Cinema Paradiso - The DT Movie Club

[Darkthoughts]

The basic premise being, we all agree (by way of recommendations and/or a vote) on a movie to watch within a two week time frame, then review and discuss in here.

Please use spoiler tags when posting reviews.

Anyone have a suggestion for our first movie?

[Heather19]

Excellent! I'm in :D

I'd like to suggest East of Eden (1955). I've been harassing feev to watch this film forever now, so I thought this would be a good opportunity :lol: Not to mention it's a wonderful film, and could lead to some good discussions.

[DoctorDodge]

I'd be down for that, but only if the next one is Withnail & I! :lol:

[alkanto]

YES! :lol: Any excuse to watch it again, really!

Though, I should let it be known that I will watch almost anything, if the group agrees....but I'll be a lot happier with the world if it was W&I :lol:

[fernandito]

East of Eden has my vote too :)

[Jean]

bears second Withnail. Of course.

[Darkthoughts]

I've never seen East Of Eden and I'm always up for a Withnail rewatch. Shall we say East of Eden first, as Heather more or less called dibs :D then Withnail?

[Jean]

bears agree

[fernandito]

Sounds good to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[educatedlady]

I'd like to play along...as long as I can find the movies.

[fernandito]

Do you have Netflix ?

[Heather19]

Excellent! I'm so excited for you guys to watch it. And I'll be doing my rewatch sometime this weekend :D

[educatedlady]

Yes & no. My roommate has netflix but I can only access it when he is there.

[Darkthoughts]

Cool, I'll get hold of it too - probably be in the week for me :)

[alkanto]

so do we have an official time frame for this? As in, a specific date by which we have to watch the movie?

[fernandito]

I guess once we all agree on a movie, Lisa or whoever can set a time frame. Assuming that the film that is chosen is not available online or through instant watch, we'll have to add a buffer for the time it takes to arrive at our house.

Lisa ?

[Darkthoughts]

I was thinking two weeks for each film once a film's been decided on, so if we all try to get hold of it and have watched it by the 16th September?

[fernandito]

Two weeks sounds perfect.

Alright, so because I'm a sucker for formalities (and sorry for hi jacking the thread Lisa :blush:)


Our first film is : East of Eden (1955) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048028/)

Discussion date : 9/16/11
http://thisdistractedglobe.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/Eden.jpg

[alkanto]

Fantastic :thumbsup:

Adding it to the Netflix queue....now.

[Heather19]

:D

[Darkthoughts]

Not at all Feev - feel free to do that all the time :D :thumbsup:

[Still Servant]

This is such a great idea for a thread. I hope to participate as much as possible.

East of Eden is a great film. I watched it upon Heather's recommendation. I think Dean gets a lot of attention for Rebel Without A Cause, which is also a great film, but I think he does an even better job in East of Eden. Okay. I will stop there and save the rest for when we can all discuss it.

[Mattrick]

My choice for film watching is...The Conversation as film three. I know most you haven't seen it and it is EXCELLENT.

[Darkthoughts]

Aha! I saw a clip of that on a documentary a while ago and added it to my rental list, haven't been sent it yet though, so that'll be one to look forward to.

Cheers SS, glad you're onboard :thumbsup:

[Darkthoughts]

Well, I have to admit that that was my first James Dean film ever :blush: But now I see what the hype is all about, he's very unique, I liked him a lot.

It was an interesting era to set the film in, not quite frontiersville but not quite modern, I was really in to that aspect of it. I felt really sorry for Gus, the German shoemaker, I imagine scenes like that must really have happened - well, still do I guess, as I'm sure most Muslims could tell you. I loved the mother's character, hiding away pining for her lost youth and regretting missing out on her sons do you think? She certainly didn't miss life as a wife, but she seemed to want to have a relationship with Cal at least.

[alkanto]

I might be a little late with this one...the local Netflix didn't have it, and they told me I would get it within the next 3-5 days...which was yesterday. I'll try and discuss it as much as possible when I do watch it, though!

[Mattrick]

I'll have wait until Next month when I get Netflix back to be able to partake but I'll catch up then.

[Heather19]

Lisa! Isn't he amazing?! Sorry I could go on and on :lol: But he has such a unique quality about him, unlike any other actor I've ever seen. He has this sort of unpredictability to him where you're just not quite sure what he's going to do next. I love it.

Well enough about him and onto the film...

What I loved most about it was the onscreen relationship between Cal and his father. You can really feel the tension and uneasiness in their scenes. I think alot of that is partly due to Dean's method of acting. He made it so that Raymond Massey felt for him, what Adam felt for Cal. One of my all-time favorite film moments is the birthday party scene. It makes me want to cry every time I watch it. It's just so heartbreaking.

As for the mom, I think she did kinda feel that she missed out some. I think she saw Cal as someone just like her, and that made her long for that bond. At least that's the impression I got from the film. Have you read the book by any chance? I've heard they're pretty different.

[Darkthoughts]

No, I had no idea there was a book - great!

Yes, I can imagine Raymond Massey feeling just that, as with Munroe, there's something very childlike and vunerable about Dean that I don't think was entirely to do with the character. The birthday scene is heartbreaking, especially after you've watched him apply himself in his work and business dealings and start earning his father's respect. It was funny to watch how Aaron went from sticking up for Cal to being so jealous and vindictive towards him. In that way I thought he was more like his mother in his underlying personality and Cal really more like his father, he only spoke of being "bad" all the time because that's how he'd been labelled, when really he placed much more value on people he thought were good (ie, his father and Abra).

[Jean]

the only reason why I am procrastinating now is that I hated the book.

[Darkthoughts]

Oh no, why so? The narrative or the story itself?

[Jean]

actually, both. Maybe I just read it at the wrong time (although I've never been a fan of Steinbeck anyway), but it seemed to me "epic" in the worst sense of the word: ponderous, boring and curiously devoid of any kind of humor; "serious literature" of the kind I normally avoid.

[Heather19]

Well I've heard it's very different from the book Jean. So I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the film.

And Lisa, you make a good point about Cal/Father and Aron/Mother. I hadn't really thought about it, but I do see that now. And look at who's left at the end of film, and the groups they form. Aron has abandoned his family like his mother, and Cal remains with Abra and his Father.

[Darkthoughts]

Duh, I hadn't even realised it was Steinbeck...:blush:

[Still Servant]

I thought today was the deadline for East of Eden, but since nobody has discussed the film yet, I don't want to give anything away. I would like to post my favorite scene from the film. I just love how it shot. The swaying of the camera and everything is perfect. Great scene.

http://youtu.be/2uG4PRf6ROM

[Heather19]

I love it Mike! Actually the camera work in the film is really good. There are a lot of scenes where he's got the camera slightly tilted and such, and it just adds this uneasiness or claustrophobic feeling to the scene. The one where they're reading from the bible is another one that stands out strongly in my mind.

Have you seen the film James Dean yet by any chance?

[Still Servant]

I love it Mike! Actually the camera work in the film is really good. There are a lot of scenes where he's got the camera slightly tilted and such, and it just adds this uneasiness or claustrophobic feeling to the scene. The one where they're reading from the bible is another one that stands out strongly in my mind.

Have you seen the film James Dean yet by any chance?

Heather, I've had the James Dean movie in my Netflix queue for a while, but for some reason it's been listed as "save". Hopefully it will become available soon. I'm going to post my review of East of Eden. Maybe it will get the ball rolling:

Growing up, I always heard the name James Dean linked to his performance in Rebel Without a Cause. It's more well known than East of Eden, but after watching both films, I can honestly say that Dean's performance in Eden is a more powerful performance.

From the first moment Dean appears on screen, it's impossible to take your eyes off of him. Dean gives an amazing, layered performance as Cal Trask, a son looking for answers about the supposed death of his mother and longing for the approval of his father.

In East of Eden, Dean is the original "Emo". He's brooding, angry, sad and haunting; sometimes all in the same scene.

East of Eden is basically a tale of good versus evil. Cal being the evil and his brother Aron being the good. The parallels to the Bible's Caine and Abel are obviously apparent.

Sibling rivalry in film is endlessly entertaining for me. Both of my parents have a sibling of the same sex. They often tell me (and my twin sister) about some of the struggles of growing up with a sibling of the same gender.

East of Eden is also a beautifully shot film. There are a few scenes where the camera is tilted and off kilter. It helps to add a sense of discomfort and disorientation. My favorite scene is the one where Dean is on a swing and is having a conversation with his father. Dean only replies to his father while in the foreground. Also, the gentle swaying of the camera adds to the building tension.

Probably my favorite shot from the film is where Cal has just left his brother with his mother, and stands out in the hallway. He casts a demented shadow on the floor that grows larger as he begins walking. Just good stuff.

Without giving too much away, the most memorable scene is when Cal tries to give his father the money. The scene is so sad and chilling. Anybody who has ever been denied appreciation for an accomplishment from a parent, will probably be brought to tears.

In the end, I think East of Eden has kind of gotten overshadowed by Rebel Without a Cause. Kind of like how Cal gets overshadowed by his brother. A pure must see classic indeed.

[Darkthoughts]

The original emo :lol: That made me laugh, but also very apt!

Ok, if you catch up late please feel free to continue discussing East Of Eden, but we're now moving on to our second movie which is Withnail And I. You have up to the 3rd October to watch it, you can discuss as soon as you've seen it, but spoiler tag your discussion if you post before that date :thumbsup:

Feev, feel free to do the funky Imdb thang :D

[DoctorDodge]

Ok, it's gonna be a little late for me for me to discuss East of Eden, as I'm still waiting for it to arrive, but I will definitely watch and discuss asap.

Discussion on Withnail & I, though? Yes, that, I most certainly can do right away! :D

"I fuck arses? Who fucks arses?"

...

"Maybe he fucks arses!" :lol: I did a pretty in-depth review on it a while back, I can repost it here if anyone wishes, but I'm certainly looking forward to reading everyone's elses thoughts on this one! I wonder if Jean will like it? Probably not his thing...

;)

[Jean]

grrrr, I won't be participating till mid-October. I will be online about half-hour every day only, and won't watch any movies - will be traveling (if everything goes well). It breaks my heart that I've been unable to take part in East of Eaden discussion, and especially that W&I will be watched without bears...

: hangs head :

[Darkthoughts]

Oh, you know what bunch of procrastinators we are, we probably won't be discussing Withnail until then anyway :lol:

[Jean]

this is a huge consolation!

procrastinate, guys! speed kills; slow and steady wins the race. Never put off till tomorrow what you can do next week!

[Darkthoughts]

Well, let's watch Matt's film first, that way you definitely won't miss out Jean :couple:

So, next up:

The Conversation

Deadline 3rd October Any discussion before the 3rd to be spoiler tagged :thumbsup:

[DoctorDodge]

grrrr, I won't be participating till mid-October. I will be online about half-hour every day only, and won't watch any movies - will be traveling (if everything goes well). It breaks my heart that I've been unable to take part in East of Eaden discussion, and especially that W&I will be watched without bears...

: hangs head :

This makes me sad to read, bears. Hope the travelling goes well though. And besides, you know me: I'm always ready to discuss Withnail & I, so I'm sure I'll have some discussion left for you when you do get the chance to take part! :lol:

[Jean]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gifhttp://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Mattrick]

Well this is a splendid turn of events. I'll have to download The Conversation to watch it again.

[DoctorDodge]

The Conversation's been added to the Lovefilm rental list, right after East of Eden. But don't forget to be on the lookout for Withnail & I as well, Mattrick. That's one film you won't regret watching, I promise you! Shame that my chance for a really good excuse to discuss the film has been delayed, but it's all for the better if bears can join in, too. I know he loves the film as much as I do, after all!

[Jean]

Yes!

[Mattrick]

You better post your thoughts on the conversation when you get back Jean!

[Heather19]

Heather, I've had the James Dean movie in my Netflix queue for a while, but for some reason it's been listed as "save". Hopefully it will become available soon. I'm going to post my review of East of Eden. Maybe it will get the ball rolling:

Growing up, I always heard the name James Dean linked to his performance in Rebel Without a Cause. It's more well known than East of Eden, but after watching both films, I can honestly say that Dean's performance in Eden is a more powerful performance.

From the first moment Dean appears on screen, it's impossible to take your eyes off of him. Dean gives an amazing, layered performance as Cal Trask, a son looking for answers about the supposed death of his mother and longing for the approval of his father.

In East of Eden, Dean is the original "Emo". He's brooding, angry, sad and haunting; sometimes all in the same scene.

East of Eden is basically a tale of good versus evil. Cal being the evil and his brother Aron being the good. The parallels to the Bible's Caine and Abel are obviously apparent.

Sibling rivalry in film is endlessly entertaining for me. Both of my parents have a sibling of the same sex. They often tell me (and my twin sister) about some of the struggles of growing up with a sibling of the same gender.

East of Eden is also a beautifully shot film. There are a few scenes where the camera is tilted and off kilter. It helps to add a sense of discomfort and disorientation. My favorite scene is the one where Dean is on a swing and is having a conversation with his father. Dean only replies to his father while in the foreground. Also, the gentle swaying of the camera adds to the building tension.

Probably my favorite shot from the film is where Cal has just left his brother with his mother, and stands out in the hallway. He casts a demented shadow on the floor that grows larger as he begins walking. Just good stuff.

Without giving too much away, the most memorable scene is when Cal tries to give his father the money. The scene is so sad and chilling. Anybody who has ever been denied appreciation for an accomplishment from a parent, will probably be brought to tears.

In the end, I think East of Eden has kind of gotten overshadowed by Rebel Without a Cause. Kind of like how Cal gets overshadowed by his brother. A pure must see classic indeed.

Oh that's a bummer. I did find it on youtube, but I think you're just better off buying it cause the quality isn't the greatest. Lisa I'd also recommend checking it out.

As for the film, I completely agree about Dean. I think it's probably my favorite performance by an actor. He just gives such a powerful, emotional performance. You can literally feel every drop of emotion that comes out of him. I love him in Rebel Without a Cause as well, but this is the one that I always tell people to watch to really see what a truly great and unique actor he really is. Mike have you seen Giant or any of his other performances?

Back to the film, one of my favorite aspects of it is the camera work, which you mentioned as well. I think Kazan did an excellent job filming it. This is one thing that I always look for in films. The angles of the camera, and the movements, as subtle as some of them are, really do add to the power of some of the scenes. One of my other favorite scenes that you didn't mention, is the picnic table one. I don't know what it is about it, but it draws me in every time. It just has this pure innocent feel to it. And the one where he meets his mom for the first time. We see him walk down this long dark hallway in the shadows. You can feel this ominous presence about the whole thing. And then he kneels down before her. And in a sweet, very childlike voice asks if she'll talk to him, only to literally be dragged out. He seems like such a young lost child. It's such a sad scene.

Has anyone else watched it yet, or is it just me Mike and Lisa? Feev needs to get in here :nope:

[Jean]

You better post your thoughts on the conversation when you get back Jean! sir yes sir! I definitely will http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/0134-bear.gif

[Mattrick]

I started The Conversation last night and plan on finishing it in a bit then I'll post up my thoughts on the movie.

[Mattrick]

http://designmind.frogdesign.com/images/dm/late-spring-2007/conversation.jpg

Okay all in spoiler tags.

What strikes me so deep about this movie is the level of loneliness and isolation that Coppola is able to portray. Even when he's in the city you don't see anyone else, views from the windows of skyscrapers reveal a city that appears to be desolate. San Fransico is such a bright, lively and vibrant city and here Coppola shows it to be positvely dead and grey and unwelcoming. The warehouse where his office consists of a big empty space with shallow lighting, his work workspace is in a corner behind a steel cage. The cieling is held up by thin pillars with nothing to support them. This represents Harry Caul's entire world. He's a man who is entirely empty and void of personal relationships and almost all emotions. Everything that is Harry is locked inside of a cage and no one gets in there.

Harry is a surveillance expert who is paid to spy on people. Harry cannot let anyone into his own life but quietly forces his way into other people lives and makes a living at it. He's so good at it, in his field he is practically a celebrity but he doesn't enjoy what he does and thus cannot acknowledge his celebrity or feel good for the praise he receives; he does it because it's the only way he can relate to anyone; when they don't know he's listening.

We see he keeps a mistress but he has no wife or family to hide her from. He hides her from himself, keeps her at a distance so she cannot hurt him. When she starts asking him questions about himself he essentially leaves without a word. In a later scene when he brings colleagues from a convention to his office for a party, he reveals his feelings to her. He asks her 'if you loved a man who didn't reveal anything about himself or who he was, would you wait for him?' 'How would I know he loved me?' She responds. Harry obviously loved this woman but doesn't even know how to feel that love for himself. He exists outside of everyone and only inside his own mind. He pays his bills by spying on people for corporate espionage and he's very good at his job. Without the ability to personally connect with anyone, eavesdropping into others lives must be natural and yet very painful for him. He claims 'it doesn't matter what the conversation is about' but he's in denial to himself. He yearns to know what the conversation is about if only to live vicariously through someone else for a matter of moments. When Harry discovers a colleague planted a bug in a pen and recorded him, he freaks out. His privacy (which is all he has) is violated in the most viscious manner and he doesn't see it as a joke but an attack on his security. He knows the power of being recorded and is terrified of how he opened up to the woman, being used against him.

We learn he once lived in New York and moved to San Fransico after some people he spied on; a woman her her family, were tied up and decapitated because of his work. The guilt and shame of his involvement in their murders drove him away from the city. However he cannot stop his work because it's all he knows and all he's ever known, how to observe life but not live it. He senses something sinister in his employers during his current job and finds himself drawn into the conversation he recorded, consumed fear of what happened in New York happening again.

Without any flashbacks or backstory to speak of we do not know what made Harry how he currently is; maybe a trauma caused it, something aside fro mthe New York incident or maybe he'd always been like this, a hopeless introvert unable to allow anyone in. During the conversation he records the woman says, in regards to a homeless person, 'I always think this person was once a little baby who had a mother that loved him and now here he is, half freezing on a bench'. Harry was once a little baby who probably had a mother that loved him. Or maybe he didn't. That dialogue to me is poignant in how humans are. What becomes of us when we grow up and no longer have that mothers love? What do we do to try to fill that void? Harry may never of had that love or once had it so strong that when he no longer had it, had nothing at all. He's a baby lost in the world without a mother's love and the security that love brings.

The direction of Coppola is outstanding. His use of lines is amazing. The film is permeated with lines and they exist in almost every shot, giving the film a prison-like atmosphere. No matter where Harry goes or who he is with he's imprisoned in his own mind, shackled by his inability to feel or relate to another human being. Whether it's windows or the outside of a building, stair railings, wallpaper; it all gives up a feeling of claustrophobia and helplessness. We see many shots of chairs that are empty and the sole reason for a chairs existence is to be occupied, further adding to the lonelines of the film. The colours are dark and bleak with the only bright colours coming from lipstick, a half working neon sign, a television screen and the lively scenes of the convention and the opening recording sequence. There is a mime focused on during the credits which perfectly represents Harry, as someone who cannot talk to express himself and is trapped in a mute existence, hoping someone will see his pain and torment from his actions alone.

Hackman is so great in his portrayal of Caul. So much of his performance is in what he doesn't do. He's so introverted you can hardly tell what he's thinking or feeling in his actions. Harry's detatchment from the world oozes through in every scene.

Harry is so secretive of his personal information he wonders how his landlord not only knew it was his birthday or his age but how she got into his apartment, through the multiple locks and alarm. He insists that he wants the only set of keys. His landlord (though we cannot hear) wonders about emergencies if say a fire happened and his personal possessions. "I don't have any personal possessions. I only have my keys" and that is the truth. There is no emotional attachment to any material objects. The only thing that matters is his keys, not just to his apartment but his inner most thoughts, desires and his feelings. As long as he has the keys and no one else, he feels safe. When his employer gets his phone number (so far as he knows no one knows he even has a phone and he uses payphones to make his business calls) he wonders how they knows. "We keep dossiers on anyone who comes in contact with The Director" A young and impsing Harrison Ford says.

Caul is convinced his employers are going to use his recordings to harm the couple he recorded. He tries so hard to keep them. When he reveals parts of himself to a woman and feels safe within her reach, that is destroyed when he awakes to find she took off in the middle of the night with the recordings and gave them to his employer. However his employer merely says 'come by with the picture we want and get your money', they are not angry with Harry but simply couldn't take the chance of them being destroyed. We hear the conversation several times in the movie but have no idea why they are being spied on or why someone could want them dead. Harry rents out the hotel room next to the room they are supposed to meet in and plans on surveilling it. When he hears voices get raised and sees the woman pushed up against glass and a hand smears blood across it he breaks down. He becomes a child, not sure where to go without a mother to hold him and tell him everything will be alright. He crawls underneath the blankets and it is there he sleeps, for how long we do not know. He's ashamed of himself for acting this way; instead of intervening he merely watches and listens in horror as murder is commited due to his actions and is powerless to stop it.

When he awakes the picks the lock of the neighbouring room and inspects it; placecards on the pillows, ribbon on the toilet. It was not only clean but appeared to be recently made over by the hotel staff. He checks the shower and the drain for blood. He opens the toilet and it's clean. Not a spot of blood anywhere. When he flushes the toilet, blood gushes up like a geysers and begins to flow all over the bathroom floor as he looks on in complete horror. I'm unsure what to make of this scene as there isn't a clear cut explaination on whether this actually happened or what a manifestation of his own guilt and shame. The blood pours out from beneath and makes the clean water dirty with blood, much like how he appears serene on the outside but deep down he has blood on his hands, or at least feels he does.

We discover that it wasn't the people he recorded who were killed but the director himself. We see shots of the murder happening inside the hotel room but is that how it happened? The papers say it was a car wreck. How do you move a dead body from the 7th floor of a hotel and not get caught? Wouldn't a maid notice a bathroom floor full of blood? Perhaps this was not a literal translation of the murder but how Harry envisioned it in his own mind. Harry returns to his apartment and plays his saxophone, which appears to his only means of self expression and he only expresses it to himself. His phone rings, it's Harrison Ford, "We know that you know Mr. Caul, you should stay out of this." Harry freaks out. He starts checking his walls, electrical sockets, figurines (breaking his virgin mary one as a last resort) and when he discovers no bugs he starts tearing up the walls and the floors until nothing is left but a skeleton of an apartment. Again, we see many lines in this scene. He's in his prison and now there is nothing left in there at all except him and his saxophone and the one chair he is sitting in. The final shot perfectly personifies Harry's soul. There is nothing inside him but loneliness and self destruction and the gentle, yearning of his music he wishes someone would hear and love.


Looking forward to this discussion getting started :D

[DoctorDodge]

Ok, so I just finished watching East of Eden. I can see why there's a lot of hype around Dean, he was a rather excellent actor. I found the film to be a bit slow moving at times, but mostly I enjoyed it. As has been commented on here, the camera work is really good, especially with the swings and the bible scenes, and the complex relationships in the film between Cal and many others, not just his father as he constantly seeks his attention and his love (and while he succeeds in the former, for right or wrong reasons, he always fails in the latter), but also his brother (as has been remarked, the Caine and Abel parallels are obvious, perhaps a little too obvious, at times) and of course his brother's girlfriend.

Heather, it's times like this that I hate how impossible it is to watch some really great British films in the US, as I would suggest Quadrophenia as the 4th film to be watched, since I believe you would enjoy this film a lot, as well as many others on this board, except that it's not available in region 1, the bastards!

[Heather19]

I'm so glad you liked it, although I knew you would :D
And I remember I looked for that one before but couldn't find it.

[DoctorDodge]

Like i said, no region 1 release. You may have to look for it through...*ahem*...other means.

[Heather19]

I was thinking that, but you know my recent problems. Is it on youtube do you know?

[DoctorDodge]

Yes! Here's the link! You'll love it, I promise ya! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYBFRa7B32I

[alkanto]

And why have you never given me this link? I've been wanting to watch this movie for ages! (but I'm far too lazy to search for it myself on Youtube :P )

[DoctorDodge]

You never asked! :P

Seriously, I didn't think it would be on there. It wasn't even uploaded until a few months ago. So, the fact that I never looked it up for you Pond is still your fault! :P

[alkanto]

I know....I'm just one of those moods. I like being all smart-ass-y :lol:

[DoctorDodge]

Don't worry about it: I'd choose a smartass over a dumbass any day! :lol:

[Jean]

I'd choose a smartass over a dumbass any day! :lol: classic sig material

[DoctorDodge]

I do my best, Jean! :D

Oh, and the dvd of The Conversation arrived in the post yesterday, so I'll probably get round to watching that either tonight or in the weekend. Will read Mattrick's review and provide some discussion for him as soon as I can, anyway!

[Heather19]

I just got notice that it's on its way to my house. So I should be able to watch it soon. Right after Sherlock that is ;)

[DoctorDodge]

I just got notice that it's on its way to my house. So I should be able to watch it soon. Right after Sherlock that is ;)

:thumbsup:

[Heather19]

I watched The Conversation earlier today. I did have a really hard time getting into it. But your review Mattrick definitely helped me appreciate the film.

The scene with the toilet overflowing with blood, I interpreted it to be his imagination from his guilt of not stepping in. But you do have me wondering now whether or not the murder actually happened there. Did he imagine the whole thing taking place there because that's what he thought was going to happen? Or did they move the body? Or did it really happen in the hotel and there was no car accident?

[Mattrick]

Yeah it's not exactly an entertaining film either, but it's so well made and told. I enjoyed it much more on the second viewing. An interesting bit from Ebert's great movies entry: " As a child, Harry was paralyzed on one side, and nearly drowned during a bath. The word "Caul" has two meanings, both relevant: It is a spider's web, and the membrane that encloses a fetus. If it is found on a child's head after birth, we learn, "it is supposed to protect against drowning."

In the dream he has he explains the drowning and the partial paralysis. I don't think he's ever recovered emotionally from that; from the lonely feeling of drowning in a bath and the helplessness that comes from being partially paralyzed for awhile. His mother was supposed to be there to make sure he didn't drown and she was obviously out of the room. I think this has fueled his general distrust for people, especially women. I think he feels all women will eventually just let him drown if he comes to depend on them.

[Heather19]

Interesting, thanks.

[DoctorDodge]

Just finished watching it myself, and you're right, Mattrick, it is very well made. I love the fact that for practically the entire film (and this is something I enjoy in a lot of films when done right, and one reason why I'd suspect you really enjoy the original Life on Mars so much): we never leave Harry's perspective, and thus we're really drawn into his world, and no one else's. Not only are we made to see his paranoia and mistrust, but we're practically invited to share in it: as Heather pointed out, there a few moments when you really can't be sure if what's going on is actually happening or if it's the work of his own imagination. It is a bit difficult to get into, so if I had to rate it now, it would probably be 8/10, but I wouldn't object to watching it all over again, as many of my favourite films have needed 2nd viewings before I could fully take them in. I have to say that Gene Hackman really was absolutely brilliant from start to finish in it, getting all the loneliness and paranoia of Harry perfectly. Well, that's all i have to say on it, but I have to add that that's a great review you did, Mattrick. A lot of subtle, little things in the filmmaking that I missed the first time. One of your favourite films I'm guessing, then? Anyway, I'm glad you recommended it.

Now look for Withnail & I and start watching it now! :P

[Mattrick]

This was actually only my second viewing but it's one of my friends favourites and I watched it with him the first time.

[DoctorDodge]

Just peeking into this thread to ask a quick question: when's the Withnail & I discussion gonna start? (Doubtless, I'll probably be providing most of it, but still, I do like to do these things properly!) Or should we wait a little while longer for Jean to join in as well as give others longer to watch The Conversation?

[Jean]

YES WE SHOULD

[Mattrick]

I recommend for my next pick when it comes up is Synecdoche, New York. It's truly an incredible film with plenty of room for discussion over it. I'm not sure if Bears have seen it but I am sure Bears would love it.

[Jean]

bears already got it, will watch as soon as they are back home!

[Heather19]

So is anyone else currently watching The Conversation? And where did Lisa go? And when do we start our next film? :lol:

I was thinking we should get a list of those of us participating, and we keep cycling around? What do you guys think. And then we can add people if more decide to participate.

Heather - East of Eden
Mattrick - The Conversation
DD - Withnail and I
Lisa -
Jean -
?

[Brice]

I've never seen any of those movies.

[Jean]

there's no time like now

[Heather19]

Join in Brice! We've only watched the first two so far, you can still add to the discussions :)

[Brice]

Maybe when i have a day off from work i can catch up. :)

[DoctorDodge]

Ok, so it's been over a week since the last post, and I'm dying for some Withnail & I discussion! Anyone ready to start anytime soon?

[Heather19]

Yes, sounds good to me. I'll try to watch it in the next week or so :)

[DoctorDodge]

Excellent! Jean seems to finally have time to watch movies again, so I'm sure he'll want to take part. Now I just need to badger politely ask if feev and Mattrick will join us!

[Still Servant]

I watched the Conversation a few months back and although I enjoyed it, I can't exactly say I loved it. It's a very slow film and you really have to pay attention to the plot as it unfolds. It does a great job showing a man who is slowly isolating himself from the world. There are also a lot of themes about voyeurism that is even more relevant today. The ending is particularly well done.

[alkanto]

I know I've been ignoring this awesome thread for a while, but I will for sure join in on W&I discussion! I've been meaning to rewatch it anyways....and I will get around to other films, I promise! I have watched East of Eden, but I'm going to do a re-watch before I post my thoughts. And I'll have to find The Conversation, at some point....

[DoctorDodge]

Watched Withnail & I again last night. Still amazing. I think I'll wait for a few others to check it out first before providing any discussion, as considering how much I quote/recommend this film, I think we all know my views on it by now! :lol:

[Heather19]

I have watched East of Eden, but I'm going to do a re-watch before I post my thoughts.

You know I've been dying over here, waiting for you to come in here :lol:

And I'll try to watch Withnail and I this weekend :D

[DoctorDodge]

Excellent, BS! (Hmm, maybe not an acronym I'll be using in the future. Although it worked well enough for Broken Saints, at least.) Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it!

[Mattrick]

I'll get around to watching Withnail and I soon. Too tired to do it today after no sleep + babysitting, then I have 5 hours of wrestling plus Walking Dead and Dexter Sunday and Monday so those days are out. I'll probably download it Tuesday and watch it before Friday. I just watched 3 movies back to back to back last night so a little burned out atm.

[DoctorDodge]

A spoiler free review, cut and pasted from when I tried doing reviews for that listen of Baker's Dozen Greatest British Movies (never did get round to finishing that. Might've been because the Hitchhiker's Guide movie was on it). I'll probably add some fresh discussion later, but for those who don't initially "get" the film (yes, I'm looking at you two, Heather and Shannon! :P), here's a few reasons why I love this movie.


Well, makes sense to start off with one that I not only recommended but it is in dire need of an in-depth review. So why do I think it's such a great British film?

I'll start with the obvious: the script. Specifically, how it's easily one of the funniest and most quotable scripts a movie can have. So with lines like, "You wouldn't spike me, you're too mean!" and "Why have you drugged their onions?!?", it's not hard to see the appeal to students in this country. That was what drew me to the movie, but what makes it one of my personal favourites is much more than that.

I suppose one thing that could be argued against it is its plot: namely, it's apparent lack of one. To sum up, the film tells the story of two unemployed actors living together in a terrible flat in London and trying to cope with the ongoing boredom with drugs and alcohol. They decide that it would be a good idea to go on holiday in the countryside. It doesn't take them long however before they realise just what a terrible idea it was in the first place. That's basically it, but to me, this is one of those films where a plot really isn't necessary, which I'll explain later on.

One thing that makes the film work (other than the script, of course) are the performances. Richard E. Grant is absolutely brilliant as the alcoholic Withnail, and it's hard to believe it was his first film role (or that he is in fact a teetollar, in real life, as he performs total drunkeness absolutely perfectly). Withnail is many things: arrogant, selfish, deceptive (especially when he needs another drink) and a total coward, but the most surprising thing he is perhaps is loveable, and this is really down to Grant's performance than anything else. His experiences are often seen through the eyes of the unnamed title character as played by Paul McGann, who seems to be a little more sensible than Withnail, as well as occasionally paranoid and, as his narrative throughout the film details, also incredibly bored with his life. Now, while not quite as hysterical as Withnail, McGann does well at making his character seem more relatable and just a little bit more likeable.

But even the supporting cast are worth watching the movie alone for: Richard Griffiths as Withnail's uncle Monty is hysterically mad and more than a little disturbing around McGann's character (oh, and word of warning, Harry Potter fans: once you see this, you may never look at Uncle Vernon in quite the same way again!), but to me my personal favourite is Danny, the hippy drug dealer, played hilariously by Ralph Brown (who I had seen before in another role, but completely didn't recognise because it was completely different, a nice reminder to me to check out more of his stuff). His rather bizarre philosophies and theories on life make him (along with Withnail, who gets a lot more screen time than Danny) one of my favourite characters in comedy history.

Now these things, these all help to make Withnail & I one of my favourite comedy films to watch over and over again, but it's not just the comedy I watch it for. One of the reasons this film is so important to me is because it's one of the best films that captures both the sheer boredom and depression of unemployment that I've ever seen. It's something you want to escape from, to find any and every way possible to not even think about it, whether healthy or not. One perfect example of how beautifully the comedy of the situation is merged with the depressing reality of it is another great quote: "What time is it now?" "Just past eight." "Four hours till opening time...God help us!" It's hilarious, every time I watch it, but it also makes a very true point: when you're unemployed, the most pointless thing in the world is even bothering to get up in the mornings. Even when they go on holiday, it's just a case of moving from one shithole that's practically cut off from civilisation to another. These things put together help to sell the film less as a comedy with an ongoing narrative and more as a funny but believeable snapshot of everyday life.

One final point: the ending. The first time I watched it, it seemed rather sudden and out of the blue. Admittedly, the first time I watched it, I was also fairly drunk, but it took me a second viewing to decide whether I liked it or not. When I did watch it again, I suddenly realised how perfect it was. In such a short time, a major change arrives almost out of nowhere, which doesn't just affect our characters but how we perceive them, as Withnail goes from being hilarious to being pitiful and tragic. His final speech in the park is heartbreaking, and this ending only proves that Withnail & I isn't just a comedy: it is, well and truly, a masterpiece.

I'll be honest: this film may not appeal to everyone. Not only is it a rather bleak film at times, but the comedy has been known to be an acquired taste, with executive producer Denis O'Brien thinking it was so unfunny he almost stopped production entirely. Nevertheless, this is, without a doubt, not just one of the greatest British movies ever made, but one of the greatest films ever made period, and should be viewed by everyone. 10/10

[DoctorDodge]

I'll get around to watching Withnail and I soon. Too tired to do it today after no sleep + babysitting, then I have 5 hours of wrestling plus Walking Dead and Dexter Sunday and Monday so those days are out. I'll probably download it Tuesday and watch it before Friday. I just watched 3 movies back to back to back last night so a little burned out atm.

Still waiting, Mattrick...

[Heather19]

Well I just finished watching Withnail & I. I'm sorry DD, it just wasn't my type of film. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but I didn't find it to be funny at all. And I thought it was extremely slow moving. I had a really tough time getting through the first half of the film, but once they got to the country it did get a little better. The one part that I did find humorous was when the guy showed up in the middle of the night to find the two of them in bed together :lol:

I'll read your review when I get home tonight DD, and hopefully Jean will chime in. I'd really like to understand what draws the two of you to this film so much.

[DoctorDodge]

You have made me most displeased, Heather. :nope:

Honestly, I can understand how it won't be some people's cup of tea, especially with the fact that it barely has any plot (which is kinda part of the appeal, if you read my review you'll see what I mean), but it is a massive shame you didn't enjoy it. The ending is one of the most powerful endings I've watched in film. Richard E. Grant put in one hell of a performance for that final scene, no wait, scratch that - I think his performance is brilliant from start to finish. Anyway, hope my review provides some food for thought for ya on why I love this film so much.

[Jean]

if is fantastically interesting how it all works!

I sure am planning to write a big review, but don't know when (next week, if nothing happens?). I am reposting here my short impression, posted immediately after I watched it:

We Failed to Paint It Black

My friends here already know how hard to please bears are as far as cinema is concerned. And yet again, already the second time - the first being Quadrophenia - Doctor Dodge managed to make me review my top 100, if not top 50, of the best films ever made.

Withnail and I is definitely one of the best films ever, and DD described it perfectly in his review (some posts above in this thread).

It's about the end of The Decade, and although there are films that deal with the 60s in more detailed way, W&I has this unique feeling of youth slipping away, of the good times that have never been really good to begin with - and now, to add insult to injury, are coming to their inevitable end.

I am sitting here crying over the implacability of time, over the simple and obvious, but nontheless cruel fact that what is lost remains lost forever, and there is no carpe diem for us helpless human beings whose golden times turned rust when they were there, and will leave us disconsolate when they are over.

"We are 91 days from the end of this decade and there's going to be a lot of refugees".

I spent two hilarious hours, and I emerged heartbroken.

[DoctorDodge]

I sure am planning to write a big review, but don't know when (next week, if nothing happens?).

You know how eager I'd be to read and discuss a review with you, Jean.

And I just have to say, for the golden W&I moment of the day: the 'home invasion' scene is done absolutely brilliantly. What makes it work so beautifully is the fact that as far as the characters are concerned, the genre their lives seem to most fit at that moment is horror, with all the elements in place: an isolated cottage in the middle of nowhere, meeting a random, scary stranger, possibly 'stalked' as they spot him outside the cottage in the day. Of course, we as the audience know it to be comedy, and so their reactions of total horror that are given to us completely straight is just hysterical.

"He's come...to kill us!"

"Jesus...he's sharpening a fucking knife!"

And then it all climaxes with language that is definitely NOT safe for work:
"MONTY, YOU TERRIBLE CUNT!"

:rofl: And that's just one single scene done absolutely perfectly. God, I love this film!

[Heather19]

Well one thing that is interesting is what different things people can get out of watching films. Unfortunately with this one, I just didn't feel any connection to either the characters or what they were going through. I'm not quite sure if that really relates back to the performances though, it could just be the subject matter, or the type of humor? I'm not quite sure. I wish I saw what you guys did, but oh well, we can't always agree. Don't hate me :couple:

[DoctorDodge]

Well, different tastes and all that. Like East of Eden. I liked it, but I didn't love it, certainly not as much you seemed to, Heather. Although I'm still a little surprised you didn't enjoy Withnail & I at all. The performance Richard E. Grant gave as Withnail is one of my favourite performances put on film. I think where my intense love of the film partly comes from is probably long term unemployment. I don't think there's ever been a better film at showing exactly what life in long term unemployment is like. At the feeling of being trapped and having absolutely nothing to do, wherever you are, wherever you go.

Right, now can someone else watch it and join us in our worship discussion of the film?

[Mattrick]

I promise this next week I'll get it.

[DoctorDodge]

I'm looking forward to your thoughts on it, Mattrick. I'm very, very sure you're gonna enjoy it.

[Jean]

I am no longer sure of anything

[DoctorDodge]

Actually, thinking back on it, that's probably the best way to be, Jean. Still, I'll be interested in Mattrick's reaction on W&I, one way or another.

And slightly off topic, bears, but since you may (or may not, since these things really do take time) be writing up a heavily detailed review of W&I later this week, it has inspired me to start either an analysis or a detailed recommendation of all 4 series of Blackadder, I'm not sure which. Having finished watching the final episode last night (with only the special Back & Forth left to watch), I can't believe how much I'd forgotten how truly brilliant it was. I remember it being good, but not that good! Still shocks me there's so many on this board that only know Atkinson from either Mr Bean or films like Johnny English where generally speaking his roles are "Mr Bean with a twist" types. I'll try and start typing up something later tonight, anyway.

[Jean]

oh great!! bears are waiting, very impatiently!

My maybe all-time favorite bit is

...Guilty! (turns page)
...of nothing but -

[DoctorDodge]

:rofl: That is classic! I think a lot of my favourite George moments are in Goes Forth. Like the following:

"Smithy, you haven't seen any suspicious characters hanging around have you, who might be German spies?"
"Nien!"
"Nine! Well, the cap's got his work cut out, then."

[DoctorDodge]

For those who've watched W&I, this still refuses to be awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3EVuoOo3kA&feature=related
"What are you doing back there?"
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING, PROWLING AROUND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING NIGHT?!?"

[Heather19]

So, is it time for another movie?

[DoctorDodge]

No! We need more discussion (or at least more people actually watching) Withnail & I first! :lol:

[Heather19]

They can still watch! I'm still waiting for Jen to come in here and post her thoughts on East of Eden ;) and for Jean to finally finish it. But we can always start another one.

[Jean]

I must review both East of Eden and W&I. We can start another, but bears are warning: they will post.

[Heather19]

Want to pick a movie for us Jean?

[Ricky]

Actually, I was thinking of a nominating a true cinema classic: Thankskilling. A story of love and deception and the triumph of the human spirit.

:rofl:

[Heather19]

:rofl:

[Jean]

Want to pick a movie for us Jean?
No, I'll go with whatever is nominated. Later on bears might nominate Barton Fink, but not right now.

[DoctorDodge]

Damn, I was hoping you would nominate Quadrophenia on my behalf! :lol: Well, I'll go with whatever's next, anyway. Oh, and one more thing bears:


I must review both East of Eden and W&I. We can start another, but bears are warning: they will post.

I'm holding you to your word on that!

[Jean]

I didn't nominate Quadrophenia because I knew I wouldn't have the time to give a detailed analysis. After {mas, though...

[alkanto]

They can still watch! I'm still waiting for Jen to come in here and post her thoughts on East of Eden ;) and for Jean to finally finish it. But we can always start another one.

I know, I know...I'll get to it! I promise! I've just been really busy....just ask James what was on my plate for this week alone. It was a bit insane.

[DoctorDodge]

*Impatiently waits for a certain mexican to post his review on Withnail & I*

[Darkthoughts]

I love Barton Fink, Jean!

[Jean]

I love Barton Fink, Jean! :rose:

[Mattrick]

I must review both East of Eden and W&I. We can start another, but bears are warning: they will post.

I'm still waiting on Bear's thoughts on Coppola's The Conversation.

[Jean]

I know! Life has suddenly turned a lot of its ugly sides towards bears, and became incredibly hard... I hope for a respite soon

[Mattrick]

Well hopefully that ugly sides fucks off soon. You can take iife's ugly side and give it back to the indians eh?

[Shannon]

I wanna play! Give me a movie to watch! :)

[Darkthoughts]

Can I suggest The Secret In Their Eyes (El secreto de sus ojos). It's an Argentinian film and I absolutely adore it. I'd be interested to see what everyone else thinks.

[Heather19]

Sounds good to me. I've been meaning to watch it for awhile now.

[Jean]

very good! then, the next one after this one is Quadrophenia, right?

[fernandito]

I'm always down for films in Spanish.

I don't think Quadrophenia is on Netflix - if we side with that one, can someone post a good link to it ?

[fernandito]

*Impatiently waits for a certain mexican to post his review on Withnail & I*

Sorry! I've been lagging it, I know! I'll post today, I promise !

[Heather19]

I'd love to get this going again. Is anyone interested? Maybe we could set something up for after the new year?

[Jean]

YES!!! YES!!!!!!!!!!!! http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k291/mishemplushem/Facilitation/poohbear.gif (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/mishemplushem/media/Facilitation/poohbear.gif.html)