BTVSAT - Round 2: 1990s (Bracket 1)

[mae]

That '70s Show
vs.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Previously on BTVSAT:

That '70s Show beat Absolutely Fabulous (73.53%) (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?11520)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer beat Dawson's Creek (82.76%) (http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/showthread.php?11536)

[candy]

buffy:)

[alkanto]

Buffy!

[fernandito]

That 70's Show !

[Erin]

Hello Wisconsin!!!!!!

[turtlex]

Buffy !!!
It's my nomination and it's just an amazing show.

[Iwritecode]

That 70's Show

Dumbass!
-Red

[OchrisO]

I think I have to vote for That 70s Show, even though I would be perfectly happy with either of these progressing.

[DoctorDodge]

You know what? I voted for Buffy, but I think i'm gonna have to agree with you there, Chris. Both are brilliant, I just feel more attached to Buffy because I watched it when it was on. But if That 70s Show beats it....well, I wouldn't have any complaints.

[kluker]

I love Buffy but I vote 70s Show

[John Blaze]

I liked both but Buffy was the much better rounded out show. That 70's show was good, but very one dimensional.

[John Blaze]

I can't believe Buffy is losing. <_<

[turtlex]

What JB said. :cry:

[jhanic]

Buffy.

John

[Mattrick]

Wow, justice is being served in round two. Go 70's show! Red Foreman will put his boot up Buffy's ass.

EDIT - wtf, it only shows one buffy but it says I typed it twice. weird.

[Brice]

buffy :D

[fernandito]

I liked both but Buffy was the much better rounded out show. That 70's show was good, but very one dimensional.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but where can I get some ?

[OchrisO]

I liked both but Buffy was the much better rounded out show. That 70's show was good, but very one dimensional.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but where can I get some ?

I was thinking the same thing, actually. That 70's Show deals with quite a wide range of issues and many of them is a fairly unique way, or at least I think so.

[kluker]

Like I said before I love Buffy but the show was the same thing every episode the only extremely good one was Once more with Feeling.

[Ruthful]

The thing I liked about The '70s Show was how they managed to string out four years for an entire decade with the same actors.

It was like M.A.S.H., only entertaining.

[turtlex]

Like I said before I love Buffy but the show was the same thing every episode the only extremely good one was Once more with Feeling.

Gosh, I couldn't disagree more with the first part of this sentence which says that all Buffy epi's were the same ... and being a HUGE Buffy fan ... if the first part of this sentence were true, then OMWF wouldn't work. It's the huge reveals and wonderful movement of character that make OMWF such a great episode. Yes, it's singing and fun, but there are giant plot points at work through the whole episode.

[pookie]

Buffy can't be beaten for character development and addressing issues of folks young and old alike albeit surrounded by an atypical set of circumstances that are probably a bit more difficult for one to relate. That 70s Show feels comfortable, familiar but lacking the depth and broader scope of Buffy. Buffy deals with issues ranging from the angst of young adult hood to mortality. I have to admit I did not watch Buffy when it was first broadcast because I thought it was just a vampire show. I have since watched it in syndication and realize it is much more...it's a very clever way to present issues we'll all deal with in our lives. Buffy wins. Hands down.

[Mattrick]

Like I said before I love Buffy but the show was the same thing every episode the only extremely good one was Once more with Feeling.

Gosh, I couldn't disagree more with the first part of this sentence which says that all Buffy epi's were the same ... and being a HUGE Buffy fan ... if the first part of this sentence were true, then OMWF wouldn't work. It's the huge reveals and wonderful movement of character that make OMWF such a great episode. Yes, it's singing and fun, but there are giant plot points at work through the whole episode.

I stopped watching Buffy when I was like 13 (in the second season somewhere) because every episode followed a template. The vampires convene, make up a plan, Buffy has high school drama, talks with Gilles in his library, Seth Green says something funny, Vampire attacks OH No VAMPIRE then Buffy wins, Vampires are all sad and angry at Buffy, Angel is mysterious, Alyson Hannigan is all 'wow, everything turned out okay!' and they go back to the high school dance and episode ends. I just couldn't watch it anymore. The awful acting surely didn't help. Best part about Buffy was the theme song. I still watch That 70's Show and while it's forumlaic, it actually entertains me.

[turtlex]

Buffy is anything but formulaic. Maybe the first season, but honestly from there it just grew. It was a commentary on today's society and youth and was about a group of kids in High School. You're commenting on the settings and generalities. You know, LOST took place on an island ... every week, they're on an island, they're fighting, they're trying to get home, etc. It's the same show every week. See? Your analysis doesn't stand up... especially since you stopped watching.

The actual issues and family drama and characters of Buffy were much richer and layered than you're indicating.

Sincerely, if all you got out of Buffy was what you wrote above, you need to take another look. Or try looking with the eyes of someone older than 13.

If for nothing else, the dead on writing and pop culture references in Buffy were out of this world great.

[Mattrick]

Buffy can't be beaten for character development and addressing issues of folks young and old alike albeit surrounded by an atypical set of circumstances that are probably a bit more difficult for one to relate. That 70s Show feels comfortable, familiar but lacking the depth and broader scope of Buffy. Buffy deals with issues ranging from the angst of young adult hood to mortality. I have to admit I did not watch Buffy when it was first broadcast because I thought it was just a vampire show. I have since watched it in syndication and realize it is much more...it's a very clever way to present issues we'll all deal with in our lives. Buffy wins. Hands down.

Buffy can't be beaten for Character development? :rofl:

[turtlex]

Maybe if you'd seen more episodes, you'd see the point she's making, Mattrick.

Buffy had great character development... most notably following ( episode ) The Body... but before then as well. Hell, when Angel left !

I can keep listing episodes if you'd like.

That 70s Show? Lots of character development there, hunh? :rolleyes:

[mae]

Wow... such a tight race here! Hope we don't end up with a tie again.

[Iwritecode]

That 70's Show made me laugh. So that's what I voted for. :shrug:

[fernandito]

I tried watching a few episodes of Buffy, and honestly the over the top, soap opera-melodrama delivery of the lines put me off. *shrug*

That 70's Show is not going to garner fans looking for a serious human drama, but like Chris pointed out, it deals with a wide array of issues in a screwball-comedy type way that made it extremely entertaining to watch. Every episode had it's own 'theme' and some of the unconventional methods they chose to convey certain emotions were nothing short of genius.

[DoctorDodge]

Buffy is anything but formulaic. Maybe the first season, but honestly from there it just grew. It was a commentary on today's society and youth and was about a group of kids in High School. You're commenting on the settings and generalities. You know, LOST took place on an island ... every week, they're on an island, they're fighting, they're trying to get home, etc. It's the same show every week. See? Your analysis doesn't stand up... especially since you stopped watching.

Pam, you just listed the reason why I did not want to bother watching a single episode of Lost for five years. The story of a bunch of plane crash survivors on an island, not only did i think that had been done before, I was also incredibly skeptical when I heard it was planned to be over a hundred episodes. An idea like that, sure, it could've been great as a mini-series, but a hundred eps??? Then I watched the show (mainly because it seemed to be the most loved show on this board) and realised how good the quality of the writing was. Yes, it did follow a formula, but a good one, and one that allowed plenty of great character stories.

I think what's key to every show is that there's always a formula in there somewhere, it's just that with the ones we hate we like to point out whilst the ones we enjoy we prefer to ignore (and yep, that includes my favourite shows, too). As a tv series, I feel that Buffy was a seriously stonking good one, and one I definitely need to get on dvd. Is it in my top 5 favourite shows ever? Hmm, possibly not, unless you ignore the British and Japanese selections in that top 5, but it is a classic.

[John Blaze]

I tried watching a few episodes of Buffy, and honestly the over the top, soap opera-melodrama delivery of the lines put me off. *shrug*

That 70's Show is not going to garner fans looking for a serious human drama, but like Chris pointed out, it deals with a wide array of issues in a screwball-comedy type way that made it extremely entertaining to watch. Every episode had it's own 'theme' and some of the unconventional methods they chose to convey certain emotions were nothing short of genius.
Change the lead in of that sentence to Buffy and it'll still make sense. BTW, You can't judge it if you never watched it. I've watched both, I love both, but seriously, Buffy is a much superior show.

[fernandito]

You didn't read the part in my post where I said I tried watching it but I couldn't, did you ? It made me physically ill to watch it. My stomach hurt. :P

[Erin]

It took all I had to get through season 1 of Buffy. I thought it was terrible. I've had 9 million people tell me it gets better after the 1st season and I plan on watching the rest eventually, but every time I think about getting the DVD's I'm all "Ugggggg".

[fernandito]

It took all I had to get through season 1 of Buffy. I thought it was terrible. I've had 9 million people tell me it gets better after the 1st season and I plan on watching the rest eventually, but every time I think about getting the DVD's I'm all "Ugggggg".

I :wub: you.

[Erin]

I think it was that "There is a monster in the Internet" episode that did me in. :lol:

[Darkthoughts]

I loved season one of Buffy for it's cheesiness, I thought Joss Wheedon was paying hommage to the camp style of the movie whilst gradually taking it in a different direction. If you do continue to watch you notice that the eps start to veer away from "Eek! A monster!" to real issues within unrealistic situations, it's very clever and very, very entertaining. I was a die hard Buffy fan and I don't regret a moment spent watching the show. I think it would be a travesty for it to be beaten by anything that starred Ashton Kutcher :lol:

[OchrisO]

I loved season one of Buffy for it's cheesiness, I thought Joss Wheedon was paying hommage to the camp style of the movie whilst gradually taking it in a different direction. If you do continue to watch you notice that the eps start to veer away from "Eek! A monster!" to real issues within unrealistic situations, it's very clever and very, very entertaining. I was a die hard Buffy fan and I don't regret a moment spent watching the show. I think it would be a travesty for it to be beaten by anything that starred Ashton Kutcher :lol:

That show starred Laura Prepon. Everyone else is just dust in the wind. :P

[John Blaze]

...I'm starting to detect a pattern here, Chris..... :P

[mae]

The poll closes tomorrow, so get your vote in if you haven't already.

[OchrisO]

...I'm starting to detect a pattern here, Chris..... :P

I have no idea what you are talking about. :)

[mae]

That '70s Show is moving on to the Quarterfinals, having received 18 votes (52.94%). Its score is now 126.47.

[fernandito]

YES.

[Bethany]

That '70s Show is moving on to the Quarterfinals, having received 18 votes (52.94%). Its score is now 126.47.

Makes me want to stalk off and never come back.

[Merlin1958]

Buffy!!!

She can "Slay" me anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL LOL LOL

:evil:

[John Blaze]

....................... fuck you guys.

[Mattrick]

Maybe if you'd seen more episodes, you'd see the point she's making, Mattrick.

Buffy had great character development... most notably following ( episode ) The Body... but before then as well. Hell, when Angel left !

I can keep listing episodes if you'd like.

That 70s Show? Lots of character development there, hunh? :rolleyes:

I saw her point but I'm sorry, character development on Buffy does not even come close to equate to character development in a show like In Treatment or Six Feet Under. These shows do NOTHING but deal with a wide variety of everyday, everyman problems that everyone can relate to in a mature and artistic fashion.

And someone's mentioned The Body to me before, buffy is all sad and stuff, boohoo. Sarah Michelle Gellar does not and I repeat DOES NOT have near enough acting talent to give any character any depth. Her idea of nuance is talking out the corner of her mouth half the time. Good job. Only character who was any good was Gilles and he read too much and kicked not nearly enough ass. I heard his Sunnydale Rampage episode where he kills Vampires for sport and drinks their blood to get a euphoric response, to the point he starts beating up students until Buffy et all have an invention and at the end they all attend the last school school dance of the year while vampires brood underground was pulled because they would scare off their fanbase with pure and unabashed awesomeness.


People can say 'well by the third season it's actually good!' but it doesn't change the fact it took the show that long to get interesting. I'm sorry, if the first season of a show doesn't grip me, why should I continue?


I think what's key to every show is that there's always a formula in there somewhere, it's just that with the ones we hate we like to point out whilst the ones we enjoy we prefer to ignore (and yep, that includes my favourite shows, too).

Au contraire, as a pro wrestling fan I've come to love formulas. Sometimes most of the charm from a show comes from what you can expect. A show like 24 did this perfectly. Each season had it's staple moments; the guy with the information gets assassinated right before he can say anything, there is a dirty agent, jack goes dark and against CTU, not to mention to trademark cliffhanger endings. But what's in between these formulaic moments there needs to be something worthwhile and completely variable. Even Lost was the same way, very structured shows but then again, all network shows are structured and formulaic because they have to leave little cliffhangers before commercials. HBO/Shotime shows don't need to do that and thus, they are very unformulaic. Six Feet Under has a death at the beginning of every episode and the ensuing funeral, but nothing else is formulaic, the characters grow and react organically, no two episodes are the same.

Buffy was a teenage melodrama that got really popular because well, most teenagers watch garbage anyways. Because it's made for teenagers there is much behind it and I'm sure any issues it dealt with were not cryptically delivered, but hand fed to it's adolescent audience. If Buffy wasn't a 'drama' but instead a comedy, I would judge it more leniantly. Dramas need good acting, great writing, good producers/directors and logical and enthralling plotlines that are generally relatable. It's like they tried hard to make Buffy a layered and somewhat dark character with moral qualms but it all fell flat due to Gellar's subpar abilities. She ends up looking unbelievably strong, of average intelligence with caring friends and family whose dark side can only stem from her fighting vampires, which is done is almost a slapstick fashion where she's too busy being charming/jocular to take either the Vampires or her darkside seriously.

This show couldn't even keep me watching when I was twelve. I'm okay with people liking it but I grow tired of people making it out to be some seminal show. All Buffy did was bring back the teenage melodrama (since Melrose/90210 were fizzling) and brought a whole new wave of Dawson's Creeks upon us. There are dozens of better quality shows out there. But you like what you like, we wrestling fans learn that quick as our passion for it gets us some ridicule. But as I know it's not quality entertainment...that's why I like it. It's a break from quality entertainment to see some absurdity where I spend most of my time making fun of it lol.

[turtlex]

I can't believe this.

Completely what JB said ! :couple: Completely.

Mattrick - Dude, we're never going to agree. ( and you were snipey to pookie, even if you were trying to be funny ). I guess you'd need to see more than a handful of episodes of Buffy to compare the character growth and story progression through-out the series. You obviously didn't see it at all. Your loss, my friend.

You see what you see, and I see what I see ... and time will prove the rest.

If all you got out of The Body was "buffy is all sad and stuff, boohoo" then I actually feel bad for you. I'm not going to rip apart your favorite shows, but in years to come, when people are still saying "What was In Treatment" ... Buffy will remain iconic and a part of the meme.

[pathoftheturtle]

...in years to come, when people are still saying "What was In Treatment" ... Buffy will remain iconic and a part of the meme.You're probably right. And I think that's depressing.

Only thing more depressing is that pro wrestling will still be around, too.

[kluker]

I just had a Buffy marathon the other month but I have to agree with Mattrick on the show.

It was the same thing all the time and way to much drama with her hating being a slayer and she has to be alone crap.
I love Buffy I will keep watching it just for Sarah(not her acting but cause she is hot), Giles and Spike cause frankly if they have a british accent i'm sold on them.

[turtlex]

Only thing more depressing is that pro wrestling will still be around, too.

This is soooo WIN !!!

:D


I just had a Buffy marathon the other month but I have to agree with Mattrick on the show.

It was the same thing all the time and way to much drama with her hating being a slayer and she has to be alone crap.
I love Buffy I will keep watching it just for Sarah(not her acting but cause she is hot), Giles and Spike cause frankly if they have a british accent i'm sold on them.

It sort of sounds like your marathon started in the middle of the series.

[kluker]

Nope but Giles was in it from the begining he wad he reason I wanted to watch it Anthony is a amazing Actor and Singer