,'' the superflu spreads, causing its victims at first merely to sniffle and sneeze but soon after to expire in paroxysms of pain and burning fever. (The AIDS epidemic had not been identified when Mr. King originally wrote this book. What in 1978 might have looked like a fantastic exaggeration, in 1990 still appears statistically exaggerated but, sadly, not so fantastic.) Hundreds of pages of text are devoted to vignettes - some poignant, nearly all disgusting - of Americans in all regions and walks of life being stopped in the tracks of their ordinary existence by the dread and incurable disease. Two things make Mr. King's rendering of this phenomenon peculiar, one might almost say original. The first is the sheer number of cases reported and described. At first, you read along expecting things to change, a cure to be found, an escape to be discovered, but after 300 or more pages it becomes clear that variations on one theme - not progress - are the novelist's plan.
The second thing that makes these vignettes, and indeed the entire novel, peculiar is that the characters and situations are virtually all reproductions of American cultural icons. ''L.A. Law'' meets ''The Wizard of Oz''; ''On the Road'' meets ''The Grapes of Wrath''; ''Rebel Without a Cause'' meets ''Walden''; Li'l Abner gets lost in the House of Usher; Huck Finn finds Rambo. The New England we see is Norman Rockwell's; the West is John Wayne's. They are often pointed out, lest the reader miss them. ''She looked like a woman from an Irwin Shaw novel'' or ''It's like Bonnie and Clyde'' are common interjections from the narrator and the characters. At the same time, neither comic parody nor a Joycean complexity is at work here. The reproduction of the familiar seems instead a kind of corporate raid, a literary equivalent of a megamonopoly in which the new owner parades brand names to show off the extent and importance of the newly purchased domain.
Everything is processed through a gigantic American meat grinder. Just as foreign monuments become a ''Leaning Tower of Pizza'' or ''the Forbidden City Cafe,'' so the names and words of writers from other parts of the world are reproduced, respelled and repronounced. An admiring general turns Yeats into Yeets: ''He said that things fall apart. He said the center doesn't hold. I believe he meant that things get flaky. . . . That's what I believe he meant. Yeets knew that sooner or later things get . . . flaky around the edges even if he didn't know anything else.''
The few healthy characters seem not just to have survived the plague; they have also survived a rough-and-tumble translation from another medium. There is a Woody Allen look- and sound-alike: a New York songwriter with a sassy mother, who nags and pampers her successful and neurotic son during one of his rare visits home. There is a Jane Fonda character from Maine who is gutsy, beautiful, bursting with aerobic energy and slightly pregnant. And there is the hero, a strong, silent Texan, an amalgam of Gary Cooper and Kevin Costner. When the virus eventually peters out, after having done away with what appears to be most of the population, these and a few others gradually converge on the road, with their battered motorcycles, jalopies, slick sports cars and stolen bicycles, or just tramp exhaustedly from empty town to empty town in search of life and some place to start over.
Boulder, Colo., turns out to be the point of convergence for these friendly and cinematically familiar survivors and some dozens of others like them. No sooner do they find one another than they begin planning a government. Someone suggests a meeting in which they all ratify the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Another objects that this is unnecessary since ''we're all Americans.'' But, it is quickly explained, government is really an ''idea,'' and the reality of a democracy no longer exists: ''The President is dead, the Pentagon is for rent, nobody is debating anything in the House or the Senate except maybe for the termites and the cockroaches.''
It is all too shockingly and heavy-handedly clear that such statements - literally accurate within the plot of the novel - could (like the deadly virus) serve as metaphors for the dangerous and deplorable state of things in this country. However, rather than analysis or narrative development, there is a prophetic and programmatic explanation: a satanic figure, who has gathered his evil forces in Las Vegas, Nev. (where else?), has been haunting the American dream with fearful nightmares. He must be stopped. A few handpicked heroes, macho males from ''Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid'' or ''The Longest Day,'' scramble over dangerous, desolate terrain to get him, but are saved the trouble when he and his minions melt, like the Wicked Witch of the West, in a nuclear accident.
In short (well, not so short), this is the book that has everything - adventure, romance, prophecy, allegory, satire, fantasy, realism, apocalypse, etc., etc. Even Roger Rabbit gets mentioned. ''The Stand'' does have some great moments and some great lines. A desperate character trying to save his mother reaches an answering machine: ''This is a recording made at Mercy General Hospital. Right now all of our circuits are busy.'' And there is a wonderful description of ''mankind's final traffic jam.'' But the overall effect is more oppressive than imposing. In many ways, this is a book for the 1990's, when America is beginning to see itself less and less in the tall image of Lincoln or even the robust one of Johnny Appleseed and more and more as a dazed behemoth with padded shoulders. Americans seemed delighted but in an odd way humiliated when Vaclav Havel, a tiny man from a small country, entered the great halls of Congress and delivered an uninflated Jeffersonian address. ''The Stand,'' complete and uncut, is about the padded shoulders and the behemoth and the humiliation. Unfortunately, it also reproduces at length all the empty excesses that it appears to deplore.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I prefer the unabridged version because it delves more into RF and Trashy...

[Darkthoughts]

Rereading right now - as Brian said, I think Harold was on the verge of turning to the white after his first day on the burial team, more than at any other point in the story. But Nadine's untimely arrival put an end to it.

I really felt sorry for Trashy though. Harold's place in society was more through his own choice (in choosing how to react to people's treatment of him) whereas Trashy was a victim of circumstance. I thought the chapter on his arrival in Vegas was almost touching - where he realises he's part of a community.

Overall though, reading The Stand is most enjoyable for being RF's moment of glory - hes at his peak in this book.

[mia/susannah]

I only have the one version of the stand, the uncut version, This book :rock:
I love the book more than the movie but the movie was great too. It is definatly one of my favorites. I am going to reread it for the 5th time after I am done with Duma Key and the Dark Tower 7.:dance:

[jayson]

Overall though, reading The Stand is most enjoyable for being RF's moment of glory - hes at his peak in this book.

no doubt. it took an intervention from a deity to stop him and even that didn't kill him [just sent him to another level].

[LadyHitchhiker]

Oh it would be nice to read another book with RF such a big influence...

[jayson]

it sure would. i think he owes us one ;)

[Odetta]

I agree! I really loved him!

[jayson]

he's easily king's best villain ever

[Odetta]

When I reread The Stand this time, I looked for hints in Flagg's character that were similar to his character in DTVII... the only thing I came up with is that he never really was sure about what was happening... he could never remember his past and couldn't see much into the future... but that was it.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Yeah I didn't think they transitioned his character very well..

[jayson]

well, king seemed to have a hard time determining just who Flagg was and wasn't in the DT stuff right up to the revisions, so it's gonna seem a bit choppy. odetta does point out the thing about flagg's seeming disorientation, which is consistent with the way he's presented in DT.

[Míchéal]

what do y'all think of the way he was portrayed in the miniseries?...

[LadyHitchhiker]

I actually liked it... You just started to feel warm and fuzzy about the guy and then his head turns into a demon or does something else crazy...

[John_and_Yoko]

what do y'all think of the way he was portrayed in the miniseries?...

Well, I didn't get that when I read the book....

Anyway, the makeup job reminded me of Jack Torrance from the miniseries version of The Shining, which I didn't particularly care for....

As for what I think of how he was portrayed.... I guess he did all right with the character, but I didn't really like the miniseries compared with the book, so I can't really say anything better for it than that....

[LadyHitchhiker]

Well maybe I felt that way about RF because I was young and single and I thought he was charming and hot... :rofl:

And of COURSE the book is better than the miniseries... They should have made it a larger mini series to do justice to the beautiful book SK wrote for us.

[Lord_Vertigo]

*SPOILERS GALORE*
The Stand was the first King novel I ever read, and I was thrilled to have Flagg as a recurring character or reference in other novels as I read them, only to find him as a major character in DT. I just don't like the way he died. The story begins and ends with Roland chasing him down. He's Roland's chief antagonist throughout the series, and I think if he were going to go out the way he did, Roland at least should have been there if not fed him to Mordred himself, or, better yet, put his lights out with a pair of sandalwood guns.

[Mordred Deschain]

When I reread The Stand this time, I looked for hints in Flagg's character that were similar to his character in DTVII... the only thing I came up with is that he never really was sure about what was happening... he could never remember his past and couldn't see much into the future... but that was it.

I don't need to mark spoilers do I? I mean the thread says spoilers right?

I think there are 2 parts where Flag is the Flag from the Stand. Wizard and Glass when Tick Tock says "my life for you" and Flag says someone else said that before. and when my namesake does to Flagg what he does, the description of Flagg is that of The Stand. Army jacket, jeans..etc...

[Jean]

You don't have to mark spoilers when they spoil The Stand. If they spoil any other novel/story/poem/movie/etc, they have to be marked. http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Jon]

The ending of the unabridged version was just awesome!!!!!!!

[jayson]

Question, what year do the events in The Stand take place? I was always under the impression that it is 1990, going by the un-cut version. So, if it is 1990 then

Can it be the same superflu world Roland's tet finds after the Blaine ride? According to the newspaper they found there, it was 1987. So my question is, is that Kansas supposed to be "The Stand" level of the Tower, or another level where another Stand took place? I have no problem with the latter, but it is generally assumed that the Topeka we see is in "The Stand" world, but I feel it's three years too early for that if the dates are right.

[Darkthoughts]

When The Stand was originally published it was set in the 80's. The revised version had it set in the 90's - so WaG is in keeping with the original publication.
Read my article in the Tower Connections section...I put all this sorta stuff in there (hint hint :lol:)

[jayson]

the original was set in not in "the 80's" but in 1980. so it seems to me the 1987 is but another thing King is revising as he goes. i prefer to think of Kansas 1987 as an alternate kansas where RF did his thing than . there's no reason to believe it's not or that he wasn't capable of unleashing superflu on multiple levels. it's better to me than thinking king just plays fast and loose with the dates and changes things whenever he feels like adding more connections. sorry, i'm in an anti-revision mode right now.

[Darkthoughts]

Sorry, I misread what you'd written :)

Anti-revision is cool, I prefer the original Gunslinger for example - but with The Stand I prefer the revised edition.

In Robin Furth's concordance it states that the Topeka the ka-tet arrive in is The Stand's America, which is an alternate America - not Keystone.

[jayson]

well, let's define our terms for a sec and see if we are on the same page - i consider the un-cut Stand to be the "unrevised," and the first 1980's stand to be the "revised." obviously i am going by the fact that the "original" is the edited down version of it. call it what you will, the un-cut is the "real" stand for me.

ok, now to the tet's kansas... i agree that it is an alternate Topeka to Keystone, but still would need more evidence to say that it is The Stand's America. To me 1987 is not 1990. If it's just a matter of "well if King revised it now it would be 1987 in The Stand" then that makes it a bit of a cheat. I hate the idea of him going back and re-doing everything to bring it in line with DT. we already get the connections [certainly you do!] without them being re-drawn by the author to be "clearer." until he actually does re-write it as defintively 1987, i'm sticking with my "there are other Stands than these" theory.

[Darkthoughts]

well, let's define our terms for a sec and see if we are on the same page - i consider the un-cut Stand to be the "unrevised," and the first 1980's stand to be the "revised." obviously i am going by the fact that the "original" is the edited down version of it. call it what you will, the un-cut is the "real" stand for me.
I agree wholeheartedly!

Although, despite the cut version being just that, I think in terms of the 80's vs. 90's argument, the time period is a revision of the uncut version so its questionable which is the definitive timeline to take period.

[jayson]

and i agree on your point on the lack of a definitive timeline

[Mordred Deschain]

well, let's define our terms for a sec and see if we are on the same page - i consider the un-cut Stand to be the "unrevised," and the first 1980's stand to be the "revised." obviously i am going by the fact that the "original" is the edited down version of it. call it what you will, the un-cut is the "real" stand for me.

ok, now to the tet's kansas... i agree that it is an alternate Topeka to Keystone, but still would need more evidence to say that it is The Stand's America. To me 1987 is not 1990. If it's just a matter of "well if King revised it now it would be 1987 in The Stand" then that makes it a bit of a cheat. I hate the idea of him going back and re-doing everything to bring it in line with DT. we already get the connections [certainly you do!] without them being re-drawn by the author to be "clearer." until he actually does re-write it as defintively 1987, i'm sticking with my "there are other Stands than these" theory.

Let's not forget that in DT it's Wizard and Glass and that's where they run into Flagg again, and this Flagg is one that mentions that another person besides tick-tock said "my life for you". And I know that Flagg can cross time and dimensions and uses the doorways and such, but it is interesting that it's the Kansas from the Stand and Flagg makes that reference.

[jayson]

Let's not forget that in DT it's Wizard and Glass and that's where they run into Flagg again, and this Flagg is one that mentions that another person besides tick-tock said "my life for you". And I know that Flagg can cross time and dimensions and uses the doorways and such, but it is interesting that it's the Kansas from the Stand and Flagg makes that reference.

or it is another Kansas and he still makes the reference. i know king wants us to believe it's the same one, but he should get the year right or he could just as well be talking another level of the Tower where another Stand took place. Flagg could be referencing any number of levels he f'd up with his handiwork all in the same way. Just like the Pere's Americas, RF could have f'd up MANY of them.

[Mordred Deschain]

Well that is true. it could be just another level. I personally just think King put the project away for so long that when he got back into it he had a bunch of new ideas and that's why you get the re-editing of the Dark Tower books. I would have to say it is really a miner detail. Yes it may screw up the order of chronological events, but I think King was trying to make it the same place and time.

[jayson]

Well that is true. it could be just another level. I personally just think King put the project away for so long that when he got back into it he had a bunch of new ideas and that's why you get the re-editing of the Dark Tower books. I would have to say it is really a miner detail. Yes it may screw up the order of chronological events, but I think King was trying to make it the same place and time.

i agree, i'm sure he meant for it to be the same America in W&G as in the Stand. I do think that the inconsistency of the dates allows for an interpretation of it being a different America since RF could easily access them all. Either way...

[Mordred Deschain]

Ya

[Ryan]

what do y'all think of the way he was portrayed in the miniseries?...

I can't watch anything this guy (who played RF) does with out getting creeped out

[Ryan]

How's this Food for Thought....
what if, as the Train hurdles toward Topeka at break neck speed it passes through a Thinny which takes them to a when and not a where? It seems to me that the town of Lud is the perfect setting for a post-pandemic super flu...centuries past. meanwhile, our little band of heros encounter the other side of the thinny (which surrounds Topeka in a 'time bubble' of sorts) and stumble upon a jeweled castle... or mini-nexus set in their path...to set them back on thier path. They are then transported through the glass to a spot back on the path of the beam.

Plausable?

[Mordred Deschain]

if Ka wills it

[LadyHitchhiker]

Anybody know what's up with the stand lately? I was trying to order a paperback copy of it and there's none int he warehouses. Are they doing a re-release?

[TerribleT]

Question, what year do the events in The Stand take place? I was always under the impression that it is 1990, going by the un-cut version. So, if it is 1990 then

Can it be the same superflu world Roland's tet finds after the Blaine ride? According to the newspaper they found there, it was 1987. So my question is, is that Kansas supposed to be "The Stand" level of the Tower, or another level where another Stand took place? I have no problem with the latter, but it is generally assumed that the Topeka we see is in "The Stand" world, but I feel it's three years too early for that if the dates are right.

I always assumed it was the same. But remember that world was actually not a duplicate of ours, and therefore I have always thought it was a different "multiverse" if you will. Ex. The Kansas City Monarchs.

[jayson]

Question, what year do the events in The Stand take place? I was always under the impression that it is 1990, going by the un-cut version. So, if it is 1990 then

Can it be the same superflu world Roland's tet finds after the Blaine ride? According to the newspaper they found there, it was 1987. So my question is, is that Kansas supposed to be "The Stand" level of the Tower, or another level where another Stand took place? I have no problem with the latter, but it is generally assumed that the Topeka we see is in "The Stand" world, but I feel it's three years too early for that if the dates are right.

I always assumed it was the same. But remember that world was actually not a duplicate of ours, and therefore I have always thought it was a different "multiverse" if you will. Ex. The Kansas City Monarchs.

oh i know it's not "our" world, but my question was is it the world in the Stand or another Superflu world?

[TerribleT]

I always assumed the world in The Stand was ours.

[jayson]

I always assumed the world in The Stand was ours.

so you think the Kansas in W&G is not the Kansas in the Stand, but one like it where another superflu happened? that is what i think

[TerribleT]

I always assumed the world in The Stand was ours.

so you think the Kansas in W&G is not the Kansas in the Stand, but one like it where another superflu happened? that is what i think

Yes, going with the theme that there seem to be multiple worlds running in parallel, with similar events, people and places.

[Matt]

The Stand world was surely not Keystone--and the one we are in now probably isn't either. :ninja:

[jayson]

The Stand world was surely not Keystone--and the one we are in now probably isn't either. :ninja:

agreed, not Keystone, but was W&G Kansas "The Stand World" or another world altogether where RF launched another superflu, or maybe it got in thru the thinny...

[Matt]

Personally, I believe they were one in the same. I am not sure the time matters much with the nature of things but I do believe W&G Topeka was The Stands Topeka.

[Randall Flagg]

Anybody know what's up with the stand lately? I was trying to order a paperback copy of it and there's none int he warehouses. Are they doing a re-release?
Where were you trying to order from? Amazon has it for $8.99.

[Jean]

I always assumed the world in The Stand was ours.
Every time I was reading, a few things made me think it wasn't ours, but now I can remember only one: the main characters of Ed McBain's 87 precinct series are referred to as actual living people in one of the first chapters (can't find the place now, a student of mine has my copy. Again.).

[Randall Flagg]

Do you mean Edward M. Norris, lieutenant of police, detective squad, in the Big Apple's 87th Precinct.?

[Jean]

No. Somewhere in the first chapters, when the flu is only beginning, there is a wide panorama (characteristic for this book) of small events not connected with each other by nothing but the flu; some cops are coming back from vacation, and they discuss their precinct (87) and actually mention Carella and his kids; maybe some other McBain cops, too, I can't remember now. My copy has been constantly read by my students for five years now...

[Randall Flagg]

.

On his way out, a station wagon pulled in. There was a roofrack on top, and the wagon was piled high with kids and luggage. The wagon had New York plates and the driver, who rolled down his window to ask Harry how to get to US 21 going north, had a New York accent. Harry gave the New York fellow very clear directions on how to get to Highway 21. He also served him and his entire family their deathwarrants without even knowing it.
The New Yorker was Edward M. Norris, lieutenant of police, detective squad, in the Big Apple's 87th Precinct. This was his first real vacation in five years. He and his family had had a fine time. The kids had been in seventhheaven at Disney World in Orlando, and not knowing the whole family would-be dead by the second of July, Norris planned to tell that sour son of a bitch Steve Carella that it was possible to take your wife and kids someplace by car and have a good time. Steve, he would say, you may be a fine detective, but a man who can't police his own family ain't worth a pisshole drilled in a snowbank.
The Norris family had a kwik-eat at Babe's, then followed Harry Trent's admirable directions to Highway 21. Ed and his wife Trish marveled over southern hospitality while the three kids colored in the back seat. Christ only knew, Ed thought, what Carella's pair of monsters would have been up to.
That night they stayed in a Eustace, Oklahoma, travel court. Ed and Trish infected the clerk. The kids, Marsha, Stanley, and Hector, infected the kids they played with on the tourist court's playground-kids bound for west Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, and Tennessee. Trish infected the two women who were washing clothes at the Laundromat two blocks away. Ed, on his way down the motel corridor to get some ice, infected a fellow he passed in the hallway. Everybody got into the act.
Trish woke Ed up in the early morning hours to tell him that Heck, the baby, was sick. He had an ugly, rasping cough and was running a fever. It sounded to her like the croup. Ed Norris groaned and told her to give the kid some aspirin. If the kid's goddam croup could only have held off another four or five days, he could have had it in his very own house and Ed would have been left with the memory of a perfect vacation (not to mention the anticipation of all that gloating he planned to do). He could hear the poor kid through the connecting door, hacking away like a hound dog.
Trish expected that Hector's symptoms would abate in the morning-croup was a lying-down sickness-but by noon of the twentieth, she admitted to herself that it wasn't happening. The aspirin wasn't controlling the fever; poor Heck was just glass-eyed with it. His cough had taken on a booming note she didn't like, and his respiration sounded labored and phlegmy. Whatever it was, Marsha seemed to be coming down with it, too, and Trish had a nasty little tickle in the back of her own throat that was making her cough, although so far it was only a light cough she could smother in a small hankie.
"We've got to get Heck to a doctor," she said finally.
Ed pulled into a service station and checked the map paperclipped to the station wagon's sun-visor. They were in Hammer Crossing, Kansas. "I don't know," he said. "Maybe we can at least find a doctor who'll give us a referral." He sighed and ran an aggravated hand through his hair. "Hammer Crossing, Kansas! Jesus! Why'd he have to get sick, enough to need a doctor at some goddam nothing place like this?•"
Marsha, who was looking at the map over her father's shoulder, said: "It says
Jesse James robbed the bank here, Daddy. Twice." Fuck Jesse James," Ed grumped. "Ed!" Trish cried. "Sorry," he said, not feeling sorry in the least. He drove on. After six calls, during each of which Ed Norris carefully held his temper with
both hands, he finally found a doctor in Polliston who would look at Hector if they could get him there by three. Polliston was off their route, twenty miles west of Hammer Crossing, but now the important thing was Hector. Ed was getting very worried about him. He'd never seen the kid with so little oomph in him.
They were waiting in the outer office of Dr. Brenden Sweeney by two in the afternoon. By then Ed was sneezing, too. Sweeney's waiting room was full; they didn't get in to see the doctor until nearly four o'clock. Trish couldn't rouse Heck to more than a sludgy semiconsciousness, and she felt feverish herself. Only Stan Norris, age nine, still felt good enough to fidget.
During their wait in Sweeney's office they communicated the sickness which would soon be known across the disintegrating country as Captain Trips to more than twenty-five people, including a matronly woman who just came in to pay her bill before going on to pass the disease to her entire bridge club.

[Jean]

yes, that's it! I didn't remember Norris because I don't remember him from McBain.

[ManOfWesternesse]

To Jayson's question:
I think the W&G Kansas is not in The Stand World - it's a parallel world that had it's own Superflu (probably one of many - all with differing outcomes).

I always took The Stand World to be 'our' World - though that's just an initial impression, never revised eg. for the impression after W&G that there are many 'Stand' Worlds. (if that makes sense?)

[blackrose22]

This thread is one of the best I've read on the forum. The amount of different insights people have of the different characters is class, some agreeing and some completely different. I love both versions of the book with the uncut version been my favorite. The extra background information in the re release was great to read. To me the Topeka in W&G is the same one as The Stand.
I was recently given an audio version of The Stand by a friend and now can't wait to listen to it.

[Odetta]

This thread is one of the best I've read on the forum. The amount of different insights people have of the different characters is class, some agreeing and some completely different. I love both versions of the book with the uncut version been my favorite. The extra background information in the re release was great to read. To me the Topeka in W&G is the same one as The Stand.
I was recently given an audio version of The Stand by a friend and now can't wait to listen to it.

I, for one, am glad you are enjoying it as much as I do! :wub:

[jayson]

The Stand makes for great conversation, even before it was necessarily a Tower-connected book. It was always my fav aside from the DT books and got a re-read at least every couple of years. I too am glad so many participate in this thread.

[Darkthoughts]

Are there any other tv/movie versions of The Stand other than the one with Rob Lowe in it? I saw a couple of episodes for the first time yesterday and it was kinda cheesy!

[Brice]

No, that's the only version of it Lisa.

[MonteGss]

It has been too many years since I've read The Stand. I need to get to it again soon!

I've seen audio versions on eBay but none of them are the Complete and Uncut version so they don't interest me. :)

[Brice]

Have you read the original version Monte?

[MonteGss]

Oh yes. I own both. I first read the original version but when the Complete came out in paperback I bought that as well. Actually, did the Complete even come out in hardcover?

The Stand is probably my second favorite non-DT King book. :)

[Brice]

Are you asking about the complete and uncut in HC? Yes, I have a few of them.

The stand holds a special place in my heart too. It was one of (I believe the) first King books I read many many years ago.

[MonteGss]

I figured it was released in HC but when I was a young teenager (when i first started with King) I wasn't too keen on anything but mm paperbacks.

Being on this site makes me wonder if I should start searching out some first edition HC for specific King books though, namely The Stand.

I first read The Stand when I was about 12-14 I think. It is a fantastic book but IT was the first really long book I read when I was younger and I loved it so much. It has a special place in my heart. :)

[Brice]

Oh, It does for me also. I've read it quite alot.

[John_and_Yoko]

I liked the concept of The Stand--and Glen Bateman's commentaries were probably my favorite parts of it--but after reading it, I wasn't so sure why it was Stephen King's most popular book. Honestly I prefer The Dark Tower books, although I did enjoy the nod to The Stand in The Waste Lands and especially Wizard and Glass.

Don't get me wrong, though--I did like The Stand. It was well-thought out, for the most part, and I was able to keep in mind all the characters and all their story threads (not an easy thing for me). I kind of thought of it as like Watership Down, really--the characters forced to leave their homes due to a crisis, starting a new civilization, and a battle between good and evil at the end.

The only thing that surprised me was Fran's baby. Maybe this is because I saw the end of the miniseries first but I thought the baby was going to be a girl, and was surprised that it was a boy.

Maybe political correctness in the miniseries? I really don't think it added much, or needed to be done....

Anyway, I am glad I read The Stand, I just doubt I'll be reading it again--at least, anytime soon.

"M-O-O-N, that spells 'moon'...."

[Mordred Deschain]

The stand holds a special place in my heart too. It was one of (I believe the) first King books I read many many years ago.

Me too! Along with Skeleton Crew!

[Mark]

I love The Stand. It was the second SK book i read (after The Gunslinger) It reminds me of my Mum's ex boyfriend, he was really cool. He lent it me, but because they don't talk much, i cant borrow it again, so i can't do a re-read.

[AIMB]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=6525151

am i just behind the times? is there anymore information on this

the stand as a comic book:onfire: :onfire: :onfire: :onfire: :excited:

[jayson]

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=6525151

am i just behind the times? is there anymore information on this

the stand as a comic book:onfire: :onfire: :onfire: :onfire: :excited:

the first i heard of it was the recent NPR interview with King [there's a thread for it somewhere where you can hear the archived version]. King mentions it in the interview but there isn't much more detail.

[Brice]

I am very excited about this.

AIMB, it's good to see you again.

<----quiddityquest from .net

[mia/susannah]

I love the Stand. I only have the uncut version. It was one of the first books that I read when I started reading SK. Great Book. My all time favorite non DT book,

[ladysai]

Sounds like they're still kicking it around.
I'll start getting excited whenever Marvel sets a release date.
:)

[AIMB]

I am very excited about this.

AIMB, it's good to see you again.

<----quiddityquest from .net



yes its good to see everybody! i wish i had more sleepless nights online like i used to to hang out with you guys :( being busy all the time is the worst:scared:

[Brice]

I am very excited about this.

AIMB, it's good to see you again.

<----quiddityquest from .net



yes its good to see everybody! i wish i had more sleepless nights online like i used to to hang out with you guys :( being busy all the time is the worst:scared:

Well....in this case...I'll hope you get some sleepless nights. :D

[MaraJShakespeare]

Years ago, when I read The Stand: Complete & Uncut for the first time, I read King's preface without really understanding his point in any but the loosest intellectual sense. Having never read the book before in any form (and at the time, all the King I'd read was Four Past Midnight, IT and 'Salem's Lot), I wasn't familiar with either the story or the history of what is perhaps King's best loved novel, so I just enjoyed his preface for its humour and for King's casual, 'just shootin' the breeze' style. Now, many years later, I have read the unexpurgated version seven times. I've read the rest of his books at least once, most of them more than once (IT is the only other one that equals The Stand, with seven readings), probably averaging out at 3-5 readings per book (with the exceptions of Gerald's Game, which I can't stand, and The Regulators, which I didn't really like, either). But there was one book, technically, that I had never read; there didn't seem to be any reason why I should. I didn't even own a copy; after all, if it wasn't a first edition, what was the point? That book, of course, is the original version of The Stand.

Recently, I scored a first edition of the 1978 book, in excellent condition overall (the dust jacket is a bit battered, but not clipped, and is now covered in plastic to prevent further wear & tear) for under $100. Not having anything more important to do at the moment, I decided to read it at long last. After all, how can I call myself an expert if I don't really know the difference between cut and uncut? Well, I am now just past the half-way point- the folks in Boulder are getting ready for the first public meeting- and I already see King's point in the afformentioned preface. It really is amazing how many of the little-yet-crucial details are missing; how much of the rich characterisation and action is missing. It goes a lot deeper than just The Kid. So many incidents that, in the uncut version, seem to propel the story aren't there. It's still a great book, damn near impossible to put down, but there is more missing than the page numbers let on. I always wondered if there was really any point in restoring the missing text; was King right in his preface, or was the whole thing mere authorly indulgence? Even now, just past the half-way point, I can provide an answer: a most emphatic yes to the first, and no to the latter! King was absolutely right in the opening remarks of the uncut Stand, and now I understand exactly what he meant. Even at over 800 pages, the cut Stand is too damn short! If you don't remember it, or are one of those readers who skip such things, go back and read the preface to the uncut Stand for a fuller grasp of my point here. He's absolutely right and fully justified; it did need restored, and for exactly the reasons he gives. When I finish the cut version, I may come back in here to describe the differences between the two versions more fully, as a public service to the interested. I may even start a new thread for the purpose. Stay tuned. . .

[Darkthoughts]

I'm pretty sure that somewhere in this thread, someone already posted a link to a comprehensive and detailed list of the differences between the two ;)

[Nix_Toren]

Hey, dudes.

Randomly, The Stand was the very first King novel I ever read... I just saw a paperback copy in a bookstore, thought "that looks cool" and decided to try it. I've now read it all the way through three times, and it remains my all-time favourite SK book other than the Dark Tower series. I just really connected with the book the first time... and every time I go back, I find something new, something I missed before, or I read a section and I see it differently.

(my favourite of the DT books - and my favourite overall - is Wolves of the Calla.)

[iscream22]

Oh i love The Stand. Most def my favorite Stephen King novel. Its filled with so much great character development and when you read the book its like the story naturally unfolds in your mind. Unfortuneately i saw the TV miniseries first about 4 years ago, which was not bad, i thought it was pretty good, not amazing but decent. Then i read the novel around a year ago and loved it. Then i read it again this year and loved it even more than this year i got started on the Dark Tower series and now im on Dark Tower 7 which so far is very good although i heard the ending is kind of cliffhanger.

[ZGDK]

I was wondering what you guys thought of the ending to The Stand? Personally I was kind of dissapointed. I thought using the a-bomb to blow up Vegas was cool and all but I kind of wish there had been an actual confrontation. It just felt the whole books built up to "The Stand" and then kaboom. The Stand is my favorite SK, no my favorite book of all time, but the ending felt lackluster.

[razz]

i kinda found it corny.

[The Lady of Shadows]

sorry razzle dazzle, a one line response is so not gonna get it this time. what, precisely, did you find corny with the ending? was it the finger of god? the long journey back for stu and tom? the very ending when stu and fran were at Mother Abigail's house talking about everything that had happened back in Boulder?

let us in. say thankya.

[razz]

truly don't know, it just seemed corny. not real. not the kind of ending that would occur with the sort of god King depicted in the novel

[The Lady of Shadows]

so i'm reading song of susannah now. and susannah says to mia "promised? promised by whom?" and that caught me for the first time (after how many rereads!).

it's a total echo of what nadine says to flagg when he greets her for the first time, isn't it? doesn't he say to her something like "nadine, as promised." and she says "promised? promised by whom?"

i don't know why that caught me this time but it did.

[Odetta]

truly don't know, it just seemed corny. not real. not the kind of ending that would occur with the sort of god King depicted in the novel

what would you have preferred?

[Matt]

I think if you take the book in a religious context (as I am convinced it was intended), the ending was perfectly fitting. Trashy was a tool of God.

[razz]

touche

[Mordred Deschain]

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=55192

[Tiffany]

I'm re-reading The Stand and I'm almost finished. I love it just as much as I did the first time only...

..I'm discovering that I really don't like Fran. I don't know if it's because I can only picture her as Molly Ringwald (whom I don't care for) or what. I really found myself disliking her when she and Harold first met Stu and shortly thereafter. It bugged me that she'd walk on eggshells for that little weasel but it bugged me even more that she'd allow herself to be 'owned' by him. I haven't liked her since.

And even when he made that remark about her being his, all she got was one line saying, "Nobody owns me, Harold." That was it. I guess I just feel like if I'd been in her shoes, I'd have had more to say about that, even if he is only a kid.

Maybe since I don't have any children, the self-preservation aspect of pregnancy is totally lost on me but I still don't like her.

[Darkthoughts]

I was also surprised to find I didn't like her as much on re-reading recently. Can't remember the exact reasons, but I think they were similar to yours - she could be fiery at inappropriate moments so perhaps it annoyed me that she couldn't apply that anger when it was relevant.

[Tiffany]

Yeah. She just seemed a bit whiny and a little part of me hated her for putting up with Harold's shit. You're pregnant, girl! Stand up for yourself and have a little bit of pride.

I'm glad I'm not alone in disliking her a bit. It's gotten to where I can't wait for her appearances in the book to be over.

[Darkthoughts]

I also hated the way she submitted to her mothers bullying...grrr!

[Tiffany]

She's been consistently submissive, and (like you said) fiery at totally inappropriate moments. Thanks for helping me to put my finger on just exactly why I dislike her.

I wanted her to shut up, too, when Mother Abigail was telling the four fellows to go west.

[Matt]

I agree, I never got the impression that Fran would....Stand.

[Tiffany]

No, not at all.

I do love me some Tom Cullen, though. And Nick. I teared up a bit when the guys went to tell Tom it was time to go.

[Jean]

and I love Fran... and have always thought that she would - stand.

Got to re-read it, maybe, but that isn't going to happen any time soon, with that trunkful of books I've just brought from England (half of which got there thanks to my dear friendshttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif)

[Matt]

Your welcome, I hope you love the typewriter book. :wub:

As far as Fran, I just always got the impression that she didn't give a shit about the world at large or the struggle for good and evil.

She just wanted to have a family and be happy. That's not a bad thing by any stretch and she would certainly "Stand" for them. Just wasn't too much into the whole struggle in a larger sense.

[Odetta]

I loved Fran until I saw the miniseries... Molly Ringwald made her too whiny compared to the book, IMO

[Tiffany]

Molly Ringwald made her incredibly whiny but I felt she was a bit whiny in the books.

She didn't stand up to her mother or Harold. That really got under my skin, especially with Harold, creepy weasel-fuck that he was.

[Darkthoughts]

"Creepy weasel-fuck" :lol: I may have to start using that!

I've never seen the mini-series.

[Matt]

I'm basing my impression completely on the character in the book. I wrote off Molly a long time ago and even a re read doesn't bring her to mind.

I can shut off that way. :lol:

[jayson]

I've never seen the mini-series.

You're so lucky. I still try to erase it from my memory when I re-read.

[Odetta]

I'm basing my impression completely on the character in the book. I wrote off Molly a long time ago and even a re read doesn't bring her to mind.

I can shut off that way. :lol:

I wish I could

[Jean]

I'm basing my impression completely on the character in the book.
So do I. Bears generally hardly ever perceive anything visually, it's only the verbal component that counts for us. Nothing I saw would change anything in what I read.

[ChildofBodom]

I just finished re-reading it, and one thing always made me wonder. Did Starkey unleash the Super Flu in Russia and China also? When he tells Len to give the order Rome Falls, that is.

My favorite part of the book has to be the rioting durning the Superflu. I'm shocked not many people are bringing that up.

[Jean]

I just finished re-reading it, and one thing always made me wonder. Did Starkey unleash the Super Flu in Russia and China also? When he tells Len to give the order Rome Falls, that is.
the problem with The Stand is that reading it you get only vague impression that anything also happens in other parts of the world... that there is such a notion as foreign policy and relationships between countries... or that those other countries exist at all. In fact, it's a problem I personally have with all King books, but when the end of the world is described, it becomes somehow blatant.

[Tony_A]

No, not at all.

I do love me some Tom Cullen, though. And Nick. I teared up a bit when the guys went to tell Tom it was time to go.

Tom is one of my favorite characters in the book. I always have a soft spot for guys like that, who would do anything for you and never ask for anything in return, no matter the intellect.

Need to do a re-read. Will probably do it once I finish re-reading Dark Tower (down to book 7).

I immediately thought of Tom in "Wolves of the Calla" when Jake told Oy to wake him up when the moon was out. All I could think of was "M-O-O-N spells moon."

[Steve]

Can anyone post the French paperback cover of The Stand up here? All I can find are the thumbnails of the three-volume set and the artwork was so badass... can anyone help?

[Odetta]

I just finished re-reading it, and one thing always made me wonder. Did Starkey unleash the Super Flu in Russia and China also? When he tells Len to give the order Rome Falls, that is.
the problem with The Stand is that reading it you get only vague impression that anything also happens in other parts of the world... that there is such a notion as foreign policy and relationships between countries... or that those other countries exist at all. In fact, it's a problem I personally have with all King books, but when the end of the world is described, it becomes somehow blatant.

well, that's just because of where King lives... maybe he didn't know enough about any other countries to include the rest of the world.

[Darkthoughts]

I respect that in an author - ie, not winging it too much where other countries/cultures are concerned.

[obscurejude]

I respect that in an author - ie, not winging it too much where other countries/cultures are concerned.

I think its a strength too, for the most part Lisa, but if fear of ethnocentricity is a concern, why write an apocalyptic novel in the prime of your youth? I can understand why Jean might get frustrated, and Cell kindly left out the rest of the world too. Do you think he made any progress, in this regard, between ages 25 and 55? Sometimes I think of the Stand when I hear the Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Californication." I don't know why California, and maybe Vegas by extension, is continually heralded as the epitome of western civilization.

Ehh, I'm kind of torn on this. Its probably better to not do it all rather than do it badly, but Jean has a point about it being in all of King's works. It makes sense that these tensions would come out the most vividly when he's creating global apocalyptic settings without mentioning the rest of the world. :shrugs:

Jean, I promise that if I write a novel about the world ending, I'll throw out a nod toward Russia. :couple:

[ManOfWesternesse]

I just finished re-reading it, and one thing always made me wonder. Did Starkey unleash the Super Flu in Russia and China also? When he tells Len to give the order Rome Falls, that is...

Yes, there's no doubt that's exactly what they did, the order was to make sure everyone started from a level playing field again. "Share, and share alike...."